Playing the "What If??" game with Jake Delhomme
The season hasn't even started yet, and already fans have begun criticizing Jake Delhomme. Darin Gantt reports that in the press box of the Ravens game someone stated that Delhomme wouldn't start for any other team in the league.
Tell that to fans in Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, Cleveland, Detroit, Kansas City, etc... and see what they think.
Jake bashing has almost become a sport in the Carolinas. In six years the Panther quarterback has gone from a franchise savior who inspired a line of "Got Jake?" t-shirts to the most often cited reason for failure on the team. Through it all the quarterback who people love to call inconsistent has posted the following ratings: 80.6, 87.3, 88.1, 82.6, 111.8 (over three games only), and 84.7.
Aside from his short season, where he was very good indeed, Delhomme has been consistently average as far as stats are concerned.
As far as winning, he's been consistently good with a 49-30 record, but despite the haters' proclivity for blaming Delhomme for losses, he gets no credit for victories at all.
But this isn't about whether or not it's fair to hate Jake, that's been written about to death.
This article is about the "what-if?" game that Panthers fans love to play. What if Kasay hadn't kicked that ball out of bounds? What if Collins hadn't had his meltdown? What if we never traded for Gilbert? What if they drafted Tom Brady in the fifth? (That thought is shared by 31 other teams around the league, for what it's worth). What if...?
There will always be the nuts who say "What if the Panthers had executed a four-way deal with Peppers and Denver and Chicago and whoever and ended up with a stud defensive end and Jay Cutler?", but those scenarios aren't realistic.
How about this one--What if Fox wasn't such a good coach that we would get a top five pick in the draft one year? Getting a franchise quarterback is difficult even if you do have a high pick to spend. Without one, the only hope you have is to find a diamond in the rough and spend a few years polishing it on the bench.
Well, in Fox's first year as the Carolina coach, the Panthers had the second overall pick. With it they took Julius Peppers, and in doing so passed on the opportunity to draft Joey Harrington. Even the most bitter fan out there would probably acknowledge that it was the smart thing to do.
The Panthers went out and got some stability at QB with free agent Rodney Peete, and then in the 2003 offseason they picked up Jake Delhomme from the New Orleans' Saints. Delhomme, of course, led the Panthers to their lone Super Bowl appearance, and was credited with leading many of the Panthers come-from-behind wins that year.
2003 also represents the first lost opportunity for the Panthers. After the draft the Dallas Cowboys picked up UDFA Tony Romo and gave him a roster spot. The Panthers were happy with Peete and Weinke at the time, and no one would have given the Eastern Illinois product a second look had the Panthers picked him up. He probably wouldn't have made the roster in Dallas had Quincy Carter not had a substance abuse problem.
Regardless, 2003 represents the Panthers first big "What if..." moment surrounding Jake. If they had given up on Weinke and signed Romo the UDFA, then they would have a potential replacement for Delhomme on the roster right now. But they didn't, and there was no reason to at the time.
In 2004 Jake Delhomme was the toast of Charlotte. He had just led the Panthers to the Super Bowl, Carolina had it's quarterback of the future, and everyone was wearing shades. The free agent market for quarterbacks wasn't particularly good anyway (headed by such luminary figures as Billy Volek and Shaun King), so the Panthers did nothing there.
Frank Garcia was on the street for a day, but he's a west coast offense QB who commanded a four year, 25 million dollar deal. Fans would have run Hurney out of town if he made that deal, especially given the overall mood towards Jake. Kurt Warner was available for two days, but he had been terrible in his final two years in St. Louis and was considered lucky to catch on in New York.
In the draft, Carolina had a shot at Matt Schaub, giving some fans a reach for a "What If?" moment, but had they gotten him it would have probably cost a late selection and they would have missed on Travelle Wharton, who was taken in the same round. The Panthers elected to stand pat at quarterback, and no one could blame them.
Once the season started, the wheels came off the bandwagon. Steve Smith, Stephen Davis, and Kris Jenkins all had season-ending injuries early in the year. The Panthers finished the season with their top four running backs on injured reserve, and a total of 14 of their players made that list.
Through it all, including a 1-7 start, Delhomme showed a marked improvement on the year before. With no running game and no star receiver, he still threw for 29 touchdowns and reduced his interceptions from the year before. The Panthers had problems, but he wasn't one of them by a long shot. Carolina also went 6-2 in it's last eight games, which provided cause for optimism for the 2005 year.
