Panther Paw Prints - Begin of 2010 Offseason Edition
We've got a few choice Paw Prints for you as you absorb at the end of the Panthers season. Let's start with the number one offseason issue in my mind and that is the return of John Fox. It seems a no-brainer that he would return but will he?
Fox noncommittal on future - Panthers - NewsObserver.com
The Observer reported last week that the Panthers do not intend to fire Fox, but that they also have no plans to extend his contract, leaving him with one year remaining and putting him a potential lame-duck situation in 2010.
Is the term 'lame duck' really applicable here? He's making $6M for the season and he suddenly seems to have gone from the hot seat to a position of leverage. How did that happen? By going 8-8 in your down year I would imagine. I expect the Big Cat to rectify this over the offseason.
'Better Late than Never' WR Dwayne Jarrett who may have just earned a shot at a roster spot in 2010:
Needell: Week 17 in the NFL in review | NFL by Paul Needell - - Football by Paul Needell - NJ.com
JERSEY GUY OF THE WEEK Dwayne Jarrett, Panthers WR In probably his final game with Carolina, the disappointing former second-round pick from New Brunswick grabbed five passes for 68 yards, including a 30-yard TD, the first TD of his three-year career. That’s called saying hello when it’s time to say goodbye.
Was it really too little too late? He should come at a good price and I would really hate it if the light finally comes on for the guy just when we give up on him.
So where are all those guys that were dissing the Panthers for not going after Jay Cutler? Maybe he has turned the corner but it was ugly getting there.
NFL season wrap-up: A look back at the not-so-good | savannahnow.com
In the category of quarterback, first place goes to Jay Cutler. Cutler, who whined his way out of Denver, must have forgotten how to play on the flight to Chicago. With the exception of maybe his last two games, Cutler threw up 18 interceptions and four fumbles for an embarrassing first year as a Bear.
The second biggest question is whether DE Julius Peppers will stay. In spite of the late season grin-fest many expect him to leave:
Panthers exit with questions, chill in air - CharlotteObserver.com
He puts his keys in the ignition and the engine is muted, as if it doesn't want to show off. Peppers speeds away – never, I am certain, to return. He won't play for this team again.
Many people expect Delhomme to leave but it just doesn't make sense for the Panther to part with a guy who could be a very valuable back-up if not starter.
Delhomme hopes to fight for starting QB job with Carolina Panthers | job, carolina, panthers - Local News - Gaston Gazette
"Certainly Matt played outstanding the last few games for us," Delhomme said. "That’ll be a big question for us, and rightfully so. And whatever management and coaches decide to make, whatever decision, be it in my favor or not in my favor, I think the biggest thing is I’m going to keep my mouth shut no matter what. I’m going to come to work and we’ll see what happens."
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104 comments
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Comments
It appears Bill Cowher is waiting on us
to have a vacancy. we should fire fox anyway even tho we said we wont just so cowher can coach
Fuck trees I climb buoys motherfucker!!!!
by adamlawson3 on Jan 5, 2010 7:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like i've said before...
No Cowher, unless Dick Lebeau is coming with him. His record is worse than Fox’s without Lebeau. Go check out the stats.
by Scrantsj on Jan 5, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Currently, I agree with you.
My point was more about Cowher and his effectiveness as a head coach. In his best years in Pittsburgh, Lebeau was his DC. Without him, he only had 4 winning seasons.
With Lebeau: 87-41 0.680
Without Lebeau: 62-49-1 0.554
by Scrantsj on Jan 5, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dream on...
It’s a nice dream, I admit, but there’s no way Cowher comes here. He would want a level of control that Richardson won’t give. And it’s not likely Richardson will go after a retread anyway, no matter how decorated.
Cowher will be in Dallas next year, and Fox in Carolina.
by Cyberjag on Jan 5, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reports came out that Cowher is not planning on coaching next year
Right after Richardson announced Fox would be here. Richardson doesn’t interfere much with the team anyways… And anyways, if Cowher ever wound up here it would primarily be about location.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unsubstantiated rumors are so much fun.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 5, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup...keeps the offseason interesting!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Jan 5, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cowher is a pretty smart guy.
To be honest, I think he was waiting for a job in Carolina. Now that he’s not getting it, he figures there is always next year.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
by Revshawn on Jan 6, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If there's one thing you can't slight Delhomme for it's being a class act.
They raised the Fox saga on WFNZ yesterday. Essentially Mark Packer said that Fox is now the most powerful person in the Carolina franchise. In order to get looks from other teams in 2011 he would have needed to have a good 2010 season with the Panthers anyway.
