Panthers Keep or Cut: WR Kenneth Moore
by Jaxon on Feb 10, 2010 6:00 PM EST
62 comments
It pains me to subject one of my favorite new players to the Keep or Cut analysis but Panther fans have been clear about the need for more WR blood. That begs the question then as to whether to keep 3rd year WR Kenneth Moore. I had hoped Moore would be able to contribute more this past season after putting up a pretty good preseason. Alas, his impact was hardly noticeable in 2009:
1 start, 12 games played; 6 receptions for 59 yards (9.8avg); long of 22 yards, 1 fumble
On the positive side I think Moore did as best could be expected given his number was rarely called. You have to question how many receptions are are to go around to a #3 WR in this offense. 2 to 3 per game maybe?Moore was also given the chance to return kicks in the preseason and did pretty good but like the others had a hard time hanging onto the ball. In the regular season he did return 10 kickoffs for a 21.9 average. His season highlight has to be the 55 yard kick off return that sparked the Panthers first win of the season over the Redskins. His season low light is pictured.
Yet could Moore be the answer at #2 WR if simply given the opportunity? Could he provide more from the slot if the Panthers actually used 3 WR's more often? Moore's salary hit was $391k in 2009 so his 2010 number is probably not much more. Is he worth keeping around until training camp or should the Panthers cut bait with Moore in order to make room for some expected draft picks.
So Panther fans, keep or cut?
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If there was a 3rd answer, I'd say that I have no idea.
The Panthers hardly ever go out in 3 WR sets, and when they do Jake Delhomme doesn’t go through his reads enough to get to that 3rd receiver….which is probably why we never ran it in the first place.
Kenneth Moore had a good preseason. In the end though, someone has to take the plunge if we’re to grab a good #2 WR in the draft. We’ll probably get rid of Charly Martin before we get rid of Kenneth Moore, so in the long-term he’s probably safe if we only draft one WR. Any more than one WR during the off-season though, and his job is probably toast.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Really?
12-135 was a good preseason? Ugh.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
It's decent in four games when you aren't getting entire game reps
Preseason is more a judge of individual plays than stats anyways.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 17, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions
I voted KEEP.
Personally.. I’d keep Smith, Moore, and Martin. It’d be hard to let Moose go (I’d much rather see him retire a Panther, though it could still be done in the future) but every decision isn’t easy. Jarrett would also have to go. No hard feelings and best of luck but it’s time we part ways.
Personally.. I’d keep Smith, Moore, and Martin. It’d be hard to let Moose go (I’d much rather see him retire a Panther, though it could still be done in the future) but every decision isn’t easy. Jarrett would also have to go. No hard feelings and best of luck but it’s time we part ways.I’d throw a rookie in the mix and bring in a FA at least through the pre season. If they all make the final cut would depend entirely on what was shown during pre-season (which I’d be SURE they all got plenty of looks).
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Moore is a keeper
he has potential and hes still very young. not as young as jarret though. i would get rid of martin, resign moose, sign a free agent, and draft a wide receiver. then let them attle it out through camp and cut 2. Moore atleast deserves a chance to compete in training camp
Surprised you put up Moore before Jarrett
…but until it’s clear who we can land through the draft or FA, I can’t really say who’d have to go.
Moore showed some receiving ability in the few times he was thrown the ball, but the fumble he made was a big negative for him. Hope he can come back from it.
No reason to cut Moore OR Jarrett
At least not until training camp, and even then they would be guys I would expect to make it until the final cuts. Their cap hits are so low that I see no reason to let them walk now.
Will Parker
Moore's an ERFA
Bring him back, minimum tender, if he doesn’t perform up to par in camp, cut him.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 11, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
Walterfootball
He’s got a list of all the free agents.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 11, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Rotoworld is also a good place for this information.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Same as Hayden.
No sense in not keeping a hold of his rights in the event he has a good offseason and shows up ready to contribute.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I can't vote to cut K. Moore
When we don’t really know what he’s got. He was rarely used because as it’s been pointed out – we hardly run 3 WR sets, and with Jake at the helm it seems like #89 is the only receiver on the field most of the time.
If they go with M. Moore at QB this season then K. Moore should be given a chance to prove what he’s got. I would think that with a better option at QB we would see more 3-wide sets which would give K. Moore a chance to shine (or flop, whatever the case may be). If they’ve stuck with Jarrett this long, it’s only fair to give Moore a shot also.
I would cut Martin, and keep Moore and Jarrett. Smitty is a given, and I would be inclined to keep Moose around if he was willing to take a pay cut.
Draft a WR for KR duties this season (Mardy Gilyard, anyone?) and then when Moose is done for good we have our 4 guys going forward.
This is assuming that we don’t get a big-name WR like Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin – or take a chance on Donte Stallworth. If they did that, then it would almost be a given that either Moore or Jarrett would be gone – and to solve that problem I would let them battle it out in camp and go from there.
