Would Panthers Richardson Let Fox Escape?
by Jaxon on Jan 6, 2010 11:31 PM EST
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So is John Fox serious about leaving Carolina?
Just when John Fox seems to have righted the Panthers ship would he really leave for a rebuilding project? Certainly he knows a good thing when he has it right? I wasn't going to bother with a post on this topic based simply on what appears to be wild speculation, or worse, an agents negotiating ploy. But our resident optimist James has provided a link from additional sources that I think is worthy of flushing out a bit.
More after the jump...
Here's the meat of the post James referenced in the previous fanshot:
The national "insiders" are split on the validity of the John Fox-to-Cleveland rumor. Here's what I know:
1. Fox is "very interested" in the possibility, according to a league source.
2. Panthers owner Jerry Richardson would be willing to arrive at a contract settlement to get out of the $6 million owed Fox for the 2010 season.
3. Richardson, seeing a potential owners' lockout in 2011, would not replace Fox with Bill Cowher, but might promote from within.
4. Behind the scenes, most if not all of Mike Holmgren's coaching and executive "ready lists" are made up of clients of agent Bob LaMonte. Fox is in that stable.
This could still just be speculation as sports agents are experts at using the media as tools to gain leverage for their clients. Don't you love the fact national ‘insiders' are ‘split'. It probably means one guy says its true and one says no way!
But if we wanted to pull the thread on this possibility I have to say my first reaction is "Nooooooo!". I would rather lose any player on the team before I would lose Fox. Which puts me squarely at odds with Darin Gantt, who thinks the Panthers are bigger than any one player or coach:
And that's why, even if Fox found a team to give him a new contract Jerry Richardson isn't inclined to, you get the sense from talking to the people around the team that they'd be OK.
That's the kind of thing that takes years to build, and commitment to a principle.
I'm not sure I buy that, at least in the short term. Coaching changes always cause chaos no matter the coach or the organization. This Panthers team is in my view primed to make a serious run in 2010 and I think that run could withstand the loss of Jake Delhomme, Julius Peppers or even (heaven forbid) Steve Smith. But losing Fox would in my view cause instability that would be hard to overcome.
Need another reason to keep Fox other than to save a single season? In time I think every Panther fan will appreciate the fact a Panther ‘down year' is 8-8. I also don't think you can discount the positive comments from the players about Fox being a true ‘players coach'.
My last point to make involves the rumor that Richardson wants to ‘get out from under' the $6M contract. For all the talk this past season about Fox being in the ‘hot seat' the reality is the Panthers organization is highly regarded and Coach Fox is at the center of it. Certainly Richardson knows that as well as anybody yet they want us to believe he is worried about spending a few extra million dollars? Richardson just had a heart transplant, something that certainly has to have him contemplating things more important than money...things like a NFL Championship. Richardson may exercise some caution about signing long term deals in order to protect the franchise long term. But in the short term I'm confident a man who knows he may not live but another season is focused on the big prize. Certainly that same man, the one who hired John Fox, knows he is the best chance for a SB run in 2010 and beyond.
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Good assessment of the "insiders"
They’re about as reliable as the meteorologists who , with a straight face, advise us that “there’s a 50% chance of showers tomorrow.” Thanks.
This is all just wild speculation. Richardson is well aware of what’s out there, what it would cost him, and just how satisfied he is with Fox. Despite all the Madden players out there who want to blow everything up, we’ve got a good thing going here, and we should expect it to stay for 2010.
After that, there are just too many imponderables yet to be resolved. And that very fact is why no extension has been offered. Let’s watch who gets the job in Cleveland — my bet is he won’t be getting $6,000,000 for 2010.
Its actually supposed to snow here in Charleston tomorrow
yeah right…
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I voted frustrated...
A) No way we need let Fox go when we’re so close to putting all of the pieces together.
B) Given the idea that we would promote from within, that makes my opinion go to “hell no”.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
I voted "frustrated"
Simply because this team with the current coaching staff (minus Crossman and maybe Davidson) is good as is. The team will have a lot of guys coming off injuries (like Davis and Kemo on the defense and Gross on the OL) and should be really good next season after getting key backups a lot of playing experience.
