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Around SBN: Post-UNC Thoughts

Why the Panthers Should Clean House

Now, admittedly, I'm a little inebriated while writing this post.  And, it should also be noted that this post is being written fresh off the loss against the Cowboys on Monday night.  However, I think that when you read the points that are made, you will either full heartedly agree with me, or you will be a blind, naive optimist towards the Carolina Panthers.  During this post, I am going to go position by postion in every major position regarding the team (specifically coaches) and tell you why that person needs to be fired in order for us to EVER be good again and win a Super Bowl.

Star-divide

THE FOLLOWING DESERVES TO BE FIRED

RON MEEKS:

I don't know if anyone realized when he was hired, but he has never, in his entire NFL career, coached a good defense.  The defense he coached with the Indianapolis Colts was mediocre AT BEST even when they won the Super Bowl.  The only reason, why people thought he was any good, is that his team just so happened to have the best quarterback on the planet playing for his team, keeping the ball for longer stretches of time and scoring, which meant his defense would automactically look better because they were on the sidelines for long stretches of time and were able to play against the pass more often than not because they were usally ahead on the scoreboard.  And really, if he was actually awesome enough to be hired, why did he get let go from the Colts in the first place???!!!!  Has anyone else noticed that the Cover 2 defense is being fazed out of the NFL because it SUCKS? There is a reason that Jason Whitten was able to light us up.  It is because Cover 2 defenses are too soft and reactionary, and receivers that go over the middle (tight ends especially) are able to easily find open holes in the defense while the linebackers just sit there and do NOTHING.

 

JULIUS PEPPERS:

There really isn't much I need to say on this subject because I know all of you are thinking it.  But if a player in the NFL is getting paid nearly 1 MILLION DOLLARS PER GAME, than he should damn well show up and not be invisible on the football field, ESPECIALLY in games that matter to your team as much as the one against the Cowboys did.  Perhaps the greatest thing to come from this is that when he does hit the free agent market next year, he may not get the money he thought he would deserve based on the absolute awful efforts he gives every other game each season.  However, the counter to that argument, and the thing that makes me sick about the whole situation, is that next season looks like it won't be capped, which means that just based off of his name, he may still get paid big money from some franchise (like the Cowboys) willing to pay bunches in order to win a Super Bowl, despite the awful efforts he puts up.

 

JAKE DELHOMME:

Yes, you had a terrible game against the Cardinals during a season in which we had an even better chance of winning the Super Bowl than our 2003 season.  Yes you had a terrible game against the Eagles in our first game this season to set the tone for the rest of the season and was promptly benched in said game (the game right after the calamity against the Cardinals).  AND YES, you threw a PICK SIX against the Cowboys, in a game in which we were only SIX POINTS BEHIND and had a chance of winning a game that we NEEDED to win.  You are a horrible decision maker and you STILL force passes to Steve Smith, whom unfortunately is the best WR in the league that has to play on a team with one of the WORST QB's in the league.  By the way, if there are any Jake supporters still out there, why don't you just look at every deep ball he's TRIED to throw this year.  His arm strength is GONE.  They are ALL underthrown.  He's done.  Unfortunately, he still is our best option to win any game this entire season, so we're stuck with him...which leads us to...

 

MARTY HURNEY:

You have traded away our first round draft pick 2 years in a row.  I actually liked the move the first time.  It brought in Jeff Otah who is a good run blocking tackle and was crucial to our run towards the playoffs last year.  Even though he is the worst lineman on our entire team at FALSE STARTS and still needs improvement at pass blocking.  Yet you traded our other first round draft pick for next year to get a SECOND ROUND draft pick in Everette Brown.  I don't care how good he ends up to be, the only reason why you NEEDED to get Everette Brown was because you needed to replace the man you ended up spending SIXTEEN MILLION DOLLARS on for next year.  Perhaps the worst part to come from this inevitable rebuilding phase is that the first round draft pick that we could desperately use on a DT is going to be used by San Fransisco next year.  Great job Hurney.  The man that locked up one of the most mediocre QB's in the NFL for 5 years in order to save a few extra bucks we needed in to sign our draft picks (due to the tremendous amount of money Hurney gave to ONE MAN who isn't even going to play for us next year).  And all those injuries that we've suffered so far on defense?  Yeah, NO EXCUSE.  Every team gets injured and it's YOUR fault that we have NO DEPTH on defense because you decided to make an inconsistent defensive end the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE NFL!

