Fox to Cleveland Heats up...Again
by ERL on Mar 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT
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Saw an interesting/funny story about Fox following his buddy Jake Delhomme to Cleveland next offseason:
Feeling Fox-y in Cleveland
"An interesting house-cleaning is going on in Cleveland. There was a line change at the QB position with Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson replaced by Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace. Veteran center Hank Fraley was tossed onto the free agent scrap heap, and Kamerion Wimbley was traded for a third-round pick. All of this makes us wonder whether Eric Mangini is still running the show.
Such was the topic of the tail end of Michael Lombardi's column on National Football Post on Monday morning, and Lombardi speculates that all of this -- especially the Delhomme signing -- could be the precursor to John Fox being named the head coach of the Browns in the future. Back when the Mangenius was reportedly on the hot seat, Fox's name was mentioned as a potential replacement, and his defense-oriented pedigree would be a good match for a team whose offense is taking shape in the Holmgren mold.
We don't see this happening prior to the 2010 season, but it's certainly something to keep an eye on for 2011, given the fact that Fox's deal will have expired at that point. Here's ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter's take:"
Adam Schefter:
"Think about this: Panthers coach John Fox is a huge Delhomme supporter. Browns general manager Tom Heckert is an equally big supporter of Fox. Fox's contract is up after this season. Agent Bob Lamonte represents Heckert, Fox and Browns president Mike Holmgren. Cleveland gave Delhomme a two-year deal, long enough to carry him over until the time when Fox will become free. I'm not saying, I'm just saying ..."
So, instead of the Peppers circus, it looks like we will be blessed with Fox to Cleveland rumors next February!
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If we’re in a position where Fox isn’t the coach anymore I’m sure we’ll have more than enough to talk about in Carolina with a top 10 draft pick and Bill Cowher on the way.
Watch us go 6-0 to start the year and sign him to a 5 year extension.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
i hope
i love Fox, I don’t see organizations that fire coaches just to fire a coach doing well. It’s the coaches who have long tenures that tend to do well…I’m just saying, I think letting Fox go would be a huge mistake.
by SouthernPanther on Mar 15, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't have the talent on the roster to go 6-0 at the moment.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 15, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That s what everyone thought about Denver last season
Of course that did not end as well as it started for the Broncos.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Superior talent wins out.
Teams can’t smokescreen their way to a Super Bowl with castoffs/first- and second-year players.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 15, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless Steve Smith is catching those smoke screens--couldn't help it.
Yeah, once folks figured Denver out, that was it.
I am not ready to give up on the season, call it blind homerism or what not. Aside from Peppers and Hoover, I’m not sure our recent roster moves have created, for me lowered expectations.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Denver got by on luck and killer defense to start the year
Their offense wasn’t explosive. It was either a five or six yard dunk to a WR, or a 3-5 yard run by Moreno. They had no big play threat. And once age and injuries caught up to the defense, they wilted down the stretch. I seriously doubt we start 6-0, but to say we don’t have the talent to do so is absurd.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 16, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
i've got a feeling
that this season will be a special one for fiammetta, jarrett, brown, moore, and connor
And Wallace and Hudson and Irvin and...
We can’t just go off predicting Pro Bowl years for guys who haven’t shown any kind of sustained success.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
We don't need Pro-Bowl years from everyone on the roster.
4 pro-bowlers produced a 12-4 season in 2008.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Everyone has to start somewhere.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 17, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The ones with the best shot are Moore and Brown
The organization is putting a lot of faith into both of them. They can either sieze the moment and become the next great things at their positions, be just average, or fail and fade into obscurity.
Moore has shown me enough in his 5 games that I can reasonably hope that he will be a productive quarterback in the NFL. Maybe never a pro-bowler, but the kind of efficient QB we need.
Brown has shown he can get to the QB and be disruptive in the backfield in general, and im anxious to see what he can do with an increased workload.
An increased workload for Brown is all well and good...
but he’s not ready to be a three-down player based on his play and body type of last year. Even as a weakside end, he won’t hold up against the run.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
and it doesn’t help that the tackles next to him are relatively unproven as well.
But I’m thinking that a player in the mold of Tyler Brayton will be added, so that Brown can come in fresh in passing situations and beast out.
Do or do not. There is no try.
One hopes...
But they haven’t shown any interest in bringing Brayton back so far. As badly as he implied wanted to play here, I doubt he was looking to break the bank.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And that is...
Because you are a master among scouts and a player can’t excel without your approval.
So, we are doomed next year because the legend that is the Great Procton chose not to shine his light of success upon us.
“Mommy, where do All-Pro’s come from?” – “The stork brings them, hunny.”
Oh, Mr. Stork, why have you forsaken us? Damn you, Mr. Stork, damn you. May the Great Procton strike down Mr. Stork for his blasphemy.
