Panthers Sign DT Replacement
As reported earlier the Panthers worked out Antwon Burton earlier today and have now signed him:
The Panthers have agreed to terms with DT Antwon Burton after a workout this morning, his agent confirmed.
The 26-year-old Burton's not a household name, but he is the kind of big body (6-2, 325) they needed to fill the Maake Kemoeatu- Louis Leonard hole.Burton was in camp with St. Louis this summer, and had also spent time with Kansas City, Cincinnati and Denver.
Gantt also offers this assessment of how Leonard was playing prior to his injury:
Leonard was playing well at the time of his injury, and appeared to have made the starting job his own whether Nick Hayden came back quickly from his toe problem or not.
Well at least it appears we will have plenty of depth to choose from at the position next year.
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I dunno...
You can call it depth, but we’ll have a 31 year old Kemo, a 32 year old Lewis penciled in as starters, backed up by Hayden, Irvin, Leonard, Harris, and Burton? Our starters are getting a little old, and there isn’t a lot of talent in the reserves.
Contrast that with Jenkins and Kemo backed up by Lewis and Carstens, all of them in their mid 20s. Get my point?
The DT position is going to require a severe look in the offseason.
+1
They need to revamp the entire d-line like they did the o-line last year. Especially if we can’t get Pep to sign something.
It’s looking more and more like it is going to be impossible to overcome all this years crap.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I hate to say it
but the DL has never been the same since Jenkins left. The guy is a beast, one of the best in the league IMO.
We should have given Jenkins his money and let Pep walk.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Bingo!
It all starts up front, on both sides of the ball; and on the D-Line you start with killer DTs. Great defensive tackles turn average DEs into pro bowlers IMHO
by kilgore_trout on Sep 22, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but, you know, the guy who never speaks is always the "better teammate."
Especially when compared to the one who speaks the truth about the team’s inconsistency in its effort.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Jenkins was 100X the teammate Peppers ever will be.
Yet Peppers is the one we kept who refuses to be a leader.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I never understood why they gave up on him so quickly
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Rocked the boat too much.
They’d rather have the complacency lack of interest in football of a guy like Peppers.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No you cannot call it depth at all, none of the guys are going to be on the team next year except for maybe D-Lew; I would go as far to say that KEMO needs to go in the offeseason as well.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 22, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, definitely.
We’ve clearly shown we don’t need him.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Leonard has young and has potential
We didn’t see much of him but he should certainly get an opportunity next year.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Ditto
Plus, from the way the Steelers and their fans were high on him, I hold to the belief that we may have a possible steal in Harris.
At the very least, I don’t think we should dismiss him out of hand.
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 23, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He's an RFA.
They’d have to tender him.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
What round do you think they will tender him at?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
He didn't really play enough to make much of an impression...
So I’d imagine we’d tender him at the lowest level. He was undrafted, though, so that wouldn’t give us any protection. But I’d bet we would at least give ourselves the chance to match.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Its only a matter of time before the Peppers bashers make comments about his salary & how he is the cause of all this. lol. With the defense suffering, I really hope that great 12-4 offense can start putting points on the board & carrying the other part of the team while it heals.
"it's a bad day to have a bad day"
He's not the cause
but his cap figure certainly doesn’t help.
The cause is a combination of factors—bad luck, few options, and more pressing needs at other positions.
So, wait...
Peppers invisibility (something that’s been true for years) is because we don’t have very good DTs? Hmm…maybe if he wasn’t being paid 20% of our salary cap, we could have afforded better depth.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Our starters were fine.
Then they got hurt.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I somewhat disagree...
…I think Kemo is fine starter. Damione Lewis, however, should be backing up a better talent, in my opinion.
You're right.
He’s certainly best as a 3rd, but he’s a good enough starter. As Fox would tell you, “He was good enough to get us to 12-4 last year.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 24, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Lewis did nothing to get us to 12-4
Trying to pin that record on him is insane
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 24, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He said as Fox would say
Lewis did help out a lot though, saying he did nothing is insane.
by Flowing Willow on Sep 25, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Factual.