Now, Fox is in the position with a 3rd place schedule to have an up season and head into the 2011 offseason being the ‘most coveted coach in the NFL’ (Packer’s words, not mine) and I tend to agree.
Hopefully we’ll know more about Pep by the end of the week.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 8:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fox has put himself in a good situation
A really good team built the way he wants it, with only a few holes, and playing a much easier schedule. Theoretically he could go all in this year, not worrying about the Franchise’s future, and try to make a huge splash in 2010 for his future career. Oh no, we might wind up with no 2011 draft picks ;)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’d have to sell Hurney on that, and from everything I’ve heard, Hurney’s going to be here for quite awhile yet.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 6, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And people wonder why I still like Jake Delhomme. That quote says it all.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 5, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
fox and pep
i think there were some points this year where we rightfully criticized fox. i mean, the play calling in some games was horrible and sticking with jake for so long seemed ridiculous. however, with all of the injuries, and a new defensive coordinator, finishing 8-8 seems to me like a good job coaching. with all of the adjustments and lack of execution by different players at different times, one could argue that he actually did a better job coaching this year than last. don’t forget to look at how tough the schedule was also. so i think fox will stay and has earned it. six weeks ago, i said otherwise. and, really, who knew moore would play so well? many of us called for him to get the start, but that was based more on jake’s mistakes than true insight into how well moore would play.
i think pep will also be here. i don’t know if his ocntract was even discussed over the course of the season, but i think it would be foolish to let him go. i think it is a must that we keep him, and i think we will.
i think we can move forward with the same roster, everyone healthy, moore starting at qb, a 3rd place schedule, and tweaking the run/pass ratio and getting a new special teams coach…and we can win it all with that line-up.
by usana_gaines on Jan 5, 2010 10:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
jay cutler
i wanted jay cutler, and for good reason. i think this season was an anomaly for him, and he’ll get better. he had 27 tds to 26 ints. that’s better than 8 to 18. his qb rating was 75 to jake’s 59. i had no idea moore would do so well, and i do think cutler will be in the pro bowl a half dozen times while in chicago. remember what moose said, chicago is where receivers go to die. the whole offense up there has to change. but at this point, i’m satisfied without him on the roster. i don’t even know how fat his contract is either.
by usana_gaines on Jan 5, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is a good player... but the price was too high.
The Bears had to give up an inordinate amount to get him.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dwayne Jarrett
I give Jarrett a bye.
Based on Jake’s habit of only throwig to Steve Smith, I would say his lack of production was more to Jake never throwing him the ball. Matt Moore throws the ball around a lot more.
Jarrett came up with some decent stats in the last game.
Look at the full-time WR opposite Steve Smith. How many passes did Moose get?
by ACA Jester on Jan 5, 2010 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
moose caught 65 balls last year
which is the same number of receptions Steve Smith had this year. Thought it to be an interesting stat more than a disagreement with your theory. I do think having Jake at QB did negatively affect Jarrett’s development. Maybe he and Matt will develop a chemistry, as they are both young and from the left coast.
by ERL on Jan 5, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, somewhat
But Jake doesn’t put the players on the field, the coaching staff does. Let’s not forget, even going into the New Orleans game he was the #3 option behind Kenneth Moore, a 2 year undrafted player.
Clearly the coaching staff had no faith in Jarrett to be a #2 reciever with Smith injured, let alone make him a regular part of the offense.
I think Jake is guilty of alot of things, but Jarrett’s lack of progression or production isn’t one of them.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't mean Jake doesn't overlook him if other guys are on the field
I’m not saying it’s Jake’s fault either, but it would be nice to see how he does with a different QB.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be a pain, BUT...
Kenneth Moore was drafted in the Fifth round of the 2008 draft by Detroit.
—I know…my friends yell at me all the time for trying to be too accurate with facts.
by Scrantsj on Jan 5, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No fair point... you're not being a pain... I clearly messed up.
Regardless, his stock was a far cry from Jarrett’s who was hailed as a first rounder.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
Then again he was a WR drafted by Detroit. Might as well be undrafted. :P
by Scrantsj on Jan 5, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moore was drafted in the fifth
By the Lions though, so maybe that counts as undrafted.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 6, 2010 2:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really need to start reading more before I comment
Sorry Scrant, didn’t see you had already enlightened our Australian friend. ; )
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 6, 2010 2:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Jarrett hasn't gotten a ton of opportunity because of our offensive style
When has a #3 receiver ever been thrown to often here? I guess Proehl was, but he was a proven veteran and was here before Fox-Jake had any history with players. It seems Fox usually only uses 2 WR, and then occasionally a 3rd or 4th on 3rd and long, in the redzone and in the 2 min drill. But then you are competing with 3-4 other targets. Not a lot of opportunity.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see a solid #2 and Moose at #3
More like the Ricky Proehl days
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's the offensive style, it's the offensive style.
