Panthers Monday Morning Optimist 9/21/09
By Jaxon: Hat tip to James the Aussie for his pick-me-up post for those of us still disappointed the Panthers lost to the Falcons yesterday. His full post begins below:
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Good morning everyone, and welcome to the Monday Morning Optimist. I’m going to look at the things we can be excited about regarding yesterday’s game as well as some areas of concern or the ‘pessimistic’ areas of our game. I will be rating performances with a rather rudimentary system of ‘Very optimistic’ and ‘Somewhat optimistic’ on the other side it will be ‘Very pessimistic’ and ‘Somewhat pessimistic’. At the end of the breakdown I will give the week’s game a percentage of whether we should be optimistic or pessimistic heading into next week’s game. As always, you’re comments, discussion and arguments are always welcome.
OPTIMISTIC
Offensive Line- Very Optimistic: They were the primary difference makers on the offense yesterday. They returned to their pro-bowl form and other than a few bad false starts the really anchored the offense. Good push on both rushing and passing opening good holes for D-Will and J-Stew. Also, the results are clear what Jake can do with a pocket. Very good signs for the O-line.
Offensive Play Calling- Very Optimistic: We had a gameplan that played to our player’s strengths! Imagine that! A good mix and run and pass, a lot of play action, some nice east/west runs mixed in with our power game. We kept Atlanta guessing for a lot of the game and while we could finish stronger in the red zone, what we did see was very encouraging.
Jake Delhomme- Very Optimistic: It was going to be easy for Jake to get this rating. He just needed to improve from last week, and he sure did improve. Other than the INT at the end of the game (which was more like a calculated punt) he had a QB rating over 100. There were a few shaky moments (attempting to throw out of bounds in the 3rd quarter almost getting picked) but overall his decision making was far better. More throws were safely lofted out of bounds than forced; he had better movement in the pocket and showed very nice touch on some long gains.
Dante Rosario- Somewhat Optimistic: He still can’t block to save his life, but someone in the open thread called him ‘The Ghost of Wesley Walls’; this couldn’t be more true. Great move to get the TD in the 4th quarter and overall crisp play.
D-Will and J-Stew- Somewhat Optimistic: They did what we knew they could. There wasn’t a lot of pessimism regarding their play, so not really any big strides in their rating. We got to see what they can do with proper blocking, and the results were good.
Richard Marshall- Somewhat Optimistic: He gets this… but only barely. His INT and FF were just enough to keep him out of being pessimistic, because overall his coverage on the day was pretty poor
Captain Munnerlyn- Somewhat Optimistic: Didn’t get a higher grade just because I think the jury is still out. The kid is looking really good though, his tackling is crisp, he’s flying to the ball and made some good defensive decisions. As a PR he needs to have some more confidence, but if that’s the biggest knock on the kid then we’re in good shape.
PESSIMISTIC
Special Teams- Very Pessimistic: Can special teams cost a team a game? Yes, yes they can. Utter failure from top to bottom. No coverage on kickoffs, a blocked punt, continual short field for our defense… a pathetic performance.
Defensive Playcalling- Very Pessimistic: We held Michael Turner in check… that’s about the only positive thing you can say. We allowed Tony Gonzalez to carve up our zone all day, with two TEs in pass protection Roddy White still got open. For a ‘bend but don’t break defense’ we bent, and we broke. Some of it is on the players, but the lack of pressure was laughable.
Julius Peppers- Very Pessimistic: He’s being paid to be the best DE in the league. He is our standout player on defense. It’s simply unacceptable for him to be completely absent. He has one job, rush the passer. Pep got no penetration most of the game, when he did he still didn’t get a lick on the QB and was able to be single blocked all game. This is not the performance we need from an all pro DE… he needs to be better.
Chris Gamble- Somewhat Pessimistic: If we are paying him to be a #1 shutdown corner, then he needs to be a #1 shutdown corner. If the problem is the zone defense, then it may fall back on Meeks, because in man coverage Gamble always used to be involved in the play, not 10 yards away.
Defensive Line- Somewhat Pessimistic: The DTs played well most of the game. They stuffed the run and Lewis made some good plays. Sadly, it broke down when we needed it the most in the 4th quarter and they allowed Turner to get going. The injury to Leonard hurts us too.
OVERALL ASSESMENT
This was an infinitely better game for the Panthers. We should hold our heads high. The defense was horrible, as were special teams but we were playing one of the better teams in the NFC. We have all the pieces; we just need to put it all together in Dallas. If yesterday’s game was a symbolic ‘must win’ then next week’s game is a literal one. We have to win in Dallas if we hope to have any shot this season.
Final grade: 65% Optimistic heading into Dallas.
The content of these posts are those of the person/idiot making the post only
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117 comments
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Comments
A very good assessment...
I blame the ST unit for losing this game. That blocked punt was atrocious. Baker should never take that long to punt a football. I know the TE whiffed on his block, but still – a shanked punt is better than a blocked one.
That single play changed the outcome of the game. Had that punt been executed properly, the Falcons are deeper in their zone and most likely don’t score that TD to go up 21-13.
Delhomme looked solid, and the offense overall was good – they just need better red zone execution, but that can be fixed.
Again, great post, I agree with you 1000%
by bwsmith25 on Sep 21, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just one thing of note...
The Falcons also pulled their returner on the punt block, so they had an extra rusher. It’s not an excuse, but it definitely was a factor.
by Scrantsj on Sep 21, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was definitely a factor.
But, it was pretty inexcusable. No adjustment was made for the extra rusher and Baker didn’t adjust his punt stride to compensate. With no returner all he needed to do was take one step and line drive it down the center of the field, he didn’t need his typical punt windup.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weird thing is that it wasn't his typical warmup.
It was an extended warmup.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems like BS to me
that you could essentially run 12 people out there but then pull your returner off the field right before the snap.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They couldn't have done that.