In the 2005 draft the Panthers selected Thomas Davis, which provides our second "What if?" moment. Carolina joined nine other clubs in electing not to take Aaron Rodgers, who was the second quarterback selected, and who was also expected to be taken in the top ten. Rodgers landed in Green Bay, where be was allowed to develop behind Brett Favre before finally getting his opportunity in 2008.
In the 2005 season the Panthers were again hit by injuries, but this time overcame them to reach the NFC Championship. In this game, Jake had his first real meltdown as the Carolina quarterback. Seattle blanketed Steve Smith with triple coverage, running back Nick Goings was knocked out early with a concussion, and Seattle held the ball for nearly 42 minutes in the contest.
Delhomme threw three interceptions against one touchdown, and posted a rating of 34.9. For fans looking for a reason to hate on the quarterback, this was like manna from heaven. They at last had a real justification to go after the quarterback. The chants of "Start Weinke" were being prepared on message boards and blogs around the region.
After the season the Panthers were looking to get depth at wide receiver and running back. Despite one bad game, Jake was still considered by many to be a clutch performer and a very solid starter. After all, prior to the Seattle game he had posted great numbers in convincing road playoff wins in New York and Chicago, and he was selected to represent the NFC in the 2005 Pro Bowl.
Sure, there were a handful of haters waiting in the wings, but no one really cared to listen to them. There was no reason.
But in the 2006 offseason, the Panthers had a pretty big "What if" moment, along with most other teams around the league. Drew Brees was released by San Diego, and snatched up by the New Orleans Saints. Granted, Brees was coming off of shoulder surgery. He had also posted decent, but not great numbers in San Diego. In five years there he had a 30-28 record with a quarterback rating of 84.9. By comparison, Jake was 28-19 in Carolina with a rating of 85.3.
Brees didn't seem like an improvement on Jake to anyone. Many projected him as the third best quarterback in the NFC South, behind Delhomme and Michael Vick. Still, given how things have turned out this was a big "What If?" moment for a lot of teams. Hindsight will do that for you.
Once the 2006 season started, the sport of Jake bashing really started to take off. He was still posting the same basic numbers he had since arriving in Carolina, but fans wanted more. Enough time had passed for fans to forget the 1-15 season that Chris Weinke had orchestrated as a rookie, and he was often touted as a viable alternative to Jake, even as an improvement.
Helping Jake bashers spread discontent was a general feeling that Dan Henning was too predictable and the team just wasn't dominant on defense. Keyshawn Johnson was also on the roster, and it may be a coincidence but when Delhomme stepped up to take blame for losses somehow people were more willing to give it to him than they had been in years past.
In particular, last second losses to Cincinnatti and Philadelphia both happened when Jake failed to connect in the end zone with Keyshawn. But taking one play and choosing to cast the entire game in it's context is the type of thing done by those who want change, and has no place here.
As the starter Jake went 7-6, but the team just couldn't stop anyone when it counted and the Panthers never really got a running game going. When they went 1-2 with Chris Weinke under center, Carolina missed the playoffs. Henning was fired, Keyshawn released, and the fans who had been the loudest with the "Start Weinke" cries and shouts kind of shut up and went back into their holes.
The detractors soon re-emerged though, energized as they had never been. In the 2007 offseason, Carolina entered free agency and got one of the biggest prizes. Former number one overall pick David Carr had been released by the Texans, and signed with the Panthers.
To some, this came with or caused another "What If" moment though, as during the draft Carolina decided to trade down instead of selecting Brady Quinn with the 14th selection. The picks they traded for resulted in Jon Beason and Ryan Kalil, so this may not be the "What If" that gets people to pay attention, given that Quinn hasn't won anything and the other two are starters.
But the Panthers had David Carr instead of Chris Weinke, and already people were predicting that he would win the starting job from Jake in no time. Then Delhomme messed things up by posting a 111.8 rating through the first three games before going down for the year with an elbow injury. Carr took over, was ineffective in comparison to Delhomme, and battled injuries himself as Vinny Testaverde and Matt Moore finished out the season for the Panthers.
