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Ravens vs. Panthers: Final Thoughts

Carolina Panthers' Mike Goodson (33) runs past Baltimore Ravens' Ray Lewis (52) during a preseason NFL football game in Charlotte, N.C., Saturday, Aug. 29, 2009. (AP Photo/Chuck Burton)

More photos » by Chuck Burton - AP

2 months ago: Carolina Panthers' Mike Goodson (33) runs past Baltimore Ravens' Ray Lewis (52) during a preseason NFL football game in Charlotte, N.C., Saturday, Aug. 29, 2009. (AP Photo/Chuck Burton)

With a short week this week I didn't complete a detailed review of the Ravens game but after watching it again last night I'd like to offer the following final thoughts.

  • Though the Panthers lost I'm confident that having RB DeAngelo Williams and WR Steve Smith the entire game the Panthers would have put more points on the board. I also think playing three premier 3-4 defenses in the preseason will pay dividends once the season starts.
  • WR Kenny Moore (3 for 40 yds) is playing with obvious confidence, a fact I hope leads to significant playing time in the regular season.
  • The education of RB Mike Goodson continues as he learned some new key lessons: (1) Better make those blocks on the blitzing LB's or your going to get Jake killed and (2) don't let a DB ride you out of bounds when running a route down the sideline. He still gets a ‘B' for his 11 carries for 52 yards against a tough Ravens run defense. And the beautiful grab and toe tap on the sideline was just icing on the cake. This guy is really looking like can be a complete player.
  • I've seen enough of WR Steve Smith to know he is obviously ready for the season. Sitting him for the Steelers game should be a no-brainer.
  • The kick coverage is starting to worry me. Both kick returns went for 28 yards and one punt return went for 25 yards. That's not going to help the defense at all during the regular season. Thank goodness KOS Rhys Lloyd kicks every other kick off out of the end zone.

Star-divide

  • LB James Anderson (8 tackles) is a starter quality LB who I hope will get more PT than he has received in prior seasons. I could see him starting on the weak-side down the road should the Panthers decide Thomas Davis is too expensive.
  • The Panthers run defense played better against a one the best running games in the league. It was obvious there was huge emphasis on stopping the run. Unfortunately the secondary in turn gave up big yardage through the air. I want to ignore it as just preseason vanilla schemes but too often the Panthers secondary is barely challenging the catches. Ravens QB Joe Flacco (23 for 28, 247 yds) might as well have been playing catch in his back yard. I'm crossing my fingers the Panther brass has some grand, intricate scheme they will unveil for the defense that leaves every offense wondering what happened after the game. Please?
  • Finally I thought Panther QB Jake Delhomme looked sharp in the passing game as did back-up Josh McCown. He hit both short and long passes and seems to be moving around in the pocket better than last season. Jake also seems to be throwing with less effort and is as accurate as ever. I'm not worried about any lasting effects from last seasons infamous ending at all.
  • CB Chris Gamble had a rough game that I would easily blow off if not for the high number of poor plays. I'm still confident he can turn it around by the season opener but I can't help this feeling of dread. Do we have any play makers in the starting secondary?

Any other final thoughts on that game? Did anyone else have a notable game?

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James Anderson

I don’t agree that he’s starter quality, but it would sure be nice if a GM did and gave us a pick for him.

Anderson is a beneficiary of the system right now. Look at Tampa 2 OLB production in Indy, Chicago and Tampa Bay to get what I mean. If you think Anderson is good, Davis is going to be amazing.

by Cyberjag on Sep 3, 2009 6:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

I think Anderson is a serviceable backup, but I’d prefer to have someone better starting. I didn’t get a chance to really evaluate his play. But did anyone assess how well Anderson performed while covering TEs and RBs? I’m not sure if he had responsibility on very many of Flacco’s short completions, but if he did, I think his high number of tackles might have overshadowed some shortcomings in that area. But again, I haven’t reviewed the tape.

I do agree with Cyberjag about Thomas Davis, though. I’m looking forward to how he does in Meeks’ system this year.

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Davis, don't get me wrong...

but I sense a Will Witherspoon the second. I think when his contract’s up it will be near impossible to keep him long term. There will be alot of teams who are currently transitioning to a 3-4 who would be salivating to get a OLB with Davis’ speed.

Realistically, he was our ‘anti-Vick weapon’ and though he’s very fast and a great blitzer I think it will be very tough to see him as a Panther next season (unless we franchise him) especially looking one year down the line and realizing the kind of money we’re going to need to have open for DeAngelo Williams.

I think Jaxon is right… James Anderson and Dan Conner could very well be our future OLBs.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's hope we beef up the line first

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

It’s not ideal… but realistic that we’ll have a tough time securing Davis.

