Panthers QB Matt Moore the Safer Bet to Start
by Jaxon on Feb 7, 2010 12:04 PM EST
103 comments
Panthers QB Matt Moore returned to his roots this week as he and his wife attended a number of events at Oregon St. In a very nice piece Kerry Eggers of the Portland Tribune gets an explanation from Moore:
"Third year in a row I've come up," says Moore, the ex-OSU quarterback now with the Carolina Panthers. "I get to see all my favorite people - everybody up here is so great.
"I love going to the (recruiting) dinner. I'm proud to be a representative of this university and this football program. I like to show that."
Moore is soon going to be an even more popular guy when he wins the Panthers starting QB job. Actually I think it's the smartest move John Fox could make with the QB position and here is why...
Even if Moore doesn't distinguish himself during training or the preseason then Fox still wouldn't be faulted for starting the guy based on the 2009 tape and stats. Only the most diehard Delhomme could discount his 2009 performance:
As the starter the last five games, Moore completed 79 of 126 passes (62.7 percent) for 990 yards and eight touchdowns with one interception. Extended over a full season, his quarterback rating (98.5) would have ranked fifth in the NFL, behind Kurt Warner, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning and just ahead of Brett Favre.
So nobody could really blame him for benching Jake Delhomme no matter how well he plays in TC when considering Moore's 2009 performance. If Moore's TC and/or preseason performance leaves management skeptical keep Moore on a short leash; if he struggles early give Delhomme a series or two and that long-desired chance at redemption. Think this might be too much of a head game test for both? They've handled it brilliantly so far:
"And Jake in turn, once Matt was playing, went to great lengths to be supportive. The way they treated one another and respected one another was the textbook way to do it. In that regard, they both scored A-pluses."
If you don't think decisions should be made on statistics then how about the intangible evidence, the fact the entire team rallied around the kid:
"Our offensive coordinator, Jeff Davidson, is outstanding, and the offensive line and receivers did a great job. We do a lot of things similar to what we did at Oregon State - things on the move, third down out of the pocket - which make it tough on the defense. The whole team rallied around, and it was a great way to end the season."
‘Things on the move'. Can't say that about Delhomme. Moore also offers a propensity for protecting the ball, something that can't be said about the recent performance of Delhomme. So has Moore just been lucky at protecting the ball or is this actually his MO? We have to return to his roots in Beaver-town for that answer:
Moore made the most of his opportunity, efficiently running the Carolina offense they way he did as a senior at Oregon State, during which he threw a school-record 183 passes without an interception in one stretch.
So in my view Moore's 8-1 TD to INT ratio is no accident. I bet you could find more than one other team GM who would like a shot at obtaining Moore. Mr. Eggers wraps up the piece nicely with a reference to the immediate future of Moore. The Panthers have a big but certainly easy decision on Moore:
"The Panthers will protect him, put a high tender on him," Chandler says. "They're not going to let him get away. They can't afford to let him get away. They'll make it so nobody can sign him."
Let him go? Of course not, he's going to start in electric blue next season, it's a sure thing.
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Annointed Starter
As much as I want Matt Moore to have to work for his spot because it would make him that much better, I’m afraid if I don’t hear that Moore is the outright starter, Delhomme is gonna be back under center. However, in an interview right after the season ended Moore said he was planning on working harder than he had ever worked in the offseason. I’m very excited about Matt. He could be the next Tony Romo (undrafted QB, to Pro-Bowl caliber QB)
by SouthernPanther on Feb 7, 2010 12:07 PM EST reply actions
Delhomme as the starter would be team suicide
The fans will be ticked, the players might not rally around him, Smitty will be disgruntled after the first INT. Whoever pulls the trigger on that one should be fired on the spot.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
moore or someone else
I think jake cannot be given the starting spot again. if we aren’t sure that moore is the #1 guy, we should draft the best available qb the first chance we get. starting jake again just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Y'all know how I feel!
And in case there’s anybody new here that missed the comparisons I drew…
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2010/1/18/1257164/matt-moore-comparisons
Moore at 26 is just beginning the improvement stage of his QBing cycle — he’s coming off a very effective year, and should only get better. All the guys I compared him to, at identical stages of their careers, were (with the exception of Big Ben) having less success than he — and that includes Brees and the Manning brothers!