We need to fill a few holes (2nd WR being one) but other than that we’re fine.
I just don’t see the need to make any major changes right now — replacing Fox would be like replacing the motor in your car when all you need is an oil change.
This doesnt sound like the Panthers...
Richardson doesnt gamble alot and losing fox would be a huge gamble. Richardson and his staff is about loyalty. Why do you think they like local players and look at the money they gave Jake. I belive the team caught on to Fox’s plan a game or two too late this season and with Jakes weak arm missed the playoffs by a game or two. Matt Moore looked very accurate last sunday with the 2 passes to Jarret and K. Moore down the left side. The first was missed by K. Moore, Matt laid the ball right in his hands. The second was the same pass to Jarrett he caught. KEEP EVERYONE except Davidson. Just my opinion
I too voted frustrated.
I know all these speculations could be little more than a concoction of an agent, or a slow news day. However, I’ve become accustomed to not hearing any national news regarding the Panthers and rumors.
Chris Mortensen first brought up Fox to Cleveland and said it was unlikely, after a little more digging I found the stuff on the Cleveland Plains Dealer and Darin Gantt’s reaction.
Ultimately, I think Fox stays. Unless you see a team like Cleveland’s search for a coach go terribly. As much as I think Fox cares about the Panthers and his legacy, I also think if another team bowls him over with a long term, guaranteed deal the ball will be in Richardson’s court to match it, or let him go.
Gantt is 100% right that Fox holds all the power right now… and it should be fascinating how it plays out.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
One thing to remember is that Cleveland would have to give us picks for Fox
He is still under contract for us. The last time something like this happened, the Raiders got a pair of first, a pair of seconds, and 8 million in cash from the Bucs for Jon Gruden. So is Fox worth all of that, when they likely would be top ten picks?
One of South Africa's only Carolina Panthers and fans.
by chinchillas sword on Jan 7, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
ugh
^^^^was me, sharing computers is confusing sometimes.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 7, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Willow
maybe one of you could use Mozilla and the other IE…just a thought. Of course that means one of you would have to suffer with IE…;)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
sorry
Both of us are stuck with IE. Dad won’t download anything else though, we pay per gig of space, so any large downloads are avoided.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 7, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Nevermind.
Sometimes I think I’m dyslexic.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Me too
On that note, what kind of sadist made the word “dyslexia” to describe people who mix words up!!!
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 7, 2010 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
Perhaps it’s just my inner-nerd coming out but it sounds like it should be a planet in Star Wars. Or Mass Effect. Oh, oh, maybe the new Mass Effect will have a planet called Dyslexia where everything is @$$backwards.
Inner-nerd suppressed
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
no
they wouldnt have to give us picks for fox. fox could resign and then sign with the browns
Fuck trees I climb buoys motherfucker!!!!
i didnt like mass effect
but i do love dragon age
by jojoisthemann on Jan 7, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, not made up, unless you refer to the original Greeks
dys- = bad in Greek
lexiic, or lexical = having to do with words (as in lexicon)
(those Greeks made a lot of s—t up, and maybe they were sadistic)
(…but then they didn’t know it as such, because that came from the Marquis de Sade)
Actually, the situation wouldn't be exactly the same as the Gruden situation.
At the time Gruden was the hottest commodity on the NFL coaching circuit. Thought to be an NFL savant there were numerous teams who wanted his as a coach for 2003 and beyond.
As much as Al Davis wanted to get rid of Gruden (he wanted a vertical passing game, which Gruden didn’t really build) he was also playing from a position of strength.