But they can pull the returner down into the rushing group.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats what they did
they used trickery on us the announcers even said that he ran off the field with several seconds on the play clock
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's something somebody has to notice, though.
The announcers certainly did.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and the extra flip/step had nothing to do with the extra rusher.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it a factor?
If I remember it correctly, we had two guys to block two on the left side. Barnidge did not do his job and HIS man blocked the kick. He didn’t do his job IMO
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen anyone else bring this up...
…but I thought I’d mention it. I’m no expert on what it takes to be a long-snapper in the league, or how the ball’s supposed to come into the punter’s hands, but could J.J. Jansen share some of the blame in the blocked punt? Is it possible Jason Baker had to turn the ball around and take extra time because it didn’t come to him “right”…or the way he’s used to handling it? I don’t know if that’s the case. But Triple-J is a new part of the equation in that whole mix-up. And he made some questionable snaps (even to Baker) during the preseason games, too.
Food for thought,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 21, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah. Baker caught it right.
Then he spent a 3 count twirling it around in his hands, before moving to kick it — way too long. But despite all that, the block came from the rusher that Barnidge whiffed on.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A flip wouldn't be the fault of the LS.
A spin, maybe, but a flip would have to do with where the ball is placed.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice assessment.....
… not much to add to it.
by 12th_Man_Fan on Sep 21, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We have to protect the football
D-Will giving one away is unheard of, and I’m not specifically targeting him, but Stewie almost lost a couple.
Even as a Jake hater, I will admit he stepped up his game, and that O-Line gave him the time he needs.
by Tater596 on Sep 21, 2009 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that dwill fumble broke my heart
thats when i knew we werent gonna win.
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TE
What happen to Gary B, I didn’t see him on one play. I don’t understand how Atlanta’s coaches or any coaches from any other team can mix in all types of weapons on offence but we seem to be stuck with basically four or five (Smith, Moose,D Will and J Stew w/ one TE) Where is Goodson, Moore, Gary B, Jarrett, we seem so limited that anyone can figure out what we are going to do next. I guess Jake saved his neck for the time being, I hope it last for more that a week or two. I really wasn’t too upset with yesterday but I was surprised at D Will’s fumble, he looked shell shocked on the sideline after it happened. It can and does happen to the best at times. The defense forgot to get on the plane to Atlanta, and I guess the next addition to our team is a new thing called special teams.
by Cwilly1 on Sep 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
- It was bizarre not to see Barnidge out there.
- As for Goodson, why even use him when your 2 RB are both averaging over 6 ypc? They were carving up the defense, there wasn’t really a good reason to try Goodson.
- I would like to see Moore involved in the offense, I think there’s alot of untapped potential there.
- Jarrett caught a pass… that’s more than he does most weeks. I think the offense needs to focus on Moore as our third threat.
- Jake was 6th in the NFL is passing yards this week. More than an admirable performance by him. Was there a QB in the league with more pressure on him than Jake this week?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"What happened to Gary B?"
He’s was in as the second TE on several plays, but never got open, to my knowledge, if he even ran a route — his blocking has been poor — as witness the missed block on the outside rusher, which resulted in the blocked FG — sure, Baker shouldn’t have been inspecting the laces, and taking 4 steps before punting it — but if Barnidge had made a block, it still wouldn’t have been blocked.
That play, and the very poor tackling on punt coverage, made the difference in the game.
I’ve been expecting big things from Barnidge, based on what he did in college, but he hasn’t shown anything — I now retract my support and expectations of him. Ride the bench, kid. Even Rosario is a far better blocker than you are.
But our ST are maybe the worst I’ve seen. Crossman has been called out on these blogs for a long time — and with good reason. He needs to be replaced. It’s not rocket science.
With better work on punts alone — theirs and ours — we win this game.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kind of blocking required for an all-out rush of a punt is different than Barnidge usually works on or is called on to do.
While Barnidge’s drive-focused run blocking has improved, he very rarely stays in to pass-block when he comes into the game.
Finally…where were your complaints about Crossman when he had the #12 ST unit in the league last year?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then he (GB) shouldn't be on the edge, should he?
I don’t recall making any comments about Crossman either way, nor his ST. I know others have, however.
Does he have the #12 unit this year? It is THIS year, isn’t it?
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just suggested that he has been called out for a "long time" for "good reason."
If you believe that, then you believe he has always (or at least for some time) been a poor coach. However, if he was a poor coach, how did his units perform at an above-average level last year?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're parsing again.
Give it a break. This isn’t a debate club.
And while you’re at it, please link me to the stat comparison putting him #12 last year.
Here’s what I found:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2008
The relatively high rank we got last year, overall, was skewed by Rhys Lloyd’s #1 rank in KO’s, and the #3 rank for FG/XP’s — these are hardly to be attrituble to Danny Crossman’s fine coaching, are they?
Also note that our overall ranking was HELD DOWN by the abysmal #28 ranking on Punt Coverage — and THAT’s what I and others are now berating Crossman for.
And, BTW, we were ranked #30 after this year’s game 1, and certainly not gonna be higher after week 2.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News is among the most respected columnists going.
In his highly-regarded annual ST rankings, we were 12th.
And, frankly, he deserves no less credit for our consistent production in kickoff length, XP/FG protection, or anything else than he does for his involvement in the “poor coverage.”
Finally, you didn’t mention punt coverage anywhere in your original post. You mentioned the punt protection alone.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please read more closely, esp. if you want to debate me.
You state, “Finally, you didn’t mention punt coverage anywhere in your original post. You mentioned the punt protection alone.”
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your argument. Wasn’t that your slogan?
I said, “That play, and the very poor tackling on punt coverage, made the difference in the game.”
As for Mr. HIghlyRegarded Gosselin, his ST formula uses 22 (TWENTY-TWO!) equally weighted factors to come up with his rankings — one of these is Extra Point %! Who gives a crap? Let’s put age of the coordinator in there, too, and maybe he’ll rank even higher.