And there is NO best available draftee at QB who could come in and match him. Period. In a few years, we’ll look back and gloat over the steal we got from the Cowboys.
I say no... until there's a contract in place.
Right now Moore still isn’t under contract. Until a deal is made then you don’t name him anything.
The Panthers should negotiate with Moore like a QB who’s fighting for the starting job, not like one whose already earned the position- lest we overpay him.
Should he be the starter in 2010? Absolutely… but the Panthers should be mum on the topic until we have him locked up.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 7, 2010 12:57 PM EST reply actions
what do you mean
he’s not under contract? is he an unrestricted FA?
I'm completely speaking out of the air here, and taking a half-witted guess..
But I think he’ll end up a restricted FA with all the weird crap going on… I’m sure someone will be along with a knowledgeable answer soon.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Moore is an 'exclusive rights free agent'
What this means is the Panthers have the right of first refusal if any other team offers him a contract, and if they decide not to match another team’s deal they would need to give the Panthers a 1st and 3rd round draft pick.
So while he’s not an unrestricted free agent, he’s not under contract either.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
But I think a "qualifying" offer is made anyways?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Yes, the Panthers will put him on the top tier of ‘qualifying offer’ to ensure they get the full 1st and 3rd round compensation if they lose him to another team.
The deadline to extend a qualifying offer is Feb 26th.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I believe that if no team makes an offer for him, then the Panthers pay him the “qualifying offer” next season. In essence, it’s kind of like a franchise tag without as many restrictions.
The qualifying offer comes first.
If a team wants Moore they can offer him a deal after that time… all the qualifying does is dictate the level of compensation the Panthers would recieve if another team offered him a contract we couldn’t (or wouldn’t) match.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
You sure? I understand it like Scrantsj.
The “qualifying offer” says that if no other team makes a move on Moore, then the Panthers have to pay him a specified amount. I think it’s like his current salary + a percent.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
taken from theredzone.org
RFA: A player whose contract has expired and has fewer than four tenured years in the league. He may sign an “Offer Sheet” with any other team, but his original team has seven days to match any offer he receives. If the original team does not match the offer, compensation will be awarded in the form of draft picks from the signing team. The round and quantity of picks are determined by the “Qualifying Offer” made by the player’s original team. If a RFA is tendered a minimum qualifying offer the compensation is the equivalent of the round in which that player was originally selected. If that player was originally a rookie free agent, no compensation is awarded.
The Panthers have until Feb 26th to sign Moore to a ‘qualifying offer’ which will dictate his value should a team tender an offer sheet to him.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
If no team signs Moore to an offer sheet then he is paid the amount of the qualifying offer.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Ah. That makes sense.
One side note on that quote you had. That is the RFA rules under a CBA. If no CBA is signed then it changes to players with fewer than 6 years in the league. I think everything else is the same.
The thing that caught my attention the most.....
was Moore’s reference to Davidson as “outstanding” and how they did “things on the move.” I was really sour on Davidson early in the season, but in retrospect i really think his hands were tied with Jake’s turnovers. Once Moore came in, and won Davidson’s confidence it seemed he tweeked the passing scheme, added more roll outs and moved the pocket…and all of a sudden everything starts clicking and Davidson’s play calling doesn’t look as bad in the final leg of the season. Man am I stoked for next season.
I really want this offense to remain intact and hit camp in full stride right where we left off this season.
lets just hope our defense
doesnt fall apart
by carolinabrave89 on Feb 7, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I was wondering who would be the first to latch onto that...
I found it curious as well. Was Moore just towing the party line or was he being honest? I imagine we won’t really know at this point.
I will say when players don’t execute its easy to blame the guy calling the plays. My gripe about Davidson at this point is that early in the season he seemed unable to fool the defense very often. Seemed quite the opposite later in the season. Did the QB make the OC or the other way around? A question for the football ages…
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Finally somebody else said it!