An offense formulated by Jeff Davidson. Proehl’s prior success is a indicator that Delhomme isn’t afraid to go to his third option, but that the Panthers coaches were afraid of using Jarrett as that third option.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can compare a proven vet like Proehl
To any of the un-proven 3rd options we’ve had since. I think it’s probably a combination of the style and being afraid to use him. But do you not agree that we typically only run 2 WR sets?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely we only run 2 WR sets
I’m just saying it’s Davidson who’s calling those sets, not Delhomme.
I find it hard to believe Jarrett is a diamond in the rough who’s been held under the thumb of Jake Delhomme.
He could now just be learning what it takes to play in the NFL, and that would be nice because we could use his talents.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's a little too extreme
To say
Jarrett is a diamond in the rough who’s been held under the thumb of Jake Delhomme
Maybe Delhomme’s a factor, maybe not… it’s prob a combo of that and play calling. Regardless we have no idea what his potential is.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You could well be right. But even playcalling doesn’t put him on the field. He was losing the job of 3rd to Kenny Moore and Charly Martin.
It didn’t look good for his future prior to last sunday.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
see below
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was losing the job, even to the point of not being activated
But he stepped up big the last game, and now that has to be rethought out. He’s always been a BIGGER target than the other 2 — and he’s shown good hands, when the ball’s been thrown to him, picking up first downs on a high % of his catches. but maybe the perception of him as a guy who couldn’t get separation, or didn’t have speed to go deep was flawed, just as the perception of Moore was, that put him behind others on the QB depth chart.
When talent emerges, coaches have to rethink these depth charts — just as they did when Tyrell Sutton showed up big, and subsequently moved ahead of Goodson. I think that shows us that, if you gain the yards, you’ll get the reps.
And that brings me to Goodson — I don’t see him making the team next year - we don’t need a 4th RB who only averaged 2.2 YPC, when the 3 ahead of him did 5.1, 5.2, and 5.7. -, and who, on 17 KO returns, only averaged 2 feet more than a touchback would have yielded. — and who had a fumbling problem. There’s been a lot of talk about Jarrett’s unfulfilled promise, but I see the bigger disappointment being Goodson. And that pains me, as I thought he had a lot of promise.
by bigdavis on Jan 6, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We many times only run a 1 WR set.
With Hoover in the I ahead of a RB, and 2 TE’s.
Teams whose QB’s gain 4000+ in the air use 3-4 WR sets — the Panthers’ offensive philosophy is run based, so ground yardage is gained by the TE’s being extra blockers on the edge.
There are also several times in each game which include all 3 TE’s on the field at the same time. I doubt any other team does that. Announcers say it’s because our WR core is depleted, but I think they want it that way — and part of that plan might be in reaction to the many errant passes that Jake got in the habit of throwing early in the season.
by bigdavis on Jan 6, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it is primarily Davidson
Because we know the guy has good hands. And we know as big as he is, he should be tough to cover. Moore’s past last week that sailed high, but Jarrett grabbed, was a great example of potentially how hard he could be to cover.
Let’s stop throwing screen passes to him, don’t expect him to run similar routes and get open like Smitty… Use the guy how he’s built to be used???
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point there
Seems to me the best way to use his size is to send him on corner routes when we’re in the red zone. He’d be hard for shorter CB’s to cover.
by bigdavis on Jan 6, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why keep Jake Delhomme
It’s an uncapped year — eat Delhomme’s salary. He would just take away a roster spot from QB we could develop. Who knows, Jake Locker might slide into the 2nd round.
(1)Moore, (2) Locker,(3) McCown or Feely. LOL
by ThiagoTyson on Jan 5, 2010 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Locker is returning for his senior season...
and if he did come out he’s a concensus #1 pick.
Why keep Jake Delhomme? Because cutting him is a classless move by one of the classiest franchises in the NFL.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another +1
You’re on a hot streak James.
Coming from a guy who has been on the anti-Jake train for awhile, I still say cutting Delhomme is an awful idea. Not many teams have the luxury of a veteran backup QB who has 6 years of starting experience in their own offense. There is no way they cut him, especially since they are paying him anyway. His days as a starting QB may be (presumably) over, but I think he has plenty of use in a backup/mentor role. He has done more for this franchise than any QB we have ever had, and deserves to retire with a place of honor as a Panther.