I think under Matt Moore
we might be able to see Jarrett, the coveted possession receiver from USC, the one that was always compared to Calvin Johnson. ok, I know I’m dreamin, but at least keep both KMoore and Jarrett until TC?
Who the hell compared those two?
Johnson was always a freak athlete. Jarrett was just a big kid who could outsize and overpower tiny Pac-10 DBs.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
That's a good summation of where we're at.
Since Miami’s now said to be very interested in Boldin, I doubt we’ll see any of the 3 you mentioned as a Panther, but I’m still hoping we look at Nate Burleson, who’s shown good return numbers in the past.
But that shouldn’t keep Jarrett and K. Moore from making the squad. They may have much better results with Matt Moore throwing to them, and we won’t know until they get more reps.
Whoops...
Except Moore targeted Smith just as often as Delhomme did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
The backup receivers had better numbers with Moore in than with Delhomme
What does that say?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 17, 2010 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
It says that Smith was out for 20% of Moore's games?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 17, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about even with Smith in
Moore was spreading the love a lot more.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 18, 2010 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
Not really.
Look at his target rate. The numbers were close to identical.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 18, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Target rate maybe
But the receivers had better overall stats with Moore in.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 19, 2010 2:08 AM EST up reply actions
That's a different statement.
“Spreading the love a lot more” would suggest that Moore was throwing more passes to more different receivers, when, in fact, he was not.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 20, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, if that's how you interpret it, fine by me.
I know what I meant, and I think everyone else except for you does as well.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 21, 2010 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
Keep
Jarrett has one great game with Matt Moore…. meanwhile the other Moore, Kenneth was busting his butt every chance he got.
Steve Smith took Kenneth Moore under his wing and mentored him during the preseason. If he gets Smitty’s vote of confidence he gets mine.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 10, 2010 7:31 PM EST reply actions
not dissing moore but didn't colbert get smiths vote as well
by pantherpride on Feb 10, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Colbert had an above average rookie year in my opinion, stepping in for Smith and getting the job done. When Smith returned the following year (and set the league on fire), all of our receivers numbers dropped dramatically.. After that I feel Colbert just sort of drifted into obscurity due to factors such as the signing of Keyshawn Johnson. It’s too bad he didn’t carry over the success he seen in his first year to the rest of his career.
Then again, I may be crazy when it comes to receivers.. I was still hoping we’d give Taye Biddle another shot when Minnesota grabbed him.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
colbert
he has had other chances though. he has played for other teams and for some reason just sort of lost it after his rookie year. I think he had to much success to quickly and it may have sorta killed his “edge” if you know what I’m saying. I feel like he may have felt like “well this isn’t as hard as everyone says, maybe I don’t really have to push this hard…”
by SouthernPanther on Feb 11, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
He was never fast and then had foot/ankle issues.
He went from hardly being able to get any separation to not any at all.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
It's probably worth noting...
That he’s hardly set the world on fire in any of his other NFL stops. And are you talking about ‘07? His numbers weren’t any good other than the Week 1 win where he played against backup-quality players for the majority of the game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
He also got hurt several times.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
And Moore was actually the starter opposite Moose in Week 17...
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Buffalo game
I was at the Buffalo game, the one where he fumbled that punt to put the game out of reach. It was a tough moment to watch. How having said that, I like moore, I like his story, I say keep him around right now, but I think Jarrett should be ahead of him right now. I still haven’t given up on Dwayne Jarrett.
by SouthernPanther on Feb 10, 2010 7:37 PM EST reply actions
Moreover.....I'd like to see how ALL of our receivers react to Matt Moore.
It’s a new guy coming in. Gone is the forcing of the ball to Steve Smith. Maybe now we’ll actually see our receivers produce because someone is throwing them the damn ball for once.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Not even remotely true.
Moore targeted Smith at less than a 1% lower rate than Delhomme did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
i think the real question is whether you cut moore or jarret
odds are these two will make it to camp and odds are one of them gets cut. so who will it be?
these are two young guys with potential. they are both cheap and have good work ethic (Jarret as of recent events). it might come down to what skill set we want. What really hurts Jarret stock is that he can’t play special teams while more can return and play kick return coverage.
Jarrett has good work ethic?
What do you figure?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
As of recent events.
To quote a bud of mine, reading is FUNdamental.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 17, 2010 3:14 AM EST up reply actions
Which recent events?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 17, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
The TD catch, saying he was working harder, the fact that he played the best ball of his career the last six or seven games.
Admittedly that’s not much to go on, but I’m an optimistic guy.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 18, 2010 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
Haha...
