Carolina Panthers' Monday Morning Optimist- 10/4/10
by James Dator on Oct 4, 2010 8:00 AM EDT
in Panthers Game Recaps
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Good morning Panther faithful. How does everyone feel this morning? Still stinging a little? I sure am, but I'll tell you what, I'd rather the pain of losing in the last seconds by two than the hopeless numbness that comes from a game where we never had a shot. Is it strange that I feel better at 0-4 than I did at 0-3? Maybe it is, but regardless I saw enough from enough guys to think that even if 2010 is a wash we have a very good team in the building.
Like we've been doing all season we can play the 'what if?' game with yesterday's loss:
"What if Munnerlyn didn't fumble?"
"What if Goodson wasn't face masked?"
"What if Smitty wasn't injured?"
"What if DeAngelo didn't try to break it to the outside at the end?"
Those are but four game changing plays all of which could have influenced the end of the game. Sure, there are an equal number where the ball bounced the Panthers' way but regardless the point in there.
Let's look inside the game and the players...
After the jump
Thus far in 2010 this is the point where I discuss the quarterbacks and how their performances are stacking up. While we saw by far the best QB play of the 2010 season yesterday, I've decided there is a player whose performance is more deserving of early recognition.
Last week many were in two minds whether my evaluation of James Anderson as 'extremely optimistic' was a fair one. After all, he did let some runs slip through his hands and could have been better dealing with Cedric Benson; today however, I feel there will be little argument about his standout performance.
Let's start with his stat line: 14 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, 2 fumble recoveries.
Read that line again... it will be criminal if he's not at least nominated for defensive player on the week. Anderson is a guy whose role was not cemented heading into training camp. When Na'il Diggs was cut there was a wide belief it would be a fight between Dan Connor, Anderson, Jamar Williams and Eric Norwood to see who would earn the SAM linebacker spot. With Thomas Davis' injury came the shuffling that eventually resulted in Anderson getting the nod on the strong side. While many fans have concentrated on Connor and Beason when it comes to the linebackers, Anderson has been steady and steadfast. This has allowed him to amass 43 tackles thus far, on pace for a total of 172 in 2010- truly remarkable stuff.
Perhaps most impressive in his performance was the intuitiveness to be around the ball and be a factor in fumbles. Anderson never gave up trying to make a play and this in turn allowed him to force one fumble and recover two. Great game overall.
Optimistic
James Anderson- Extremely Optimsitic: See above
Jimmy Clausen- Extremely Optimistic: This was far and away the best QB play we've seen in 2010. Though Clausen still needs to work on his patience and getting the angles on his passes better so they're not batted down, we've seen that most importantly he's going to protect the football. No fumbles issues this week, a bad pass or two? Sure... but it's clear to this fan that Jimmy Clausen is the real deal and the future of a QB position for the Carolina Panthers. For as much pomp and ballyhoo that Sam Bradford is getting his QB rating was still worse than Clausen's.
DeAngelo Williams- Extremely Optimistic: Did he likely cost the Panthers the chance to win at the end? Sure... but I'm not going to jump all over him for one ill advised cutback when without the one earlier in the game we wouldn't have had a chance to begin with. D-Will ran the ball much better against the Saints than we've seen all season and it appears he's getting his legs under him. 6.6 YPC, a great TD and good cuts mean I'm excited to see more.
David Gettis- Extremely Optimistic: Not so much based solely on his 37 yards receiving, but with one all important toe drag he gave the Panthers the chance to win. It was about time a receiver stepped up and showed they wanted to be the #2 receiver, and thus far it's Gettis who's proven it the most.
Mike Goodson- Extremely Optimistic: "Worst to first" at least for me anyways. If Goodson can keep retuning the ball the way he did then anything we get on offense will be the cherry on top. A 28 yard KR average is the best we've seen in almost two years, and without a horribly ugly facemask (which I hope will be reviewed by the league) who knows what would have happened on that final return.
Jason Baker- Somewhat Optimsitic: Steady and reliable as always. He's having a very, very good season.
Derek Landri- Somewhat Optimsitic: Like David Gettis is reaching up and taking the #2 WR spot by the throat so Derek Landri has done so on the defensive line. Another 5 tackles yesterday takes him to 17 on the season, for comparison Damione Lewis had 32 total in all of 2009.
Matt Moore: A special mention here for our backup QB. Moore was on the sidelines cheering his team on as loudly as anyone. He looked over photos with Clausen and Pike and was a great team player. It takes a lot of character to step up like that despite the beginning of the season. Give the man a contract (a cheap one) let's keep him as the backup long term.
Honorable mentions: Sherrod Martin, Dan Connor, Jeff King, Charles Johnson (fun fact: He has as many sacks as Julius Peppers thus far in 2010)
Pessimistic
Offensive Playcalling- Extremely Pessimistic: Davidson, Fox... it doesn't matter. The song remains the same on the lack of innovation in the play calling. At one point Smitty was motioning to the sideline that they needed to get the play to Clausen quicker, so one wonders whether Clausen skating the edge of the play clock for much of the day was really a product of a lost offense. Some of the best plays came when Clausen created himself, or audibled into a new play. This is exactly what we saw in 2009, and it has to change.
Mackenzy Bernadeau- Extremely Pessimistic: It was his turn to be terrible, and boy was he awful. An early sack, batted down passes by his man... the only reason DeAngelo Williams got his TD was that he exploited the fact New Orleans knew how terrible Mac-Bern and Schwartz were and blitzed too heavily. We need Otah back...
Brandon LaFell- Somewhat Pessimistic: There is no good reason David Gettis should make steps forward, but LaFell is treading water. It's still too early to condemn him, but he needs to make some strides soon.
Steve Smith- Somewhat Pessimistic: Even before the injury he doesn't look like the same player. His holding penalty erased a good gain, and even on the play where he was injured that's a play he would have gotten 15 yards on in years past, not 6.
Jonathan Stewart- Somewhat Pessimistic: Sure, the TD on the broken play was nice... but I don't look to J-Stew for his prowess on broken plays. 3.0 YPC simply wont cut it for our power back. He's still moving laterally far too often for my liking, maybe some of it is on the playcalling, but I didn't really like what I saw.
Dishonorable mentions: Tyler Brayton, Ed Johnson, Everette Brown
Overall Outlook
If you're like me you're excited by what you saw yesterday for the most part. The Panthers still have some life left in them yet and I think we'll see more from them next week vs. Chicago. Jimmy Clausen looks like the answer, more reps to Gettis and hopefully we'll start to see some positive signs of recovery from Jeff Otah. Oh... and cut Jarrett.
80% optimistic heading into the game vs. the Bears.
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I thought the defensive ends did fine.
They routinely collapsed the edges on both sides. The problem was Brees got rid of the ball quickly, and there was usually no pressure up the middle from the tackles. I remember a lot of Brees dropping back, the defensive ends getting within a step of a sack, Brees stepping up and making the throw ’cause he had a bunch of room between him and the tackles. Other than maybe Landri, I think the tackles had a bad game all around. Getting gashed for 4.5 yards per carry against the whatever string running backs was crazy. The middle of that Saints offensive line is rough.
stuff 'bout stuff.
I think they ran well because
…the Panthers were playing pass defense all day. Let them have 3-4 yards on a run play, it beats 20-30 yards on a pass play. If they can keep Brees from throwing 60 yard TDs, then I can see allowing some yards on the ground. The Panthers picked their poison, and chose correctly.
Let's go Panthers, 2010 is our year!
by Tarheel Soldier on Oct 4, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe their bigger gains on the ground came on sweeps, not up the middle.
Our DEs, notable Everette Brown, didn’t contain, and allowed their RBs to get around the corner, similar to how D-Will cut back outside for his TD.
Brown has a tendency to make too many inside rushes, leaving his flank vulnerable. If he’s going to take such an angle, it needs to be communicated to his LBs, so they can contain.
On another note, I also love that Carolina finally has a kick returner. That is almost enough of a reason to watch in itself. Goodson is the first returner we’ve had in many years that I feel like could break one on any touch.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Oct 4, 2010 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+2
Seriously, without that facemask, I think he breaks that. There was another occasion where he was one guy away from breaking one as well.
It isn’t just Goodson though, did you see how many of those coverage guys that our special teams floored on those kick-offs? They were getting laid out. Finally a great effort on special teams.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
There's a new cohesiveness to our return game now.
Last year it looked to be free-lancing by all blockers, without any patter or plan to it.
The new ST coordinator is doing a good job, and should be commended. Sometime this year, either Munnerlyn or Goodson, or both, will break one for a score, I think.
Nice writeup James
First of all Smitty does not look like he has any chemistry with Clausen yet and if he is out for 3-4 weeks than it may be all the more unlikely that we see success in that partnership for a while.
Clausen looks fine. Tough outing against the Saints in the Superdome – having to deal with the headset issues in those conditions is just a ludicrous position to have him in. Matt Moore is plain awesome. I love team players and stand-up guys – this guy has the greatest attitude.
It may be time to move away from the bunch formations because I get the feeling that the WRs are not developed enough to operate out of that formation. It’s not like we are letting linebackers or safeties through – we are seeing heavy penetration from the d-lineman.
Jarrett has turned into the living embodiment of the words “epic fail”. What are the odds that Edwards gets activated next week and Jarrett does not?
Our defense is tantalizingly good at the moment. Brees is just too good with his release but I think there was some improvement in the pass rush this week. Anderson had a great day.
How badly did you want to give Kasay a shot at a 55 yarder at the end of the game?
Looks like no Cutler next week. It also looks like Bears have protection issues that exceed our own. Fox and company need to put everything into this last game before the bye week. I don’t care who is on our OL – can we please just get better?
I still like 9-7. Not going to be easy but we have a shot.
by pieterzen on Oct 4, 2010 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No wind in the dome...give old man Kasay a shot!
I would’ve loved to see Kasay to get a chance to win that game. That last play was a no-win situation. Trot Kasay out there, and I would’ve lived with whatever results came from his field goal attempt.
by Newsinz on Oct 4, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kasay or Lloyd
I agree on the no-win last play called, even if Kasay didnt had the leg for the distant, i am sure Lloyd had the leg but not the accuracy, at least give it a shot!!
by the highlander on Oct 4, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You mentioned bunch formations - good observation.
As was mentioned by the TV announcers, too many plays are being run against 8 man fronts, and then we compound the problem of gap cloggage, by putting one of our WRs in motion, but instead of that motion being away from the middle, it’s coming to rest in even MORE of a bunch look, which only serves to bring a 9th defender into the picture.
The specific play the announcers mentioned was a prime example.
They actually had 9 men in the box on that play. One of our WRs motions in and brings the 10th man with him. That guy then keys in on the run play and is one of the main defenders in on the play. It’s ridiculous. That’s not stretching the defense to open them up for a run, it’s compacting them.
I think it is a crime against us as fans is Armanti doesn't get a jersey next week
If for no other reason than to make the opposition think about the mountaineer formation. With Smitty out, we need to at least have him suit up.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Who else could it be, unless it's Tyrell Sutton.
And if Sherrod Martin can’t go, it may be both of them active.
I agree with your assessment as well James
I like the mention of Matt Moore as a back-up.
Top 5 pick: Extremely optimistic
Beat the Bears: Optimistic (their offense is as bad as ours)
Otah coming back in time to make a difference: Very pessimistic
I’m ready to ditch the entire offensive coaching staff. They all blow.
Davidson still biggest problem
Nice post. Although, I don’t agree that D.Will possibly cost us a shot at a FG….if that’s the play that’s called, he’s trying to make a play! My biggest problem is, WHY when we start at our 35 yd. line with 2 1/2 mins to go, are we running the ball up the middle??…and initally, w/ our “power back”, J.Stew, not our “break away back”, D.Will. The Off.Coord., who has loved the screen pass this season, doesn’t call even ONE at this point?!! Goodson might have been hurt after the facemask, but D.Will is quite capeable of screens! (1 catch, 14yds. in this game) Screen passes to a speedy back move the ball right down the field in this spot and get in postion for a chip-shot game winning FG! Instead, Davidson is running it up the middle, “strategically positioning the ball” for , oh…I dunno….maybe, …a 55-65 yd FG!! Brilliant!!! At the point of D.Will’s ill-advised cutback, they still weren’t in Kasay’s range! Run up the mid, run up the mid, pass on 3rd and long. Awesome! When are they going to get rid of Davidson?!! Yes, this is a young team…youngest in the league, but they HAVE talent. It should develop and this could be a strong team of the future, but not as long as Davidson and his “Play Calling for Dummies, 101” is around!