I’m talking about PUNT COVERAGE, where coaching is supposed to impart some technique and strategy to the 11 guys running down to tackle the punt receiver. I doubt Mr. Crossman has much input into what % Kasay gets on XP’s.
I’ve extracted the Panthers’ consistently poor punt coverage ranking from all the irrelevant numbers that Crossman has nothing to do with, and you waste your time arguing with the obvious, to wit: we need improvement on our woeful punt coverage.
Now if you want to parse again on some word or phrase I used, go ahead — it’ll give you that last word you so hungrily crave. I quit.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right. Most kickers could make XPs blindfolded with their hands behind their back.
That’s why most teams choose to only coordinate the snapper, holder, and kicker. They just send another eight guys out there and tell them not to mess it up. No technique in XP protection or anything. Again, how is it that you choose to deem the numbers in which our ST units are good irrelevant while the areas where we are not as strong are his fault?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If BigDavis wants to lay down the standard, I'll pick it up for him...
…I call BS on your primary assertion…i.e., that Danny Crossman’s speical teams are either good enough or okay because somebody ranked them 12th overall based on subjective analysis of 22 different criteria…most of which don’t pertain to coverage of KOs and PRs.
I’ll state the position like this: The Carolina Panthers special teams units have gone downhill since Crossman took over. It’s been obvious to every fan seated in the stands or watching on TV for quite some time now.
As usual, your reliance on stats and someone else’s “highly respected” opinion in a column about who they rank ahead of whom is clouding your analysis. I completely agree with the point BigDavis is making. Our COVERAGE UNITS are very, VERY poor. The saving grace of the special teams IN GENERAL is exactly to your point…i.e., Rhys Lloyd’s ability to pin folks deep with the automatic touchbacks and Jason Baker’s ability to hold PRs by making them fair-catch it or by angling it out of bounds for no return. Those are good things. But they measure the individuals doing the kicking, not the guys tasked with doing the tackling of the returners.
And whenever the ball comes into the PR or KR’s hands and the rest of the special teams squad has to hold their gap assignments when running downfield and wrap up on tackles, they’re one of the worst units in the league. Period. The stats show that. And I would have thought you’d champion that bit of analysis if nothing else.
Instead, you’re arguing the minutiae of how XP and FG protection contributes to the measure of a special team unit’s effectiveness. And they do! But only on XPs and FGs. Meanwhile, if you measure protection on punts (which we’re obviously bad at) and on coverage of punts and kickoffs (which we’re REALLY bad at), then it looks very different.
My two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What David Scott said this AM in the Observer --
“The Panthers’ PR and KR teams have struggled this season and that’s showing up in NFL stats. The PR unit, which allowed a TD by Philadelphia in Week 1, was last in the league with a 53.0 yard average before the Monday night game between Miami and Indianapolis. The KR team was 31st with a 29.4 average.”
by bigdavis on Sep 22, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not that it matters that much...
…but we were also really horrible on special teams coverage units during preseason games as well. Granted, however, some of those players never made the squad anyway. Still, the “veterans”…aren’t doing much better. To me, that’s not as much a personnel issue as the proper coaching and scheme on coverage.
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares about stats 10% of the way through the season.
When Delhomme was 2nd in the league in passer rating through Week Three in ’07, were any of you ready to proclaim him the second-best QB in the league?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our "weapons" did enough.
300+ yards passing and 140 rushing is more than another.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A defensive gleam of hope...
In case it has slipped by, I think we have another pro bowl caliber LB in Thomas Davis. Week 1, he was the number 2 defensive player in the league. Week 2, he was number 3. Those are impressive numbers, curtousy of ESPN.com.
by BSKincaid on Sep 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just what we need for his contract year! hahahaha
Oh well, he should have enough money if we don’t pursue Pep to resign Will Witherspoon the second.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have to resign
him dwill,peppers, and marshall those are our big contract year players. thank god its uncapped because we may have a chance to resign all (i saw a stat once that said if we were to begin a uncapped season we would have the 12th highest salary at 1 billion far higher than the rest of the nfc south)
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next season is by no means guaranteed to be uncapped.
Further, Marshall is no lock to be resigned with his play of late. And I don’t know where your info comes from, but Williams is under contract through the end of next season, not this one.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 23, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Racking up lots of tackles does not a great player make.
He’s plenty good, but the defenders have all but admitted this defense drives most of the plays towards the ROLB spot Davis plays in. A few less tackles and a few more PDs would have made for a far better game.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Thomas Davis is the beneficiary of being the guy where plays come his way. But I will say this in his favor…he makes the play. He wraps up. He gets the tackle. The same can’t be said for everyone else trying to shoulder tackle people in the secondary. And a we could certainly do with a lot more PDs out of the DBs. Was it just me? Or was Munnerlyn like the only guy actually on the hip of the receiver when balls were thrown his way? The kid may be undersized compared to Gamble or others. But he’s on the receiver a lot better.
And that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's early, but...
based on 2 games, I could see him moving Marshall back to the nickel.
Personally, I’d rather see aggression from a DB, rather than passivity. There’s been a lot of talk about the Cover 2 system being all about gang-tackling and stripping the ball out — but has anybody seen it in action?
by bigdavis on Sep 22, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure...
At Tampa Bay with Ronde Barber, Derrick Brooks, and company. And at Indy with Bob Sanders. Over their tenure, those guys have had a nose for the football…and either play close coverage on the receivers or hit hard enough to jar balls loose. So far, our guys just aren’t doing that. They drop back into zones, but when a receiver enters their zone, they don’t close the distance on him to cover very well. We don’t have guys recognizing and getting into the passing lanes all that often. So, a decently accurate QB with decent protection from his O-line can take his time, find a guy down the seam or sitting in a soft spot in the coverage and pick us apart.