That is all beyond the fact that, as James said, it would be a classless move by an organization not known for such things. Why do you think so many players love the idea of retiring a panther? Or go to other teams and want come come back? Or have nothing but good things to say about their time here? It is because they were treated fairly but an exceptional front office and coaching staff.
by Tater596 on Jan 5, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Players get cut every year
Do we really want them showing partiality,or doing what’s best for the team?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See below.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t know Locker was coming back. My bad. But classless? That kind of thinking is why we lost so many games while Moore had a ballcap and clipboard.
by ThiagoTyson on Jan 5, 2010 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really see how the two corrolate… by cutting Delhomme due to the CBA issue you are intentionally using a loophole to screw over a player who helped your franchise contend for numerous seasons and has made every indication he’s willing to stay and compete for the QB position, even if he loses.
I could understand if he was being a distraction, or his personality was such that you knew he’d be an issue… but I just don’t see why you’d want to destroy your franchise’s relationship with arguably the best QB you’ve ever has, especially after Delhomme has had the opportunity to screw over the Panthers in the past, but didn’t do so.
Sure, maybe nostalgia kept Delhomme the starter too long, but nostalgia is fondness for the past… having class lasts forever.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not classless
cutting jake is not classless at all. i don’t understand that thinking at all. if it is better for the team, and good business, you cut jake. it has nothing to do with class. however, we won’t cut him because of the money. it may be an uncapped year, but that doesn’t mean richardson wants to pay jake 11.8 million while he’s playing for someone else. that would be bad business. remember, it’s a business first. that’s why teams who are a win or two from the superbowl cut key players, to save money.
by usana_gaines on Jan 5, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's using a loophole, that's classless in my book.
Yes, you need to pay the meager $11.8 million, but if you cut him in the offseason you avoid taking over twice that in salary cap hits that you would normally have to take if you cut him during the CBA.
Yes, teams cut players all the time, but not 1 year into a 5 year extension. That is normally bad business, and bad football because you take a percentage of the hit on your salary cap over time.
By cutting Jake now (who by the way could have run the Panthers over the coals after the Pro Bowl in 2004 when he was a hot commodity) you’re saving you team salary cap in the long run by only needing to pay the guaranteed portion of the deal with no deterrent in the future. It is that deterrent that typically makes teams keep players or try to trade them, it’s the only insurance a player has in a contract.
Let’s not forget, it was the Panthers who needed Jake to restructure his deal after 2008, which he did for the betterment of the team. Nice way to repay a guy by utlizing a loophole to screw a guy over, and that’s classless in my book.
Like adamwanderer said, I don’t want to be the Oakland Raiders, I don’t want to win at any cost.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 a 3rd time
I take pride in supporting an organization that wins and does not sacrifice its dignity.
by Tater596 on Jan 5, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IF it's best for the team to let Jake go
Then I don’t think they would hold off just to look “classy”. Maybe because he’s Fox’s friend.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See though, it's not about 'looking classy' it's about BEING classy.
Look at Jerry Richardson’s history. What has occured in the history of the Carolina Panthers franchise that would lead you to believe we would outright cut a player who has done nothing but bad on-field play to provoke it?
Richardson is old school, a man of principal, which is why he’s univerally loved by the owners. It has nothing to do with Delhomme being Fox’s ‘friend’ it has to do with a football player on his team, under contract in a mutual commitment.
The Big Cat and Hurney have not shown that they’re willing to break those mutual commitments without being provoked (Keyshawn Johnson).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stephen Davis?
He signed in 2003 and I believe was released before his contract expired in 2005. He signed with the Rams in 2006.
He was a huge part of our Superbowl run, but then after he underperformed in 05 they let him go to make room for the guy behind him. This is very comparable to Jake.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely different situation
Davis: Signed 3 year deal in 2003, cut at end of 2005. He had 1 year left on his contract, and was cut due to injury for the vast majority of the 2005 season.
Delhomme (proposed): Signed a 5 year deal in 2008, cut at end of 2009. He would have 4 years left on his contract, and would be cut due to poor performance.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis had carries in 13 games in 2006 for the Rams
And averaged 4.4 ypc. There was never any indication that he couldn’t return… Just that he wasn’t performing well.
To keep a player on the bench, just because he’s a good guy or won games in past… I just don’t see what’s so classy about that.
Tell me this. Why is it not classy? Because Jake’s a good guy? Or because he had 3 playoff seasons here?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutting a player with one season left is commonplace in the NFL.
Cutting a player with 4 seasons left is unheard of.
It’s unheard of because the team is crazy to do it and take the cap hit, unless it’s 2010 and cutting the player means you get out of your responsibility to the player.
There are other Panthers who were cut with 1 year left. Ken Lucas comes to mind immediately, however, that final year is the business of the NFL. Not trying to weasel your way out of an entire financial commitment because a once in a decade event arises.