Randomosity done.
On a serious note, I’d disagree. I see nothing that suggests our players cannot step up and take us 6-0. We’re acting like players don’t progress and break-out years are banned until a new CBA is finished.
Eight of them don't progress and break out at once.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Do we require all eight to bloom at once to have a successful season?
It seems we’re expecting to field a “perfect” team every year but such just doesn’t happen.
Come on D-Ranged
Cut MP a break…he’s trying to behave. No need to goad him.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Good grief. Not again with this crap.
John Fox is not leaving this year.
He’s close, but he’s not leaving.
Here’s what will happen. The Panthers need to get back into the playoffs. If John Fox takes us there, chances are he gets a long-term extension and he stays. If he doesn’t take us to the playoffs, he’s gone. No question.
That’s it. Period. I’m done hearing otherwise.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
And what if he refuses an extension?
I’m sure he’s tired of being jerked around given he’s been one of the best coaches in the league since his arrival. If Holmgren believes in him, why not go somewhere that he’s wanted and supported and can take on a new challenge?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 15, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks to be moving in that direction
But I have to believe that it will ultimately depend on what happens in 2010. If he wins 9-10 games I’d lean towards Fox being offered an extension (assuming he would accept). If not, Cleveland might very well be his next stop.
Which brings us to an interesting dynamic: If these recent moves have been the decisions of JR and Hurney, are they setting him up for fewer wins? It would seem like that would be too obvious, and Fox might have already jumped ship. Are they trying to entice him to leave to escape his 6.5M contract? These are quite possibly paranoid delusions, but the NFL is an icky business.
Finally, to reinforce my confidence in this team, if Fox did not believe that he could win with what we have, would he have already peaced-out? Perhaps he knows his fate is sealed, and he will be moving on next offseason, and is choosing to remain a professional. Or perhaps he does have confidence.
Advanced apologies for this rambling/comment.
Do or do not. There is no try.
No way he leaves at this point.
Frankly, I doubt they’d let him. Who would they replace him with at this point? As for “believing he could win with what we have,” he might have believed that about two weeks ago. Unfortunately, that’s a far different team than he’s working with now.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Far different, but is it necessarily worse?
We lost Muhammad on offense (likely), and his blocking will be missed, but Jarret is a solid blocker, and I believe he offers more as a pass catcher. We lost Vincent, but we have the universally regarded top guard in the draft class from last year and a seventh rounder who starting six or seven games. I’d say we ca nreplace that production. Brayton and Peppers are gone, and Peppers will be missed. But we all have loved what we have seen out of Brown, and many of us were calling for Johnson to start over Brayton. Who’s to say those two can’t replace the two that have left. Brayton might even return. At DT, Kemo was big and Lewis was solid, and we do have some uncertainty at DT. But both of them were over 30, and their replacements looked good in limited action. Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Johnson all look capable of replacing Ma’ake and Kemo, and the upside is definitely there. At linebacker, Johnson was overpaid and Diggs was a marginal starter. Anderson/Connor can easily match their production given what we saw last season, and I have faith they can exceed it. Compare this years roster to the Super Bowl roster, and you’ll see we have more talent in certain areas, less in others, but there is one common denominator. Desire. Both teams were young and hungry and out to prove something. Heck I think even Peppers cared at that point. Before the year started, no one would have guessed we’d start the year 5-0, beating the undefeated Colts in the process, and losing on a last second field goal to the dynasty of the decade team. This year, we are under the radar, just the way Foxy likes it. Fox has historically done a good job of preparing us when we are underdogs or backed against a wall. A cornered Panther is the most dangerous Panther, and we will have 53 cornered Panthers ready to go come September.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 16, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So I guess we're just convinced, then, that every player on the roster is going to meet or exceed expectations?
As Delhomme showed last year and Peppers showed in ‘07, that’s not going to happen, even to the guys who are proven and trusted.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
If "expectations" are to be competitive
I don’t see why that is so unreasonable. Its not as if we cut Beason, didn’t tender Davis or Marshall, cut Double Trouble, cut Gamble and Harris, cut Kalil, Gross, Otah, and Wharton.
Don’t be too quick to jump ship just because we cut JD, Micheal. It sounds like losing him is really what has caused you to loose confidence. In reality, we didn’t start playing well until he was out of the lineup.
Point to any of our cuts or FAs that are leaving, and explain to me why losing them will absolutely prevent us from being competitive.
Lets not forget that we still have the draft, and the second part of free-agency—after the draft, to sew up some of the holes in our roster.
Do or do not. There is no try.
It's not just Delhomme.