In 2008 the Panthers tapped free agency again, releasing Carr and signing Josh McCown. They retained Matt Moore as the backup, and prepared for Delhomme's return from Tommy John surgery. In the draft they inadvertently provided fans with another "What If?" moment by passing on Joe Flacco to draft Jonathan Stewart.
No one at the time suggested that it was a mistake, and given Stewart's production during the season it's not likely anyone would take them seriously had they done so. Hindsight may someday change some minds, but for now this isn't a very strong "What If?" to bash Fox and Hurney over.
Through 16 games in 2008 Delhomme posted a passer rating of 84.7 en route to leading the Panthers to a 12-4 record. Matt Moore looked pretty bad in the preseason, and no one wanted to seriously see McCown take over for Delhomme. Delhomme had a couple of fairly poor games, but overall his numbers were good and he orchestrated several come-back victories for the Panthers.
Then another gift from the sky fell--five of them actually. Against Arizona in the playoffs, Jake threw five interceptions and lost a fumble in an ugly loss to the Cardinals. For those who like to criticize the starting quarterback, this was a gift for them to hold on to the entire offseason.
The free agent class included Kurt Warner, who was resigned by the Cardinals, Matt Cassell, who ended up in Kansas City, Jeff Garcia, who is in Oakland, Kyle Orton, Rex Grossman, Kerry Collins, and Kyle Boller. It's not likely that any of the ones the Panthers had a chance at would have been a big improvement over Delhomme in 2009, but even if they had the Panthers didn't have any money for a big free agent signing.
The Panthers also had no first round pick in the draft, but they traded into the second round to take Everett Brown. Brown was taken immediately before Pat White, to the angst of wildcat fans, but the jury will be out on the wisdom of that pick for years. Until then, Jake Delhomme is likely to line up under center for the Panthers, and fans will continue to say "What if?"
What if the Panthers had signed or drafted Tony Romo in 2003? What if they had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Thomas Davis? What if they had signed Drew Brees?
And those are really the only fair "What if?" questions they have. In all the years that the Panthers have relied on Delhomme, there have really been only three realistic opportunities to replace him with something better. Flacco has had one good season, and it wasn't as good as Jake's. Quinn is still unproven. There were three, and at the time none of them made much sense.
When you look at the starting quarterbacks around the league, and particularly at those who might represent an improvement on Delhomme, most of them share one of two common traits. They were either taken high in the first round (Rivers, Pennington, Manning (both Peyton and Eli), Ryan, McNabb, Cutler) or they were given plenty of time to develop before coming into their own as premier quarterbacks (Romo, Brees, Rodgers, Schaub).
Then there are the free agents that have a little life left after all, like Warner and Garcia, and the occasional surprise, like Jake Delhomme. But the most common trait of all is that quarterbacks usually star for the teams that take the time to develop them.
Matt Moore is the third quarterback on the Panthers roster. He's another undrafted free agent, and has already gotten some NFL starting experience. He's demonstrated some good intangibles, like leadership and a knack for moving the ball, and he has a decent pedigree. It wasn't enough to get him drafted, but it may be enough to build on as the Panthers attempt to shape him into a NFL-caliber starting quarterback.
In 2010, the draft will be deep at the quarterback position. The Panthers won't have a first round pick, so don't start thinking of Bradford or Tebow. But it's conceivable that Colt McCoy, Pat Devlin, Zac Robinson, or someone of similar skill will be available when they do get to pick
And Jake is locked up as the starter in Carolina for what will likely be the remainder of his career, giving a potential draft pick plenty of time to develop.
So if you like to say we need to get rid of Delhomme now, think about the alternatives. Over the years, there really haven't been many, and none that made a lot of sense at the time.
But the future will bring change, just because it always does. And if Moore develops, or if the Panthers get a future star in the 2010 draft, and have time to bring him along, then the change will be good.
On the other hand, maybe the Jake haters will get their way and he'll somehow be lost for the season again, just like he was in 2007.
But if that happens, be prepared to answer another question when the season goes south. "What if we still had Jake?"
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83 comments
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Comments
Damn!
That was like reading a really good short story.
Very impressive, sir.
by bigdavis on Sep 1, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great article
I agree – great read, I just wish that the Panthers could show some sort of plan for where they are heading after Jake…
by docnolz on Sep 1, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
matt moore's development isnt a plan?
he did very well against three playoff teams with our HORRIBLE offense in 2007, what if you gave him the keys to our running game now?