Earlier in the season, I brought up the possibility that Davidson might just look bad due to Jake’s debacle… But got ripped a new one for saying it! I’m not saying Davidson is any kind of genius… Just saying considering Jake’s performance, he can’t be nearly as bad as the first 2/3 of the season were.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If it were truly all on Delhomme, Davidson shouldn’t have had him throwing 30-40 times a game. Before I start sounding like MP, Delhomme is truly done with this franchise unless something miraculous happens (or Fox stays stubborn).
It just seemed like he toned back the gameplan in favor of the run with Moore as opposed to with Delhomme. To me, it kind of seemed Davidson panicked way too fast sometimes when they got behind and thought they needed to throw all over to keep up, which just made things worse. With Moore, they were never really behind much, so they could stick more with running it down their throats.
Davidson seemed better towards the end of the season, but I’m still not really sold on him. It will be interesting to see how both Davidson and Moore respond next season in coming from behind, whether they’ll stay calm and collected, or panic.
I can forgive throwing too much
Because I don’t think you can win without a QB in this league anyways… even with our running game. Also when you are playing from behind and need points fast, it defies logic to only run the ball.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think having Jake throw 30-40 times was the problem
Giving Jake the opportunity meant that we had limit double trouble’s carries. That was my biggest problem this season.
It depends when we are behind and how far we’re behind. Many times, we gave up on the run too early, when our passing game was the reason why we were behind in the first place. Teams obviously anticipated the pass early on as our scoring gap increased.
Davidson did a poor job early in the season giving Jake more opportunity to add more turnovers to his resume in my opinion. Panthers aren’t meant for coming from behind and what we needed to do was to establish our running game early and commit to the running game. Davidson’s job was to stick to what we do best, but he tried to make Jake look like Derek Anderson. Just saying
So then it's ok to have a QB who can't throw?
OC’s should be able to figure out how to win with a one dimensional offense? I don’t get it.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think he's trying to make this point.
In the end, it’s better to hand the ball to someone that can run it instead of giving it to a QB who will hand the ball off to the other team. Mostly, when we were playing from behind this season it was because Jake Delhomme had committed his turnovers and given the ball up in our own territory. With the defense we have, we have a chance of beating anyone in this league with our running game.
In the end, Jake Delhomme shouldn’t have even been on the field for so long this year. He wasn’t even a top 32 QB.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I'd say he was better than 32, but that's not the point
As an OC, you have to be able to recognize your teams strength’s and weakness’s. You then play to your strength’s. If you have a QB who plays well with 20-25 attempts a game, then give him that. If he struggles with anything above 30, avoid that. You maximize your strengths and minimize your weakness’s, Davidson didn’t do that for the first half of the year.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 9, 2010 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
Even 20 throws is too much when your QB leads the league in TOs
This is a QB league now… just look at the Superbowl. The 2 best QBs in the league. And the more balanced team won.
Again, I don’t think Davidson is that great… He’s serviceable. But my point is no matter what he should have done in “hindsight” we weren’t going to win with Jake playing the way he was.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I agree
but maybe a few more wins may have been scraped out had Davidson not abandoned the run game. Games where D-will got less than fifteen carries, like Miami and Dallas, are particularily egregious examples.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 10, 2010 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Davidson did call much better games later in the season.
But he still is mediocre. He’s one of the guys who the players will make him look better than he is. With a team of our talent, that’s fine, plus it’s less money we have to spend on the staff.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 8, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
It should be called a "Competition"
but acknowledge Moore has the upper hand against whoever the competition is and really it should be a competition in name only, Moore should be the starter barring injury.
"Competition" would be a misnomer
That would assume he has somebody to compete against…. which he doesn’t on the current roster.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I may be alone
But I don’t think you can discount Delhomme just yet. Competition is the right word to use, if Moore is as good as advertised he should have no problem with Delhomme.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 8, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Then why didn't Moore get to start last year earlier?
I don’t know that we can trust Fox to fairly judge a pre-season QB competition. He obviously botched that job last season!!!
Why would Fox have wised up between now and then? Answer: the 2009 season, in which Delhomme sucked donkey balls and Moore excelled. So why not just use the 2009 season as the criteria for starting Moore ? Why operate under the pretense of an open competition?