Of course, if there was ever a team primed to move to the 3-4 it’s the Panthers (assuming we lose Davis to FA and retain Peppers)

Peppers——-Beason———Connor———Brown
-———Hayden———-Kemo————Leonard

But that will never…. ever happen

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never, ever, ever

Not unless Fox steps completely back from the defense and lets a coordinator take over.

Also, Lewis would be a much better 3-4 DE than Hayden, but my money would be on Brayton there. Lewis would be gone. Peppers would also be gone, but that would make it possible to retain Davis. Davis would have to beef up to play OLB in a 3-4.

Actually, I think Johnson would also be better than Leonard as a 3-4 DE, we all see his pass rush but in college he was better against the run…

by Cyberjag on Sep 3, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the looks of that 3-4

except put Davis in thre for Peppers and let him walk.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Sep 3, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I’d rather resign Davis to be a OLB in the 3-4 than spend the extra millions of Pep. Use those extra millions to get another DT.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point about the system

I was basing it mainly on him leading the team in tackles a WLB when usually the MLB leads. Coverage skills are harder to evaluate with limited film and I’m not obviously not a pro at player evaluations. He seems to be playing very fast and he has the size to be a quality starter. It is the preseason though and many players look good in the preseason only to fizzle when it counts. He certainly looks better than Landon Johnson who was supposedly starter quality when we brought him in here.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Sep 3, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without a true NT

the MLB gets blocked out a lot.

With Kemo, the NT takes the Guard and center, the DE takes the Tackle, and the SLB takes the TE. That leaves the MLB free to roam and make plays.

When you use a one-gap DT in the same spot, the center or guard can tie up the MLB. That means the only LB who is protected from the blockers is the WLB. In those defenses, you push the play towards the sides, and try and spill the back to the WLB. Look at how many tackles Derrick Brooks used to make, Tampa did this for years.

by Cyberjag on Sep 3, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jarrett

I am still looking to see if we are ever going to get anything productive out of Dwayne Jarrett

by docnolz on Sep 3, 2009 7:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

He caught one pass for 10 yards. That’s about as productive as we’ve seen him in any other game.

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which was an improvement

and I will say on that one catch he showed some toughness in taking on the DB to get the first down.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Sep 3, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about last year?

He played well in the preseason, and made progress in the regular. Does that not mean anything anymore?

I think we are jumping ship to soon on the guy

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 11:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Needs a lot more reps

I’m just supposin’ here, of course…

Jarrett strikes me as a guy with a world of talent that really needs to get playing time for it to develop. He can try stuff in practices, but it’s only in games where the light bulb is going to come on. Unfortunately, with Moose on the roster he won’t get that opportunity in our offense.

So it will probably be another “wait until next year” year, and he’ll get cut and star somewhere else. Or he’ll re-sign and start at WR next year, at which time we’ll actually find out if it was a good pick.

In the meantime, Kenny Moore will be our slot receiver, as he should be.

by Cyberjag on Sep 3, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...

If it’s a matter of getting reps, he’s seen plenty of reps in preseason games…against sub-par competition by going against the 2’s and 3’s before…and yet, he still hasn’t produced. Tonight’s game against Pittsburgh should be a HUGE litmus test. He and Kenny Moore should see significant playing time on the field at the same time. Let’s see who Jake, McCown, and Matt Moore find with the ball. If Kenny winds up getting better separation because he runs better routes and Dwayne hardly ever sees the ball, then I chalk it up to Jarrett not making the most of his reps…not because someone didn’t give him enough opportunities.

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jarrett strikes me as a guy with a world of talent, but he doesn’t really care or apply himself to be an NFL player.

From failing to get the playbook down, to off the field issues… it really has been a mess. I thought with us bringing Moose back he’d have a consummate veteran who plays a very similar game to groom him and teach him about being a professional. It seems he’s gotten the off the field stuff sorted out, but not the on the field. I’ll be interested to see what happens tonight.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least give him a season before writing him off!

Again he played well last pre and regular seasons. Let’s not nix him after only 3 measely preseason games.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

This is a 'what have you done for me lately' league

And he’s been pretty abysmal lately. Not just his production, but his lack of seperation, horrible route running etc.

When you’re about to lose your job to an undrafted FA something’s wrong. Jarrett got more chances and produced less than Keary Colbert did before we shipped him out of town… Colbert at least had the 2004 season on his resume.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus Jarrett doesn’t fit in on special teams or in the return game (at least that I have seen)… This year he MUST produce or we need to move in another direction. (of course you could say that about a bunch of Panthers)

by docnolz on Sep 3, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

But it sounds like some of us here think they should pull the plug on him now. If he doesn’t produce this year then part ways, but at least let the season start first

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 5:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I expect he'll get his chances this season...