The Giants game is certainly example of what he did to help us avoid losses.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 25, 2009 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He helped out, but he didn't get us there
Implying that we would not have pulled out 12 wins, without him is insane to me.
Steve Smith and DeAngelo were good enough to get us to 12-4. But Lewis and hundreds of other players in the league, just helped out.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Really?
Again, look at what we did against the Giants without him. Using somebody else in his spot would have caused a HUGE dropoff, and likely would have cost us games.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 25, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL! Are you talking about a game we lost?
What is your point? That his best effort was a loss?
Let’s be honest, in 2008, Damione Lewis didn’t crack the top 50 defense linemen in sacks or tackles. That means over half the teams in the NFL have 2 d-linemen that put up better number than Lewis… We are in the bottom half of the league with only one defensive lineman that can pressure a QB and tackle.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 25, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
And as much as you hate him that lineman is Peppers
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 25, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm talking about the fact that our run defense exploded when he went down.
Are you kidding? The numbers of a DT don’t matter.
And Peppers can do neither…look at the first two games.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 26, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Are telling me that your strategy is...
For both of our DTs to neither pressure the QB or tackle anyone? They should both just stand there like road blocks, and hope guys run around them?
This is exactly why teams run up the middle, and why we suck so much at trying to stop it.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 27, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
They should occupy blockers such that the other players on the defense can make the plays.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 28, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Not a Peppers hater, but...
it does suck that his salary takes up almost 20% of the team’s cap space. They should have never franchised him and ended up stuck paying him $1M per game, regardless of how good (or bad) he is.
But, it’s not Peppers’ fault – hell if anyone offered to pay me $16M to mail it in for one year I would do it too. That one falls on the front office, not the player.
It's no fault on Peppers to take the money from the franchise tag...
However, what does fall on him is not signing an extension before the season started. When he and his agent realized he wasn’t as valuable as they thought they made the comment that ‘they weren’t against signing a long term deal’… well, if you’re not against it and the GM is offering to make you the highest paid defensive player in the NFL and retire you as a Panther, then what’s the hold up? We could have signed him to a 5 year, $50 million extension and backloaded it paying him $8 million this season and used the extra money to improve the special teams, D-line and secondary.
Instead, he chose to take the big money now and hope to cash in again at the end of the season. If he doesn’t perform this is going to severely backfire on him.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I have a theory: I hope I am wrong.
I suspect that Julius will have an incredible game against the Cowboys and the giants this year. He already had a very good game against Philadelphia. I do not think he is malingering, but i suspect that he may be “auditioning”.
Let’s see if I am correct.
A very good game?
Please. His wonderful stats came after the game had been decided. The Eagles will know that, because he was nowhere to be found while the game was still up for grabs.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
He did ok
On their first drive he was in on a couple of stops. But to be fair, the game wasn’t up for grabs for very long.
Against the Falcons though, he may as well have not played at all.
Actually...
…I thought he played a lot less. They worked Everette Brown in the game and had Peppers standing on the sideline a lot more than when we played the Eagles.
Maybe they realized it's a bad example...
to have the highest-paid defensive player in the league on the field and not trying at all.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on...you can't say he' s not trying at all
Now you’re exaggerating. Could it simply be that he’s never going to be as good as the expectations, period. Or maybe he’s just an average player that gets undeserved credit for his imposing physique and measurables.
There is one good thing about Peppers you cannot deny MP. The guy has been very good in his career blocking kicks. I think he has eight in his career.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
So what do you call the move he does where he plays patty-cake with the lineman for the entire play?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't patty-cake
He was going up against Sam-freaking-Baker! Future first ballot hall of fame lock, right?
Actually, I don’t think he is, but Peppers made him look that way. :P
I would agree with Jaxon on this one.
It’s not that he doesn’t try at all… it more spotty play than anything else. Unless the path is of least resistance and unless the play come easily he quits on it.