That’s the issue with our current implementation of the Cover-2. But it’s still early. These guys are just learning to apply it. The D-line isn’t bringing pressure that hurries the QB into throwing before his receiver gets separation or finds the hole in coverage. Thus, we’re unsuccessful in getting teams off the field on 3rd and long. They HAVE to get that fixed (in addition to the problem at DT in the run game) or we will be an average to below-average team this season. We can’t just sit back and wait for opposing offenses to make mistakes rather than forcing them to make mistakes.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it may also be that he's actually allowed to play some man on the inside.
The Cover Two is all about zone coverage from your outside CBs.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Captain was the only one providing tight coverage
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 22, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that about?
Was that planned? Or is it just cause he’s fast?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 22, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he hits
HARD for a little dude
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am more resigned than optomistic
I think that the Panthers are a middle of the road team this season in great part because we stood pat in the offseason while Atlanta and New Orleans got better. Optomistically the team looked good at times but it was apparent through the whole game who the better team was.
by docnolz on Sep 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah good assessment but...
Thanks for a good pick-me up after waking up still 0-2, but what’s with the “We have all the pieces; we just need to put it all together in Dallas.” comment on the end. As we know, every Panther fan kneels and prays that the “Good” Jake shows up not his evil twin “Bad” Jake. Anybody know if J Pep dressed up for the game? Because I certainly didn’t see a Pro Bowl DE applying constant pressure or demanding double teams that’s worth the money the team’s paying. What about a DT, what about stand out ST players, so no I don’t think we have “all the pieces” But this is my team, whether 12-4 or 1-15. I just wished we didn’t used the first part of the regular season to address these things.
by LAPanther on Sep 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, we have all the pieces.
We have a ‘good Jake’ on the roster, we have a ‘dominant Peppers’ and if they both play like that we have another 12-4 season.
There are no vast deficiencies in our roster (sans the ST and patchwork D-line) we have everything a team needs to make a big time playoff run, but those players need to play to their potential and go hard every down.
I know this is easier said than done, but I think the fact we do have that potential on the roster is the definition of ‘having all the pieces’.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't have a "dominant Peppers"
I’ve been defending his effort, based on how I saw him play vs Philly — but he’s awful at what he’s paid to do.
I henceforth give up on him, too.
When I read that other DE’s get 4 and 5 sacks in a game (Elvis Dumervil for Denver, 4 and Antwan Odom for Cincy, 5), I know it can be done. We don’t have a dominant anything.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the sentiment... I truly do.
There is nothing I can say to defend the guy.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two suggestions
- Trade the special teams for some special sauce – ketchup and mayonnaise or thousand island is fine.
- Change the name of that defensive scheme from “Cover 2” to “Number 2.”
That said, I am somewhat encouraged by the overall improvement, but that improvement needs to continue.
by dogear on Sep 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There was a lot of improvement...
,,,but it was all on the offensive side.
For a week, almost everybody here called out the OL and Jake, for the loss to Philly. The Panthers even led the league (!) after week one in pass defense. Of course, that was a mirage, since they didn’t have to pass against us, to any extent.
Well, wouldn’t you know it? The OL stepped up after a gut check and played a superlative game — only a few false starts, and no sacks allowed (but for the busted flea-flicker play that D-Will admitted he never should have tossed back to Jake.) And they consistently opened gaping holed for our RB’s And Jake had zip on the ball, and, to my eye, led his receivers in stride, no doubt confounding the critics who proclaimed him washed up. But for the late INT, which was thrown out of necessity, not choice, he would’ve had a rating of over 100 —as it is, I bet you could’ve gotten a pretty good price on his throwing for over 300 yds.
We are getting closer to a win — I don’t know how they’ll do it, but if we can just play HALF decent on ST, and cattle prod Peppers into putting forth his maximum effort, we can still turn this thing around.
I look at it this way: we stand to get 2 wins against the inept Bucs, so we’re equivalent to a 2-2 record, counting those.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody here weigh 300-plus?
Another DT bites the dust. Leonard has a broken ankle.
http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/2009/09/panthers-dt-leonard-breaks-ankle.html
by dogear on Sep 21, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
jake propaganda
Jake’s QB rating was 82.2. It’s propaganda to say his QB rating was over 100 until the most important drive of the game. On the final drive, he threw an interception. Just be objective and look at the facts. He played well, obviously much better than last week. But he didn’t play great football, just average. His QB rating was lower than his average and he threw 1 TD and 1 Int. Those are facts. If you want to be optimistic about it, I think that’s great. I’m optimistic about the season and I think we have the talent to win it all. If Jake can play a little better than he did yesterday, and, more importantly, we get some defensive stops, then we will win a lot more than we lose. The running game is going to continue to improve, but we need more from Jake if we need to score 30 to win. Down the stretch last year we averaged well over 30, and we needed it. If we need that again this year, then we have to switch the focus to the defense because we shouldn’t need 30 to win.
by usana_gaines on Sep 21, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this is great QB play
• Kurt Warner. One incompletion was a "sight-adjust’’ route mixup with Anquan Boldin, which happens to every quarterback in every game. On the other, Jacksonville was blitzing, and Warner had to throw a fade he knew probably wouldn’t be caught. That’s the extent of his imperfections Sunday. His 24-of-26 day in a 31-17 win at Jacksonville was the most accurate (.923) in NFL history.
by usana_gaines on Sep 21, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not just great. That's elite.
There is a reason Warner is a future Hall of Famer who’s paid almost 50% more than Delhomme. Further, the Arizona offense is designed for quick hit passes which allow for very high completion rates. Having two of the top 10 WRs in the NFL with very good secondary receivers is also a benefit of playing there. Their 5th wideout (Early Doucet) is probably as good or better than our 3rd (Moore.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Holding Jake Delhomme to a standard of 24-of-26 passing is insane. Warner is the beneficiary of an elite WR corps, a quick release, and an offense that’s geared to maximize his talents. He’s also one of the most accurate QBs around. Even so, a .923 completion percentage doesn’t grow on trees. That’s out of sight QB play. Even for Kurt Warner. So don’t be using that as the measuring stick for a “good” QB’s performance. Jake had a VERY good outing yesterday. But he gets no credit for that?