I agree that something def. looks wrong w/ J.Stew! Is that ankle not completely healed or strong? Or is he just worried about it. But J.Stew is “dancing” on all his runs! That is not his thing…he’s always the power guy, legs churning!! If the ankle isn’t right, sit him and let it get right. But if he’s ‘worried’ about it….hmmmmm!
This young team has got to get a win to believe that they can! I love’em, they Will develop, but at this point, seeing, 3-13 this year.
by Vinnie 16 on Oct 4, 2010 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How can anyone say D-Will trying to 'make a play' didn't cost us a FG attempt?
maybe Kasay still misses it but we are on the 38 yd line, a 55 yarder at that point…2 runs up the middle for even a couple yards makes it more manageable…52-53 yds. Kasay will hit that 4 out of 5 times.
D-Will’s 4 yd loss changed everything…all he had to do was put his head down and plow ahead. Again 2 or 3 yards is all we needed, we didn’t need him to make a play.
Two weeks in a row our vet RB’s have made critical errors.
I dunno
When the players lined up, I was screaming at the TV that the cutback on the left side was there. The DB made a great play….
by panthersnbraves on Oct 4, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
The offense and D.Will. wouldn’t have had to “make a play”, as I said to try to line up for a 55 yd .FG, (a younger Kasay makes that “4 out of 5 times.” THIS Kasay…doubtful!!) if they weren’t running it up the middle, running it up the middle and then going downfield on 3rd and long! They would have been lining up for a chip-shot FG, instead! The “critical error” came during the entire 2 min drive with the play calling! It was RIDICULOUS as it has been all year! So don’t put all the blame on D.Will who is trying to make something out of nothing play calling! (and as noted, the cutback WAS there…defender made a great recovery. If not, D.Will takes it to the house, we are singing his praises and not even having this conversation!!)
Altho, I’m strating to agree with some other posts pointing out that even though Davidson is much more predictable than Henning, both were under the Fox regime….and it might hionestly be him that is limting them. no matter what, BOTH Fox & Davidson have got to go!
especially indoors
i was still ready to let him try at 59 or 60 actually, considering the time left.
Agree, but mssing the point!
I woulda rather seen Kasay try the LONG FG at that point too! Point is, if play calling on the entire drive wasn’t so ridiculous, as it has been all season, Kasay would have been lining up for a 29 yarder or so instead of a 55 -59 yder! Why were they running it up the middle and then off tackle w/ J.Stew. to start the drive on their own 35 w/ a little 2 mins to go?? Why are they not throwing screens and such to move it into FG range to begin with?? And then run it up the middle to postion it for a SHORT FG! The play calling started out "postioning " it back on their own 35! Get in FG range first! Then get D.Wll or J.Stew to run it and “put their head down and get 2 or 3 yds”. This play calling is ridiculous and has been for quite a while!
This is a talented but young team. Fox has run his course and Davidson is horrible!
He can hit 60...
It’s not about whether he has the ability to hit the FG from 60 back, it’s whether or not he can get the ball over the defensive linemen.
+1 on the playcalling
If you need 7 yards, and are having trouble keeping your rookie QB upright, why send FOUR on 20 yd routes? Send 3 deep, and have someone run a crossing route against the LB.
Whoever sent 28 out as a WR gets to stay another week….
by panthersnbraves on Oct 4, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree vinnie
I can’t blame that on D Will alone. Our O line, playcalling (should have just run it with Stewart, that’s what he does), and Clausen’s horrible throw at the end (Jarret was covered tight and it wouldn’t have been a 1st down anyway). Yeah, D Will got a loss, but the left was wide open and that defender came out of nowhere. Should have kept running it instead of passing. Clausen was sacked and then made a bad decision. Overall, I continue to blame the play calling, whether it’s Fox or Davidson, I don’t know, but the play calling the achilles heel, more so than the passing game. They got rid of Matt as the starter to “spark” the offense. Clausen is doing well, thank goodness, but we need to get better coaching in order to really “spark” the offense.
Great write up James......
although I slightly disagree with the playcalling and I think at least a little bit of credit has to go to the coaching staff when your in position to win a game in which you were thouroughly outplayed (and most of the credit to the heart of the players). This was not a flat Cincy team like the previous week, Brees and the Saints were pretty darn good yesterday. I recognize that the biggest plays were not specifically designed plays, but I also think so far they’ve done a decent job protecting the rookie from himself and hopefully they’ll begin to loosen the reigns more each week. I think the crowd and stadium issues were the biggest problem with getting the plays in. I know I’m in the minority with my opinion on the Panthers coaching issues but I think in general NFL coaches are alot brighter than fans like to give them credit for. I constantly hear the exact same complaints here in Philly regarding the Eagles playcalling & coaching.
With all that said….I think the Panthers are poised for a win streak in the coming weeks…and hopefully 89 won’t miss too much time. I still have hope for this season.
Yes, let's have a meaningless win streak to we can get to 6-10 or 7-9
more Fox mediocrity and mid-round draft pick. Screw it, let’s go for a top 3 pick, we’re well on our way now. Just the Bills, Lions and 49ers (whim we play) in our way.
Sorry, my pessimism getting the best of me this morning.
Join the club Jax...
I’m all for going 4-12 to solidify Fox being shown the door. Throw Davidson out on the street as well, and get someone in who knows how to be more imaginative on offense than run … run … 40 yard bomb … punt.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
A first round pick is a first round pick.
The difference in talent from a top 3 pick and a top 20 pick is marginal.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Oct 4, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
what about a top 50 pick to a top 3 pick?
a couple years ago we got Otah and Stewart in the first round. Since then, 1st round picks are used for trades. We did get 6 picks in the last 2 rounds, though, for what it’s worth. Why is Gettis playing better than LaFell, and why did we trade up for Edwards exactly?
by usana_gaines on Oct 4, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
edwards even here
Why did edwards even make the team? Oh yeah we didn’t want to look stupid with our draft pick move/mistake- I do not understand why people want him in the game- oh yeah he is a local college kid but he is still slow and looks confused at game time. I think the big beer guy who jumps on the field could chase edwards down :)
On the other note- we look like we might have a qb for the future- meaning this season is/has been done before it started- where will fox go after this year? Cowboys would be a good fit I think. Why can’t we draft a WR/ NEED HELP-NOW HIRING NEW SCOUT POSITION FOR WR- When was our last pick that worked for us? Remember the paper bag moose would wear that said decoy? Smith is now wearing this decoy mask- with him not in the game what will happen with our not NFL ready WR’s when they actually have defenders covering them? Should be fun to watch especially for the ones that are scared to get hit- remeber colbert(scared out his mind to get hit) :) I still laugh at him but we have not had a good WR draft pick since S.Smith. Who I wouldn’t blame if he decided to leave- it would suck but would cheer for him where ever he went(still think the best WR out in NFL no matter what the stats say). Well think the panthers organization knew the results for this year due to the fact of not signing any free agents. Push out fox and team/ save the money- hopefully build the players we do have, come out swinging when we return- will it work- who knows. Everyone says peppers would have been a big factor if we kept him- Do not think so, he is a big athletic guy but only gave it 100% at the end of last year to show his talents to other teams. Think our young Defense looks good and moving great without him ( why did Gamble piggy back the WR during the game/ what was he thinking to give the saints that big goal line stand) Many up and downs but looks like a team in the building phase.
Off of the panthers subject- suprised the lions have our record- think they are a better team then their record shows- one of these years they will step up out of no where to be a true scare team to play. Bad luck has followed them for long enough to have a good team. Saints will not have a repeat of last year- Steelers pulling off 3 wins with no ben GOOD JOB. Chiefs only unbeaten- Crazy but maybe for real
by justanotherfact on Oct 4, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Just another fact?
I think the big beer guy who jumps on the field could chase edwards down :)
Ignorant of the facts, maybe.
Considering he hasn’t been active and you haven’t seen him on the field, would you care to share where you obtained this nugget of brilliance?
Seen everything in preseason
SLOW- VERY SLOW- put him in and let us see what our edwards can do- I want to see what he has got. Look like watching tape in slow motion when he ran pre-season but maybe he will work- THROW him in- you judge
by justanotherfact on Oct 4, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Pre-season stats were good
9 catches and a first down catch in every game. Had 25 yard KO return and 17 yard PR the final pre-season game.
One thing Armanti has never looked is slow.
maybe
maybe I have a slow cable connection- add to your info during what part of these games the catches were made- as many preseason players never seen past those games-especially the final pre-season game. Looked better at the qb when he had a shot then at WR- plus you never added the dropped passes, not to mention the muck ups on return :) either way this season is a building phase so let us throw him in and see what he is working with- you never know- might be good- I might need a higher cable connection, So many options but keeping him hidden will not help, Let us see the hidden man
by justanotherfact on Oct 4, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
People remember he 2 PR gaffes because they were blatant
But i do not think Edwards had any actual dropped passes in the preseason games.
If i’m wrong somebody cite me some specific examples.
I would give him a go at WR. Unless the Panthers do something shocking and sign somebody, which I doubt they will, Edwards should get a shot at some PT.
Also we don’t need him as a KR or PR. We have those spots filled. This is the perfect season to find out what these young guys can do as well as generate some chemistry between them heading into next season.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
If Armanti can PR then why not have him share duties with Munnerlyn?
As of now, Captain is a much more important part of the defensive scheme than Armanti could be to the offense. An injury to Munnerlyn would be much more detrimental overall than one to Edwards — and returning punts definitely puts a player in harms way. If Armanti has a future as a returner, then this is the year to get some action.
Hurney had something interesting to say about Edwards
Basically he said that Edwards was not used to playing WR and he had jello legs by the end of pre-season (i.e. he looked slow). He also mentioned that he’s seen Edwards get his legs back in the past couple of weeks. It will be interesting to see what happens when he gets a jersey.
I don't doubt that at all.
He probably ran more in training camp than he did in his entire college career.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I have to agree with "justanotherfact" here.
Edwards does LOOK slow. I watched him at training camp very closely. I can’t say that I ever saw him running next to someone else, but in the open field he looked slow to me too. There were others around us that made similar comments, so I know it’s not just me. Maybe it’s his stride, maybe it’s his reluctance to get hit, I really don’t know but I can tell you that he hasn’t showed me the speed that was advertised. If he’s fast but doesn’t look it, then I apologize.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
He is not Gettis
But Edwards is deceivingly fast. He makes it look kind of effortless.
I have watched lots of Armanti, and always thought he was always very in control of his movements, has an excellent burst of speed and the ability to change direction at top speed.
Check out this video of him against Richmond in the FCS semifinals. Particularly the rushes at 1:17, 1:44, 2:15, 2:50, & 3:43.
He looks faster in this video....
than I’ve ever seen him look in real life. I hope it translates to the big leagues. I was really looking forward to having another shifty little game breaker in the passing game. I hope he proves to be worth what we gave up to get him. I think he’s a good kid. Thanks for the vid.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I think a lot of it is that he isn't on autopilot yet
He was out there thinking to much about how to run routes and do the things that WRs need to do to be successful. As a running QB, he was a natural, he knew how to do it up and down. In time, he will be think less and playing harder (in a sense that he can devote 100% to beating the guy in front of him instead of mechanics)
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
With everything that is wrong with this team's performance
and you’re going to rail on a draft pick that has yet to see the field? Much more low hanging fruit than that.
just want to unmask some hidden players
We all know where this season is headed- we all knew in pre-season. So let us get a glance of these hidden players. We really might have a QB for the future but who will he throw to when that time comes? If we are building let us see with what. Let us be prepared to dump the ones that are not going to work. Give us some hope for the future not just for our 1st Win of the year.
by justanotherfact on Oct 4, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Declaring a QB-converted-to-WR a bust/wasted pick/whatever you want to call it 5 weeks into his rookie season is one of the most ignorant things that I can possibly think of. I’m not the worlds best when it comes to having patience but good lord, that’s ridiculous. Especially when that same player had a good pre-season showing.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
maybe he will get a jersey this week with Smitty out
and we can see first hand what he ca do with his probably 1 or 2 touches
I think he will get a jersey
What are our other options? We are now down a WR, we should probably activate a WR to replace him, not to mention it makes some wildcat/mountaineer a threat.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
BTW, welcome to the blog justanotherfact
We don’t mind the differing opinions…we’re just a little riled up this morning
edwards
the way i see it, i don’t understand trading up to pick him when we already drafted lafell and had smitty and jarrett. i mean, i’m assuming foxy didn’t know jarrett would be this invisible. we also didn’t know gettis would be this good. he’s not all that, but maybe edwards would get more playing time if gettis sucked. he ran a 4.47 on his pro day, i think, so he’s pretty fast, but that’s not super fast for a receiver. he may look slow on the field because he’s not running full speed because he’s not sure exactly what he’s doing.
i don’t have any truly indisputable facts…i’m just giving my assessment. either way, foxy and company gotta go.