I fear Fox will do the wrong thing again to start the 2010 season: NOT start Matt Moore. And if he does make that same mistake, Richardson should immediately fire him.
The 0-4 preseason was a precursor to the terrible start to the season
Let’s see if the Panthers play better in the preseason this year
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
FYI, Moore played worse than Delhomme last preseason.
And Delhomme’s job was never in question, Arizona was an aberration, it only became a trend after Philly. Fox can evaluate talent, our last two starting QB’s have been UDFA. If Moore is truly ready for the job, he will work his butt of in practice, comprehensively beat out Delhomme for the job, and make Fox loyal to him. Fox’s loyalty is earned, and it’s a great thing to earn. If Moore gets that, he’ll be successful.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 9, 2010 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
Ok so, maybe you call it a "competition" to keep Moore on his toes
But regardless of pre-season performance, you can’t start Jake or a rookie over Moore. One’s too unproven, the others too much risk. The only real competition will be if they bring in a FA… which means if Moore is the #2, Jake would be out.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
People shouldn't be surprised that there will be a QB competition
Fox is old school and he’s going to follow the ‘you don’t lose your job due to injury’ methodology.
All Moore’s performance has done is guaranteed him a shot to compete for the starting spot, nothing more, nothing less.
We as fans may not like it, but fans don’t get what they like very often.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Jake's not losing his job "due to injury" :)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
He didn't?
Moore got the start because Jake broke his thumb.
I choose not to get involved with any conspiracy theories regarding Delhomme’s thumb. The Panthers don’t have a history of flubbing injury reports.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
index finger… my bad
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
No, I'm saying Jake not starting has nothing to do with his injury
If Jake doesn’t start in 2011, it will be 100% because of his performance in 2010 and the end of 2009. The injury was just pure convenience.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
His performance was certaintly enough to bench him, no doubt.
However, it was the injury that benched him. Sherrod Martin outplayed Charles Godfrey at FS, but Fox went back to Godfrey when he was healthy.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well when he does make a change
It’s usually in the off season.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I agree with you
But more so regarding him making a change in the middle of the season
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If the Panthers do not want to lose a lot of fans...
They better not start Jake Delhomme at QB. In my realm of Panther fan-dom, i have already started hearing, “If they start Delhomme after last season then i’m pulling for the Skins again!”
I will be a a panthers fan no matter what, but i will officially advocate the firing of Fox if Delhomme really gets a chance to compete for the starting job. Lip service loyalty to an aging vet, is one thing. But i 100% believe that if not for Delhomme (and Fox’s stubbornness for not pulling him after week 3), then the Panthers would have one the Super Bowl last night.
Yeah but Panther fans are fickle
If they come out and win few games, people will jump back on the bandwagon. However if they come out with Jake, and he immediately looks like the beginning of 2010!… then I could totally see a fan boycott.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'd say if you are fickle you're not a fan of a team
My personal belief is to let the people who know a hell of a lot more about football than me do their jobs.
If fans want to boycott the team over something like that it just shows they’re not really fans in my eyes. Case in point, the Saints. I would no matter what, under no circumstances ever wear a paper bag over my head to a game just to prove a point.
So let the people say they’ll ‘Pull for the Skins again’ because I think those people were ready to pull that stunt when Shanahan was hired.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Being fickle doesn’t mean you’re not a fan of your team. You, James, may let the coaches and gms do their jobs, but being a coach or a gm does not mean that they are doing what’s best for the organization. See the Raiders or the Skins for example. Some coaches or gms let their personal preferences get in the way of winning games (again Raiders, Lions, John Fox too if you’d like).
If you’re a hardcore fan, you will not let some fat man ruin the entire organization and make your Super Bowl contenders look like Detroit Lions. You will not let some old fart ruin the organization you grew up watching. You will not let some group of so called “professionals” take your hard earned money just so you can watch Jake Delhomme throw another INT in Bank of America Stadium. I’m just saying
You will not let some group of so called "professionals" take your hard earned money just so you can watch Jake Delhomme throw another INT in Bank of America Stadium.