Look, if people are going to blame him so heavily and pick apart his stats in the loss to Philadelphia, they need to step up and give him extra props for the performance against the Falcons. That’s all I’m saying.
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again to quote from the Observer:
Scott Fowler notes that, had it been A.J. Feeley putting up Jake’s numbers on Sunday, he’d have been universally lauded, and there’d have been a ‘touchy-feeley’ section started at BOA stadium. I thought that put it in perspective.
Plus there’d have been NO pressure on Feeley — there was a TON of it on Jake! More to his credit.
by bigdavis on Sep 22, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree...
…if Feeley had those numbers, everyone would be calling for him to start the rest of the season and bench Jake Delhomme NOW. Instead, Jake gets those numbers and the haters start offering reasons on why the numbers weren’t good enough because QBs like Kurt Warner and Drew Brees are playing out of their minds right now.
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And because he threw a meaningless INT ...
that if he wanted to pad his stats (QB rating), he;s have tossed OOB.
by bigdavis on Sep 22, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does it matter whether Jake throws 20 times or 50 times....
if it moves the chains that’s all the matters. Jake had a 61% completion and an average of 7.5 yards per pass attempt.
For a comparison… lets look at Phillip Rivers and his 436 yard performance this week. 55% completion and 9.6 yards per pass attempt.
Asking Jake and the offense to put up more points to cover the defense is counter intuitive to success. They defense needs to buckle down, simple as that.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 22, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s the same problem from last year. The offense carried this team. And the defense wilted, particularly in the latter half of the season and the postseason. Jake’s blowup and turnover problems against Arizona contributed to that particular loss…but the defense put us in that situation. And, in all honesty, his meltdown gave bandwagon fans an opportunity to jump on him as the problem, when his turnovers in that game only masked the real, underlying problems…i.e., the lackluster defense and to a slightly lesser degree, the coaches’ poor game-planning.
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing nobody mentions about the playoff loss...
Is that the defense went something like seven drives without making a single stop.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was definitely a team loss that night
But most would rather blame just one guy.
by R-F on Sep 22, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’s easier to blame one guy… it takes too much lateral thinking t look at the whole picture for some people.
Which is why typically the most uneducated fans (about the game, not literally) chastise players quickly rather than looking at career trends and more useful in depth analysis to formulate opinion.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What should Jake have done on that 4th and 10?
No one was open. If he throws it away the Falcons get better field position, if he takes a sack the Falcons get better field position. He had no options.
How is it propaganda to state the absolute 100% truth? I said before the INT he had a QB rating over 100… which is 100% accurate. He finished with 82.2 but that INT was on 4th and 10… he had no other options… none.
Jake was 6th in the NFL is passing yards, there were also some key drops by the recieving corps. What should he have done better?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing. He played great. Period!
Imagine all the stress he was under before this game!
He put it all behind him, and showed a great deal of confidence with his throws. Not a bit of the loss was his fault. That could’ve been a 20-14 win.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only other thing he could have done...
…was loft one into the endzone. It might have given Smith a chance to fight for it. But the same result would have probably occurred. It was great defense on the part of the Falcons. Honestly, I can’t fault him for the decision he made.
by Scrantsj on Sep 23, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to consider the situation
No one was open, 4th and 10, you have to throw it up to try and make something happen. Look beyond the stat sheet.
Why is that a knock on Delhomme? Why should we take all the good that he did earlier nad discount it because he threw an INT in that situation? Should he take the sack or incompletion to protect his QB rating? Delhomme did nothing wrong on that play and to bash him over it seems a little rash.
Delhomme played pretty good the whole game and that INT should not have any effect on his perceived performance.
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was actually even a pretty decent throw.
Just a great play by Houston to read the route and make the pick.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't seeing it from Delhomme's point of view.
But from the angle I looked at, it looked like he could of thrown it higher and on the back shoulder, that way only Smith can go get it.
by Flowing Willow on Sep 22, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if it's a comeback route.
All that throw does is sail out of the end zone incomplete.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the slowmotion replay it looked like Steve turned to Jake and was open for 3 seconds or so just before Jake spotted him and Houston had caught up with Steve. All a matter of timing I quess. If Jake looks Steve's way seconds earlier it's a completion.
by fan4ev on Sep 22, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, my first post here
I have the bold and plain figured out now
by fan4ev on Sep 22, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the blog fan4ev
there’s a few different icons to spruce up your comments with.
Though it was more a good play by Houston than a bad throw by Jake, I thought it if had thrown it more to the outside Smith would have had a better play on it
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 22, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had it not been Jakes' 3rd option, it might've worked
We’ll never know – one of those things. Hardly the cause of the loss, by any stretch, any more than the fumble by D-Will, which has been decried in these threads.
I’ll probably be second to Jaxon, our fearless leader, in welcoming you to the blog.
by bigdavis on Sep 22, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw i wish you hadnt said that
it just purely breaks my heart
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Peppers bashing has got to stop. The guy brings alot more to the table than what a stat sheet will show. He gets held on almost every play with no call & he didnt ask to be paid 16 million, HE WANTED TO LEAVE!!
I just dont see whats optimistic about the play calling. Delhomme threw the ball 41 times, thats way too many throws for him. Also, Williams just had 16 carries for the game & JStew just had 9 compared to Turner who carried 28 times!! Ryan only threw the ball 27 times but had 3 TDs(thats what a playmaking QB looks like btw), Atl had a much more balanced offensive gameplan. Theres a stat floating around that when Delhomme throws over 40 times, he has a losing record.