That means he is giving effort… but just very little and plays lazily.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
He's trying, but...
He was doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, even when it wasn’t working. When Brown was in there he tried the edge, a bull rush, and spin moves in both directions.
If Peppers would mix things up maybe he would make a better impression, but all too often it just seems like he’s going through the motions. That looks a lot like a lack of effort on his part.
You are exactly right...
He could have taken a contract extension like Delhomme did to free up cap space and eventually make millions of dollars on a backloaded deal, but he didn’t.
And because he put himself first instead of being a team player, I hope it does backfire on him.
im actually thinking
peppers and his agent cleverly are waiting for this off seasons uncapped season and will sign a ludacris contract with us
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with you BWsmith25!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 22, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Pep's Cap #
- has already had multiple backloaded extensions ammended to his orignal rookie contract. How do you think his cap number got to be this out of hand? So he was supposed to do it one more time for the team? A year before a potentially uncapped season? I can’t be made at him for not signing an extension yet. He’s the last guy I’m worried about on that side of the ball.
Peppers has never signed any extension... not once
I don’t know where this ‘multiple backloaded extensions’ myth came from, but it’s absolutely untrue. His ‘cap number’ is only out of hand because he’s on a franchise tender… this year is the only season his salary has ever been an issue.
Peppers’ rookie deal was a 7 year, $62.2 million dollar deal (incentive based) he had never negotiated a second contract. Here lies part of the problem, Pep hired a childhood friend to be his agent… a man who never had to negotiate a contract in his life which has complicated negotiations. Any joe can work on a rookie contract, especially a top 5 deal… basically wait until the bookend players sign and ask for something in between; That’s what happened.
So, essentially, this is the only time the team that has been loyal to him has ever asked for some reciprocation. The team weren’t wanting him to sign a veteran minimum, they wanted to make him the RICHEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. We’re actually lucky, because I can think of at least 5 defensive players who deserve that deal more than Peppers.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 22, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he so dominated on Sunday, right?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
If a guy is paid that much, he should at least play the game like he gives a damn about it.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Early years
Burton was a First-team All-State and All-Western New York selection as a senior at Cleveland Hills High School in Cheektowaga, New York.
[edit] College career
Burton played 22 games (16 starts) and totaled 96 tackles in two seasons at Temple University after transferring from Erie Community College in Orchard Park, N.Y. As a senior in 2005, Burton played 11 games (10 starts), posting 66 tackles (26 solo), five tackles-for-losses, four fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles and three pass breakups. Burton concluded his collegiate career by playing in the East-West Shrine Game. Before the start of his senior year, he was named one of the top five independent pro prospects by the College Football News. He played 11 games (6 starts) in his first year at Temple as a junior in 2003 before missing the 2004 season with a foot injury. He posted 6.5 sacks and was voted First-team All-Northeast Conference at Erie Community College in 2002.
[edit] Professional career
[edit] Pre-draft
At his pro day workout at Temple University, Burton measured 6-1¾ and 308 pounds. He ran a 5.39 forty-yard dash ans did 31 reps of 225 pounds. He also had a 31½" vertical leap and a broad jump of 9’5"
[edit] Denver Broncos
Burton, who entered the NFL with the Broncos as a college free agent on May 3, 2006, was signed to Denver’s practice squad after training camp. He was signed to the Broncos’ active roster on November 12, 2006, and made his professional debut with an assisted tackle at Oakland on November 12, 2006. He was declared inactive for the rest of the season. In 2007 he played in six games and made eight tackles (five solo). He was waived on November 13, 2007 and signed November 14, 2007 to Broncos practice squad, where he finished the season.
[edit] Cincinnati Bengals
Burton signed with Bengals as a free agent on May 4, 2008. Burton was on the roster of the Kansas City Chiefs and St. Louis Rams in 2008 but did not play in a game.
Interesting Fact but we will see !! If we don’t beat the cowboys our year is over anyway !