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 1, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if you did...
he would step on his own feet and lose confidence. Give him another year behind Jake, let him beat out McCown next year, and see what happens.
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent article...
Great points throughout! Really enjoyed reading it.
by bwsmith25 on Sep 1, 2009 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good read
But I disagree with you analysis of Tebow…. it will take a small miracle for him to be a 1st round draft pick because of the spread offense. I would be surprised if he goes high in the second round.
by James The Aussie on Sep 1, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
We have a decent shot at Tebow… if we so choose.
by Tater596 on Sep 1, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think tebow is an NFL qb
but i could be wrong
by carolinabrave89 on Sep 1, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Matt Moore is?
You indicated in an earlier reply that Moore is the long term solution.
by Tater596 on Sep 1, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally, Someone with a REAL eye for football
I like SEC football as much as the next guy, but I must say; the Tebow statment is freakin PRICELESS! Words cannot describe how much i agree with you. I think tim Tebow is a Winner, but a great QB, I beg to differ. It isn’t about what he has shown me so far (because all he has done is win ball games) it more about what he hasn’t shown me. He has shown that he can and will run linebackers over at the drop of a dime. Great if your a fullback, or an Adrian Peterson, but QBs aren’t supposed to take anyone head on. If any other QB on any football team in the world did that they would be chewed out faster that a peice of Pez. But when your a two time national champ that’s what happens. Unfortuantly as a quarterback that’s all he will ever be at that position, a COLLEGE CHAMPION. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing there is only one per year. However what i am saying is he just a good college player. On the next level he’s going to be forced to learn a lot quickly or learn a new postion. Why would I assume he is going to be a great pro? He doesn’t run a pro style offense, he has more bigger better weapons than any other QB in the nation, for the last three years he has had the most explosive player in the backfeild (or in the slot…Percy Harvin), a defense that is faster than most offenses and line than could block a heard of Rabid Rhinos. So I guess my real question is how do you not win as much as he has. Do you really think Tebow would be this hyped if he played in San Jose, or at CAL or the Illinois, or Wake Forest. Yeah he knows how to move the chains, but
In the world of QB’s the dicision to take a linebacker on head first would be considered a “BAD DECISION” but in the great state of FLA you let you Stars do whatever they like. Last time I checked bad decision leads to one of two things, a drop in draft stock or a change of position. For big SEC QB’s this means Position change just ask Matt Jones. Oh yeah he’s not in the NFL anymore. So yes I agree TEBOW IS NOT A FIRST ROUND QB, HE’S NOT EVEN A SECOND ROUND QB. I know he will be drafted but I see a friday night selection (aka 2nd day) at best. If we are going to get a QB I want someone who can be plugged in and play week 1 if not stick with Jake He’s a winner and more importantly HE’S OUR QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF this statement bothers you go get a new team , cause in Carolina We don’t need fans who have jumped on this 30 TD bandwagon (fair weather fans).
by bobbydrake24 on Sep 1, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw what the title was
and thought, oh no,"not another “Jake Delhomme stinks as a quarterback article” but it wasn’t exactly that. Thank you. Jake is an average QB and that is what he always will be. He fits what the Panthers try to do and I think from what you have shown John Fox is going to stick with him for a while longer.
I would love to have a better QB, but the team doesn’t see fit to upgrade that position for whatever reason. Steve Smith has made Delhomme look a lot better than he probably was last year, but the team appears to like Jake, which definitely helps.
I am rambling, but basically I am saying we are stuck with him for better or worse.
by bengoodfella on Sep 1, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tebow
I really want us to get Tebow, and I think he will be a top 3 pick. If he wins the Heisman again, and another national championship, he will be the 1st overall pick.
Besides that, I think there are some young guys we should get that may develop into great players, but they will be works in progress and will need a couple years behind Jake to mature. I like Josh Johnson and Brian Brohm. Kevin Kolb might be a good pick-up as well, but there’s no guarantee that any of these will be better than Matt Moore.