It’s a far cry from choosing to not renew a PSL or buy tickets and mechandise and choosing not to support a team anymore and abdicate to supporting another team.
You mention the Raiders and the Skins… no matter how terrible those teams have been in the last 10 years the Raiders still have the guys at the back of the endzone wearing spikes and facepaint… the Skins still have fans wearing pig noses to every game. Those are the hadcore fans. They might not support what the current owner or GM is doing, but they realize their team will be around long after that owner or GM or them themselves are long gone. They cheer for those colors no matter what.
I don’t begrudge anyone the right to choose not to gets tickets to show a vote of no confidence for a front office regime. But I personally I draw a line when someone pouts and stamps their feet like a petulent child when they as a fan don’t get their way. This is someone who’s willing to say ’I’ll start pulling for the Redskins again’. You’re either a fan, or your not. It’s okay if your team is the bandwagon, but don’t expect me to have respect for that decision.
This is something I’m very fervent about regarding all my teams. It takes alot for me to be truly ‘done’ with a franchise. In fact, the only one I can think was the Charlotte Hornets because they literally broke my sporting heart when they left the Queen City and I will never forgive George Shinn for that.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
It's not just the skins, James.
I inserted the Skins as a random NFL team that has a draw in NC because i’ve heard this theme form MANY, MANY fans lately on multiple occassions. But i’ve also heard nearly as many say they’d pull for Pittsburg, Favre & MN, Peyton & the Colts, Atlanta, Dallas, MIami, etc. — Not because they really like those teams, but because they are that sick and tired of watching Jake Delhomme.
Even before his 2009 nose dive, Jake had never been really anything more than mediocre. Inconsistent if you want to be polite about it. And Joe N.C. Pantherfan, is tired of Jake Delhomme. Except for Jon Fox & the few die-hard Jake Loyalers on CSR, i have heard NO ONE say anything positive (and mean it) about Jake Delhomme since the AZ playoff debacle.
If the average sunday panther watcher knew it was time to give up on Jake two years ago, why can’t the professionals running the organization get with the program?
It doesn’t matter what team you pick that people are willing to bail to. Bandwagon fans don’t care about who the QB is… they care about who’s winning.
The ‘average fan’ may have thought the Panthers should have given up on Jake Delhomme 2 years ago, but then they were proved wrong when we went 12-4 the next season.
Everyone loves to tout that they were ‘the one who knew Jake was done’ after the Arizona game… but I kind of look at it like the 250,000 people who claim to be at the Bobcats double OT victory over the Lakers last season.
If an organization is willing to bend to try and placate Joe NC Pantherfan then they have far deeper problems than who the QB is.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
haha yeah right!
The ‘average fan’ may have thought the Panthers should have given up on Jake Delhomme 2 years ago, but then they were proved wrong when we went 12-4 the next season.
Until Jake made that entire season a waste by playing what was arguably the WORST SINGLE NFL GAME PERFORMANCE OF ALL TIME against AZ in an embarrassing home play off loss.
With Double Trouble
All the Panthers have needed the past two seasons to be legitimate Super Bowl contenders was a QB that did not suck when it counted. Not a great QB, just one that wouldn’t turn it over in crucial situations.
Jake Delhomme was not capable of being that. And it was obvious to ANYBODY after week 1 of the 09-10 season, anybody that was not blinded by loyalty.
What a backwards way of rationalizing being wrong about Jake Delhomme.
If an organization is willing to bend to try and placate Joe NC Pantherfan then they have far deeper problems than who the QB is.
If an organization does not have a coach that is willing to make tough personnel decisions in order to do what it takes to win then they have real problems! Fox wasted an entire season 09-10 by not benching Delhomme early in the season when it was ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jake Delhomme was hurting not helping the team.
End of story on this past season. That is impossible to deny.
Look up Fox’s coaching record among coaches of his tenure then we can talk about whether he has ‘what it takes to win’.
Jake is the scapegoat, the easy out… did Fox make the wrong decision sticking with him? Absolutely…. I’m not denying that, however fans have too short a memory of what tough decisions Fox has made. Just because he screwed up with Jake doesn’t mean he’s not willing to make ‘tough personnel decisions’.