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 22, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
3 losses
That still leaves 13-3 open.
by chinchillas sword on Sep 23, 2009 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree...
the next 5, including the Cowboys, are very winnable games. If we lose this game, we still have the Redskins (who are terrible this year), Bills (still questionable), and the Bucs (see the Redskins) as the next three. Could easily be 3-3 going into Arizona.
I think your assessment is correct.
He could’ve done the team a huge service by structuring a back-end loaded contract — to his eventual riches, beyond our collective imaginations — thereby freeing up cap space, helping the team get stronger this year, thereby helping his own feeling of success. But he chose the selfish route.
Some blame the team management for throwing all that $ at him, but I blame him for not saying, “Thanks; how can I help?”
+1
Let my further this by saying that without Jake signing an extension Peppers wouldn’t even be on the roster. By Jake restructuring and saying ‘What can I do’ he put the team first. He was due to earn roughly $13 million this season with the last year from his first contract extension and if he dug his heels in then we would not have been able to sign Pep to the franchise tender without other contract restructuring.
Richardson, Hurney, Fox and Co. have been more than willing to pander to Julius’ needs and give him freedom, but whenever we ask something from him (be a leader, extend your contract) he goes against the team.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
But he didn't want to be here
To “help the team” he would have had to sign a long term deal here. I don’t think it has to do with money, I think he still wants out.
Those boneheads should have let him go instead of holding him hostage. I blame the staff.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How do you explain the comments before the season that he ’Wouldn’t be against signing with the Panthers long term’?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
He was trying to "right the ship" when he said that
Pep’s not the kind of guy to go Brandin Marshall on his team. But why did he more recently say he didn’t want to discuss his plans for next off season? Obviously he knows the truth will tick people off.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 8:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah...
…it’s because he doesn’t want that being a distraction DURING the season. He did that last year, too. Don’t talk about the contract stuff until you’re in the off-season.
Same thing
ticking people off, creating distraction, whatever… if he had plans to stay he could easily say it with no repercussions
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Dallas...
Jerry Jones would take him right now, just to create more buzz for his inflated ego, as if his new stadium isn’t enough. Of course the Panthers wouldn’t pull that off until after next week (hopefully) – but Dallas would pay his salary.
Peppers for Romo, straight up. (sarcasm)
No way for Romo, Peppers for Draft PICKS b/c we have like what 4 total going into the draft maybe five. I mean look at the facts, JJ Jansen made the team so we have to give the Packers a conditional pick, and Leonard deal we owe the Browns a 7th rounder. We have already traded away our 1st rounder next season for E. Brown to the 49er’s. So basically if think we have a 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks and that is it.
I agree though Dallas would be a good fit for Peppers and the Panthers, b/c Jones would do it just to feed his already over-inflated ego !!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 22, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The Romo idea was just me being sarcastic...
But I do like trading Peppers to Dallas for picks, because you’re right – we sure are going to need them next year.
We also have a 6th rounder...
…because we picked up an extra one in the last draft by letting the Raiders trade up with us. But one of those 6th rounders will go to Cleveland or Green Bay for Leonard or Jansen. That’ll still leave us with one.
Nope.
The Jansen pick does not go to GB until 2011. The Leonard compensation has yet to be announced.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Missing pieces
I think in the offseason we need to revamp our d-line, get a QB that can replace Jake in 2010 or 2011, and pickup another receiver (provided Jarrett or Moore don’t pan put).
I think everywhere else can be pretty dominant. I think even our secondary could be if we had consistent QB pressure.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 2:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
True ~
However I think marshall has a lot of prove b/c Munnerlyn is right on his tail and looking to push him out of the starting Lineup !!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 22, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Only question for me is where do you get the players? Is Irvin going to develop into starter material? Will there be a free agent out there who can start alongside him? In our rag-tag group of DTs, is there another Keydrick Vincent?
And at QB, think we’ll finally take one with our first pick? This would be the year to do it.