Well...
i’m assuming foxy didn’t know jarrett would be this invisible.
If you’re Fox, I think you have to assume that Jarrett was going to be mostly a non-factor. The light hasn’t turned on in over three years. You have to operate under the assumption that it never will if you’re drafting.
I agree somewhat with this
I think what we saw from him is doing a lot of thinking and not putting 100% of what he has into it yet. Right now he is so concerned about routes and being in the right spot, he can’t just be the natural athlete that he is. Give it time, eventually there will be less mental and more physical.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I couldn't disagree more
It depends on the draft but being in the top 3 you essentially get to pick whomever you want…at #20 all the top talent is usually gone…at least the top rated talent. Top players get overlooked every year.
With top 3 you cany typically get the best players at whatever position you desire, or the #2 but sure to be a good if not great player…again provided your team knows how to pick talent.
If you want to be pessimistic and say you can get talent anywhere in the draft as well as waste a pick on a bust well then sure, you can stick with the opinion that draft position doesn’t matter. But I’ll take the #3 over #20 anyway.
by Jaxon on Oct 4, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
100% agree
Ask Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald if they’re better than Tedd Ginn Jr, Bryant Johnson and Michael Clayton respectively.
It takes a special kind of suck to be a complete bust in the top 3 overall picks, get deeper in the first round and it’s a lot easier.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
lol on the special kind of suck. I know he is a QB and is used all the time in these discussions, but see:
Russell, JaMarcus
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I'll see your JaMarcus Russell and raise you a Ryan Leaf
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
You got me there...
Can’t argue with the stupidity of Matt Millen.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
On paper Rogers made all the sense in the world.
Nobody could have predicted that weed was more important to him than his career.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
perhaps ... but the millen argument still applies, lol
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
and he was a pretty good linebacker too
it amazes me that he could be so inept as a GM
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
steroids
all the raiders used steroids back in the day, but it doesn’t help make draft picks. he needed some sort of performance enhancing drug as a GM.
I don't think the top talent is mostly gone 'til after the first half of the second round.
I don’t see the different between the number one running back and the number two or three back. They’re usually all great players. You could do the same thing for most positions. In 2008, Chris Johnson didn’t go ‘til #24. Ray Rice didn’t go ‘til #55, and Carolina got Stewart at #13. What’s the difference between Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan at #18 and #3 respectively?
If it was a perfect world, and every team drafted the top people at each position first according to how they would do during their careers, then some positions would thin out by the middle of the first round. However, others would still be nearly as good as their top 3 or 5 pick counterparts. The reality is that’s not how players are drafted anyway. The best talent at positions do fall through the top of the first round every draft. Our team has drafted well in the first round in the past, so I think they can pick out an elite gem.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Oct 4, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
This depends on the draft...
Some drafts are much deeper than others (like this years) while some are much much more shallow (like next years is looking to be).
I'm still not willing to concede that a win streak with only 4 losses in the books is "meangingless"
I hear and understand where you guys are coming from but I personally can’t bring myself there until we have 9 losses.
by paydirt16 on Oct 4, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jaxon...
I am also leaning towards them sucking out loud to ensure a regime change and hopefully future improvements for the team through a decent draft.
4-12
Just beat the Bears, Saints, Falcons and Bucs, lose the rest I don’t care…Let me clarify, I don’t WANT to lose 12 games, 12-4 would be quite fun too. But I’m resigned to non-playoff season so would rather have a top3 or 5 pick than another #18 after a 8-8 season
WIth the records of the other teams being what they are thus far
8-8 getting in is NOT unrealistic. When we are mathematically eliminated i might see your side. Until then i want to win.
I do not think we suck. I think the coaches are sucking, but our players have the talent to win every game. If they can get it together immediately the season can still be saved!
+1 on everything except.......
I would substitute poor execution and failure to make plays for the coaches sucking. (IE: 3 INT’s in the endzone vs the Giants. Poor blocking and tackling on 3rd down vs Bucs, dropped INT opportunities & crucial fumble by 28 vs Cincy.) I’m not saying the coaching has been good but I think it’s getting way too much blame ….
Yesterday it seemed like the team started to come together and really took a step forward and I share your hope the season can still be saved.
+1
My thoughts exactly — if we’re gonna miss the playoffs, don’t do it with 8-8 or 7-9. At least get something (i.e. – high draft pick) out of it.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Honestly
Id rather not hve a top 3 pick and be forced to pay all that guaranteed money to a guy who has never played a down in the league before. Sure, we’ll have to end up paying money to some rookie but the top 3 picks have gotten way out of hand.
If we do end up with a top 3 pick then we better get it right because those types of misses can set back a franchise.
by R-F on Oct 4, 2010 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
there will be a rookie salary cap with the new cba
both the veterans and the owners want it — its gonna happen. it’s why all those quality guys came out in last year’s draft — they knew they would leave money on the table by staying in school
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
there has to be one eventually
the current one expires and I don’t think they’ll renew it, when both sides want parts of it changed
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Would be nice to get a break like that
First year having a top 5 pick and they put in a rookie cap.
by R-F on Oct 4, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
getting the plays in?
don’t other teams just pass the play over the headsets? am i missing something?
by usana_gaines on Oct 4, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the major issue
was communicating the play call to the players because of the noise levels in the dome. I think one of the players said that they had lip read Clausen to figure out what play was being called.
On top of that the headsets were faulty for a portion of the game. Matt Moore was using signs to communicate the plays on to the field.
I know I’m in the minority with my opinion on the Panthers coaching issues but I think in general NFL coaches are alot brighter than fans like to give them credit for. I constantly hear the exact same complaints here in Philly regarding the Eagles playcalling & coaching.
Philly fans will complain LOUDLY about anything at the drop of a hat. They are some of the most fickle and emotional fans in the league.
Still, you cannot deny that calling go routes on 3rd down against a blitz happy team considering our pass protection is suicide. Also, calling all those runs wasted a lot of time and ultimately killed any chance we had to win. Just because someone is bright it doesn’t mean that they don’t fall into ruts and do dirt stupid things. Davidson has a history of stupidity and ill will which he has carefully crafted and cultivated.
by patosan on Oct 4, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Your point is well taken and.......
I will humbily concede that I’m probably just a rah-rah type of fan, and most of the folks on this blog (that are critical of the coaching) are far more knowleadgeble students of the game than I.
I just think its useful to provide reminder that we fans are not privy to alot of the things going on and that its really easy to second guess things when they don’t work ;-)
just out of curiousity…I understand the “stupidity” viewpoint but could you expound on the “ill will”….I haven’t been around that long…does he have a history of treating the press or fans arrogantly?
True true my friend...
most of the folks on this blog (that are critical of the coaching) are far more knowleadgeble students of the game than I.
I count myself in the group who needs to learn a bunch as well. I need to know a lot more about the game than what I do.
I just think its useful to provide reminder that we fans are not privy to alot of the things going on and that its really easy to second guess things when they don’t work ;-)
Too true, I try to hold my judgement on this forum a bit longer than I normally would (with mixed results) for that very reason. I think we all could stand to remember this fact…
just out of curiousity…I understand the "stupidity" viewpoint but could you expound on the "ill will"….I haven’t been around that long…does he have a history of treating the press or fans arrogantly?
I think the ill will is mostly due to the fact that our play calling has been very predictable for years. I could sit at home and call the play we would run and I was almost always correct. Now if I can do that, I’m SURE someone who has studied footage and is an expert would do better than me. This has been going on for years and we still do not break out of our tendencies. It just gets old and people get really tired of seeing the same old garbage every week. After a while that frustration festers and it turns to ill will… Or at least it has with me anyhow. :-)
Honest Look
If we take an honest look at where we are right now and how we got here. We have to admit we are in a training and development year. We will do good to come out of this with at best a 7 and 9 year, maybe a 6 and 10. We just don,t have the offense line to do any better. The only way we could improve on that would be if Otah would come back and the line finally got a heart for the game. Plus our defensive tackels need to step up or find someone who will. Jarett has to go and let Edwards play because he is shifty and fast after the catch, and needs time on the field to put it all in perspective. I think the defense is doing well and showed it by holding the Saints to sixteen points and most of those were field goals. So I am going to sit back and just watch the year unfold and hope all these young players actually learn their skills and maybe we will get some good draft picks next year to spend on the offensive and defensive lines. Although I supported Matt I am pulling for Clausen to do well and learn his trade.
It's got to be Fox...
I mean look, 2 offensive coordinators running the same vanilla plays… Dan Henning and Jeff Davidson. Davidson is more predictable than Henning but they both ran/are running boring plays.
It’s Fox that approves them and he’s the one limiting the team. He’s let Meeks run the defense and they’re getting better; he needs to let go and trust his O-coord and see what happens.
I would agree
Think about how many different coaches and coordinators have left/been fired under Fox’s tenure.
Henning is running the Dolphins and the 19th ranked offense, not spectacular… but better than our 30th.
Trgovac is managing the Packers DL and pass rush, a pass rush which has generated 16 sacks, tied 1st in the NFL.
Even Danny Crossman has turned the Lions into the 10th best returning team (We’re 12th).
I know all these guys had their own issues, but one has to wonder how much of it all is on Fox.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Trgovac… bah! He was working with what Jack Del Rio left him for the first couple of seasons. He was handed a top 10 defense… and over time it faltered. Meeks has come in and shown that he’s quite capable of running a defense. In my opinion that is.
Indeed
I’d much rather Meeks than Trgo, but it still shows a pattern of behavior where coaches are better after they’ve left Fox’s coaching staff.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
It seems that almost everyone that’s left the Panthers have improved… unless they went to the Bears.
Look at Kerry Collins… sucked at Carolina, hit by Romanowski and broke his jaw, developed a drinking problem… was cut and blew up with the Giants and Titans.
Witherspoon, Manning Jr, and even Jenkins… big stats when they leave.
Good post but...
Clausen’s team is 0-4, Bradford’s is 2-2.
Last year, D-Will dropped a TD and fumbled in NO and the Panthers lost. This year, tackled for a loss taking them out of FG range. Both games he had TD runs…high reward, high risk.
Goodson reminds me of a young Steve Smith.
I’m a huge Steve Smith fan but you’re right, he’s not the same. I think the “injury” is a blessing in disguise. Let the rookie QB and WRs make their own history.
I’m extremely optimistic that the Panthers will win the next three games.
To be fair...
Clausen’s team is 0-2
Moore’s team is 0-2
I guess what I’m getting at is: Take Jimmy Clausen as his 72.1 rating as a starter to St. Louis and the Rams are still 2-2, take Bradford’s 72.3 rating to Carolina and we’re still 0-4.
Clausen faced two teams whose current record combined is 5-3 (0.625)
Bradford faced four teams whose current record combined is 7-7 (0.500)
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
No argument here...
I’m sure Clausen will perform better than Bradford when the Panthers beat the Rams!
by NCMAC on Oct 4, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Extremely pessimistic about...
That facemask. They knew Goodson was eating them up and the worst that could happen was a 15 yarder. I don’t like to whine or get all conspiracy theory but that was a little too obvious.
I guess if you ’ain’t’ cheating you ’ain’t’ trying but seriously, eff the Saints for that play. Hope we shove it down their throats the next time we meet up.
by GuyIncognito on Oct 4, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Pessimistic about the refs in general.
The pass interence on Gamble that set up NO’s only TD was questionable at best.
The holding on Smitty that erased a 23 yard gain by Williams was unusual.
The Munnerlyn fumble could have gone either way.
But what made it so obvious that the refs were shady was their reluctance to call that facemask at all. The Saints nearly ripped Goodson’s head off, and no flag. If Mike hadn’t laid on the ground, writhing in agony, the zebras were not going to even call that blatant and dangerous foul.
Blaming officials is lame. But that Goodson situation shows what happens when one team thinks they can get away with whatever.
Way too long.
Must have been a full minute of Goodson lying on the ground before the flag came out. I don’t know how hard it is to see from the field but it was pretty clear during live play that Goodson was done pretty wrong.
Oh well, I guess if we were going to win on merit we would have done it but I’ll be salty about that play for a while.
by GuyIncognito on Oct 4, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The conspiracy theroists believe that the officials are trying to help the Saints win the season again…
because my god...
If we can’t give championships to areas ravaged by disasters then what CAN we give them?
Financial Aid?
Food and clean water?
Sturdy shelter?
F THAT! THEY NEED SUPER BOWL RINGS DAMMIT!