…as in, he’ll make the 53-man roster (unless someone cuts a WR that makes it to us on the waiver wire and we like them better). But the real question is going to be if Jarrett can make the game-day 45 active players or not. Given what you’ve seen so far, do you think they’ll activate Jarrett and Moore…or will they activate Goodson and Moore…or Jarrett and Goodson? Because I have a feeling he might be the odd man out again and not even see the field as consistently because of everyone who’s flashed more in front of him.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In other words...

Goodson gets activated for kickoffs as a KR…but he’s also a WR3/WR4 in certain sets. And Kenny Moore probably gets activated as a PR and a WR3/WR4. Given all the other players the Panthers will need to activate from game to game, how many times will Jarrett be activated with those other two guys? Maybe about as often as last year? I don’t think that’’ll give him the number of opportunties to distinguish himself. But we’ll see…

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he's inactive game one...

Then the staff are idiots for hyping up their former #2 pick all camp, and then not giving him a shot. But if after a few games he goes inactive due to a lack of productivity, then that’s obviously Jarrett’s fault.

I’m siding with the reports about him from the staff and players until I see otherwise in a real game.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

some of that depends on the FB/RB spots

and how healthy Stewart is… If the team carries 2 fullbacks, Goodson, Stewart, and Williams then special teams play may become a must to make the gameday roster.

by docnolz on Sep 3, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said before the last game that Jarrett needed to step it up

I assumed they’d target him often, to see how valuable he could be. It was a meaningless exhibition, after all, and the starters were gonna play up to 3/4 of the game. Perfect chance to show the coaches what he’s got against an opponent, not a training camp teammate.

So what happens? He gets exactly one pass thrown his way, a simple smoke screen that anybody could catch, nothing in traffic, over the middle, slant, deep, nothing.

He’s not in the camera often. so I can’t say for sure, but from what I have seen of him leaving the LOS, he doesn’t show very elusive moves to gain separation — as, say, Kenneth Moore has.

So I conclude this is his last chance tonight — either he shows something, or he’s a bust and will rarely make the game roster. He’s got the size and the hands — and the college success — to make an effective #2WR in the league — but if he can’t shake his defender, he ain’t gonna make it.

by bigdavis on Sep 3, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the things I noted...

…were the types of offensive plays we ran against the Ravens. For instance, after Goodson ran laterally with the ball on the initial kickoff and we got stuck with starting field position at the 15 yard line. The very first play we ran after that was a toss-left to Goodson who was already lined up to the left just behind Delhomme. Goodson took that ball and burst down the field with his speed for a significant gain before the DBs and OLB could even register where the ball had gone. Then, the refs flagged the play on a ticky-tack foul and called it back. Still, we showed a lot of promise with that one.

Later, I also remember an interesting play where Rosario lined up left and took just a couple of steps upfield after the snap. Jake threw past the DE or OLB who had come around the same corner and Dante turned that ball upfield and picked up 25 yards. Similarly, we threw a big gainer downfield to Jeff King and generally involved our TEs very well in the passing game. If we can do more of that throughout the season, it’ll keep the LBs hesitating on every play and buy Jake more time. The combination of play-action with our stable of RBs should help with that, too.

Lastly, on defense, I’m encouraged by how well we stood up to the run. Some of that might be because the Ravens didn’t do as much of it. They very specifically wanted to work on their passing game against us. But, still, there were plays where they ran their big guys trying to get smash-mouth yardage and we held them to just 2.6 yards per carry until that big 48-yard rumble in the 4th quarter with the scrubs on the field. It might have been different if Baltimore had stuck with the run and worn us down throughout the game. But, in general, as much as I was worried about the run defense letting us down against a good running team like the Ravens, it was good to see everyone focusing on well on that. The secondary, of course, is a completely different story…

My three-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 8:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually on that Rosario play...

he came in motion from the other side and the defense didn’t adjust. Jake recognized it right away for the nice gain. It was a nice play

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Sep 3, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like the TE involvement

I also like the involvement of the TE in the passing game. As you said giving the LB another threat to worry about is a good thing.

by LittleKing on Sep 3, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed… I think that Barnridge has the chance to really contribute this season. Ahhh how I long for the days where Wesley Walls was a weapon.

by docnolz on Sep 3, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like having all 3 TE's being passing threats

King showed he go down the field, Rosario certainly can and so can Barnidge. Also those pundits the past two drafts saying the Panthers needed to draft an early round TE need to stand corrected!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Sep 3, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although I agree with you...

part of me will always wonder what would have happened if we traded for Tony Gonzalez mid season last year when we were rumored to.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if we will have the luxury of carrying all three tight ends with the extra kicker and the defensive issues but it sure would be a nice luxury to have.

by docnolz on Sep 3, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Three TEs

We traditionally carry three TEs. It’s not a luxury either — all three were active for every game last season. We use two TE sets with some frequency and you need an extra for depth. They’re also very useful for special teams.

by TheMightyM on Sep 4, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any links to...

the trade rumors for the guy form KC?

by rawjem01 on Sep 3, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You mean DT Alfonso Boone...?