Nope...
We’ll stick with Delhomme again for next year. I have a feeling with focus on defense again in the draft. The 2nd rounder probably goes for a DT or another DE…maybe a DB. I have this feeling we trade away Peppers or let him walk away in the offseason rather than keep him. That frees up major cap space. And, given that we won’t have a lot of draft picks in 2010 (unless we get a something for Peppers), I think next year is one of the few times we actually do get active in free agency.
UFAs on the DL we could target (if they aren’t franchise tagged) include Kyle Vanden Bosch, Vince Willfork, Richard Seymour, etc. If you pair an acquisition of that caliber to replace Peppers and/or to pair with whatever we can get in the draft, maybe we stand a decent chance of overhauling the defense on the same scale that we managed with the O-line last season. Time will tell, I guess…
—Neil
You misunderstood me
No doubt we’ll stick with Delhomme next year, I just think we go out and get his intended replacement in the draft. Next year’s class is deep at the QB spot so we should get good quality in the mid-second, which is where I think we’ll be picking.
If we get an offer for Peppers I can see us taking it, but there’s no way we let him walk without compensation, particularly when it’s an uncapped year. Richardson is worth billions, he’ll throw a few extra million at Pep to keep him and allow Hurney to spend what it takes to fill out the team.
I forgot next years uncapped right?
That could get interesting.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 9:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
thats what i said earlier
we have the 12th most money in the league (most in our division) so if we were to go uncapped then we would obviously have an advantage over the other teams in the NFL south
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but you can't retain guys with a long term
Because the cap is back in place in 2012 right? We’d either have to shed some serious weight after 2 years, or restructure a bunch of contracts. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it's not.
It could be.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
As of right now...
it will be. The only way it won’t is if a new CBA is agreed to. The current CBA states that next year is an uncapped year. The only way to change it is to agree to a new players contract. Right now, both sides are not talking.
The Panthers will not spend a high pick on a QB.
They don’t (and shouldn’t) contribute anything to the team for several years (if ever), but they are paid a high price. Not gonna happen.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Just because the current regime hasn’t doesn’t mean they won’t. Typically they take the BPA within a set of needs or trade down with their early picks. Up until now they haven’t needed a Quarterback. The last time it looked like they did was when they went out and signed David Carr. The next year they went into the season thinking they might have something in Matt Moore, but found out they didn’t. This year there wasn’t anyone good available.
The stars have to align just right, but we’re now in a position where we know we have to get a good quarterback to assume the throne in two or three years. We also sorely need receivers. I expect those two positions to be addressed in this next draft along with Defensive Tackle.
What’s sad is that every one of those positions is one that takes at least a year to develop, sometimes longer. You know that Fox and Hurney will hear about that too.
They've said they won't, specifically.
I would bet my horse they’d sign an inexpensive vet (like McCown) before using a high draft pick on a QB. Particularly with Delhomme established. There will be no $20 million signing bonus for a QB to apprentice.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying you have a horse? ; )
I think 2nd round is a definite possibility for a QB, there salaries aren’t that expensive, and if the QB is exponentially better than anyone else on the board, he’ll be the pick. The Panthers have shown they like BPA within a set of needs, QB is a need.
by Flowing Willow on Sep 24, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
They've said they don't like to
But they also would have snapped up Ryan last year had he been available. At least according to Gantt.
I promise, they’ll have a few that they are really high on and if one is available when they select, you’ll hear his name called out.
Of course...
They also knew that he wouldn’t be. So it was a very low-risk smokescreen.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 24, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll have to look to free agency
With the lack of picks we will have to grab more project players. If we cut Pep we should be able to afford it.
I think going strong after a DB would be idiotic. Nobody is going to make plays when a QB has all day. Our guys could be really good, if we had a pass rush.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 9:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Delhomme's not getting replaced, bud.