If anything, Gamble should be the very pessimistic vote. He got the fat contract & has failed to show up in every game thus far since then. He gets beat, he cant tackle, & he gives too much cushion.
Overall, theres no need for anyone to feel optimistic. The Panthers have only proven that they can lose by fewer points this time & not get blown out. The coaching is still uninspired & predictable, no adjustments have been made on both sides of the ball, & they just seem to be going through the motions, just like in preseason. Dallas, Barber & Romo are going to have a field day & I dont see our offense putting up big numbers against them at cowboy stadium
"it's a bad day to have a bad day"
by D.W.G. on Sep 21, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No need to be optimistic?!?!?!
There is always a need for an optimist sir, otherwise there is no point in watching the game.
by Flowing Willow on Sep 21, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a need, alright...
..just maybe a questionable justification.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does Peppers bring? A Crest ad to the sideline?
What other team needs to justify their pro-bowl DE’s play? Do the Vikings need to say “You know, Jared Allen does so much more than the box score”? do the Giants say “Well, Tuck brings it every game”?
That is what Peppers is paid to do… and he can’t do it. He is moving from the territory of ‘most overrated DE in the NFL’ to ‘Most overrated player’. He’s the player we’re always looking for and never turns up when it matters. Yesterday he was shut down by Sam Baker… a decent tackle, but certaintly not an all pro.
But no…. ‘He gets held on every play’ because he is the only DL in the league this happens too. Nobody else gets held, ever… they only do it to Pep. I’m sure no-body pushes off except when they face Gamble too.
As for the comments regarding Jake… again… it doesn’t matter that he threw it 41 times, or what that has meant in the past. You sir, are the king of ‘It doesn’t matter what Jake has done for us in the past’ but magically when you find a stat that matters to you, then it’s applicable? That is called hypocrisy. He threw for 6th most in the NFL yesterday.
Yes, Matt Ryan had an amazing day… but we allowed Tony Gonzalez and the WRs to have free reign all day long. One of the maing reasons he was able to go 20-24 was the complete lack of pass rush, alot of which needs to be attributed to Peppers who you so vehemently defend.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
James, everything you say about me towards peppers I can apply that to you and Delhomme. Im done going back & forth with you, you are a homer who cherry picks the wrong people on the team to defend. Delhomme is a below average QB at this stage in his career. Who cares he threw for 6th most, again pulling stats out your arse that only apply when you want to make a point. Did we win the game?? Thats the bottom line. Its important that you realize when you put the game in his hands ie him throwing 41 plus times, they lose.
In regards to Peppers, you constantly hound him for everything, putting him under a microscope for what?? Because you feel he’s sabotaging the team? You think hes being paid too much for his performance? I can say the same for Delhomme, 20 million for what, the most turnovers in a playoff game in the history of the NFL. I dont recall Peppers making such huge blunders in critical times. So what if he doesn’t give it his all on every play, he DIDNT WANT TO PLAY FOR THIS TEAM IN THE FIRST PLACE!! Please understand Peppers is not obligated to perform for you the way you want him to.
"it's a bad day to have a bad day"
by D.W.G. on Sep 21, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Delhomme, AGAIN, is paid at an average rate for a veteran starter at his position.
Peppers is paid more than any defensive player in football, much less at his position. DEs are never in a place to make “huge blunders.” His huge blunders come in not doing anything for an entire game, which he does time and time again.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake is not expected and paid to be the best QB in football... Peppers is expected and paid to be the best DE in football.
You keep throwing around ‘Peppers didn’t want to play here in the first place’ like that should excuse his poor play. How I recall the summer was the Panthers gave Peppers and his pathetic best friend of an agent free reign to find a trade partner. They were unable to, and after realizing his value is higher with the Panthers than any other team in the league he said he was ‘Open to signing a long term deal’.
If you want to argue Jake’s contract, then lets do it. Delhomme threw for 300 yards yesterday… 6th in the NFL for this week. That more than earns his $6 million salary this season. Meanwhile, we paid Peppers $500,000 per tackle yesterday. It is laughable that you want to compare a $20 million, 5 year extension and a $16 million, 1 year contract.
You keep wanting to compare an average QB and an ‘elite’ DE. This is a vain attempt to try and make a point. Compare him with any truly elite DE in the league… if we’re comparing players lets at least work on the same position first.
Peppers is tied 17th in the league for sacks among defensive lineman
Peppers is tied 24th in the league for tackles among defensive lineman
Peppers is one of 21 defensive lineman who lead the league in FF.
So, why is he so special again? Why am I arguing for the wrong player?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care if Peppers doesn't want to play to play here
He is here and if he doesn’t like it, he is welcome to give back the money and quit. This is the NFL and putting the franchise tag on someone is part of the rules. While he is here, under contract, I expect him to give it his all on every play. That is not too much to ask of an NFL player.
And honestly, I’ve been hard on Peppers from the beginning. I like him alot, but I criticized his effort before it was a cool thing to do (back when he was still putting up big sack numbers). The reality is that when he doesn’t produce, people are going to look for reasons why. He is put under a microscope not only because of his contract but because of how talented he is. We have seen the extraordinary things Peppers has been able to accomplish and we all want him to achieve that again.
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peppers wanted to leave?
Should I give Julius a pass for poor performance because he wanted to leave? The decision to leave was not up to him until we decided to franchise him or not. He had no leverage in that situation and it was WELL WITHIN our right to franchise him. Those are the rules. The guy does bring alot to the table but he brings so much that it should show up in the stat sheet (hurries, sacks) every single week. He barely even gets double teamed anymore and I don’t buy the notion that he is being held every play. His effort and performance are lacking.
Delhomme threw the ball 41 times because we were down for the entire 2nd half. Turner carried the ball alot because they were winning. If the scores were reversed, we would have been running alot more and they would have been passing alot more. And of course when Delhomme throws it 40+ times we usually lose…..because when we throw it that much that means we are down in the game, usually by 2+ scores. Simple stuff really.