Ask Stephen Davis, Ken Lucas, DeShaun Foster, Dan Morgan, Kris Jenkins or Brentson Buckner if John Fox can make the ‘tough decision’.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
What's done is done
but if Fox favors Delhomme over Moore again, I’m pulling a “Dawg Pound Mike” this year
Why do we fight? :)
Do we all need a round of cumbaya?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
In some ways the bandwagon's good for business
You don’t want to make life too easy on the ownership and staff.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
dude, what will you do if.....
Moore sucks this preseason and Delhomme plays like an All-Star?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 9, 2010 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
That won't happen
But if it does, i’d think back to 2009 and KNOW that starting Jake Delhomme is bad, bad idea.
Lol, now you are not even using logic
What reason at all do we have to think that could happen? You are ignoring all recent history to support your argument.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Well recently
Moore has sucked in the preseason. And Delhomme has had some good preseasons recently. Honestly, this is just a theory, plus I was talking to dudemanhey in specific, but any Jake hater will do. ;)
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 10, 2010 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
RFA
He is a RFA and the panthers will likely put a 1st and 3rd round tender on him incase someone tries to sign him.
And if someone does sign him, they still have the right of refusal
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Moore is like gold this offseason
They can do little wrong with him, short of not signing him and him becoming a perennial pro bowler. They can put a high tender on him, and weigh other options at QB while other teams chew on it. Then even if an offer is made, they have the option to match it and retain him.
But getting a 1st & 3rd round picks for him and using the 1st on an unproven rookie QB sounds ridiculous. I say the only way they let him go is if there is a stud FA QB that they no they can lock up this off season.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
the only way they let him go is if there is a stud FA QB that they no they can lock up this off season.
I don’t even think that would do it. They obviously like Moore which is why they’ve kept him around every offseason… I doubt they would ditch him for another QB.
The only way I see Moore leaving Carolina is if a team offered him a giant contract well above what he’s worth at this juncture. If that occured I could definitely see the Panthers choosing not the match the offer, but it’s highly unlikely that happens.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
not impossible
“The only way I see Moore leaving Carolina is if a team offered him a giant contract well above what he’s worth at this juncture. If that occured I could definitely see the Panthers choosing not the match the offer, but it’s highly unlikely that happens.”
…see Cassel and KC Chiefs….
But it seems like they've only kept him as a last alternative
Both 08 and 10 he was the 3rd QB, but when Jake struggled or got injured they quickly signed guys to stick in front of him. He never really got a shot until the seasons were out of reach.
I think they have serious doubts… Maybe his camps, or practices, who knows??? But what we do know is he’s gotten it done when it counts. And I hope Foxy and crew have taken note.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
That’s my point. Third stringers don’t hang around with teams for a long period normally. There was obviously alot they liked about Moore and alot they still had questions about.
I agree that he’s never been handed the keys until the season was out of reach and/or players ahead of him were injured.
Now though at the very least he’s cemented himself as the #2 QB, and at best he’ll be starting. He did improve his station from 09-10
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
He hung around because he played well in 2007 as the starter
He should of been the #2 from then forward. But that they kept sticking guys in front of him says something.
If another team makes an offer for him… Do you think the Panther’s would really be willing to match that salary and turn down 1st and 3rd round picks for merely a backup QB? I don’t. I think he starts somewhere next year.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
It depends what that contract is and who the Panthers like in the draft
If Seattle and Pete Carroll decide they can’t live without Matt Moore and we’re talking about moving into the top 10, then absolutely the Panthers let him go.
If the Vikings make an offer with their 1st rounder at the bottom of the first round and the Panthers aren’t in love with a Tony Pike then I don’t see them letting him go.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
You don't draft a 1st round QB at any position, not to start them
Maybe you give him a year or 2 to take notes, but under the assumption that he’ll eventually take over. Moore has nothing left to gain by being a backup another year… nor does the team.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I agree with you
Moore gains nothing more by sitting again. All I’m saying is that the desires of the fanbase and the desires of the team may not align on this one.