Some speculation has the Panthers waiting until Week 2 to decide it we want to claim him. The guy has already cleared waivers and he’s a free agent sitting at home right now, I think. The reason the Panthers might want to wait until Week 2 is that they won’t have to guarantee his salary if they grab him then vs. having him on the roster opening day. He’s also a bit more costly than they might want to pay for a DT…so that’s yet another reason to avoid guaranteeing his salary if they do sign him.

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we assume JStew will be fine?

I think he has proven he can play through pain. But no training camp, no preseason action… It’s almost a week til Game 1 and he still has his foot on a gurney! Last year he got time in camp and preseason. I’m not confident he can just waltz back in.

I think we should put Goodson at #2 until JStew is healthy. Give the goods a chance to showcase, and teach Stew a lesson about sitting out.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

wait, wait, wait...

So you’re advocating that we give Jarrett a break because this is only his 3rd season… yet Jonathan Stewart needs to be ‘(taught) a lesson about sitting out’? Your logic doesn’t really make sense to me.

Stewart is going to be fine, he’s a proven 800 yard back and a valuable commodity. The Panthers are handling him with kid gloves because they know how vital it is to the offense. Goodson has been a very, very pleasant surprise, but with his propensity to fumble I don’t want him any where near to #2 on the depth chart, not yet.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

…in addition, even if Fox decides to hold Stewart back in Week 1 and start Goodson (which isn’t too much of a stretch of the imagination as Fox generally prefers to go with guys who practiced over those who didn’t)…then he can have another week of rest…come back for the Atlanta game…test himself and his ankle to see how it holds up…rest it again if need be and pick up an extra day of rest until the Monday nighter against Dallas. And then, if it’s still causing him problems, at least he gets the Bye week after that to have it further assessed.

But all in all, I’m going with the Panthers just being overly cautious as opposed to “OMG, something’s wrong! Push the panic button! Trade Stewart now! Sit him in favor of Goodson!”

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Sep 3, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's exactly what I'm saying

Jarrett’s issues this year are not from a lack of effort. He’s caught almost everything thrown to him. Yes he needs to improve somethings, but the entire team have been supporting him 100%. That’s a far cry from the days when teammates were calling him out during interviews. I say give him a chance because that’s what the team is saying.

Nobody is doubting Stewarts abilities. But you do not sit a backup player out for 5+ weeks just to be cautious. Maybe you do that with a all-pro veteran, but not a 2nd year backup. Why is Smitty already back? Moose? Why is Beason chompin at the bit to get back, even ahead of schedule?

Maybe Im wrong about it being in Stewarts head. But One things for sure, he is not missing all this time just out of caution… Somethings up.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

(Jarrett's) caught almost everything thrown to him.

He’s only caught 2 passes this preseason…. 2….. I would hope he caught almost everything!

Every game tape I review Jarrett is unable to get any kind of seperation from DBs and he seems completely unable to use his frame to his advantage.

As for Stewart… it’s career fears for him. He believes that the toe injury caused him to over compensate, which in turn caused the achilles injury. If he didn’t have a history of leg injuries you’d see him out there, but I think it’s more serious than Smitty’s injury and he doesn’t have a blog like Beason to tell us how ready he is.

The kid played his entire senior season at Oregon on a toe that needed to be surgically reparied… the entire season. Let that sink in……. Now, I really don’t think it’s a pyschoscematic response that is keeping him out. I just think he’s a little banged up and they don’t want to risk throwing him into meaningless games at one of the most contact heavy positions (barring linemen).

I think we should see him wanting to get a second opinion as a postive. Lord knows I’d rather lose him for 2-3 games if he gets a bad diagnosis than potentially shortening his career by making him play.

by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We knew Jarrett was going to get a lot of separation

He’s not that fast. But the catches I have seen, going back to last year, were all about him using his body. Could it be that Jakes just not throwing to him? I mean he does tend to favor his reliables… And most of Moore’s catches were quick passes before he got into coverage.

And why would Fox be so cautious with a backup RB, but immediately put his #1 RB and WR back in action, before anyone thought they’d be back. I guess we disagree… I just think Stewart is the one sitting himself out.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Sep 3, 2009 4:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

HE'S NOT HOLDING HIMSELF OUT!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about that. Now that I have your attention, the STAFF is holding Stewart out, they know how valuable he is to the team, have we already forgotten how helpful he is, to the defense too. He helps them down to the turf with a firm and steady hand. : D I think Neil put it perfectly when he said, “OMG, something’s wrong! Push the panic button! Trade Stewart now! Sit him in favor of Goodson!”

by Flowing Willow on Sep 5, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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