The fact that he says so means he’s working harder? Well I say I’m actually Bill Gates. I doubt they’ll care much at the bank.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 18, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Fine
You be skeptical all you want, I on the other hand will be optimistic for Jarret.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 19, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
A decent to below average WR
I love K. Moore being a WFU fan for years and ever since their amazing 2006 ACC Championship season an the Orange Bowl apperance it just made college football fun for me again. However I am a realistic and Moore being drafted by the Lions so high was strange to me the same as when A. Curry was drafted very, very highly by the Seahawks. WFU makes the most out of a very limited talent pool pipeline from GA, SC, NC, and lastly a small few places in FLA. Moore has the upside but I seriously, seriously doubt he is ever going to crack the starting 3 or be on a 3 WR set on a regular basis. K. Moore needs to work on ball handling, catching, and route running; he more than likely is going to be back on the Panthers next season however he may be buried on a newly acquired and deep depth chart at the WR position.
I voted keep ~ but K. Moore needs to show me something and Jarrett is more than likely gone as it stands now. But really it is down to those two, who do you keep Moore or Jarrett I agree with pantherpride’s post.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Feb 10, 2010 10:01 PM EST reply actions
with the saints/panthers game fresh in my mind i think i would go with jarret
hes got all the physical tools and now he has the motivation. he realizes he has to work if he want to keep his job let alone play. hes only 23 (about the same age as most rookies) so he’ll have alot of football left in him.
by pantherpride on Feb 10, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Why would we now assume he "has the motivation?"
One decent game against the Saints’ backups doesn’t mean he’s suddenly changed his shitty attitude.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Right now Jarret is under contract for another year
and Moore is an ERFA. Which means we can keep both and let them duke it out with the newcomers. Cut whoever doesn’t impress. We will have a ton of options this preseason, it’s going to be interesting to see who the final 53 will be.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
It's been said but...
I can’t help but feel that Jake has made all of these guys look kinda bad. What % of his throws targeted S. Smith? I’d bet Moore, Jarrett & Charley Martin got less than 20% combined. It’s hard to shine when your’e never handed a light. I remember all 3 making some pretty good catches during the season but in my mind none were ever thrown to consistently.
Like someone said earlier, I think w/M. Moore under center we’d find that we have a pretty good receiving corps as it stands. (at least in my mind) Now I’m not saying don’t go out and get a player in FA or the draft. I think we have to bring in 1 from each.
I’m hoping all of these guys get to camp and get the opportunity to prove themselves
+1 BUT
BUT…I still think we need to build more depth at WR. Moose is really getting up there in age, and WR is one of those positions where when you lose a step, you really lose a step.
by SouthernPanther on Feb 11, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Counterpoint
Jarrett didn’t look good in preseason either… and he only worked with Jake in one game.
Kenneth Moore looked great in preseason, so I will entertain your theory as it pertains to Kenny.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Feb 11, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
True..
But he did show that “too-little too-late” spark at the end of the season… I’m going to pretend that touchdown catch means a lot more than it does in actuality, for my own amusement :).
My first comment was assuming someone had to go but I’d love to see them all stay and battle for one more year.. or training camp/pre-season at least.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Nope.
Moore and Delhomme’s pass distributions were nearly identical in the games where all of the top receivers (Smith, Muhammad, Rosario, King, Barnidge, Jarrett, Moore) were healthy.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
I believe it has been shown
that Smith didn’t receive a higher percentage of targets than any other #1 receiver in the league. Now you could say the receivers suffered because Delhomme struggled, but saying he only looked to Smith is a bit of an outdated excuse.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 11, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I haven't checked but...
even if that is true…what % of the time did he target his #3’s compared to the rest of the league.
IDK
I’m too lazy to go dig up the numbers. But remember, if we had Larry Fitgerald at #3 in our offense he wouldn’t get that many looks. That’s just the way our offense works.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Feb 11, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
For the record..
Smith was targeted 123 times… (65 catches)
Moose was targeted 86 times… (53 catches)
Jarrett was targeted 26 times… (17 catches and what I find funny, he is second on the team percentage-wise in “passes caught” @ 58.6%, unless you count Martin. He was also second only to Smith in YAC/REC, YDS/REC, longest reception, and tied Moose with 1 TD. Of course, as would be pointed out, it’s an extremely small sample size but something to amuse oneself with nonetheless.)
Moore was targeted 8 times… (6 catches)
Martin was targeted 1 time… (1 catch)
As far as who was actually targeted the most by Delhomme, here’s where I look for my numbers, have fun :). lol
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Seeing those stats
I’d say for Jarrett it has just been a matter of not getting enough opportunities. I’ve been advocating for him not to be cut and be given his shot to start. However a lot of people are ready to pull the trigger and cut him. I just can’t give up on such a talented guy. I just think he needs to grow up and work a little harder, which now that he has had a small taste of success (The NO game), maybe he will
by SouthernPanther on Feb 15, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I've got Moore with 12 targets for his six catches on FFToday.
http://www.fftoday.com/stats/playerprofile.php?PlayerID=2944
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 16, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
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