 

DANNY CROSSMAN:

You are perhaps the worst special teams coordinator in the league.  I've said so since your first year with the team.  Our special teams has declined each year since you've been with the team.  We get gashed nearly every time the other team returns the ball.  IN FACT, we had to devote an entire spot on the roster to Rhys Lloyd in order to kick the ball as hard as possible so our coverage team could avoid imploding all the time.  And on the other side of the ball we haven't had a decent kick or punt return since STEVE SMITH returned kicks.  You have no clue what you're doing.  The only lee-way I can give you is that the absolute inept Marty Hurney paid 16 million dollars to one of the most overrated players in all of football and left you with NO DEPTH which means you are left with not very good players on special teams.  Still...you shouldn't be coaching in the National Football League.

 

JEFF DAVIDSON:

I really wanted to give you a chance.  I did.  Your first year on the job here in Carolina Jake was hurt for much of the season.  Your second year on the job (with Jake healthy) you helped us have a 12-4 record.  HOWEVER, when we did get to the playoffs, you decided to start winging the ball around the field like the Indianapolis Colts, DESPITE the fact that we have one of the worst QB's in the NFL and that our running game destroyed the Cardinals the very first drive of the game.  And what happened?  Jake had 6 turnovers.  Great call Jeff.  Who needs a running game right?  And tonight, against the Cowboys?  A Cowboys defense who has been exploited by nearly every offense that's played them over the last 2 years?  We score only SEVEN POINTS.  And can't even get a running game going.  Jeff, you have perhaps two of the best offensive talents in the NFL in Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith.  Yet you can't even get them into the game.  Sure, it's tough when you have an awful QB playing for you.  And actually, of all the people listed here, I think you're the least bad.  But still, you're working with a GOOD O-LINE, a great running back tandem, and an ELITE wide receiver and you can only muster 7 points against the Cowboys defense???  There is a reason why you're a no name coach.

 

And finally...

 

JOHN FOX:

Yes, you brought us to the Super Bowl only two years removed from a 1-15 season.  That's awesome.  Your philosophy of run first and play awesome defense is actually really good, and allows you to have awful QB's like Jake and Rodney Peete to win games.  However, you are perhaps one of the worst coaches in the league at picking assistant personnel.  I think maybe Jack Del Rio is the only assistant coach you've ever had who's ever had any recognition, and he ended up being a horrible head coach.  Every one else who's coached underneath you has been down right awful.  I don't care how trivial you think the stat, but the fact that you've never had back to back winning season's is A PROBLEM.  The Panthers organization has been MORE than patient and understanding with you.  Sure, in 2007 Jake was hurt.  And yes, 2 years from then, (your inevitable losing season this year) we have key injuries again.  Kemo is out for the year, his replacement is out for the year, Chris Harris is missing valuable time, etc.  But EVERY team experiences injuries.  And instead of using those as excuses to suck, you should be able to prove your worth and make the Panthers into a good team DESPITE the injuries.  I hate to see you leave, because you have given our organization more than any other head coach has.  But it is not a lot to ask from a coach by his fan base to win only two years in a row.

 

It has become clear that with all of you on the team, there is NO WAY that we will ever be able to win a Super Bowl.  Sure, we might be good enough to make the playoffs.  But the truly great teams don't settle for merely making the playoffs.  They want to win it all.  And no one that I have mentioned has ever been a winner when it truly mattered.  We have gone from a team that was 12-4 last year (while playing one of the easiest schedules in the league) to a team that is currently 0-3 (while admittedly playing one of the toughest schedules in the league).  There is no excuse.  Every year a team should improve from what it was last year.  If it doesn't. than something has gone wrong and blame must be placed.  And this is why we must clean house if we ever want to finally be on top. 

 

So next year, we need to get rid of each of these people...clean house.  New head coach (Cowher anyone?).  New GM (Someone who actually thinks you should pick up a decent QB in the draft and not pass out your first round draft picks like candy).  New DC and OC.  New QB (and no, not someone currently on our roster.  They're all awful.  It's tough to address it in the draft because we don't have a first rounder and I don't know if anyone will be available in FA despite the fact that we will have all this money from getting rid of Peppers).  Which leads me to getting rid of an inconsistent DE who's the highest paid player in the NFL. 

 

I'm sorry Panthers fans.  Call me all the names you want.  Call me a non-dedicated fan even though I've been with the team since their inception.  Call me unfaithful.  I mean sure, there's a chance we could go to the playoffs despite an 0-3 start (even though only a couple of other teams have done it before ever).  But if you have watched our games at all so far, you'll see that we have HUGE wholes in all phases of our team.  A team that went 12-4 just last year.  If that isn't a reason for changing things up, then you tell me how we're supposed to fix the problem.