Enter our situation: While Fox is valuable, he’s certainly not coach 1-A on team’s lists to hire. If Jerry Richardson is really looking for the team to go in another direction long term, he could definitely be released for little, or no true compensation. Maybe some cash changes hands, but nothing more than that.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
one guy
We’ll be okay without Fox because of the talent level. I would rather Fox stay, but if he leaves, certain guys will play just as well for another coach. I wouldn’t be surprised if Davidson got promoted to HC if Fox left. I’m not saying I want that, but Meeks is too good, IMO, to do anything other than be DC. I think if Davidson is the HC, we’ll be fine. We will still have Moore, Smitty, Moose, D-Will, Beef Stew, Kalil, Gross, Robinson and Otah. I’m assuming based on a hunch that Robinson will develop into a solid RG. On defense, we’ll have all the same personnel plus Meeks. Now suppose Fox goes and we move Davidson to HC and Meeks stays as DC. Then we get, what, a 1st and 3rd, maybe, from the 4-12 Browns. All of a sudden, we’re in a position to take the best WR in the draft, and use the 2nd rd pick on a QB. I am sold on Moore, but if certain guys are still available like Tebow, McCoy or Pike, I think you have to go with them. Not only that, but I think we can get to 12-4 or 13-3 with our current roster and next year’s opponents, so the extra picks and keeping the same philosophy would be really good for us. I want Fox to stay, but we’ll be okay without him.
-1,-1,-1
Davidson BAD. Cannot find words.
OK – Davidson should have realized Jake’s limitations, and stopped having him try to launch deep touch passes. A HC has to know how to juggle personeel and skills. Davidson has not shown that.
by panthersnbraves on Jan 7, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Nice piece Jaxon!
I never thought about the role Richardson’s health issues play into this. Fox seems like the kind of guy who might stay out of loyalty (and 6M) if it were Richardsons wish that he do so.
I think you make great points regarding the disruption a coaching change would make at this point. I say (and really hope) Fox stays. Quite frankly I just don’t see him with a west coast offense team although the folks I know in Cleveland would love to have Fox more than any of the other candidates mentioned.
Indifferent..
If everyone is ok with the stubborn and conservative run the ball, good defense, close games, and up and down winning seasons then keep him around. However, sometimes a change is good for all parties involved and although we could get less of a head coach we may get a better one. I hope to see a Superbowl win in my lifetime, 15 years and counting….
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
Oh to be 15 again...
and know what I know now. I was referring to the 15 years of existence for the Carolina Panthers. I will be a fan as long as there is football.
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
Got it! Missed that possibility altogether :-)
I was scared you thought you only had 15 yrs left to live.
We WILL see that Super Bowl win, my friend. (and that’s spoken by a guy who may actually only have 15 left! LOL)
This is a business
NFL is a business just like any other business. You are free to go wherever you want to as long as you abide by your contract stipulations. Fox wants an extension, Richardson will not give him one based on his 2009 performance. Fox has 1 more year on his contract and if he wants to break it, he can…provided Richardson and Fox come to an agreement. In this case it will be a financial agreement. Fox is free to resign but he cannot sign with another team till the 2011 season. If he does, he will be financially liable to Richardson.
So…if Fox wants to sign with the Browns, the Browns will have to make a trade to the Panthers…either in terms of $$$ or draft picks/trades or both.
The Browns will not offer Fox >6mil / year. Look what they offered Josh Cribs. He has made it very clear that he wants to be traded. Even the Washington Redskins offered Shanahan only 6mi/year.
I say…if Fox wants to walk…so be it. They offer us Josh Cribs and their first round pick this year. Deal?
Not a big deal
I don’t think it would hurt our chances that badly. We still keep the one coach that proved to be effective week in-week out in Ron Meeks. Our offense was a mess last year. We had good games the last three weeks or so. Before that, I watched some of the ugliest football games I have seen played and felt sick to my stomach on numerous Sundays watching our talented team look gross and pathetic. Davidson’s play calling this season was below-par as a whole and complete garbage on several days. FOx made some huge mistakes this season that he smoke-screened by winning out these last games to “give us hope”. Dammit! I had hope before THIS season started, and it got shot in the forehead! I believe its time to bring in a new face, at least at OC, if not new head coaching as well. I really don’t think it would be that negative of an impact. Shoot. It might just work out great and we end up with a juggernaut offensive attack to go with our stout and mean defense. It could happen. We have the players to do it. And please Cleveland…..trade us Josh Cribbs for the rights to Fox. I would love and love some more me some Cribbs in teal and black ripping off 105 yard KR TD’s. Beautiful.