I think when we discuss Jake, talking about his stats isn’t right. Jake is a leader and other players play better, harder and smarter when he’s on the field. That’s why he was a high winning percentage, not because of his passing. If Eli Manning had Jake’s leadership, they could have won it all with Tiki Barber, Shockey, and kept Burress out of trouble. But Manning needed guys to leave before he could get control of the team. Jake makes people want to play better. That’s what makes him special, not his QB rating. Other coaches know that, and that’s why they would love to have him. And let’s face it, if you got Brees, Manning, Brady, or whoever, that doesn’t mean you want to throw it 50 times a game. Brees would love a 299 yard game from his RBs. That would mean they’re winning.
by usana_gaines on Sep 1, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tebow?
I doubt it, but we’ll have to see. :)
Regarding Jake and his leadership, that story’s been done to death. I honestly think he’s a better quarterback than Brees, because I put a lot of stock in the ability to win games. But those story’s have been done to death. No one wants to debate on whether he’s a better quarterback or even good enough, the haters just want to get rid of him.
And when they do, there’s never an alternative offered outside of the mythical four team trade that nets us Carson Palmer or someone like that.
It just gets old. :)
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Post
Enjoyed every word of it. And Tim Tebow DO NOT WANT
"A Tar Heel Born and a Tar Heel bred, and when i die ill be a Tar Heel dead."
by mad_dog_maddux on Sep 1, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry....
Hurney/Fox will never draft a QB in the first 4 rounds.
by docnolz on Sep 1, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell that to Stefan Lefors
Fourth round pick of the Panthers who didn’t stick.
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stefan did stick...sorta
but Panthers didn’t move him along fast enough and Chicago signed him off the practice squad. Still my point remains that QB position is vitally important and never addressed in the early rounds of the draft by the Carolina Panthers.
by docnolz on Sep 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stefan stuck in the CFL.
Basanez was better and he was a UDFA.
It’s good that they took a shot on LeFors, but he just proved that Louisville can’t produce a solid NFL quarterback (ask Chris Redman, Dave Ragone, and Brian Brohm about that…). :)
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Article
This really puts things in perspective. Jake is not the devil. He is also not the second coming. He’s a good fit for our offense.
by mdpantherfan on Sep 1, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The biggest "What If"
In my opinion is taking Thomas Davis over Aaron Rodgers. Of course hindsight is always 20/20, but Rodgers has become one of the best QBs in the league. This entire preseason, the Packers have been firing on all cylinders behind his arm, and they look to have a really good shot at the super bowl.
As a Jake Hater… I think we can all agree. We don’t want Jake to be injured, and any true Panther fan will line up and cheer him on on game day. But we would like to see a plan for the future sooner rather than later. It is time to have a plan in place for the post-Jake era. Our team is young, and talented, and we should be developing a young QB to lead them right now.
by Tater596 on Sep 1, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the one I honed in on too
The Rodgers thing just makes you smack your head and say “Doh!”
We couldn’t afford Brees at the time, and it made no sense. Romo is just stupid to consider. But the Rodgers thing could have happened. Then again, had it happened he would have taken the reins two years ago and might have been ruined.
So you never know…
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wholeheartedly disagree
Bottomline, Jake is average at best & the Panthers can do better. His game breaking inconsistant turnover performance against Arizona sealed the deal. Im sick of hearing about what he did in the past, hes not the late 20’s, hungry, accurate guy he was in 2003. Hes now a 30 something, turnover machine thats had serious surgery on his elbow. I think the homers are way too nostalgic with Delhomme. The Panthers & the fans treat him like hes a son. Its ok Jake, you can throw ten int’s & we still love you!! You can have 20 turnovers but your still staying in the game because we believe in you!! They sweep Jakes mistakes under the rug & give him chance, after chance, after chance to produce the same mediocre results. Everyone in the sports world said the reason the Panthers would not get far last year & the years before would be because of Delhommes inconsistant play & guess what??? They were right!! Hes a choke artist, he completely blew a realistic shot at a superbowl last year. He will always be remembered for his 6 turnovers in my mind no matter what he does from here on out. That was inexcusable for a so called veteran but what do the Panthers & fans do….they sweep it under the rug, give some lame excuse for it, pat him on the back & say its ok son, we will reward your terrible play with a contract extension!! Delhomme will be the reason the Panthers stall on offense this year. When hes reached 15 ints by October of this year, Im not going to say a word.
"one is the loneliest number that youll ever see"
by D.W.G. on Sep 1, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's just great
Post an alternative, ok? Go ahead and slam Jake, but identify where we could have done better, with who, and what we would have given up when you do. It’s a fair question.