They won’t cut him or put him on the bench with the money he’s set to earn over the next three years.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
My gut feeling
- We draft a QB in the second round next year
- Jake is the starter in 2010
- QB battle in 2011
- Delhomme will retire in the next 2-3 years
Typically what keeps a player in the league is money, Jake doesn’t need it. His family’s stables are making them money hand over fist so I think it’s more likely he’ll retire sooner rather than later.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I disagree...
…I think if we draft a QB next year, it’ll be lower than the 2nd round. And he’ll be a “project” guy who may or may not become the future of the franchise, depending on how he pans out.
…Jake starts in 2010 and beyond, if necessary.
…We watch for another decent free agent QB to become available and snatch one up in the next couple of years to continue “managing the game” for us. And Fox and Hurney keep stockpiling talent at the other positions…i.e., the guys who support our ability to “run the ball” and “stop the run” are their main focus.
…Delhomme probably retires in the next 3-4 years. He may or may not be with us at that point, depending on who we pick up as a developmental prospect in future drafts and/or via free agency.
But that’s just my four-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 23, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes.
They don’t view the QB position as a high-priority spot. They won’t treat it as such.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounds pretty insane
Seems it would be easier to nab a QB, than rebuild an entire defense. Maybe like Carr, they grab somebody in FA.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Changing the QB won't make this team vastly better.
Not without paying a Manning/Rivers-esque blockbuster deal, and they’re just plain not going to do that.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well so far taking a DE, DT, DB in the 1st 3 rounds
Hasn’t made them better at all. Maybe Brown comes on this year, but the rest look like long term projects.
I understand the logic, it just seems odd to say QB is not a high-priority spot.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
It's a numbers game...
…if you take a QB with a high draft pick, you tie up major salary cap money.
But, if you slink by with a “game managing” QB and take guys who veteran free agents who haven’t gotten a lot of playing time, but still show promise at being a starter, you don’t have to inject as much money into their deals.
That frees up cash to make a run at less expensive players on defense. And that means, you get more bang for your buck by brining in better talent at a lot of other positions besides QB. Meanwhile, if you get lucky and happen to find a “diamond in the rough” QB (either via the draft or a free agent backup), you get to pair that guy with deep talent across your entire roster.
It’s really a philosophical thing. Some NFL coaches and GMs (and owners) pin their hopes on drafting a high pick franchise QB. That strategy has a lot more busts than booms, though. For every Peyton Manning, there’s a Tom Brady (who came from nowhere to supplant Drew Bledsoe, if you recall).
It just happens to be Fox and Hurney’s strategy to not prioritize QB as the high draft pick, high money position for our team. They focus on running the ball and stopping the run. And that means investing in your O-line and RBs, and your front 7 players on defense first. That’s what we do.
—Neil
They knew Martin was a project when they drafted him.
And Irvin certainly looked like he could contribute before he got hurt.
And QB in this offense is not a high-priority spot in terms of spending money or high draft picks. Mid-tier draftees or FA pickups can do anything we need them to do: make the smart pass to the open man and make his teammates believe in him.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 24, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
True, while I agree with you somewhat...
That model has been our MO for too long. If we had the opportunity to get a seriously elite QB in the second round (very possible in this draft) I think we have to take the shot for the future, even if it doesn’t address an immediate need.
With the running game set for the future, the O-line being strong the offensive side only needs a QB and more WR depth to turn it into the class of the NFC. While I never want to see us need 35 pts to win a game (see New Orleans) I sure would like to see our offense being more rounded.
In summation: I think we need to take a shot on a QB early if the talent is there, because even though it doesn’t address a need in the short term, some opportunites are too good to pass up. I’m sure the Packers are happy that rolled the dice on Aaron Rodgers when he fell in 2005.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 24, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 take advantage of a deep QB class
To be honest, if Delhomme doesn’t get us to the playoffs this year, then I won’t care if they start a rookie QB week one next year… provided he has lots of obvious potential. Maybe it’d be better to sit him a year, but at least please try to get a player!