Obviously Stephen Davis thought his cutting was ‘run of the mill’ enough that he chose to resign with Carolina for $1 to retire a Panther.
I doubt if Jake was cut we’d see the same warmth towards the organization, at least for the near future.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It just doesn't make sense to keep a 5Mil backup
Who potentially might never play again. I agree with Frank, if Jake is back next year then he’s probably going to be the starter… if for nothing else than making 4 Mil more than Moore.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jake wont be making $4 million more than Matt Moore
If Gantt’s prediction is true we could be paying Matt Moore roughly $19.4 million franchised to keep him for 2010 unless a long term deal is reached.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and BEING classy creates value for our franchise
By being an organization that is held in high regard, you increase your appeal to the best free agents, coaches, and investors available.
For example… You’re a big Free Agent WR, 25 years old, who has just come off a career season, and are looking to sign with someone for the long haul. Here are your choices:
1) A team like the Oakland Raiders, who come to the table with a 5 year deal for $60m, with about 20% of it incentivized.
2) A team like the Dallas Cowboys, who come to the table with a 5 year deal for $60m, with about 40% of it incentivized.
3) A team like the Carolina Panthers, who come to the table with a 5 year deal for $50m, with 10% in incentives.
If you picked option 1, you’ve decided to guarantee yourself as much money as possible (in this case $48m), but you have put yourself in a situation where you’re on a losing franchise that seems to spiral out of control every year, making it likely you will never receive any incentive money. Your future value should you be cut also will take a big hit since your numbers are down having played on a team that is not producing winners. You have guaranteed yourself a payday, but probably for the last time. This is not the type of player we want in Carolina anyway, as they are only motivated by money.
If you picked option 2, you’ve decide to guarantee yourself as little money as possible ($36m), but have put yourself on a team that has a chance to win every year. However it is also a team known to cut underperforming players well before their deal is up. You may very well be a success there, reach all your incentives, and have plenty of future value beyond the 5 years… but you would also be one of the lucky ones. What if you get injured your first year? What if you perform quite well, but not as high as the expectation an owner like Jerry Jones perceived that he signed you for? You end up cut after two years, and with far less value than what you were signed for.
If you picked option 3, you have guaranteed yourself $45m and signed with a team that is committed to taking care of its players. Known for not quitting on players with injuries (almost to a fault, i.e. Dan Morgan), and setting a reasonable goal, based on the slightly lower salary potential, that they find value in keeping you around for all 5 years of the deal. When you turn 30, and have performed admirably, they will reward you with another contract and attempt to sign you until you retire for another fair sum. Even if you decide to leave at the end of your first contract, you value will have been kept high having played for a team that competes for the playoffs in most years, and sets a standard for player conduct that is unmatched in the league. This is the type of player we look for in Carolina.
by Tater596 on Jan 5, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Winning at any cost
…is not a price I am willing to pay. If I can’t pull for a team that wins with class or honor I don’t want a part of it. Winning is not everything. Winning the right way is the standard to strive for.
by adamwanderer on Jan 5, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't have said that any better myself...
The only way I will be happy with Jake not on the roster next season is if he retires or is granted a trade that he requested so he can be a starter elsewhere. (Keep in mind I’m not saying Jake should be the starter next year, but he should be on the roster, and should be given the opportunity to compete with Moore for the job.)
Cutting him because there is no cap is a low-ball move, and Big Cat won’t do it, and he shouldn’t do it because Jake has been a class-act since he came to Carolina — it’s only common courtesy to afford him the same class that he gave us.
by bwsmith25 on Jan 5, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not a low-ball move
in every business in the entire world, smart business owners accumulate assets and cut liabilities. cutting jake would not be a low-ball or classless move. i don’t know where you guys work, but if your bosses boss felt that you were hurting the company and costing money, you would be fired. but i’m assuming none of you guys are a liability to your respective companies. however, firing a guy and still paying him is a dumb business move, and that’s why he won’t get cut. and let’s be honest, as bad as jake played, he would still be a viable back-up and mentor to moore. there are things he couldn’t do on the field anymore, or so it seemed, but i bet he has a lot to teach moore. he is a classy guy, and keeping him would be a real benefit. i know on older posts i said to cut him regardless of how much he’ll get paid, but that’s just bad business.
by usana_gaines on Jan 5, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But we have to pay him.
His contract says so. Why cut him? It would not only be classless… but also a poor business decision, to let go a QB who has plenty of value going forward as a backup QB.
by Tater596 on Jan 5, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me why it's not "classy"?