And prior to the playoff meltdown, Jake had a fine season by just about any standard.
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hear what you're saying
no one can argue what he’s done in the past that’s positive just like everyone knows about last playoff game. but i want you to answer this, do you think he has anything to do with the other guys performing better? how much credit does he deserve for last year’s 12-4 record? what qb has a better record over the last five years? some come to mind, sure, but it’s a short list…manning, brady, jeff garcia, steve mcnair, brett favre. i agree he has been inconsistent, but you can’t underestimate the efficiency of the offense when he runs it. what i would like you to do is compare him to troy aikman’s stats. troy retired with a career rating of 81 and his best weapon was throwing it to irvin all the time, or handing it off to emmitt. what made troy great? his leadership and his wins and losses compared to other qbs. look it up and offer and honest opinion.
by usana_gaines on Sep 1, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering
That he has never had more than 16 INT’s in a season and throughout his career averages less than 1 INT a game, I think it is safe to assume he won’t have 15 by October.
I know your stance on Delhomme and you know mine and I think that Delhomme haters do have an argument (even though I disagree with it). But if you’re going to argue it, just use facts, not numbers that you wish were true.
by R-F on Sep 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you even read the article?
The whole point is that they really couldn’t do much better. There’s just not been an obvious choice that the Panthers could have gotten that would have been all that much better.
Do I hope Moore makes the leap, and Jake can ride off into the sunset? Absolutely! Am I glad that he quit throwing Pick-6’s on Out Routes? Yes! Do I wish he’d look to someone other then #89 every now and again? yes.
Does he play Defense? Nope. Is he the one making all the holding penalties in the Pre-Season? No.
Will I still be watching the games? Yes. Cursing his (and everyone else’s misakes) and cheering for the one-handed, toe-tap catches in the corner of the End Zone, and all the other plays that all 53 players make.
by panthersnbraves on Sep 1, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jake is like the old dog that hoble’s around that you feel sorry for,but nobody can just seam to put him down.Still he is the best we have,but maybe one of the backup’s one day will step up.
by caniacpanther on Sep 1, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
James The Aussie
I forgot to mention, this entire article was inspired by James The Aussie’s excellent fanpost about what our QB situation could be.
Thanks James, you’re a great fan. :)
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate it Cyberjag
All I really did was a bare bones, by the numbers analysis. I really like your more narrative style : )
Whoever that was in the Ravens’ press box is obviously gifted with innane hyperbole, or doesn’t know anything about football. Here is my list of teams who would be starting Jake Delhomme right now if they had the option:
- 49ers
- Buccaneers
- Lions
- Browns
- Broncos
- Bills
And that’s being conservative. Realistically, unless Colt McCoy wins the Heisman and Snead has a godawful season we could be looking at our pick of either McCoy or Tebow at QB in the second rd.
Alot of mocks have Bradford #1 and Snead #2 as the QB goes and there aren’t alot of teams who will be looking to take a QB in the first two rounds.
The perfect storm is gathering Panther fans for us to end up with the QB of the future in the second or third round in 2010 when any other year they would be a 1st rounder simply because the QB class is so deep and other teams have filled their need for the future.
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Tim Hiller?
The draft will be heavy on offensive linemen, pushing some good QB prospects down. Hiller is one of them that may fly under the radar a little, at least until the combine. Great size, experienced, and plays under center a lot (i.e. not a system QB). Two others I like are Dan LeFevour and Zac Robinson. All three will need some bench time behind the starter though, and I think if any of them can get a couple of years coaching up, they can be a star.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hiller is a good option, no doubt
But if we’re honestly looking at the possibility of Colt McCoy then I think we have to take him. No ifs, ands, or buts.
The only thing that could change this is if a blue chip DT falls.
Another thing that could make the draft intriguing next year is Peppers. Will he resign? Will he holdout? We will have a full offseason to shop him with a trade if he values a change of scenery more than being franchised again. Most likely, even with a trade we’d be looking at a second rounder at best.
If Fox and co. fall in love with a QB prospect I would not put it outside the realm of possibility to package two 2nd rounders and 2011’s 1st to move all the way up into the top 10 and get a Bradford or Snead. You just never know.
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about McCoy
He’s a shotgun QB in a spread offense, so you know those numbers are gonna be a little artificially high.