It would be a damn shame to lose Moore now because we wouldn’t be willing to match a big deal… but a Sam Bradford would help lessen the blow.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
What reason do you have to think that the team's desire is to start Jake?
Other than a few that might support Jake because he’s their friend, I think most will want to go with the QB that just helped them win.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Where did I say it's the team's desire the start Jake?
I just said people shouldn’t be surprised if Fox says “It’s Jake’s job to lose” or something to that effect.
I’m not working in absolutes, just possibilities. People have a tendency to close themselves off to realizing what’s possible when it’s something they’re passionately against.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 9, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just only use to seeing Fox make those sort of decisions in the off season.
So if he says something like that, then I think it will really mean Jake or bust. I think it’d be harder for him to sit Jake during pre-season or regular season.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
That’s why I said ‘at the very least’. He improved his role from the 3rd to 2nd string guaranteed, now he’ll be fighting to start.
I don’t know why that kills you.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Out of 420 votes, (as of this writing) 88% voted Yes...
…they think Fox should name Moore the starter.
That brings 2 thoughts to mind:
1) I didn’t now there WERE 420 people who read this blog — I wish more of them shared their views;
2) That’s a pretty dominant percentage.
Richardson is a smart man... on that we 100% agree
Which is why he doesn’t get involved in anything but front office decisions… never has, never will.
I love that we don’t have a Dan Snyder or Al Davis in the owner’s box.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Interceding on this would not be an Al Davis move
Richardson would be making a decision that 88% of the world (fans and analysts) agree with, but that Fox is stubborn to a fault about. Davis makes decisions that nobody understands.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
The most respectable thing to do is
Have competition Delhomme has been a good player for us, don’t get me wrong I want Matt Moore to win the job he deserves it but it would seem unfair to me if Carolina was to give Delhomme a fat contact one year then tell him there’s no way you can win the starting job the following year. Plus lets say we do have a competition in camp Moore Vs Delhomme for the starting job, I think the staff will go in camp with the idea that #3 would have to screw up to lose his spot which I don’t see that happening to Mr Mad Matt. Last year he tried his best not to make mistakes, led long drives, got the ball to 89, allowed his running and passing play-calls to be more balanced, and I think the redzone could be his sweet spot. I’ll be rooting for ya Moore beat the old man outright that way haters can’t hate.
by Tommy_The_Pantherian on Feb 8, 2010 8:33 PM EST reply actions
I pretty much agree with everything you've said.
Other players fight for their positions in training camp… why should the QB position be any different?
Moore and Delhomme should get equal reps with the 1st team, and when it’s all said and done I think you’ll see Moore emerge the starter.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Since when has Jake fought for his position in camp?
Let there be a “competition” for Moore’s sake. But under no circumstance do you start Jake over him. Camp’s not going to prove anything that real games against playoff teams didn’t.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
There’s got to be a reason every team holds a training camp and reasons why some players more ahead of others on the depth chart during this period. I think camp proves a lot because it’s during this time the coaching staff can see what chemistry is building especially when new players are involved.
Jake has never been tested in the spring because there was no evidence we had someone who could push him. Moore proved that he can be that man so it’s time for Jake to be tested.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 8, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Camp is for positions where players are more evenly matched
And for players that are on the fringe of the practice squad… AND so the team can learn the plays and get in sync. Doesn’t mean there’s a competition at every position. Actually most (not all) starters don’t get challenged.
Prime example: I’m sure Stewart could seriously challenge DeAngelo in camp. But we all know DeAngelo will start based on what he’s done as the starter in real games.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don’t know if I’d consider that the ‘prime example’. Stewart has missed almost the entire training camp his first two seasons due to injury, and will likely miss training camp again. I think if he had a full camp like DeAngelo there is a very real possiblity they could split the starts evenly, but you can’t rely on that when Stewart isn’t healthy for camp.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 9, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Since 2003, I can't think of one accomplished starter that Fox has had his position taken by his "competition"
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Maybe because our starters are pretty good. :P
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 10, 2010 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
If Moore is as great as advertised
what is the problem? Do you guys really think he’ll have any trouble dispatching Delhomme in a competition? Personally I wouldn’t count Delhomme out just yet, but based on the viewpoints I’m seeing many of you put out, I don’t see what the problem is with competition.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 9, 2010 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think some wonder if Fox’s loyalties will influence his decision, hence why it took him so long to pull Delhomme in the first place. For him to think Delhomme was ‘the best for the job’ all season and then for Moore to come out and completely out play him brings Fox’s judgement to question. Obviously Moore wasn’t impressing Fox in practice, who’s to say he will in training camp? I’m all for a competition, If Delhomme still has what it takes then so be it, I just hope Fox makes the right decision sooner rather than later (as in not waiting until game 12 to rectify).