And I’ll feel optimistic if I want to, thank you. I don’t tell you to not feel pessimistic and you shouldn’t be considered the law on our opinions either.
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think the argument is ‘Boo hoo… Pep didn’t get what he wants, so he should be able to suck if he wants to’.
He’s behaving like a petulent child. Quietly, he had one more shot for me. That was yesterday… he sure is great when the other team have the game locked away and are playing loose (see Philly) but God forbid he does his job when he needs to.
I remember when the ‘Pep does so much more that’s not on the stat sheet’ argument started. It was 2003 when he fell to 7 sacks and Mike Rucker posted a career high 12. At the time I said, you know, he is getting schemed for… but that means Rucker can get the sacks.
So what’s happening now? Who’s getting the sacks? Oh, that’s right… Pep in the only DE in football who needs to be paired with another ‘elite’ DE to make himself look better, to be the person who gets the sacks so we can continue to defend Pep and his mystical, amazing production that doesn’t appear on the stats sheet.
The Panther fan in me wants Peppers to be the best DE in the NFL… the football fan in me realizes how overrated and overpaid he is.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
So you’re saying Robert Geathers isn’t an elite DE?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there is no call, he's not getting held.
There are a bunch of professional employees of the NFL who are paid more than you to know what the difference is between a hold and proper blocking. They also make those decisions with a much better view in much closer proximity than do you.
As for the run/pass divide, that’s an inevitable outcome of playing most of the game from more than on score down. You’ve pointed out the correlation between Delhomme’s high pass attempts and our losses. However, you have not proven causation. Most QBs are going to put up that many attempts in losing efforts, because they are required to throw as they attempt to catch up. In a rushing offense like ours, that’s going to be an even more obvious divide.
Also as to the “playmaking QB” on the other side, congrats to him. For the first time in his career, he had 3 TDs in a game. He did this in his 18th regular season game. That’s once every 18 games. Delhomme’s done it 6 times in 81 starts for the Panthers, or once every 13.5 games. Further, he did it in his very first game for us. In just a half of football!
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me ask you this
how hard is it to try for a team that you dont want to be on, so that you can make money for another team? in my opinion not very hard thats just stubborn and selfish
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 22, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few quibbles.
Yes, the OL played better, but those false start penalties and the breakdowns in pass protection at the worst times (late in the game, particularly) have got to stop.
As for the defense, particularly the secondary, I think the issue is the Tampa 2, not the ability of our players. I’d rather a guy have a chance and just get beat rather than daring the QB/WR combo to find a “tiny” five-yard hole in our soft zone coverage we’ve shown for years.
In the D-line, don’t call their play against the run a success just because their performance in pass rush was so atrocious. If a team puts up 4+ YPC on over 40 rushes, they got what they wanted when they wanted it in the run game.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Run D was a small victory.
The way I look at it we all assumed that Turner was going to have a historic day, we held him to 3.75 ypc… I’ll take that. They were still on my ‘somewhat pessimistic’ rating.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
That with our lack of a pass rush, if we don’t at least try and take away the deep ball, we will be getting burned. Alot.
If no one is getting to the QB, we’re going to get beat through the air when playing against a decent QB (Ryan is alot better than decent obviously). He picked us apart, took what he was given (the underneath stuff alot of the time) and I would venture to guess that if we gave him a chance to beat us with the deep ball then he probably would have done that too.
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly, yesterday was the day I gave up on Jake.
His underthrowing of passes cost us the game on the INT when he threw to the inside rather than the back corner of the end zone. The hit that D-Will took in the air because he had to jump up and catch a ball thrown behind him could have been a season ender. The panthers DO need inspired, accurate leadership at quarterback, not just a great person. Personality is not the only aspect of the job. A kind-hearted blind person still makes a sh**** cab driver.
by Oi2dwrld on Sep 21, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagee...
Delhomme’s throws accounted for 3/4 of the Panther’s offense. I think it’s a little much to say ‘he cost us the game’ I think he’s the least accountable for us losing yesterday, he did exactly what was needed and more.
Panthers were moving the chains better yesterday than they have in a long, long time… they just struggled in the red zone.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year we were so good in the RedZone because of our running game
So that’s not quite up to par yet either
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 21, 2009 4:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You lose the game in the plays you don't make.
To make cross sports references, Delholmme’s inconsistencies remind me of Shaq’s free throws. While “Good Jake” throwing can win us games (even big games), the inconsistent factor of his game winds up being too costly. Shaq lost games because of terrible free throwing, though he made amazing dunks in the games he lost. I don’t think we have a better option than Jake right now. I think Moore might be, but I am not one hundred percent sure.
As to the R-F’s comment. Williams was not hurt primarily because he let the ball drop for an IP, and put himself in a better position to brace for impact.
BTW, I am not saying these thing as any pro-Peppers anti-Delhomme campaign. Those people remind me of Republicans and Democrats “debating.” “My guy dosn’t suck as much as your guy, so mine is good.” That kind of logic is for children. Sometimes both guys can suck. Admit it, find someone better, and move on with life.
by Oi2dwrld on Sep 22, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa whoa
The hit on D-will could have been a season ender? That is a HUGE stretch, especially considering he just got up fine and wasn’t even injured. I’m sorry, but I hate that logic.
Jake has pretty much exemplified leadership (team captain, leading us on comebacks) so I don’t think he has the job based on his personality. I don’t think he would still be playing if he didn’t have the rest of his teammates confidence.
by R-F on Sep 21, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so torn on Jake
He brings a lot to this team, just not consistently. But the idea of having a guy like Matt Ryan, Drew Breez or Phillip Rivers with this team, makes me salivate!
If our defense was top 5, then Jake would be fine. But as Atlanta and New Orleans are proving, if your defense is average, then you need a dominating QB to win.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 21, 2009 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan is no "dominating QB."