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
by Tater596 on Oct 4, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Optimistic about the D overall
16 points allowed to the Saints was a respectable showing. NO did rack up the yards, but hey, bend and don’t break. The takeaways are always welcomed. (If it hadn’t been for the questionable defensive PI call at the end of the 1st quarter, it’s a different ball game.
James Anderson, Charles Johnson, Sherrod Martin were all making outstanding plays out there.
For me this was such a disappointing loss. We all wanted to see a win, and to have that game slip through our fingers is a tough one to take, not only for us, but I am 100% sure the team feels even worse. I am very happy to see though the team is still fighting given the position they are in.
Clausen, while he didn’t have a great completion % made pretty sound decisions; the only thing he did that was uber risky was that INT saving grab by Jeff King on the eventual D Will TD drive. But Clausen having a turnover free game was a huge step forward for him. After settling down, I realize we are in a better position despite the tough loss. We won’t score many points this year, and I think the D understands that if they can hold teams to around 20 points or so, the offense will try (key word is try) to keep up on the scoreboard. But Clausen was definitely playing well yesterday, and hopefully this will do wonders for his confidence.
Speaking of the D, I hope they saw that bears game last night. If Meeks can get this D on the same page, we could have a break out game in terms of sacks on either cutler or collins (whoever may be starting).
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Whats ticking me off at the moment is...
that we are blaming this 0-4 start on being a young team, rookie QB, rookie WRs etc…yet the past two weeks those rookies have been close to putting us in a position to win but its been the vets who have let us down. A supposed veteran offensive line is getting toasted…
That is coaching my friends
I really haven’t been blaming the rookies myself. I personally felt that Fox kinda mailed it in this season and of course nothing else needs to be said of jeff davidson. I feel that Meeks is the only top guy on the coaching staff who is actually doing his job and doing it very well considering the position his Defense is constantly in.
Good points though Jaxon.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
by Ivan459 on Oct 4, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Talent too
Mac-Bern and Schwartz are hot garbage.
It makes me wonder what the coaching staff were seeing in training camp to assure them the right side of the line was going to be fine without Otah.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
They thought (or more likely hoped) Otah would be back next year.
and MacBern did play much better last year when he was filling in.
Given we face them, and it's fun to laugh...
Peter King did a curious comparison between Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler in his article today based on a 20 game sample.
QB W-L Pct. Yards TD-Int Yards per att. Rating
Orton 10-9 .634 5,221 27-15 7.29 89.1
Cutler 10-10 .615 4,578 33-29 6.97 80.7
Seems like the Bears have a complete inability to evaluate the talent they have.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yup
And we haven’t even begun to talk about Cedric Benson, or that Moose was terrible there and got better again here, or that Hitman is on pace for 56 tackles… four less than he had last season for us in 13 games.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I'm just glad
Peppers isn’t doing so hot with the Bears. He’s a beast, but I’d rather players with heart and moderate talent than a freak of nature with little to no heart.
Superbowl Champs 2010!!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Oct 4, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't watch that game last night
for all the Peppers worshiping that was going on. I had to turn it
But he had his typical 3 tackles, 1 sack and a FF.
what is weird is that they went on and on about the guy. Yet in the few games we had in the national spotlight he wasn’t mentioned that much at all.
Just because he is a bear he is a superstar now?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
they have tradition, don't know you. {end sarcasm}
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
*don't you know.
FAIL
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
It's the system Denver run. It makes mediocre QBs look great.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
The guy still has to make the throws regardless
Nobody holds it against Joe Montana or Steve Young that the West Coast makes a QB look better.
Right now Orton is leading the NFL in passing yards and completing 67.4% of his passes.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
He's still a mediocre QB.
It’s just a great system and fantastic coaching. They don’t ask him to do things he’s not comfortable with.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
could be something in the water at Purdue Univ.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Orton was held back in Chicago
He excelled in the 1st year as starter. Then the bonehead CHI staff insisted on playing Grossman, instead of the proven winner Orton.
Yup
For the record: I’m not saying Orton will be as good as Drew Brees, but I’m not ready to write him off as ‘mediocre’ given what we’ve seen from him last year and the first four weeks of this year.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
David Clowney is getting cut by the Jets today
Yet another in the long list of receivers I would cut Dwayne Jarrett for in a second
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yea
I seriously thought he could turn himself around if he was given a bigger role in the offense, but man does he suck!!! Honestly why don’t we give Marvin Harrison a call, he could probably get more separation than Jarrett!
Superbowl Champs 2010!!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Oct 4, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Harrison is good at getting separation from a police investigation, thats for sure.
Speaking of which: How did that whole ‘Sean Payton taking painkillers’ thing get swept under the rug?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I think
They just ignored it just because they won the superbowl and the media are all up the saints backside right now.
Superbowl Champs 2010!!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Oct 4, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL at the Harrison line...
And I’ve wondered the same thing about the Vicodin incident… curious for sure.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
we couldnt possibly tarnish the reputation of any public figure...
who had to endure the gulf oil spill. or Katrina.
They are above the law for the next 10 years.
…pfft…
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I'd LOVE to get Clowney back.
Oh, did I say back? Nevermind, that was Madden.
But seriously, I’d love to cut Jarrett/sign Clowney.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
+1
He looked decent when Favre was throwing to him. I see no way on earth that he could be less productive than Jarrett.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Sadly, you are correct.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
My chief concern is whether or not Sherrod Martin will make it back or not.
Steve Smith I’m not as concerned about because his return is a given. We all know/love Steve Smith. Nothing is going to keep him from making it back in Week 7, you can count on that right now.
I’m more worried about Sherrod Martin and his concussion right now. He’s been tremendous for us this off-season. I can’t remember the last time the other team threw to his side of the field. I hope my bro makes it back.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Yup.
Per Darin Gantt on Twitter.
http://twitter.com/daringantt/status/26324945532
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
good post
We are improving every game. And at this point I think That’s all we can ask. I can’t wait for next Sunday. My first game of this season!! The Panthers will get their first win.
by blue2 on Oct 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If Jordan Gross can pancake Julius Peppers into next week I’ll be a happy man
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
he'll line up on MacBern/Scwartz
He knows Gross will own him and he wants to prove a point to Panthers mgmt., so he will slide to the other side and destroy our incapable right side of the line.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
This is Pep we're talking about...
He SHOULD be able to destroy Schwartz… but if there’s one thing Mr. Peppers taught me it’s that he can make the most inept OT look like a pro bowler.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
We'll just sick King or Rosario on him
then commentators can wax poetic about about Peppers “demanding a double team” and how he’s “so disruptive” to our blocking scheme. Meanwhile, Jimmy will “light up their secondary,” Williams will “run right past Peppers before he can get off the block,” and we will very easily “win the game.”
by Newsinz on Oct 4, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe you’d prefer to get your news from someone who doesn’t eat their own dandruff!
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
CAROLINA's D vs. BEARS's O
If the Bears special teams dont score, i think a shut out could be possible? To optimistic?
Yes, a shut out is too optimistic, and I can tell you why in two words.
Devin Hester
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
But that was Highlander's point, right?
IF the Bears special teams don’t score (which means Hester doesn’t run one back on us), then would the Bears offense be able to get any points on our D? Sure would be a helluva way to finally break into the win column.
57-0 would be nice..
Clausen throws 4 touchdowns, D-Will & Stew combine for 3 more, Hardy gets a sack/safety, the rest are field goals.. And that’s just half time damnit.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
by D-Ranged1 on Oct 4, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL! Deja vu! Now I remember what's missing from the equation of our late run last season...
“The D-Ranged1 Technique of Reverse Psychology Sports Prognostication”
you need to break it out for next week…especially since we’re facing DA BEARS.
HAHA!
That’s right, I had forgotten all about that! Shame on me! It’s my fault that we’re 0-4 guys, I forgot to bet against Carolina each week.
Let me knock the dust off… here we go… official prediction…..
Carolina 3 – Chicago 158
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Hester will run one back on ST is what I'm saying
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
He’s had one in the last three years and you’re banking on it?
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
James,
Did Jarret get left off the Extremely Pessimistic list because you’re not pessimistic on him or is it because it’s impossible to be pessimistic about something that is actually horrid?
He should be considered "Perennially Pessimistic"
I’m hoping if I just don’t talk about him he’ll get cut like he should have been weeks ago.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Sadly knowing this coaching staff...
If Smith is out for any given period of time, they will be less likely to cut Jarret and bring in a vet than ever.
If he doesn't play yet again this week and Edwards does...
wonder what his excuse will be then? Just yet another one of those ‘situations’? I mean THREE rookies are getting more PT than you and you still think the coaching staff thinks you can play?
But hey, I’d still collect those checks if I was him. If they are stupid enough to keep paying you for nothing.
I wouldn't be surprised at this point if that happened.
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
I would like to sign a vet
for mentoring purposes rather than performance reasons. Sure it would be nice to have a experienced guy on the field but our chances at this point are slim to none and these young receivers could use a good mentor.
And yes, I don’t believe smith is a great mentor. A great receiver most definitely but not a mentor.
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
Why not hire Muhammad as an assistant.
I think he’d be a fine coach/mentor to our young guys.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I'm not convinced...
It wasn’t Moose who mentored Smith into the WR he is today. That credit goes to Proehl, and we haven’t had a WR quite like him ever since. That’s the kinda guy who we need for a mentor.
I agree. Wasn’t Moose supposed to mentor Jarrett into becoming his heir?
How well has that worked out so far?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Pardon my language, but
FUCK Dwayne Jarrett!!! I’m not about to hang his sorry ass career on anyone other than himself. He hasn’t taken advantage of any opportunity he’s been given, be it coaching, mentoring, playing time, etc. He’s a bust….period.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Yeah he is a pure bust. But I would have thought that Moose would have been able to talk something into him. That has always been a question I have had of the both of them. What the hell happened with that?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Jarrett sucks, that's what the hell happened.
I don’t care how much you talk to someone, it’s not going to make them better if they don’t care. It also isn’t going to help if they don’t have the talent.. Jarrett either can’t do it or he doesn’t give a shit. Either way, it’s 100% on him at this point.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I really want to put a big red warning block on the top banner of this site that says:
DO NOT DISCUSS DWAYNE JARRETT. HE IS DEAD TO US AND THE PANTHERS…MOVE ON
Oh...and...
NO MENTIONING FREE AGENT PICK-UPS…ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SO STOP WASTING THE ELECTRONS DISCUSSING IT!
But I’m not going to do that…
Oh... and..
NO MENTIONING THAT ARMANTI EDWARDS SHOULD BE A STARTING QB!
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I think Clausen silenced that debate this weekend.
Or at least I hope that posting better QB ratings than Carson Palmer and Drew Brees would…
Don't get me started, James.
You know damn well that Armanti Edwards is undoubtedly, absolutely, 100%, the best QB that has ever, or ever will be, born in the multi-verse. Period.
You know it. I know it. The American people know it.
I know how to create scrolling banners in html code if it helps.
Just say the word.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I should add
I didn’t mean to mentor Jarrett (imo, he’s a lost cause), but for the other young WR a good mentor would be great.
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
Proehl was very helpful too.
I just know that Muhsin has been thru a lot in his career since 2003. Hell, bring in both of them. I think Ricky lives in Greensboro now.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
You know damn right well I wasn't suggesting we bring him in to play.
We were discussing mentoring, were we not?
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Hmm...
See, I was thinking more along the lines of bringing in a veteran WR to play who could mentor people. I guess you were thinking more along the lines of just pure mentoring?
Lol........
Yea, we weren’t on the same page there. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m definitely on board with bringing in someone that can play too. I’m just not sure who we could get at this point.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Ricky does
I’ve had the opportunity to meet him a half dozen or so times in the last 5 years. Super nice guy, family man and still keeps up with the Panthers so he can always talk about what he is seeing on the team.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
That's cool James.
I always admired Ricky. Seemed like a great guy. Glad to know he is.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I think this season should be considered
The Education of Mr Clausen. I dont’t expect to win now, but if Jimmie can come through the crucible intact, we will be better in the future for it.
It's sad to see 89 go down..
No one else on the O side seems to have any passion…too bad we couldn’t get the Beast on the O team just to whip some fire into them.
While much of the focus here is on the offenses' failed 4-minute drill at the end,
the defensive play was underwhelming all game long. They gave up almost 400 yards of offense, couldn’t stop the run, gave up 27 first downs, and the Saints converted 8/14 third downs. Those numbers are all hideous.
If not for the two red-zone turnovers, that last drive would have just been another desperate attempt to make the score look respectable. As it was, the offense had a chance to win it, but couldn’t get out of their own way.
Its bad when the defense gets them into 3rd and 9, and you are catching up on the DVR, yet you decide to skip forward to the next play to avoid the frustration of watching Drew Brees hit a wide-open TE in the middle of our cover-2 for 11 yards. I sit there and say, “there is a 100% chance that they pick up this first down.” And sure enough, 8 times they did.