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Nice post, despite out right stating your complete close-minded projection in the first paragraph with “you will either full heartedly agree with me, or you will be a blind, naive optimist towards the Carolina Panthers.” Maybe you’ll wake up in the morning, a night displaced from another Panther loss, and realize that just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they are a “blind, naive optimist” with any less a valued opinion.

You make a lot of good points. I don’t particularly agree with the clean house concept but the I don’t think fans are going to quit whining until it happens, so I say what the heck, let it happen. I’ll risk suffering through a few terrible seasons for some of you to realize the world isn’t perfect, and you can’t solve every single problem by simply firing and hiring. There’s absolutely no guarantee what-so-ever that we can get someone who will do a better job at any position than we have now.

If the Panthers do such and lose every game next season, I’ll remember to take it in stride knowing that it was EXACTLY what the fans were calling for.

I just don’t see how three weeks is enough time to properly evaluate rather or not a whole coaching staff needs to go. Is that even enough time to identify the problem? In this case we’re just pointing a finger at the whole bunch and saying “they did it”.

I just hope this is your honest opinion and you’re not just jumping from side to side. If we end this season 13-3, are you going to remain stedfast of your declaration? If so then very nice post.

ps. If we do release Fox, I wonder which team picks him up? And I wonder how long before he takes them to a SuperBowl? I do believe I’d laugh pretty hard if, say, Detroit, Washington, or St. Louis were to do such and, well, won. Then what would that tell us?

by D-Ranged1 on Sep 29, 2009 5:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The thing you're not understanding is...

…that we actually have good talent on this football team. Enough talent to go 12-4 just last year. You act like John Fox is this perennial winner but he’s never had back to back winning seasons. He took us to a Super Bowl once. If he can’t win with the talent we have now, you honestly expect him to win with lesser talent in Detroit, Washington, and St. Louis?

The reason why we need to clean house is not because we have a bad team, it’s because the leadership and front office decision makers are not taking this team in a positive direction. We are digressing. Anytime a team digresses with similar talent from the last year, it means that the guys in charge are not doing a capable job. It also doesn’t help that we no longer have a winner for a QB. It’s time for things to change.

by pancanbra on Sep 29, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

P.S.

In regards to the line where I said you’d either agree with me or be a naive optimist…I think you need to learn how to recognize tounge-in-cheek hyperbole.

by pancanbra on Sep 29, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

I agree with cleaning house. D-Ranged1, you make some valid points, but I agree with cleaning house. You say there is no guarantee that we could find someone to do a better job. There was no guarantee we could find someone to do a better job than 2-time Superbowl winning head coach George Siefert, but we fired him anyway. Fox is doing just enough to keep his job until this season. Now I think it is time to go.

You say that another team might pick him up and win with him. I agree with that. That would tell me that he lost his players’ confidence in Carolina. Belicheck was fired by Cleveland, Dungy was fired by Tampa, and Coughlin was fired by the Jags. It happens. Fox is a good coach, but what he’s doing in Carolina isn’t working. If we turn it around and win 13 games, it won’t be because everyone was wrong about Fox. He has to make drastic changes for that to happen because there is a lack of effort and fundamentals, not scheming. The schemes aren’t all that great, but it helps when tackling and effort are included.

And we have to get rid of everyone else, too, if we get rid of Fox. We can’t fire Fox and keep Hurney, Meeks and Davidson. Meeks and Davidson are Fox hires, so they would have to do. And Hurney might get a pass, but I couldn’t see keeping him if the others are gone.

by usana_gaines on Sep 29, 2009 7:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Partially...

I agree partially with you.

Danny Crossman should be fired. Special teams has sucked for years… they suck especially this year because what talent he had to work with is gone… because of Peppers.

It’s looking like John Fox has lost the team.
It’s looking like Jeff Davidson can’t adjust during half time… we’ve got 2 awesome running backs (Williams and Stewart), 1 very promising running back (Goodson) and Hoover and fiametta ad full b acks… and we don’t use them?

Steve Smith is to the Panthers as Barry Sanders was to the Lions. Amazing and a play maker on a sucky team.

Hurney needs to be fired. He hitched his wagon to Delhomme with his extension and Peppers by franchising him…

Trade Peppers and get something for him because it’s obvious he doesn’t want to play for the Panthers anymore. Make him happy and send him to the Patriots… that is if Belichick will take him with his no effort giving backside.

by scorpion12 on Sep 29, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am sick and tired of this !!