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but he's on his way
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 24, 2009 8:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
And...
…Drew Brees still hasn’t gone to a Superbowl for all his success on the offensive side of the ball. So defense still wins championships. That cannot be understated. If you want to cite something that’s holding the Panthers back this year, it’s not Jake. It’s the defense. Same thing last season, including the playoff loss to Arizona, because Jake wouldn’t have been forced to throw the ball as much in that game if the defense hadn’t been letting Arizona score at will.
by NSpicer on Sep 22, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jakes responsible for half our losses!
I’m not confident in our defense, but NO way you can pin that first game on them.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 24, 2009 8:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't pin that first game on the defense...
Instead, what I’m saying is that the defense didn’t really get challenged that much in the first game. When your offense has that many turnovers, including a fumble return for a TD and an INT that gave the Eagles the ball on our 10-yard line…and when your special teams gives up amazing field position, including a punt return for a TD…it winds up masking the deficiencies in your defense. We didn’t get to see enough of them to really assess where they’re at as a unit.
Now, don’t get me wrong. The defense did NOT lose Game 1 against Philly. The offense and special teams did. But, despite that, all those good feelings we had about “huh, maybe the defense won’t suck as badly as we feared” came crashing down as soon as we faced off with Atlanta. Because, in that game, our offense held serve and did its job. And the defense had to be on the field and make a stand time and time again. They just failed to properly execute until the end of the 4th quarter. And, sadly…the special teams continued to let us down.
So, the bottom line for me isn’t so much “who” lost us the game in each situation. Instead, I’m examining the Panthers from a “big picture” perspective. And, if I look across all three phases of our game, I think we have serious, serious deficiencies on special teams. I think we have a defense that’s weak against the run (particularly up the middle)…and weak against the pass (both as a result of having no pass-rush and DBs playing too far off their receivers and getting back in soft zones that don’t matter much because opposing QBs and WRs have all the time in the world to find an open seam).
Lastly, just like last year, our offense is the most potent aspect of the team…but only if they prepare well and show up on game day. In the Philly game, we saw a deplorable outing by the O-line. They got it together against Atlanta. And maybe they’ll be our saving grace against Dallas…and put us back on an even keel going into the rest of the season. But, as long as special teams and defense continues to be a liability for the Panthers, I just don’t see them having a very successful season this year. In addition, if the coaching staff doesn’t come up with appropriate game plans and do a better job of coaching up these younger players and making the right calls during the game, that could also become a major liability for us.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 25, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad to say, that's a very accurate summary of where we stand right now.
However, nothing stays the same, and we can hope for change.
The Observer this morning had a scathing indictment of where our (un)Special Teams rank after 2 games (the subject of much heated discussion a few days ago), and coach Danny Crossman pretty much laid it on the problems of integrating new players into those units of punt return and punt protection — he (IMO) didn’t take responsibility for their woefully inadequate blocking and tackling, which should, at the pro level, be ingrained in any player, no matter which unit he has to play with. It’s what he gets paid to do — show them where to be, and how to do those basic jobs better. These are not skill positions, just bread and butter stuff. We will never be a contender so long as the ST units keep surrendering points and field position like they have.
After the Philly game, the OL took the heat and played like they were capable. I hope the guys on the STs look in the mirror and show the same resolve to do better.
by bigdavis on Sep 25, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he underthrew it.
I think the pass was designed to be a comeback route for Smith - the defender just made a good jump on the ball - maybe he read Jake’s eyes, as he said, or maybe he just guessed right, or maybe Smitty didn’t shield him from the ball.
In any event, the alternatives for Jake on that play have been well stated here, over and over. He either throws a completion, or any other outcome is worse field position for us to turn it over.
And I totally disagree that he was underthrowing yesterday. Last week, for sure, and I joined the crowd in decrying that he wasn’t leading his receivers. But yesterday — he was hitting them in stride, time after time.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or as a wise old sage said to me..
I love my Grandma…but I wouldn’t put her on 2nd base.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 22, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still not confident in Jake and the o-line
Because Atlanta wasn’t blitzing at all. So our linemen still haven’t proven that they can protect Jake, if a team decides to bring it like Philly did. And the one time Jake was pressured quickly he did that stupid Farve-like under-hand toss that was nearly picked off.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 21, 2009 4:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
That play was bad by Jake, no doubt.
But there were alot more times they brought a stiff pass rush, after looking at the tape there were numerous big time blitzes that he moved around in the pocket for.
While they didn’t blitz nearly as much as Philly, they definately did blitz.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
He stepped around pass rushers on more than one occasion.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They weren't blitzing at all?
They blitzed on numerous occasions, including the flea flicker..
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 21, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
James the Aussie for a New Head Coach… Give him a Vote!!
by tarheelfan on Sep 21, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
I’ll take over OC for Davidson and institute a 10 man rugby option offense. You think it’s hard bringing down DeAngelo… wait till Jordan Gross is coming down field with a full head of steam.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Sep 21, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
Trying to be optimistic because Jake DID do a lot better. However, it left the spotlight on the defensive line-not a good thing. Every time Matt Ryan threw the ball, there was an open receiver. Falcon’s offensive line mowed them down repeatedly. So embarrassing, especially Julius Peppers. How on earth does he expect to get a new multi-million dollar contract with any team playing like that? Interesting side note-have you been on the yahoo team roster page which lists salaries? Holy crap-another embarrassment. Certainly they could find some money somewhere to inspire this team with respectable salaries. My beloved John Kasay only makes $1.5 million a year after 10-15 years of game winning field goals. John, I’d pay you more if you were my kicker.
by panthergirl28 on Sep 21, 2009 10:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You can't quite do it that way.
Kasay, among the top kickers in the league (although an aging one), is paid as such. He was 10th last year in cap value.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 22, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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