I see him as the next David Carr.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I expect...
…the Panthers will look for D-linemen and O-linemen to shore up depth or find a new starter with our 2nd and 3rd round picks next year. If we go shopping for a QB, it’ll be a late rounder. And, in all honesty, I don’t expect we’ll do that unless Jake really blows up again this year. More likely, we’ll play this whole season with him and probably look to have him at the helm again next year as we focus on restocking the blue-collar positions on the team.
Once we do go looking for a QB, it might not even be through the draft. I think Fox and Hurney have shown a tendency to raid other teams with decent backup QBs who become free agents. It’s how we acquired Jake, after all. We did something similar in trying out David Carr (though that obviously didn’t work out). But I could see them doing that again rather than searching for a new franchise QB via the draft.
My two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 2, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of disagree
I think that next year is the perfect time to get a QB. Jake is good for a few more years, Moore is nice insurance, and the situation is ideal to get someone and bring him along. The lines are DEEP, so we can get quality depth late on both sides.
Honestly, I think they’ll go BPA like they’ve been doing, but if the early choice is a QB they like vs. any other player, they’ll take the QB.
If there is none to be had, then FA is the route. I just like the chances next year because of the class.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it could go either way...
…they’ll certainly review their options. And they’ve shown themselves capable of taking the “best player available” when the situation warrants it, regardless of position. But I think they’ve shown a tendency to NOT take risks at QB and look for “veteran” backup QBs who become free agents on other teams. They’ve also demonstrated a strategy of drafting to build depth. We kept all of our draft picks from last year. And it looks like we may keep all of them from this year’s draft, too. We’re getting really young as a result. And I’m not sure we’re going to necessarily look to do that again and again in the future drafts, particularly at the QB position (in terms of our starter).
But who really knows? My opinion is just based on what I’ve observed them do so far in the draft and free agency…and a general impression I’ve formed regarding their philosophy in those areas. Then again, Fox and Hurney are entirely capable of changing their philosophy based on need and the circumstances. If we don’t re-sign Julius Peppers, and if we get something for him in trade and recoup all that money back under our salary cap, maybe we do get creative and make a move for a long-term franchise QB. Anything’s possible.
—Neil
by NSpicer on Sep 2, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Article
I think the analysis is dead on… Jake will not put up monster stats that make him a top tier fantasy QB but you can’t judge leadership and desire from outside the locker room. The guys in the locker room can, and that’s why they stand behind Jake. He’s a fiery leader and never gives up. You would think after watching Jake’s never give up attitude over the last several years, it would rub off on some of our fan base. But every season the stands are full of Jerseys from the opposing team and if thing go bad for our guys, say down by a touchdown… empty seats by half time.
by Jp_here on Sep 1, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Disagree
Great article, but in my opinion, every draft prospect is available to every team who is willing to pay the price.
Look at the Jets and Sanchez and the Browns and Quinn. They wanted their guys, and were willing to pay for them. Same can be said about Cutler and the Bears. Were the prices too high for all those guys? Most would say yes, but they were still options.
As for Cassel and Warner vs. Delhomme in 2009 (and beyond for the former) – we can only see.
My gripes are more with the front office than Jake. We haven’t put any real effort (LeFors included) into grooming a replacement.
by the bomb dot com on Sep 1, 2009 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So you would have...
the Panthers send three players, their first round pick, and their second round pick for a player who had one year of starting experience in college? That’s quite a risk, you better hope the QB is worth it. Because they might end up with a Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman, Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, JaMarcus Russell, or Brady Quinn. Those are all first round quarterbacks that haven’t quite worked out as planned.
First round QBs are a risk, as Fox and Hurney have pointed out several times. There’s a reason the Panthers are one of the winningest franchises in the NFL since they took over, and not taking stupid risks is part of it.
Wait for Moore, or the next guy they develop. It will be worth it, and you won’t have to endure a 3-13 season along the way.
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said that.
I’m just saying that limiting the discussion to guys who were easily attainable doesn’t quite cover the entire spectrum.
Some would argue a franchise QB is worth any cost. Those people are called Bears fans.
As for those guys you mentioned, I don’t particularly like any of them, but to dismiss their careers this early may be premature (except for Losman and Grossman- since they’re not currently in the NFL).
As for the Panthers being above taking risks, I think that is also debatable based upon our recent WR draft picks, and 1st round trades the past two years.