To all the Fans that don’t agree with me and Pancanbra you are kidding yourself. Stop thinking this team is going to turn it around b/c they are NOOOOOOO GOOOD !!!! They are my team, have been since 95’ but man it time for a complete rebuilding year. 2012 or bust for this franchise !!!

Simply open you eyes Panther fans we are not in 2003 yr anymore !!!

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In 2003 I was 24...

What a great year that was….

I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.

Elayne Boosler

by NaGaNole on Sep 29, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nonsense

I agree with the firing of Fox and Crossman and the other coordinators but when it comes to Hurney I think y’all are fooling yourselves. This GM has brought to Charlotte a great collection of talent; arguably we are one of the most talented teams in the NFL. This last season he has certainly made some questionable moves with Peppers, Delhomme and Everette Brown but you remember we had a 12-4 season last year right? If I were a GM in charge of a 12-4 team, I would do everything in my power to keep the nucleus of that team together, and Peppers and Delhomme were certainly considered to be a significantly part of that nucleus. He also got rid of the weak link in the secondary in Ken Lucas. It is not his fault the entire secondary just came down with tacklephobia. But think back to all the first round draft picks that were not busts(Peppers, Gross, Davis, Beason, DWilliams, Stewart, Otah, Gamble), to all the free agent pickups that have helped considerably (Delhomme, Stephen Davis, Proehl, Vincent, Lucas, Lewis, Kemoeatu, Brayton, Diggs, Baker, Lloyd). Plus he traded a late-rounder to get an unfortunately injured defensive leader in Chris Harris. So fine, fire Fox, fire Davidson, fire Meeks and Crossman I’m all for it. But as for firing Marty Hurney? I say balderdash.You want an example of a shitty GM? Go check out the only ESPN analyst to pick us last night in Matt Millen.

by ArmasFoster on Sep 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's funny about Matt Millen.

Hurney hasn’t been completely awful throughout his time with us. And you’re right, he has done a good job in the past assebling talent on our squad. But the franchising of Peppers was a huge move that would define his career, and so far it has turned out to be an utter failure. He made a huge gamble, and unfortunately it will be the Panthers that pay for it next year when the 49ers are using our top 15 pick.

by pancanbra on Sep 29, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Jake Delhomme extension is more widely criticised than franchising Peppers

Retaining the so called ‘best DE in football’ seemed to make sense to the masses, giving a 5 year extension to a bottom 15 QB is another.

I defend Jake often, but I think that will be the move that defines his tenure.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Sep 29, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the Jake extension was primarily a cap space saving move. And you’re right, it didn’t make much sense to extend his stay with us based on how he’s declined, but I think the worse move that prompted him to sign Jake was the fact that he never even attempted to find a long-term future replacement for him…except for David Carr. And we all know how that worked out.

by pancanbra on Sep 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carr could have been good, he really could have, but he needed at least one season without being hit to regain his confidence and love the game again.

But, the football Gods didn’t smile upon us and Jake got injured, Carr wasn’t ready and our opponents and fans evicerated him.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Sep 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hurney

here’s the issue with hurney. if he drafts a player, or multiple players, who have potential and never come close to reaching it, did hurney make a bad decision, or have the coaches failed the players? look at the list of 1st day picks…eric shelton, dwayne jarrett, ryne robinson, keary colbert, etc., there were so many guys that seemed destined for quality football, but couldn’t cut it. did we draft the wrong guys, or did they come to the wrong coaches. now i think we’ve gone two straight years with every pick making the team and getting some PT. is it hurney’s fault that when he drafted penn state’s all-time leading tackler, fox wasn’t going to let him play when no one else on the team is tackling?

i think if you fire fox, you fire everyone, but it’s hard to blame hurney for this mess. it’s just that he’s part of the problem, not the solution, so out he goes.

i think this exact group of guys we have right now can win the superbowl with a different coach and quarterback.

by usana_gaines on Sep 30, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

Just by that same logic – how do you know that Fox isn’t putting our players in the best position possible to win, they just aren’t getting the job done. That is just as plausible as your scenario with Hurney.

The reality of this league is that if you don’t win, you won’t last long. You could put the best gameplan out there, draft the players with the most promise, hire the best coaches, but if you don’t win then changes will be made.

I just wonder why you would be so quick to defend Hurney when that same logic can be reapplied to Fox, who you seem very quick to axe.

by R-F on Oct 1, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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