Until the defense can get some pass-rush, they will never get teams off the field. They are not helping this struggling offense as some suggest. They are certainly not carrying them, as some even suggest. Carrying them to what? 0-4?
Some of you try to hide from the fact that we do not have a legit pass rusher. Your hatred for Peppers blinds some of you from the hard truth. And that is that the defensive line is not affecting the opposing QBs much at all. Until they do, we will remain win-less.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
It is what it is...
I think most people are focusing on the positives from yesterday because our pass rush isn’t manifesting and there’s no point on dwelling on it. Yesterday was a marked improvement over the last 3 weeks and to deny that isn’t doing them justice. We had some very opportunistic plays, but we also forced those plays to manifest. You can’t take that out of the equation. However, as many people have pointed out the inability to get off the field is an on-going issue. It was a problem against Cincy last week as well. The inability to score points off turnovers is another problem. Our inability to convert on 3rd down is a problem.
But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a great improvement this week. That’s what people are focusing on.
We all know the D line isn’t doing much at all in terms of pass rushing. An yes I myself have wondered if Peppers were here would we be doing better on the line, and the answer would probably be yes.
However I think your idea of “hatred” against him is wrong. There was nothing, and I mean nothing that any of us could have done to keep him here. Hell, Hurney offered to make him the highest paid DE ever if I am not mistaken. Many of us have a disdain for him because this is the team he played with for man many years. We all enjoyed and hated his play at times, but he was a hometown kid per say, and we all expected him to stay here until he retired.
Instead we were all thrown to the wind when he decided not to stay here. With a small mind and an overbearing agent who made all the decisions for him, he decided he need to progress his skills someplace else. We all felt betrayed by this. It was not, WAS NEVER, a money issue. For someone like him to leave this place the way he did will garner many to resent you. Many don’t have blind hatred for him, but many have disdain over the way he abandoned this team, the team who drafted him and the team in his home state.
For that, many people have turned on him, and unfortunately yes, that will be his legacy here. The great julius peppers: the guy who ditched his home state team for a chance at “stardom”, something he already had.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
This idea that "homegrown athletes" need to stay is ridiculous...
You can’t fault someone for wanting to leave, wanting a change, wanting something different. I don’t quite understand all the negativity surrounding Peppers’s departure. People are playing the victim, saying he betrayed us and all that. It’s just like LeBron James not wanting to stay in Cleveland (and if you haven’t guessed, I don’t fault him for leaving either).
My advice..? Get over it already.
It's not what you do, it's how you do it.
I don’t fault Peppers for leaving, wanting a change of scenery, or just plain wanting more money… I do, however, slight him for the classless manor in which he left, same as LeBron.
I retained nothing but love for Moose when he went to Chi-Town, and I hold no grudge for Will Witherpoon wanting to go where the money was… but for Peppers to not only leave, but construct some ridiculous scene of him being stalked on Lake Norman and continually portraying the Panthers organization in a negative light isn’t something we’ve seen before.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
To me it's just business
I guess I don’t take it personally when someone wants to go somewhere else.
Do you slight Moose for taking shots at the Chicago Bears?
They're not my team
I certainly would if I was a Bears fan.
Like I said, it’s not about just wanting to go somewhere else, it’s about burning the bridge when you leave and treating the fans who cheered you on and bought your jersey like trash.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I don't see it that way
I’m not saying that Peppers did things in the best of ways, but I don’t think that’s how he meant it. I’m sure he probably holds something against the organization, but to carry his attitude toward the organization over to the fans is a stretch in my opinion.
Quotes by the man himself:
“I’m out here in Chicago and there’s just a lot of love,‘’ Peppers yells over the blaring music. "I think back in Charlotte, I had been there so long that everybody got used to me. I mean, I got attention there and all that. But out here in Chicago, it feels a lot more genuine.’’
“Truth be told, that’s really one of the small reasons that I wanted to get out; because everybody knows your business in Charlotte,’’
“I live on a small town on the lake, and I mean people would get on their jet skis and just post up in front of my crib, trying to see who was there in my house.’’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
whoa, not saying this is me here. Just trying to point out a different point of view ace. All I am saying is his departure to chicago was a hypocritical move. The guy al throughout his career disliked being in the public eye, and never wanted to be a “spotlight player”. Now he moves to chicago and has suddenly taken on the role?
Either the guy isn’t very smart and lets his agent tell him what to do all the time, or he is a lot smarter than I think he is and he lies about a lot of things to get his way.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Ok. Just many things happened in that debacle, and only time will tell who won on this deal (Panthers for letting him walk and allowing young guys to play or peppers helping chicago win a super bowl or something of that nature).
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
If not for the defense, we're not even in the game.
We need to protect the QB better and for the offense to get more first downs.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I see your point
But what really soured me on the defense was giving up an 18 play, 86 yard drive before the Saints final field goal. You can’t allow Brees to nickel and dime you all the way down the field. At some point you have to go after him. Bending is fine, but bending and breaking is not. I’d rather not bend but break, if that makes any sense at all.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you brother.
That’s what I dislike the most about the Tampa 2 scheme.
All in all though, I think the defense has played fairly well. If our offense can increase their TOP and give the defense a rest, I think we will begin to manufacture some pressure from somewhere. Yesterday, it looked to me like the Saints O-line did an excellent job picking up whatever we brought.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
We need to quit running it.
It leaves so many holes in our defense and it allows the elite QB’s of the league to really just pick us apart at any given time. However, the defense has been playing tremendous all year. I don’t see how, but that unit has really pulled together.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
To hold the Saints to 16 points the D did its job
regardless of the last drive. Holding them to a FG with time remaining to drive was huge and the best we could have really expected outside of some huge blunder by the Saints
HIRE JIM HARBOUGH!!!
I used to be a huge Fox supporter but the fact that its pretty clear he has already mailed it in has really turned me off. He seems like he doesn’t even care about this team. I’ve lost a lot of respect for Foxy, seems like we are just totally unprepared each week, at least with our offensive game plan. I’m ready for JD to be fired as well. I honestly think he is the most incompetent play-caller in the league. We are the only team that can’t seem to get its play-makers more involved. Not to mention the awful situational play calling:
3rd and 4 yesterday: Empty backfield, 4 wideouts. Sends all 4 wideouts on deep routes. Explain that to me. A long developing play, without more blocking, and the saints were clearly blitzing on the play.
Not to mention, every time we ran the ball, we motioned a receiver in to block. What apparently Jeff Davidson doesn’t realize is that having 10/11 offensive players inside the hash marks, also bring 9/11 defensive players into the box. It makes it both very difficult to block, and even if the blocking is executed, it results in a total log jam of bodies that makes it very hard to run. Maybe we should try SPREADING OUT THE FORMATION and running to get more bodies out of there to let DeAngelo and Jstew have some room to work. JD is incompetent and a total dumbass. I honestly think I could call the games better than he does.
BTW. Jimmy needs to work on selling the play-action a little more. I’m excited about the way he played, but he doesn’t sell the run fake at all.
Lastly, can someone explain to me play-action calls on third and long? I don’t think they are gonna fall for that…
My 2 cents (Rebuilding Year)
Anytime you let go of a lot of veterans and bring in a lot of unproven, albeit talented young players, it will be a season of rebuilding. One must look for incremental improvement. Anyone out there who thought this season was going to be a 12-4 regular season cakewalk to the Super Bowl was being unrealistic (delusional). That said, I like a lot of the moves, and think week after week, this team will continue to get better. Keep supporting the team, and who knows, we might get lucky too. Sometimes, lucky is better than good. I do hope one or two of the receivers steps up this week.
Peppers will probably not be taking his usual plays off since he’ll be motivated to stick it to his old team. It’s just a shame he couldn’t play motivated week in and week out for the Panthers when he was here.
Yes, I am looking forward to teh new coaching staff next year. Fox has grown stale.
Go Panthers!
Such a terrible way to lose.
Clausen loves to stare down Gettis like he is the second coming of Jerry Rice. They both look decent, but haven’t looked like franchise cornerstones so far. Gamble needs to be the one we trade for some value, not Steve or D’angelo. I think our defense is still pretty stout though. Captain Munnerlyn’s name continues to give me the shivers. Uh………Goodson looks like our new permanent return specialist,….uh……I’m trying to think of something else I was going to say………uh…..it really all starts and ends with our running game, which starts and ends with our offensive line. They are going to have to get healthy for us to have a shot at winning some games. However, like you, I’m a little more optimistic about our future after watching us yesterday. We have the youngest team in the league and tons of cap room to work with after the “lockout”. However, this season is still a wrap. And I think it’s the year we see Smitty get traded as John Fox’ last “F U” before he goes to coach thte Giants.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
I think it’s the year we see Smitty get traded as John Fox’ last "F U" before he goes to coach thte Giants.
If Smith is traded it wont be because of Fox. Fox has no power on those matters- that ball is 100% in Marty Hurney’s court.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Fox and Hurney are one in the same.
So is Jake Delhomme. They are the three headed monster. Either Fox and Hurney follows him to Cleveland or Jake follows Fox and Hurney to New York. Trust me.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll believe it when I see it.
Nothing indicates that to be the case.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Lol. There's plenty to indicate that's the case.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Such as?
Is there a single piece of evidence that indicates Marty Hurney will be fired? Because every single writer says otherwise.
So you can ‘lol’ all you want, but to me these are the same ridiculous ramblings like ‘Jake Delhomme is dating John Fox’s daughter and that’s why he’s never benched’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
It’s funny that there’s plenty of evidence but he bothered to list not even one to support his comment.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Lol, yall are in the business of acting like hoes today I see.
Why so damn serious? Please chill the hell out. And as for evidence, I’m looking at the fact that Mike Holmgrem didn’t fire Mangini in his first year and gave him another chance. Several people have speculated about Fox going to Cleveland. So, there ya go. OBVIOUSLY, there is no SOLID EVIDENCE on a damn rumor, so stop asking for some. That’s just like you tellilng me John Fox WON’T be fired because you didn’t read it somewhere. Please fall back. I’m a grown man. I don’t get into internet beefs.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, what the hell ever.
Grow up. This is a damn comment board. Didn’t know yall took everything as 100% fact.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Your entitled to your opinion
just make it clear that’s what it is. You suggested there was some other evidence to indicate Hurney was on his way out. We are not hearing that at all. Hurney got a new contract from what I remember, they just are not obligated to discuss it.
Internet beefs?
Sounds like you’re the one reading too far into it. It seems like common sense, to me, that if you’re going to engage in discussion, you should have more than a one liner in response to prove your point. Isn’t that why you’re here? For discussion and debate?
I’m not talking about where Fox is going after Carolina. I was referring to the “one in the same” comment. If that were the case, shouldn’t all three have been gone in the off season? They’re hardly one in the same, in my opinion, and you’ve given me no reasons to believe yours, which is all that was asked for in the first place.
Anyways, if all you’re going to tell me to do is “grow up” and “fall back” I guess there’s nothing to gain from this discussion.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Martey Hurney's nephew I assume.
Yeah, fall back. Not getting into no dumb shit with you.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Trolling who?
Did you speak to me first or did I speak to you? This went from someone “correcting” me on some obvious shit about “who makes the roster moves” to me needing to have 100% total evidence of a move in the NFL for me to comment on it. If anything, yall are on my nuts trolling me. If I didn’t say anything to you in particular, I’m obvious not tallking to you. Get it?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an open internet forum for all to see and respond. All that has been asked of you is to lead us in the direction as to why you believe Hurney will be fired. Instead of that, you’ve taken offense and just resort to insulting others.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
I sound see why you bother man.
This man is more D-ranged than you are, and that’s saying something.
He’s either a troll, or a spin-off of more childish forums that has just recently made his way here. Personally, I find it hard to argue with someone that counters facts and arguments with “LOL! U ON MY NUTS TROLLING ME! LOL!”
He’s a-cruising for a banning.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Ugh, another one huh. Whatever. I'm not getting into this with yall. People resonding to my comments
ABOUT THE TEAM and then trying to turn me into a troll for not agreeing with yall. Lol. Grow up man. Yall are absolutely ridiculous.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don't want to 'get into this' with us, then why are you still here?
It’s obvious what you’re doing. What you’ve done and what you haven’t done. See, I have this magical ability to read. It’s not that hard.
Let’s re-cap what you’ve said.
Lol, yall are in the business of acting like hoes today I see.
Lol, what the hell ever.
Grow up.
f anything, yall are on my nuts trolling me. If I didn’t say anything to you in particular, I’m obvious not tallking to you. Get it?