Because he’s a good guy? Or because he had 3 playoff seasons here? And does this apply to every good guy that’s helped us get to the playoffs?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not classy because 12 months ago he did the franchise a favor.
Jake was due over $13 million in the final year of his deal. He restructured so the Panthers could reduce his cap figure to roughly $6 million so they could sign more players.
He reduced his cap number so we could have more players. I think most fans didn’t understand the deal when it occurred, and still don’t now. So, by extending his deal the Panthers gave him $20 million guaranteed. Think of it as a $6 million ‘thank you present’ for not raking the organization over the coals.
Obviously the Panthers didn’t think his play would decline, but now Delhomme is due a shade over $16 million guaranteed.
I understand you’re not buying the ‘classy’ argument, so let me give you a business one:
His salary is nothing, pittance… seriously, here is his raw salary:
2010: $1.6 million
2011: $1.74 million
2012: $2.7 million
2013: $3.66 million
2014: $4.62 million
We have to pay the guaranteed money regardless, so why not keep him? That’s cheap for a veteran backup. To put that in perspective Duante Culpepper had a salary of $5.05 million this season. Would you rather Jake as a backup or someone like Culpepper? I know who I choose.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd still make way more than Moore
Even without the guaranteed money
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, he wont.
Moore is a free agent. If the Panthers franchise him Matt Moore will be making $19.4 million
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big business as opposed to family business
“in every business in the entire world” is a pretty broad statement. I’m not saying logically it isn’t a smart thing to do. But doing the right thing isn’t about logic, just like faith isn’t an act of logic.
I’m not attempting to proselytize here, but we see the wrong way of doing business so much that people seem to assume the "mafia way (it’s not personal, it’s business) is the correct or proper way to run a business. I vehemently disagree with that business mindset. Of course it is personal, it is dealing with someone’s livelihood and legacy. For the fan there is a lot less at stake. My teams isn’t as good a X team. Really? So we can justify a cutthroat mentality for the sake of being a better team. I’d rather be an also ran…
A smart businessman will cut their losses and move on…a great businessman will use an employee mistake as an opportunity to educate, and build a sense of team and family.
by adamwanderer on Jan 6, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since when is cutting players not classy?
Nobody fills up roster spots with people just because they’re good guys.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Garcia and Brenson Buckner on the Fox-Delhomme saga
Buck made a comment that in 2003 Weinke had a really good camp, but that Jake got the #2 spot because he knew Fox (didn’t say how). Anyway he was implying that for the same reason, Jake will probably get the nod in 2010.
Frank chimed in that for organizations, it’s not always about putting the best players on the field. The business side of things makes it really tough for a 460K player (Moore) to start ahead of a 5Mil player (Jake).
Now that might have no clue what they are talking about. But being ex-players, I do think they understand the reality of team decisions better than us fans.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
its a good idea..
he does get his guaranteed money, plus he may go somewhere where he could get a greater opportunity to start than he does here, he’ll be getting paid by that team as well and the team benefits by not having more cap room
but Big Cat wouldnt do it..never… hes a proper owner
by jojoisthemann on Jan 5, 2010 5:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
being classy
According to rotoworld Jake will receive 10 million of his guaranteed cash next season (he received 3 million this year) and that coupled with Fox’s return and no cap means Delhomme will do more then stay one more season with the Panthers he’ll start in 2010. If Delhomme tanks again then Fox walks on to another struggling franchise and becomes a winner / possible contender, the Panthers will have a high draft pick, Matt Moore will be given another year to develop and Delhomme will be given a very nice 7 million dollar going away gift. If not well its fun to be dead wrong but cheer for a winner.
However…
The better business move, and really the better football move, is to cut Jake now through the opportunity (what Al Davis did to Kiffin was a loophole tactic this isn’t) that the cap-less year provides take our chances with Matt Moore and our current draft slots filling in the few remaining holes. _Every _ WR and TE on the team played better with Moore under center, though the 4 games that mattered to the other team we were 3-1, even with 2 backups and a man out of place on the OL Moore out performed Jake. Every expert, coach, fan, personnel man, and bar fly will tell you to start Moore next season, but mark my words if Jake returns he will not be Moore’s backup, not under Fox.
It may not be classy, it may be on the south side of morally gray, but cutting Delhomme is the only way Moore or a better draft pick start next season. I don’t want Jake to be booted out of this club on a broken finger, and I don’t want the Panthers to been seen as a “just win baby” team, but what fans want and what happens are seldom the same.
by bleed_in_blue on Jan 5, 2010 6:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The thing I think people are failing to realize is how cheap his salary is.