May I add a nugget from today
Peter King on the Morning drive, Sirius Radio 124, was talking about Charlie Weiss. HE stated that he had a conversation with a friend close to Weiss. This friend told King that Charlie was not thinking about returning to any form of coaching for about a year, BUT in certain situations may be an offensive coordinator if the situation arose.
One stuation was with John Fox as his offensive coordinator, and the other with Todd Haley of Kansas City.
IT makes you wonder if there had been conversation, or even some discussion higher up.
Just a nugget and I don’t know if it fits……
How about we bring in Weis as our OC
And we give Davidson back to Cleveland in exchange for a bag of Doritos and a 12 pack of Coke?
Seems fair to me.
Sorry my friend
He already took the spot for KC. Working with Haley
Would have been nice
yeah, I saw that too. I for one would have liked to see him as our OC. but it wasn’t meant to be.
I love your trade idea though.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
As long as it's the Ranch Doritos
Those are the best ones … but Cleveland might not be inclined to give up their best for Davidson, so we might be stuck with just plain cheese ones instead.
In other transaction news around the NFL...
I know this is a far less stunning move than John Fox potentially heading to Cleveland, but it is worth noting.
Confirmation
Does anybody really expect a confirmation from Fox that he is staying? I would suggest we will only hear if he is leaving not that he has committed to staying.
Fox say “I see myself being back” will most likely be the only thing we will hear from him unless he leaves.
Mangini still hasn't been fired yet.
Can’t fill a coaching position if it’s not open. There is still quite a bit of uncertainty if the position will be open. I wouldn’t worry about until Mangini is let go.
Superstition...
I just poured about 10 m & m’s into my hand from a standard vending machine bag.
All of them were either orange or brown.
I hope this is not an omen.
no, no, I retract my above comment....
now that I think of it, this is an omen to confirm my initial skepticism that this rumor is coming completely from the Cleveland side and has no legs on the Carolina end.
Y’all act as if losing Fox would be the end of the world. That’s the problem with Richardson and some fans, scared of change. I personally am tired of Fox and his stubborn, veteran loyalty ways. His blind loyalty to Pick6 caused them to miss the playoffs this year. How can anyone expect next year to be better when he’s going to start Pick6 again as soon as the season begins?? Fox is horrible at talent evaluation and it’s time for him to go. This up and down inconsistant crap every season has to go. He had the same folks on offense from a 12-4 team just a year ago but because of Pick6 those chances were lost. I wish him and Pick6 would just leave. Sign Peppers, start Moore, and maybe he can stay but that won’t happen.
"It's a bad day to have a bad day" - Coach John Fox of the Carolina Panthers
Well forget it now Fox is not going to the Browns people.
New post E. Mag is returning for the Browns along with his whole staff for the 2010 season. Fox is going to have to win the big dance aka the Super Bowl next season if he wants a new deal similar to what the Giants did and approached T. Coughlin with the offseason before they won the Super Bowl.
Fox you want a new deal, get the Super Bowl and you can have one.
Go Panthers.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jan 7, 2010 3:41 PM EST reply actions
"Promoting from within" sounds interesting
Who would that be? Better not be Davidson! Meeks could be interesting… Assuming Fox wasn’t holding his hand, he did a good job reviving half the team. Maybe he could do it on offense too??? But I think you’d like to see him as DC a couple of years first.
Also a coaching change is not always destructively chaotic. When Fox came here he immediately got things going. When Dungy left TB, Gruden came in and took the team Dungy built to a Superbowl. Sometimes a team needs a new spark.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
My 10 orange and brown M & M's
Must have signified the unity of the Brown coaching staff under Holmgren. Of course.
Either that or Puxatawny Phil is telling you there are going to be 6 more months of Halloween.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
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