I’ve had enough of your disingenuous assertions.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Why don't you go back to before that when all of yall jumped on
my nuts for saying Fox and Hurney are one in the same? You just immediately came at me without me saying anything to you. So why are you talking to me? Explain that much at least.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
dude ... no one is jumping on you
We’re simply asking you to do one simple thing: prove your point.
You have shown your grand incapability to do this, so you resort to attacking everyone who says anything to you. It’s the definition of what we on here like to call a troll.
If you don’t want to be treated as such, don’t give people the reason to do so.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
You're seeing everything one sided though because of your prior affiliation to these characters.
When I say John Fox, Jake Delhomme, and Martey Hurney are all made for eachother, is that a reason for someone to jump all on my case talking about “point to one piece of evidence that says they will be together next year”? And when I laugh it off as saying there is plenty of evidence to suggest they are made for eachother, is that reason for a person to sit there and be like “lol all you want but I’m tired of this Hurney/Fox/Delhomme” stuff. THAT IS ATTACKING SOMEONE. Ok, so then, how about when someone else jumps in on it talking about “it’s funny he can say all of this but then not back it up”? Where does that come from? Like I say, yall got everything twisted because yall are wanting to argue with people when there is really nothing to argue about. And when I tell the first two that opened their mouth to raise up off my nuts, instead of seeing what I’m talking about, everyone wants to assume I’m the troll because I said raise up off my nuts. I didn’t come in here saying Panthers are garbage or trying to start anything with anybody. Read from the beginning. You’ll see that people jumped on me for absolutely no reason other than they were sensitive to me saying something about Hurney.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
But like I say, I'm a grown man
and don’t really get into arguing with people over the internet so I’m dropping it. If anyone feels like I’m “trolling” or what not then I would apologize. But if people fail to realize where I’m coming from or why I would feel disrespected by the comments aimed at me then they aren’t really trying to because the proof is in the pudding.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
BECAUSE THE ROSTER LOOKS LIKE CRAP. THAT'S MY REASON.
I haven’t insulted not one damn person. What are you talking about? Go read the comments and see who came at who first. Just because I said “Fox and Hurney are one in the same” people want to jump down my throat about it. I don’t give a damn. Every since that trio of Fox, Delhomme, and Hurney got together I’ve been saying there was a secret love affair with them. In real life, on the internet, everywhere. And I know for damn sure I haven’t been the only one saying it. I guess maybe yall have heard it “too much” on this site or whatever and now take offense to it, BUT I RARELY EVER POST HERE. So when someone jumps on my d i c k after me saying an off the wall comment like “they will be re-united again one day in Cleveland or New York”, then I’m going to respond to them like a grown man would. All these damn trade rumors and wishes and all of that and no one speaks on them. Soon as I say “Hurney and Fox” are made for eachother, it turns into me needing 100% evidence of it happening to say it. What the f ever.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh reeeeaaally?
I haven’t insulted not one damn person.
To me:
Grow up.
Not sure what you qualify as an insult, but pretty sure that does. But, couple that with your general lack of respect for the rest of the people on here and a fairly condescending tone toward anyone who has disagreed and offered counter points to your “evidence” and I think we can pretty easily classify you as a troll…
Says the person who says I was instigating for making
a statement that “Fox and Hurney” are one in the same, something countless of other people feel as well. Yes, sure, that’s instigating. Whatever.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. I'm going to feel how I'm feeling about this
and you all are going to feel how you feel. I’m going to continue doing what I came here to do before the unprovoked attack, which is talking about the team. So, we’ll leave it at that.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You're confused.
Attacking what you say is not attacking you. No one started ripping on you personally until you began lashing out at just about everyone else.
You're still not understanding,
but ok. I’m just going to leave it at that.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, chill dude, take some Pepto Bismol or something. Why so ancy?
I don’t give a damn about what a writer says. Regardless of if he is fired or not, the roster looks like crap right now, and I, as a fan, think he deserves to be canned along with Fox. Or is that wrong for me to have an opinion on it? As far as him Fox ending up in NY or Cleveland, SEVERAL of your writers have speculated about that going back to last year and common sense allows me to speculate on it as well. And there is no other reason I can think of the Panthers sticking with Jake for so long and giving him a huge extension after that playoff meltdown other than something going on behind the scenes. But, to each their own. Including me.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
How about you google "Martey Hurney fired"
so you read about the “Martey Hurney and John Fox should be fired thread”. Apparently, I’m not the only one that feels this way.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You also get 185,000 results if you Google ‘Lizard people rule the world’
Just sayin’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
So I'm the only person in the world that wants Hurney fired?
Just sayin.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You're probably not the only person in the world...
But you are the one person on this thread who says that Hurney should be fired, yet can’t provide one scintilla of evidence to back your claim, only to get mad and call others out for pointing this out to you.
If you want Hurney fired, that’s fine. But at least provide the details as to why you do.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
So me saying the roster looks like crap right now doesn't qualify as
a reason to want Hurney fired? Ok, we’re talking about trading for Logan Mankins, yet, not one reason to trade for him was mentioned. Why? Because it’s common sense we would trade for him. Just like it should be common sense why I want Hurney fired. But, since I have to spell it out, I’ll tell you why I want him gone. I hated the way they handled the Peppers situation, getting no value for him. I hate the extension they gave Jake. I hate they have never been able to find a number two reciever. I hate the Chris Harris trade. I hate our unwillingness to sign players with character concerns. I hated we didn’t trade for Vick even though he said he wanted to play here. I hate the drafts. GOD I hate the drafts. All the way from Armanti Edwards and Everette Brown to Stefan Lefors and Eric Shelton. Uh……do I have to really keep going? No one feels the same as me? I’ve never seen so much Hurney support. I’m not saying everyone should feel the way I do, but c’mon. Let’s be real here.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Our "crap" roster:
Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil, Jeff Otah, Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, James Anderson, Dan Connor, Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall, Sherrod Martin, Charles Godfrey.
Only positions without Pro-Bowl talent: QB (Rookie) and Defensive Line (I’ll give you that). You could make the case that our secondary doesn’t have pro-bowl talent, but Gamble and Marshall are solid CBs and Godfrey leads the league in INTs while Martin forced a fumble. They also one of the best passing offenses to 1 TD yesterday. I’m willing to bet that all of these guys would be starting for other teams if they weren’t playing here.
I think Gamble is at the point where he is overratted.
Richard Marshall and Sherrod Martin should both be nickel backs. James Anderson is a surprise right now. But, the offensive line and linebacking core is pretty good. I’ll give them that. My beef isn’t really with the defense though. It’s just with QB and the recieving corp. Oh, and I don’t sell the line short either on defense. They don’t have big names, but they get the job done.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He can move between positions.
We’ve used him at corner at times. But I’ll admit, Martin was out there laying the wood yesterday. Didn’t he get hurt though?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They tried him at CB when we first got him, and they found out he was much better at safety.
Also, we have a very good nickel already in Captain Munnerlyn.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Captain Munnerlyn is garbage.
I want RMJR back.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he’s not.
As for Ricky, he’s out of the league for a reason.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And most of those guys Hurney drafted, amusingly enough.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Peppers himself ruined any chance of getting value for him, and Vick sucks.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
We should've gotten rid of Peppers two years ago when he first started pulling his crap.
And Vick may not be the greatest passer, but he’d still be better than anything on our roster. At that time, we didn’t even have Jimmy Clausen. It was just Matt Moore, Jake, and Cantwell I believe. Vick would’ve been an upgrade.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Of what? Peppers?
Like I say, he was crying like a hoe two years ago to leave and we kept him against his wishes. Kept him another year paying over a million a game only for him to leave us with no compensation. In the end, Peppers pulled the strings, but we should’ve gotten at the very least a draft pick for him. As for the QB spot, that’s just an opinion thing. A lot of people like to say “Vick sucks” for whatever reason by the people in Philadelphia don’t agree.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i think 3rd rounders are as high as the compensatory picks go....
but it should most definitely be a 3rd.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
How did that happen? He wasn't an UFA?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
compensatory picks
are awarded to teams that lost more free agents than they gained the previous year.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Oh. Compensatory picks. Psshhhh.
I thought you were saying we got picks from the Bears.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there are a lot of things to like about Marty Hurney.
Julius Peppers wouldn’t sign his franchise tag until after training camp. That’s why we couldn’t trade him. I think the better question to ask would be why didn’t he sign his tag? Was he just lazy, or did he just want the big money? Vick sucks, or that was everyone’s opinion of him until he came out of nowhere in this year.
Also, the drafts aren’t as bad as you say. Just look at the first round for instance. Since 2001, these are the first round picks taken under Hurney.
2001: Dan Morgan
2002: Julius Peppers
2003: Jordan Gross
2004: Chris Gamble
2005: Thomas Davis
2006: DeAngelo Williams
2007: Jon Beason
2008: Jonathan Stewart
Not only that, but he had the foresight to realize that if Matt Moore imploded, we wouldn’t have anyone to step up and make plays. So he picked Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd round of this draft in spite of all the fans forgetting about him and praying for a DT.
He’s done some good things for us in his time here. It’s his responsibility to provide the Panthers with talent, and he’s done that. In spite of our offensive struggles, our defense is Top 10 in the nation ((Even though the talking heads on ESPN won’t admit it till we start winning.))
I would say in spite of the Armanti Edwards trade, which I disagreed with, we probably had the 2nd best draft in our history this last draft. The headliner is Jimmy Clausen, but we found potential starters in Greg Hardy and Davin Gettis in the later rounds.
Finally, I would ask you to remember that our owner is the headchairman of the NFL negotiations on the CBA with the Players Union. They are trying to reduce the Salary cap by 20%, which would force all of the NFL teams to cut players as a rapid rate in a race to get under it. Marty Hurney’s hands have been probably tied by the man pulling the strings above.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
That last paragraph is why I give them a pass
right now. I absolutely want FOX gone. Hurney can stay. I really don’t think he’s THAT BAD. I just figured he’d leave with his “boyfriend” (I’m sorry if that offended anyone). But if Hurney left too, it wouldn’t bother me because maybe we would then have the guts to go out and get some of these good free agents that we always seem to pass on. But, that’s probably more Richardson than Hurney saying no to those guys. I just think we need a shake up all the way from the top down.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, you're not alone in wanting Fox gone.
I want a complete revamp of the coaching staff, especially Fox and Davidson.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
It's easy to talk about the guys we want gone. I'd prefer to talk about the guys I want to keep, since they are fewer.
I like our defensive coordinator Ron Meaks and his new scheme. I must admit, I was an extreme critic of the Tampa 2 scheme when it was coming in. I pointed to the highly undersized defensive line of the Colts as proof that he would try to do that here. But he’s coached our defense up good and I’m happy with what they have brought to the table.
I like our WR coach Tyke Tolbert or whatever his name is. To come in this year and make a decent option out of Gettis in our depleted corps is something to be admired.
I like most of the coordinators on the defensive side of the ball. Our secondary coordinators need a look at. When I see Marshall get blown by wideouts and Godfrey constantly hanging out 15 yards behind the scrimmage, I start to shake my head. However, they should be kept overall.
Really, it’s on the offensive side of the ball where we need to go through and wipe all of the training staff out. I’ll say this till the cows come home: We have far too much talent to be sitting at 0-4 right now.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I thought our D was going to fall off when Meaks came too.
But, it’s actually almost looking as good as it was when Trgovac was our D-coordinator. We were monsters then.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 5, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Davidson has to be the first to go.
Even before Fox. His play calling is ridiculous.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 5, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for providing something for us to discuss
That’s all we’ve asked you for. You can’t assume that something is obvious when it’s not, because the reasons you provide for wanting Hurney gone are far from obvious.
You’re one of the few people I’ve encountered who want Hurney gone, and though I respect your opinion, I disagree with you.
I’ll tell you why I think he should stay.
Jon Beason
Ryan Kalil
Jeff Otah
Jonathan Stewart
DeAngelo Williams
Those are just 5 picks that Hurney made. He also drafted Munnerlyn, Gamble, Davis, Godfrey, etc. Granted, he also drafted Eric Shelton, Stefan LefFors, and Dwayne Jarrett, but I’d say the good definitely outweighs the bad when it comes to Hurney and the draft.
I agree with you that it was a mistake not getting a veteran WR, but that’s more on JR not wanting to spend any money than it is Hurney. Also, there’s no way that we would have ever signed Vick, because of his character issues (his inability to play the QB position in our style of offense is another debate for another day).
As for the Peppers situation, he made his own bed when he made up the crap about the organization not caring about him, when Hurney offered to make him the highest paid defensive lineman in football after the 2007 season (the season where he posted a whopping 2.5 sacks, btw).