2010: $1.6 million
2011: $1.74 million
2012: $2.7 million
2013: $3.66 million
2014: $4.62 million
That’s nothing for a backup.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Including the guaranteed money he'll make almost 11Mil more than Moore next season
You think we are going to have a 725K QB start game one ahead of a 11Mil QB? No way. If Jake stays than he’ll be our starter game one… rain or shine.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jan 5, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've posted it twice before, so why not a third to cover the bases.
Moore is a restricted free agent. If a long term deal is not made (like Gantt predicts) Matt Moore will be franchised for 1 year, $19.4 million.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 5, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or possibly even tendered
The first round tender is I believe around 3-4 million. That’s more than Jake’s hit of 1.6 million. Again, those aren’t exact numbers, but they are pretty close. Moore is going to get paid, and just because Delhomme is getting paid doesn’t mean he will start. Jarret is getting more money than Kenny Moore or Charly Martin, but he was still behind them on the DC. Landon Johnson was getting paid more than Nai’ll Diggs I believe, but Diggs started over him. The highest paid player doesn’t always play. The most talented guy plays.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 6, 2010 2:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
James, I understand the sense of loyality to a guy who had some good years including a superbowl season but enough is enough. I was one of the guys at the end of last season saying how Jake was going to turn it around. Then reality hit this season when only JaMarcus Russell has a lower quarterback rating than Delhomme. 18 interceptions in 11 games.
Keeping Delhomme would make the management look worse than they already do.
Gotta eat the contract and wish him luck wherever he lands.
by ThiagoTyson on Jan 6, 2010 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
All that matters, beyond just being "Classy" is Delhomme's Cap charge.
From that same Rotoworld article linked a moment ago, Delhomme’s yearly charge against the cap is listed. Here are the numbers:
$8.591 million (2009)
$4.785 million (2010)
$5.745 million (2011)
$6.705 million (2012)
$7.665 million (2013)
$8.000 million (2014)
If there were a salary cap next season, he would be cheaper in 2010 than in any other year as far as salary caps are concerned. In 2011, it may not matter at all, if there is a lockout. We can then see where we are in 2012 and evaluate Jake Delhomme’s future role on the team.
So based on this information… why would we cut a veteran backup QB when there is not a salary cap to worry about? His actually salary next year is low, and even though Matt Moore has led this team to victory in 3 out of his 4 games, we NEED to have that insurance policy ready.
There is absolutely no reason to cut him.
by Tater596 on Jan 6, 2010 9:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Some insurance policy he is as the 2nd to worst quarterback in the league. If it is because he knows the playbook and reads, so does McCown, Cantwell and Feely. All can make all the throws necessary but can you say the same about Delhomme? 18 interceptions not enough for you huh? You want to see another 8-8 or loosing season before you wake up?
by ThiagoTyson on Jan 6, 2010 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I understand where your sore spot is.
Believe me I do. I have been anti-Jake for quite some time and was glad to see that Moore is capable of driving this offense. That being said, I feel like if injury were to befall Matt then Delhomme is a better option than McCown, Feely, or Cantwell, since none have much in the way of game experience in our system.
The comparisons of him being the 2nd worst quarterback only above JaMarcus Russell are trashing his name. Russell has never been effective, never learned the offense, and never learned how to play in the NFL. Delhomme has five seasons of starting duty under the Panthers where he performed admirably with the odd bad game. This season was a horrible season for him, and I feel he has lost the ability to be “The Guy” at QB. That does not mean that in a pinch I would rather have anyone else running our offense is Moore goes down.
by Tater596 on Jan 6, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It did sound like I was bashing Jake but I’ve just come to reality that he doesn’t have what it takes to lead the team anymore. I like my chances with in of the above mention QB’s as back-up to Moore (with preseason and practices) than Delhomme.
As for comparing to Russell, stats don’t lie:
Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 JaMarcus Russell OAK QB 120 246 48.8 20.5 1,287 5.2 107.2 3 11 58 23.6 86T 10 2 33 50.0
2 Jake Delhomme CAR QB 178 321 55.5 29.2 2,015 6.3 183.2 8 18 100 31.2 52 25 4 23 59.4
by ThiagoTyson on Jan 6, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True, stats don't lie...
However, you’re taking Delhomme’s statistically worst season by a large margin and comparing it to a guy who consistently has mediocre seasons.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 6, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mediocre? wow, that's being nice
JaMarcus Russell — mediocre? You really are the resident optimist aren’t you? lol
by bwsmith25 on Jan 6, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not an optimist with the Raiders.... just generous.
He sucks, and could be the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf (except most sane people knew Russell was going to be a bust).
Happier now?