Regardless of what you think about Delhomme, I’m sure we all agree that his best days are behind him. Right?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 24, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know much about college ball, but what I have seen
Clausen is tearing it up, could supplant Snead and Bradford by the years end. Bradford is hurt, and I think he will be nitpicked by scouts this year. I foresee a Matt Leinart, Aaron Rodgers type fall. Snead is playing awful, he could conceivably fall to the second/third round, or even stay in school until next year when he’s a senior. I like Max Hall, he did well in a win vs Oklahoma, Tim Hiller is a smart guy, I don’t know if he has the arm strength for our offense though. Tony Pike and Rusty Smith have impressed me so far. I honestly think we could get Snead in the second, or wait till next year and have a choice between him and Jake Locker, whom I LOVE as a QB.
by Flowing Willow on Sep 25, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
True except if...
2010 is an uncapped year and there are additional Bad Jake sightings this season. Then they could decide to cut him.
That doesn't mean we're off the hook for the rest of his extension though.
The uncapped season only means there would be no salary cap in effect to monitor and control team spending. Teams like the Cowboys and Redskins would go unchecked signing up any number for FAs they choose with no reprecussions.
What it doesn’t mean, however, is teams get to erase any contracts they don’t like. The team are legally obligated to fulfil the Delhomme contract extension. Even if they team went out and signed Jason Campbell and cut Jake (unless he was picked up on waivers) we would be due to pay him his money. If 2011 returned to a cap we’d be on the hook for two starting QBs contracts, likely forcing sacrifices in other areas.
The only element that’s really scary for an uncapped year is free agency, where a handful of teams could control the entire FA market.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Not exactly...
His signing bonus has already been paid. As such, they could cut him, and the potential consequence of having the remaining prorated bonus hit the cap wouldn’t happen. All of that money would be gone by 2011.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I see...
though it would kind of be a douchebag move by the front office… and Richardson make sure were too classy for that kind of stuff.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
We haven't hit rock bottom yet, but were close to it!
We are 25th in ESPNs power rankings. Ouch! That means we ended last year tied for 3rd best in the league. And 2 games into the new season we have fallen 22 spots!
http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings?year=2009&week=3
There only explanation is “Jake Delhomme was much better in Week 2, but his two-game pace works out to eight touchdown passes and 40 interceptions”. Not the best logic. But I guess we gotta win one to get some respect… who knew?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Is it Just Me...
or does anyone else think that with a little time, the new kid Sunny will be this years Keydrick Vincent.
Don't tease
When we’re 2-0, that’s the time to get us all excited about possibilities! Not when we’re 0-2… ;)
Thee were a lot of Steeler fans upset they cut him
We will get a good look at him Monday night
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
In that he's a journeyman veteran who wins a starting job out of camp?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Come On...
Cyberjag…that’s when it fun to get your hopes up. I know things look bad, and to an extent they are. But if there is any team in the league who step up when things are low, its the Panthers.
0-2 may end up being the main thing to save the season and go all the way.
Keep ya head up!
"Werewolf in the gap"
(quoted from panthers.com)
“He’s worked pretty well today and has the rest of the week,” said defensive tackle Damione Lewis. “He’s kind of getting scheme overload right now, but I think he’ll be fine.”
Learning the strategy and where he needs to go on each snap might be the easy part for Burton. Developing proper timing and innate familiarity with his fellow linemen — that takes more than three days of practice.
“You want to get some chemistry, because I think that with ‘Big L’ (Leonard) he was just starting to come around and was developing that personality,” Beason said. "It’s tough when guys get hurt, so now it’s a new personality, somebody else you’ve got to learn and try to develop a relationship with.
“So the good thing about Red (Burton), I knew him before this; we had the same agent when I was coming out. I know him. You just need a guy who is what Coach (Ron) Meeks calls a ‘werewolf in that gap.’ That’s his ‘A’ gap; he needs to own it and say, ‘This is mine; this is where I need to be.’ And if he does that, we’ll be good.”

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