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Sure you can have an opinion… you know what people say about those and what everyone else also has. Doesn’t mean I’m going to ‘trust you’.
I’m just growing weary of these Fox/Hurney/Delhomme conspiracy theories like they’re running NFL teams from the shadows in some fiendish plot to run the NFL.
So let’s pretend for a second your scenario is accurate.
Who’s getting fired? Tom Heckert in Cleveland who Mike Holmgren has all the faith in and just hired him or Jerry Reese in New York who’s regarded as formulating the best drafts in the Giants last decade?
None of it adds up
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
You're obviously a close friend or family member of Martey Hurney
so I’m not even going to get into this any further.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it requires nepotism to use logic.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 4, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
wow. just wow.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Ad hominem ... keeping people with no argument in the conversation since 1789.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I'm the troll, but who keeps making comments?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol.
Are you serious?
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Um, that would be you, chief.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Uh, actually, those last 4 replies were to something I said.
But, like I say, I’m not arguing with you guys. There’s no reason to. I just respond a certain way when someone tries to get smart with me saying “you can lol all you want” and things like that. Yall might not take that as disrespect, but where I come from, I do.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
As someone who just stepped into this thread, it sure looks like you’re arguing to me…
However, Marty stays. Fox goes.
Arguing with who?
How am I arguing with someone when I have to tell a person “chill” for taking my comment so serious. Like I said, don’t come at me be dead serious talking about “ridiculous ramblings” and “lol all you want” when it’s apparent I’m only being half serious when I’m saying Fox, Jake, and Hurney will end up together again one day. Everyone hears the shot, but no one sees the slap. But, like I say, whatever. You’re just another person replying to me about this after I’ve been said I’m dropping it. Now watch I get blamed for replying to you. Smh.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 5, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
In a 4WR set (or 5 as they used once), it might serve Clausen well if he weren't to look solely at one receiver.
Okay, if you KNOW you’re going to target Gettis (or whomever), make a point of taking at least 1/2 a second to stare the OTHER way, before going where you intend to all along.
I know he’s not at the stage (like PManning, or Brees) where he can accurately survey the field before committing to a receiver that’s actually OPEN, but in the meantime, as he’s developing those skills, use just a little deception, to make it harder for the DBs to see where you’re going with the ball.
Clausen just needs time to learn to play like a real QB.
His skills are there. It’s just going to take time. And I just can’t figure out why Gettis is his primary target over Steve. They must have a super connection in practice or something.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure Smitty is getting doubled every play
Who else do defenses have to fear running around in their secondary? Our 2nd and 3rd leading receivers are RBs and TEs. Not exactly inspiring confidence.
Smitty might be getting doubled,
but Clausen doesn’t even look at him most of the time to see if it’s the case or not. When I say he’s been staring down Gettis, trust me, it’s the real stare down. I mean looking at him from start to finish. We had Rosario matched up with a linebacker wide open on a play Sunday. Clausen never seen him. Staring down Gettis again.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 5, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Signs are pointing to Cutler being out.
Juice Williams via Twitter:
Aite, talked to the Bears. Told me to be prepared and stay ready in case of injury, I’m high on the list. That’s encouraging
Oh shit… Just got a text from a coach. Woooooowwwww!!! God is so GOOD. That was quick! May have good news in the morning.
Only way he’d be told to prepare would be if Cutler couldn’t go.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Beware Todd Collins.
Wait, what?
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Just rumor for now...
But word is New England will be open to trading Logan Mankins for a 2nd round pick.
I’ve got to admit hearing that makes the Armanti Edwards pick sting just a little for the 1st time.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Best OL in the NFL... hands down
Gross/ Wharton/ Kalil/ Mankins/ Otah
It would be obscene
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
So I'm sorry if this had already been brought up...
But Jarret has been asking for a trade since after the Draft…maybe a package deal is in order?…
http://www.examiner.com/sports-in-charlotte/jarrett-admits-to-requesting-trade-frustration-and-learning-curve
In Moore we trust!!!
That's not a bad idea!
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
by package deal, do you mean a bag of footballs, or a box of shoes?
sorry, couldn’t resist.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Wow, that does sound formitable
Let’s just trade Edwards for Mankins…did I say that out loud?
So who would jump on that?
Every single day of the week
Shoot, I would considered D-Will for Mankins provided J-Stew is really okay
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I'd trade them if the Patriots accepted, but it's a null point.
Randy Moss and Wes Welker. They wouldn’t even come close to accepting.
It would take a hell of a lot of beer.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
We simply picked the guy too high.
The Armanti Edwards trade is always going to sting until he gets on the field and starts performing. Do I love the player? Yeah. I think he has the potential to be great once he re-learns how to be a good wideout. Do I think we took him too high and for too big a price? Oh hell yeah. A 2nd round pick is ALWAYS too big of a price to trade away in order to draft someone in the 3rd round.
But when you’re talking about a trade like this, you have to wonder how effective he would be if other teams continue to stack 8 and 9 players in the box.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I just don't understand the Panthers' uncanny abillity to NOT find a decent #2 reciever.
Rosario looks like the best thing we have for that spot.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes the Armanti deal suck the most is
it gives New England another 2nd round pick. It seems like every year they have 2 or 3 2nd round picks. And they wait for 1st round talent to fall to them that other teams miss on. It just makes me angry that we are giving them a top 38 pick for a player that may never develop. I sure hope he does, but it is certainly not a given that AE will one day be a top-flight NFL wideout.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm not following you Rev...
Are you asking how effective Mankins would be if teams stack 8 and 9? Probably not too much, but that isn’t going to last forever. Fortifying the line with a guy like Logan Mankins gives you a player who can play both tackle and guard at a pro-bowl level. For a line as oft injured as ours it would be a serious shot in the arm.
I wonder if they (New England) would take a 3rd in 2011 and a 3rd in 2012? We’ll already get a compensatory third for Peppers, so really the risk would be lower.
As it stands there’s a good chance we’d go OG with the 1st round pick (provided who’s there) so getting Mankins would alleviate that problem.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Was there ever a reason why
Mankins wants a trade?
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It sounds really bizarre
He wanted an extension, Robert Kraft called him out in the media. New England came to the party and offered him a contract, but now Mankins said the money offer is fine, but he wants a formal apology from Kraft for what he said to the media… it’s very strange
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Then Kraft
said there never was a deal.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
While I agree that OG is a big need,
At this point our first rounder is shaping up to be a top 6 pick, which may be a little high for an OG…unless of course the incredible hulk decides to play football.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
....
Our 1st rounder is shaping up to be a top 6 pick.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade to Vikings for 1st and 2nd
So they can get Jake Locker
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a top pick can be traded back for one of the top QB's
Not necessarily Locker now.
The Luck kid from Stanford is looking like the best QB in the land. Mallet looks good too.
Yeah. Andruw Luck.
He can run too. He looks like he’ll be pretty decent.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrew Luck scares me
I see yet another Alex Smith/ Aaron Rodgers situation brewing where the proven multi-year starter is eclipsed by the senior having a lights out year.
I still like Jake Locker.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Luck will stay another year
He has to lead Stanford to a big-bowl.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Locker better too
I think Luck is probably first round pick but I would have Locker a little higher.
I agree it's too high
I definitely see the Panthers trading back Jon Beason style and getting Mike Pouncey in the 1st and getting back a 2nd round pick.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
God.
Pouncey was terrible their first game.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
because they would turn Jarrett into a pro-bowler
and make us all miserable
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Brady/Manning/Brees
Could make anyone a pro bowler as long as they can catch.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly I'm just musing to be honest.
I do agree that Mankins would be a good trade. But for one, it’s not available to us since we traded Armanti Edwards. That’s the frustrating point. For two, our offensive line isn’t really going to get better no matter who is on the line until we get at least a sub-par passing game going that can get us back to 7 in the box.
I think your 3rd/3rd offer might interest them, but they would wait and see if they could get any better offers. You know Bill, he loves his 2nd round picks.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
He thinks Kraft lied to him about getting a fat contract after the 2009 season
He agreed to play ‘09 for under 1 million with the understanding that he would be taken care of during the offseason. It didn’t happen. Does it ever happen in NE. Has anyone other than Brady gotten a 2nd contract?
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Anyone that they drafted get a 2nd contract recently?
Wince Wilfork is the only one that I can remember without spending too much time thinking about the Pats.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
They trade away their talent alot.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Shrewd.
That’s what I think about the NE management. They are very shrewd when it comes to their dealings with players. It’s kinda the antithesis to the Panthers in that regard where we try to keep our talent in house. NE doesn’t care if they leave because they’re always looking to replace what they have.
Nope... that's why they're the Pats
Nobody is bigger than the organization, and the only guy that matters is the one of the side of their helmet.
It’s one of the many reasons it’s so easy to hate teams like New England in the NFL and San Antonio in the NBA… they seem to manage their roster effortlessly.
FYI, they have something like 17 draft picks this upcoming draft… insane
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
And they tend not to waste any picks...
They seem to throw rookies in there every year and it seems to not hurt them too much.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I chalk that up to the coach...
I hate the guy, but Bellichick is one of the best coaches in the league and truly seems to understand the game of football like very few people before him.
But losing Mankins
Doesn’t even effect them, Brady’s only been sacked twice in 3 games.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
When you’re picking 10-12 guys regularly every draft you only need to kit on 50% and you’re going to be ahead of about 90% of the league who are getting 2-3 stars in a draft if they’re lucky.
They simply draft better than anyone from scouting the small schools, to understanding what makes an NFL player, to taking calculated risks on guys who have behavioral issues… it’s just uncanny.
Only New England could get rid of perennial probowlers every year and still come out ahead. Then to make matters worse they get guys like Wes Welker and Randy Moss for 2nd and 4th round picks respectively.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yep.
Trade away players you have had for 3-5 years for more draft picks, every year.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how long it will take for them to monopolize the draft?
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
They do.
Had 12 picks this draft and the year before.
by RjTheMetalhead on Oct 4, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Good night.
There might come a day where they own half the picks in the 2nd round and still be winning the championship every other year.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
That's because New England knows when to cut ties when needed.
Like the Richard Seymour deal. Sure, he may still be able to play at a high level, but the Raiders will always suck (seems like at least) and those picks will always be high. They do a good job of keeping stocked up on valuable draft picks year after year by getting rid of the bread before a couple days before it gets too old.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Goodson make D'Angelo expendable?
I’ve seen that rumor floating around on ESPN for months. Not that Goodson was his replacement, but Williams’ contract makes him good trade bait.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions
Why would Williams' contract make him good trade bait?
I can’t think of any team that would give us good value for a 12 game rental of a future free agent.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Not for another team.
But for us. Stewart is still on his rookie deal (I think) and Goodson looks like he could fill in as Dash in the Smash n Dash tandem. They were saying the Panthers should get value on Williams and keep the cheaper option (Stewart) and hope that Goodson and that other RB we had (can’t remember his name) would step up.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The way Stewart has looked so far this year
Makes you wonder if it would be smart to have him as our only real complete back.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm cautious about Stewart.
He does a lot of dancing around when he should just be smashing people. But, until yesterday, Williams looked totally uneffective.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of that has to due with defenses stacking 8-9 players in the box every single play.
The passing game is ineffective, so that’s not going to do anything to improve it. Jeff Davidson is doing nothing but calling runs up the middle. There are more plays you can call. The RB screen. Short slant routes. The fact that we’re still using Steve Smith as a deep option instead of putting him in the slot and let him operate more as a Wes Welker to move the chains is a headscratcher on its own.
Really, all of it points back to the QB, his passing game, and the O-line. If it doesn’t start to get better, I don’t see our coaching staff making the necessary adjustments to make our offense successful.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
+1
We should use Steve just like Welker. He doesn’t need to be a deep threat every play. As a matter of fact, he’s more dangerous when catching the ball on short screen passes and then making the moves on his own. But you’re right, our weak receiving game is making our running game struggle. When it should be our running game is opening up our receiving game.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
Next time the Panthers come on, start counting the players that they stack in the box. I went to the Bengals game the Sunday before last, and you would be surprised the amount of times they put 9 in the box and we couldn’t do anything with it.
Most pass-happy coordinators would be licking their chops at the opportunity because there are just so many things you can do. But Jeff Davidson just calls a RB dive on a 2nd and 8. All you can do is facepalm.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Lol. And a draw play on the ensuing 3rd and 12.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol!
Then when we get to the goal line. Hold everything! It’s time to pass!
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
The one year left on his deal is lean...
but yeah, his trade value is way to low to consider it at this point. And usually teams that making trades during week 5 are teams that think they can make a run at a title. It doesn’t look like the Panthers have gotten out of preseason mode yet.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
All that being said:
If New England want to swap Mankins for D-Will or Green Bay would give us Greg Jennings I would think about it.