LOL
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 6, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's better -- lol
I think you’re right about one thing though — we all knew he wouldn’t cut it in the NFL — well, everyone but good ol’ Al knew it. It’s pretty sad when even the coaches that have come and gone say that they could contend with an upgrade at QB, yet Davis won’t buy into the notion that Russell is a bust.
When your #1 overall draft pick QB is outplayed by Bruce Gradkowski, and JP Losman is brought in from the UFL — you know there is a problem.
by bwsmith25 on Jan 6, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but... but... but...
He can throw 60 yards… off his knees!
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 6, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll need those knees
If he wants to stay in the NFL for more than 1 more year…could not resist.
by ERL on Jan 6, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Back to the Jarrett conversation
I think it would be foolish to give up on him now. The above posts are correct, he has had limited playing time because we rarely run 3WR sets. Whether or not Jake stunted his development is perhaps indeterminable.
But it looked like the light came on (finally) against the Saints. Darin Gantt has reported several times that he looks like “the best player on the field” in practice, which confuses me when he was inactive for several weeks…is practice not where you earn playing time?
Anyway, at this point starting over with a rookie that could be hit or miss (unless its Jordan Shipley) could be a step backwards. If the right veteran free agent is available, for the right price, then yes, let’s give it a shot. That, however, is not always effective (see DJ Hackett). Keep Jarrett and give him more opportunities to make some plays—such as the one-handed-catch on the sideline that he made look rather effortless. He is still only 23, and you can’t teach 6’4" and 220. Once he is more comfortable and confident—I think he is capable of being a very good receiver. His college production, albeit at USC, has to give you some confidence that he can get open and be a viable red-zone option.
by ERL on Jan 6, 2010 2:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jarrett’s still under contract, so he’ll be back in training camp.
It’ll be his 4th opportunity to wow the coaches and will have a preseason to do it. Whether he’ll make the 53 or not is another story.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Jan 6, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he does...
My 1st annual “WTF was he drinking” prediction: Jarrett not only makes the roster, but secures the #2 WR spot and just misses the pro-bowl.
by bwsmith25 on Jan 6, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good lord I hope so
If he has the same production he had Sunday, say 11 or 12 times next year, then your prediction will be correct.
by ERL on Jan 6, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jarrett will have yet another chance next year
It will probably be his last.
There is plenty of talent in free agency available. Another post has suggested Nate Burleson, which I think is a great idea. We also have a legitimate deep threat prospect on the practice squad (whom we just re-signed) in WR Dexter Jackson. His problem in Tampa Bay was shying away from contact. If he can learn to take those hits, he has 4.2 speed and great hands. Him plus Steve Smith would give any possession WR room to work in the short and intermediate field.
by Tater596 on Jan 6, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which I believe would work in Jarrett's favor
If he (DJ) can’t get open with two defenders committed to Smitty and one (or two) defenders committed to Dexter Jackson on the outside, plus the defense having to worry about the threat of a run — then he doesn’t belong in the NFL. I think I could get open in that situation — now whether or not I could catch and hang on to the ball is a different story, but I could at least get open lol.
by bwsmith25 on Jan 6, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also -- Dexter Jackson and Nate Burleson are interchangeable...
Either one is fine with me, if Jackson can learn to take those hits you mentioned.
by bwsmith25 on Jan 6, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Burleson always seems to pop
He is consistently making plays in Seattle. That would be one of the veterans that would fit our on-and-off the field style. I have not checked out the upcoming FA list yet, but surely there are a few more options that fit our bill as well. I do like DJ.
by ERL on Jan 6, 2010 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That was what they drafted him for in TB
But he appeared to shy away from contact in the return game. he took some seriously crushing blows. He also showed good ability to bust big returns tho. This is a video of him busting a big return in a preseason game against the Texans in his rookie year…
Dexter Jackson runs away from the Texans
Here is him.. same game running a reverse for a nice gain…
Dexter Jackson runs the reverse
Another reverse, this one against the Patriots… the announcers have a lot to say about his speed.
Dexter Jackson reverse against Patriots
And finally… His pre-draft highlight reel. I could not find the video i saw once of him taking a HUGE hit on a punt return in the NFL.
by Tater596 on Jan 6, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh almost forgot...
You CANNOT have a Dexter Jackson highlight reel without his awesome performance in the upset over Michigan being well displayed…
Dexter Jackson torches the Michigan secondary
His other Touchdown is shown after the first one, which starts at 0:30, and the 2nd one ends at 1:20. Also, a nice running playing by him is shown in between. Sorry, our fight song plays over and over during the video… which by the way the words actually are “Go App, Fight App, Go, Fight, Kick Ass.”
by Tater596 on Jan 6, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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