+1
Exactly.
Fox’s judgment with regards to evaluating the QB position is questionable at this point. It took (so freaking ridiculously long) for him to pull Jake last year and replace him with the an obvious improvement in Moore, that i wonder what he could have possibly been doing!
Did Fox truly believe that Jake gave the team the best chance to win in week 6 or 7? If he really believed that then wtf was he looking at? If he didn’y really believe that, but continued to stubbornly play Delhomme to the team’s detriment, then i REALLY wonder wtf he was thinking?!?!
Sadly, I lost much confidence in Fox after last season’s QB debacle. I just don’t know that i trust him to do a good job in evaluating and selecting next year’s starting QB.
Okay dudeman
In week six, he had just come off of a thriller vs Washington where he will us to a win, see his bootleg for proof. Week seven he’d had a bad week, it happens. Week 8 is your best shot, Delhomme has just had two god-awful weeks, on of which was directly responsible for our loss. But now he gets to play Arizona, how do you not give him one more chance, especially considering Moore hasn’t shown you anything special. The season is still alive, if you go to Moore and he fails, you have essentially given up on the season. And remember, based on what Fox has seen in practice, Moore is likely to fail, especially against a very aggressive ‘Zona defense. And we know Fox can evaluate QB’s, because he has found two UDFA who are starter material, Delhomme and Moore. We also know he can deviate from his starter, he did it in 03 with Peete. Fox will make the right decision based on the info he has.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 10, 2010 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
You are not listening to the arguments then
They are completely rational. Bottom line, Moore has played FAR better than Jake in recent history. Holding on to a glimmer of hope that Jake could potentially do a 180 and become a Pro-Bowler, is not logical.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
IF YOU DID NOT LIKE JAKE.....THEN....HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS
I have a “friend of a friend” type of thing and the Panthers actually have “talked” (st some length) about bring Jason Campbell….He is a Jake clone except he has younger legs.
If that does not make you gag…then what would. Honestly, all this team seems to need is to be left alone, except for bringing in a real number 2 w/r and then keep Moore in place as the starting qb. All of the mind games about “naming” Moore the starter etc…are silly as both sides know, the Panthers and Moore’s agent, that Moore is the only real shot the Cats have going into 2010 with a decent qb, especially if they wind up having to tag Peppers (which is also a strong possibility) as Richardson, who is one of the lead players in the NFL ownership group’s uncapped year/CBA /new CBA saga will NOT engage in buying a superbowl team by signing free agents who are priced way above market value in the uncapped 2010 offseason.
Watch for 5 or six teams to try and “hustle” or “buy” a superbowl team…Especially if that team happens to be hosting the event. Brandon Marshall will be a case study in how things happen when free agency begins. Another side note is the fact the Pats want Peppers but they have to deal with Wilfork and that should be interesting to watch.
This team has the pieces to win with and a new wide receiver would give them an even better shot as a team who can advance in the 2010-2011 playoffs (with Jake out of the picture). It is in John Fox and Marty Hurney’s collective “style” to keep the status quo, until it hurts. Let’s just hope they consider Matt Moore as part of that new status quo.
Jason Campbell got a bum wrap in Washington... I think he has alot of game left in him.
That being said, I fail to see where he fits in to our roster. Campbell would want to go somewhere where he can compete for the starting spot at least.
If this rumor is true and we brought in Campbell what are the Panthers’ intentions? Massive buyout and release of Delhomme? 3 way QB competition?
This is rather confusing.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 10, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
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