A lot hinges on Jonathan Stewart and whether he’s really healthy or if there’s some unreported issue.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yes, Stew has not looked good so far.
With the way his preseason went, it may be week 10 before he is really in football shape.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He's turned into a dancer. That would be my chief concern right there.
I still look upon him as more of a ‘’bruiser’ type of back, even though Williams and Stewart are fairly balanced. He’s looking for a hole and it’s not going to appear when there is 9 players in the box. He needs to put down his shoulder and run over people.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
No.
I think we’ve talked about this pretty extensively, but Goodson is not a replacement for DeAngelo Williams. When Goodson can pull off the cutback TD run that Williams did yesterday, then we’ll talk.
Unimpressed by what Goodson has done so far?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing really other than the kick returns.
But, he looks like he could be a decent #2 back in the league. Imo, he’s nowhere near as good as D’angelo. But, the Panthers have been making all of their moves based on the salary cap and the upcoming lockout. I just think with Goodson showing the staff flashes of decency and Williams getting shut down for most of the games we’ve played, they may be looking now as the time to try to get some value out of him. That’s what I’ve been reading anyway.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a lot of misinformation here...
Goodson has ran the ball 6 times for 20 yards. His long was a 9 yard gain against Tampa. Throw that out and you’re looking at 11 yards on 5 carries. Not sure what flash you’re seeing…
Williams on the other hand has averaged 6.4 and 6.6 yards per carry in the last two games, although only 3.9 and 3.2 in the first two, which is still not terrible. But that does highlight that even on his worst days, Williams is still better than Goodson. He’s also broken off 3 runs for 20 yards or more this year already.
Goodson’s only “flash” comes from the returns, which is a different ballgame from rushing.
Let me put this another way...
Jimmy Clausen has more rushing yards than Mike Goodson, and don’t sacks count against rushing yards..?
Lol, really, that's all he has?
I went to that Cincy game and I swear it seemed like he was the only one making plays for our offense until that terrible fumble he had. It must’ve been off a short passes turned into decent gains. What do his recieving yards look like this year?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s second on the team in receiving yards and tied for second in receptions. I’m a Goodson fan. I thought he was a waste last year but this year he has changed my mind. I see him developing into a huge threat, he just needs more time than Williams or Stewart did. If we gave up on him now, I’d really be disappointed.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
he's gotten close to breaking a few long KRs
and has had some decent ones already. I think KR duty and a mix of a running short routes and a few change of pace runs are going to be his best way to see the field. I’m a Goodson fan too, you can see the talent there, you almost have to wonder how much falls back on Davidson’s inability to get creative with a guy like Goodson.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Anything Goodson can do, D.Will can do better.
Just my opinion, but until he proves it wrong…
…Well, maybe not KRs, but still.
Including dance/rap.
Pants on the ground. Pants on the ground.
Lookin like a foo with yo pants on the ground.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
DWill is a special talent, and top 3 in the league in my opinion.
I think Goodson could be very effective in a Reggie Bush type role if we actually had the OC to pull it off.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Aiight. I think that's why I may have thought he was doing very well. The recieivng yards.
I’m like you. I thought he was a terrible waste last year but he seems to be blossoming.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
But at what cost?
He can’t run the ball so his only value is in screens, therefore having him in on a given play is a giant neon sign saying “PASSING PLAY.”
You notice something this week? We didn’t use him. Notice something else? Our offense actually scored.
That's true.
This year though, our offense has looked mediocre no matter who was in there. I don’t want to get rid of Williams at all. But the Panthers have been weird roster moves lately. I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me if Hurney felt Goodson had made enough “big plays” (not running plays) to be handed the number 2 spot. Again, this isn’t what I want, I just think it’s something the Panthers are looking into.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
That is a very viable option on what we might do. It isn’t so much about what is best for the team in a year but what is best for this team 5+ years down the road. Handing a huge second contract to a RB rarely works out. That is just the way it is.
D-will is obviously a lot better than Goodson but the money aspect plays a huge role too. RB’s dont usually last long in this league.
by R-F on Oct 4, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Why can't he run the ball
I wouldn’t want him carrying the ball ahead of our 2 backs in this offense – but why exactly can he not run the ball? What, in his very limited action, makes you say this? He’s a 2nd year RB who has had very little pro experience running the ball.
Not saying he is great at it now, but I think he could be pretty good a year or two down the road.
by R-F on Oct 4, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
With all the DWill talk
I think if we let him walk it would be a huge mistake. He is 27. Look at what LT is doing at 31. Sign him to a 4 year deal. That should be the first thing Hurney does when the CBA bullshit is resolved.
He is without a doubt our best RB. Neither Stewart or Goodson can do everything he can do, but he can do everything they can do, if you will.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
The Panthers probably agree
We’re kidding ourselves if the phone hasn’t been ringing almost non stop for one of them since last season.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Heck, even Goodson and Sutton have been sought after, apparently.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Oct 4, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
We probably have the deepest RB corps in the league.
If one of them leaves, I say you stick Sutton in as the #2. He’s been fairly good taking care of the ball and he has pretty good skills.
But if you trade DeAngelo, it has to be for a second and another 1st day pick AT THE WORST. Personally, I say keep him. He’s an elite back, why trade him at this point in his career when he’s at his peak? You still have the constant injury risk in Stewart. If he goes down, we’re stuck with only one back capable of holding onto the football effectively. That’s never good on a team built on running the football.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I say keep Williams and Stewart.
There’s no need to let them walk and there’s no reason to. We have the money to keep both and we should.
Hurney said he felt like we can improve the deficient areas of the team
without hurting one of our proven ones. DLo has a great talent for making something out of nothing which is a great asset in times like these when our Oline is struggling. That 27yd. TD run was a thing of beauty.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Knowing how the NFL works,
the Patriots should be able to pry Williams’ away from us for a 7th round pick this year and next year’s 6th rounder. (Rolls eyes).
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha. Fat chance.
If we ever traded him for a 7th round pick, I would go ahead and commit seppuku.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I don't know what that is, but it sounds brutal.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The Samurai used to use it on themselves when their honor was heavily damaged. Death by disbowlment.
Pretty hardcore.
There was another incident where a Japanese Calvary officer was leading his unit into battle against an infantry army several times their size. The officer is so pumped up during his charge that, while leading at the head of all his troops, he cuts off his own head and leads his army into battle as a headless horseman. Very dead, but his division was so fired up that they wiped out the other army with very little casualties to themselves.
I wish I could find the story. If anyone has a link to it, please share!
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Lol, you sure you didn't make that story up?
That dude is BAD ASS!!!
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I swear to God.
I know that the guys making Shogun 2: Total War, used the historical recount of the story as part of their inspiration to make the game. It’s out there somewhere. I’ll give you a shout if I can find a link.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
yeah I detected a hint of iritation in his interview on the Mac Attack...
when asked about a possible traded scenario involving any of our RBs. Sounded like it wasn’t the first time he’s been asked.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Trading D-Will or Stew is the right thing to do...
If we want the rest of the league to think the FO is run by 1st graders. I’ll just address Williams since I hear him mentioned the most. We want to trade a guy that’s going to be a top-5 back for AT LEAST 4 more years (let’s not forget, his workload has literally been half of LT’s at the same stage in their careers, much less wear and tear) for a crap-shoot draft pick? REALLY? Even the highest rated and most evaluated player can be a bust. Or just as bad, be mediocre/good. Very few players excel enough to be called top-5 at their respective position (or even top-10, if you’re a D-Will hater… and I’ll debate that one all day) so it seems to me, the old “bird in the hand…” thing applies. We would be taking a huge gamble for absolutely NO reason. All the “price cuts” this season are going to mean a lot of available money next year, and if it’s not used to keep guys like #34…. I’m out. I officially will become an unaffiliated football fan.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
Would love to keep DeAngelo
But given the history of this league, the notion that he will be a top 5 back into his thirties is not very likely.
by R-F on Oct 4, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
DWill is an amazing player but if we look at things realistically, the majority of his better years are likely behind him.
+123423553564t5
been saying this alllll along
Tried to find video of that block Lafell put on Pierson Prioleau to no avail...
It was brutal.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Oh yeah. I got it on DVR.
HE KILLED HIM. Caught Pierson slipping.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 4, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
f. Jimmy Clausen has to learn to throw the ball above the hands of the defensive linemen, not into their numbers. Sheesh.
-Peter King
Haha…funny but true. Clausen had what? 5 passes tipped or batted yesterday?
Not quite as bad as that
I see from the box score 7 passes defended total:
- 3 by DL (Ellis x 2, Ayodele)
- 1 by LB (Vilma)
- 1 by S (Young)
- 2 by CB (Greer, Porter)
The only three that were batted down at the LoS were the three from the DL, but that’s three too many. Clausen needs to work on the angle of his release. At the same time though the OL need to not get pushed back into the QBs grill every time.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Actually 4 were batted down at the LOS.
See my Offensive Recap: Series 4, 5, 6, and 9.
Only one of those was the fault of the OL, on MacBern for not blocking Ellis the one time. The others were against no pressure from the rush. A slide to the side would’ve worked just fine to afford Clausen a better lane to throw through. And each time it was available to him.
It seems that once he makes up his mind to scramble, or on a designed rollout, he moves just fine – but he’s fairly immobile on those times he decides he’s going to pass it. Hence the sacks and bat downs.
But all in the learning process. He played better than the last game.
Where the hell is
Duke Robinson at? Put him in the game plz.
I honestly think we should go w/ a DT or OG with our first overall pick. Does it also seem to anyone else that trading that 1st rounder in 09 for Brown is looking pretty stupid right now?
by Martin LatinFire Gonzalez on Oct 4, 2010 6:51 PM EDT reply actions
He's on IR
he was hurt during training camp
by SouthernPanther on Oct 4, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Who do you believe we should have taken with the 17th overall pick?
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I’m curious to see who people would have liked with that pick.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
That's an easy one.
I got two words for you: Dez Bryant.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Mike Iupoti
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Again... hindsight is 20/20 on both of those picks
I’ll give you Dez Bryant, but I don’t think anyone thought we’d go OL in the 1st round based on how the OL performed in 2009.
I believe the Panthers would have gone DE in the 1st round regardless if all they had heading into 2010 was Charles Johnson, Tyler Brayton and Hilee Taylor.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Any pick is 20-20 at this point.
I personally believe they would have gone DT if there was a good one still there. Both of our starters were going to come into the season entirely untested. But all of the good ones flew off the board pretty quickly. The same as the DE’s. Dan Williams might have been a good prospect, but he’s a borderline 2nd round DT at the same time being taken a round too high. DE is high on the priority list as well, but not a extreme need. We have Brayton, Brown, and Johnson. While they won’t bring the house down, they can bring pretty solid play.
Remember though, one of our greatest needs going into the draft was be at WR. We didn’t have Edwards or Lafell back then, and we were ((and still are)) hating on Jarrett. If Hurney took Dez Bryant, you pretty much figure “Ok! He’s starting as a rookie.” no matter what happens. That’s just how talented this guy is. Plus, Steve Smith would have S*** himself in glee.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
But they were trying to find Peppers'
replacement while keeping Peppers on the team. I was pissed off about how that whole process went down, then and now.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Oct 5, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
My two cents on playcalling
I noticed on a couple of obvious passing downs fairly suspect playcalling. When facing the Saints you have to know the blitz is coming in a third down. Yet on multiple occasions Claussen was stuck with 5 or 6 man protection and the checkdown was a blitz side protector. So he ended up trying to step up into a non-existent pocket and hit a still developing route.
I’m all about them taking shots down the field and Jimmy seems pretty adept at throwing under fire. But, you have to throw some drag routes, stick routes or flares into the play on the half of the field where your primary route is located. Claussen simply did not have time to get through his reads and check down to a route on the opposite half of the field.
Also. RUN TO THE LEFT SIDE. HOLY MOTHER OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER. Seriously W.T.F.??? I’m SO sick and tired of them coming back to the right side of the line as if Jeff Otah was in there.
NEWFLASH – HE’S NOT
That is all.
I don't see him going through ANY reads.
You can send 4 or 5 out on a pass pattern, but if the QB only stares at one of them, how’s that gonna work out for ya?
If Delhomme locked onto Smith, guess what? Clausen’s got a lock on Gettis, just as hard.
I know he practiced with him, when they were second teamers, but c’mon.
I don’t even fault going to Gettis; he’s developing fast as a #2 guy. I just want to see some devious behavior from Clausen, a pump fake, an effective play fake, a look to the other side before going to Gettis – anything to stop those CBs from jumping the routes.
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