It’s Hoover, it’s Lewis, it’s Kemoeatu, it’s letting Muhammad and Vincent go with no established replacements for them. It’s having no DE on the roster who’s ever started more than a handful of games. It’s about having exactly two seasons as starters from our whole DT corps. It’s about having nothing in our receiving corps to inspire any confidence beyond Smith; further, that’s a position where draftees rarely produce right off the bat, and all the reasonably considerable impact players at the position who were FAs have already been signed. Further, our LB depth is now nonexistent. We went from having four reasonable starters to two and two wing-and-a-prayer types in Anderson and Connor, one of whom might pan out to be average. And I don’t see how those needs will be filled without a first-rounder and an obvious philosophy to save money rather than compete for top players in FA.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
When we released Ken Lucas last season I wouldn’t have considered Richard Marshall as an ‘established replacement’ however the secondary were better as a unit with Marshall at #2 than Lucas, where they improved from 16th to 4th in the NFL against the pass.
None of us know what will happen with any certainty, but Lewis wasn’t exactly stuffing runs on a regular basis, and there’s still no evidence Kemo can return to prior form. We can only hope that Ed Johnson, Louis Leonard, Tank Tyler etc. can step and perform greater than their perceived potential just like Richard Marshall did last season.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James Dator on Mar 16, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
I’m with you Aussie on this one, Marshall proved to be a much better covarage back, and his ability to “blanket” recievers at his age will only improve. Lucas was a different style of back, excelling in Zone schemes, and the ability to recongnize the run early, then pull up and deliver a big hit, but was never good enough to be left on an island with some of the faster recievers. Just a question, does anybody here miss Ricky Manning Jr?
by Travis Canter on Mar 16, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends what you mean.
I certainly miss his play from 2003, but if you look at his performance after he left for Chicago, he wasn’t worth the contract he got, and the pick we got for him turned into James Anderson, who’s been a good solider in his time here.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have.
Marshall was going into his fourth year, and had shown the ability to be an above-average corner, both as a nickel and in 14 starts for the Panthers when Gamble and Lucas were injured. Further, a statistical improvement against the pass is no surprise at all. We went from a 12-4 team that was in the lead at the end of most of our games with the other team trying to catch up to an 8-8 team that trailed and saw the other team rushing the ball and trying to run out the clock.
I’m not sure what Lewis could have done better for you as a run stuffer. He led the team with 4 rushing TFLs, ahead of Peppers, Hollis Thomas, and all the rest of our DLs. And Johnson, Leonard, and Tyler have combined to start exactly one game for the Panthers and have been on the roster for less than a year combined, far less than what Marshall had done for us.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
understandably you are concerned, as am I
(and you knew a ‘but’ was coming) But, my concern is not as much about replacing productivity on the field, but more so replacing leadership in the lockeroom.
With everyone listed above, I don’t see anyone who had a pro-bowl type impact on our team in 2009, aside from possibly Hoover, had he not missed 5 games.
What I don’t see right now, and granted I’m not in the lockeroom everyday, is the veteran leadership and stability. This, or the lack thereof, is what has me concerned. But it happens all the time, maybe not all at once, granted, but new leaders emerge. Gross, Moore, Beason, Harris—guys like this will have to step up and show some of the new role players how to work. It’ll be different but I truly believe, even before the draft, that we have enough talent and leadership to compete.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Beason is the general of that entire defense
I’m not worried about him leading the front 7. Also, I think the “Hitman” is setting a fine example of leadership in the secondary.
I am worried about leadership on offense however, in the form of the team putting all their faith in Matt Moore.
Smith-#89
He’s proven this past season that he’s stepped up to be a leader and I know he will do more this coming season :)
Making a Pro Bowl is not the only benchmark for a decent season.
If that were true, there’d be no difference between the ability and contribution of any players who don’t make it. None of our safeties have made the Pro Bowl lately, but I’d say Chris Harris and Martin/Godfrey are a much better tandem than, say, Colin Branch and Deke Cooper.
I understand role players needing to step up. But the problem is that they’re now going to be asked to play not in roles, but in the starting lineup.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your skepticism MP
I feel like we made to many cuts. We made some necessary ones, but we also made some questionable calls.
I’ll never figure out the decisions in the LB corps, or the decision on Brad Hoover… and no doubt if we see problems next season related to depth or poor play at either spot, the organization will look like goats.
But, we have to believe that the organization has taken a really good look at these guys that will now carry the torch, and that they will play well enough, if not very well.
We don't "have" to believe that at all.
I’m choosing to believe that they’re punting this season, saving their money, and hoping to compete whenever a new CBA is established. Unfortunately, they’re leaving it to the fans to suffer with a bunch of kids and castoffs between now and then.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 16, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes you think we'll suffer?
A bunch of these guys were starting at the end of the year when we killed two teams who still had something to play for. I think we can still be competitive, and we are set for anything past 2011.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 17, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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