Finally, I think Giants wouldn’t trade 2003’s 4-12 for a better record if it meant not landing Eli and an eventual SB ring.
by the bomb dot com on Sep 1, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Had the Giants not made the trade, they would have had Kurt Warner. Give Warner that defense and a three-headed monster running game, and it’s not difficult to imagine that they would have won at least one title. Take it a step further and give them Rivers and Merriman (you have to assume they drafted him like the Chargers did with the pick they got from the Giants), and suddenly it looks like you have a new dominant team in the northeast. Two titles or three maybe?
Take a look at the top ten QBs in the league right now. I’ll call it Brady and Palmer now that they’re back, Rivers, P. Manning, Rodgers, Pennington, Romo, Warner, Brees, and McNabb. Now look at where they came from.
Four were taken high in the first round, out of reach for a team that never goes worse than 7-9. And if you trade up, well there have been more busts than successes among highly drafted QBs. You might sacrifice a lot and end up with JaMarcus Russell or Alex Smith.
Two were taken later in the first, one in the beginning of the second, one in the sixth, and two weren’t drafted at all.
So its not about taking risks. The Panthers should and will be able to find someone next year, or may continue to develop Moore. And when they do, people on other teams will gripe about a missed opportunity. That’s just how it works. :)
by Cyberjag on Sep 1, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I question your selection of top 10 QBs.
Pennington? I think I would plug Cutler into that spot, it’s also possible that I would consider Matt Ryan rather than Palmer. The only thing we know about Palmer, is how good he was 2 years ago, the last time he played a full season. Matt Ryan came in and had a great year as a rookie, and all signs point to a much better season ahead.
Speaking of Matt Ryan, talking about the value of a franchise QB, ask anyone in the Falcon camp who brought them out of one of the worst situations possible and turned them into a winning team in one season. Sure, coaches get some credit, the organization gets credit, other players like Michael Turner get some credit… but I would argue Matt Ryan as a rookie QB had the biggest role to play.
Also, I said it once, and will say it again. Matt Moore is not the next answer at QB.
by Tater596 on Sep 1, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Choose a different 10 then
I went largely by QB rating, I’m not a huge Pennington fan either. But I also cheated McNabb on to the list. It was a judgement thing.
Regarding Cutler, he has a ten dollar arm and a ten cent head. I don’t believe in him in the slightest, he’ll make great plays and still manage to lose the game for you. His rating is a hair higher than Jake’s, his won/loss record is worse, and he’s a prima donna. I don’t like him too much.
I wanted to include Ryan and considered Flacco, but one season isn’t enough. I think that most QBs would have looked great in Atlanta last year, given their schedule and how amazing Turner was. Let him do it again and he can ern his spot.
The point remains that as a long as we continue to do well, with our worst season being 7-9, we won’t have a shot at the blue-chippers. And there are just as many busts in their number than booms. But an equal amount of great quarterbacks can be found later, all you need is time to let them develop.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if he's top 10...
but people are underestimating Matt Hasselbeck.
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot Hass
And he was a sixth round pick who sat for a few years in Green Bay and Seattle before winning the starting job.
Anyone see a trend? :)
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Tebow
is going to cost someone alot of money for realisitically not much in terms of an NFL ready QB. how much are you gona pay to have him wait on the bench 2 maybe 3 years.
by dan_88 on Sep 1, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you're a smart franchise you can tell if a QB is going to be a success or not.
I mean, I called out Jamarcus Russell a long time ago, and several other teams did exactly the same thing. The only problem is that the team at the top of the ladder was the Raiders. Never mind that he had a horrible score on the IQ test or all his mechanical problems, he had a big beautiful arm. That was all it took for Al Davis to choose him.
I think that the problem with some of the QB busts is that they’re selected too high and some of them are thrown into a starting position too quickly. Not everyone can be a Peytan Manning or a Matt Ryan. They still have to earn that job, and with players like JaMarcus Russell that are anointed the starter the instant they land in the franchise, they either get a big head or get rookie year shivers, and it’s no surprise that they throw a horrible rookie year for us all to cry over.
It is my own personal belief that in order to maximize your chances of developing a great QB, you must give him some time on the bench. A QB should only be put on the field when he proves that he can handle the job, not because of desperate need.
That’s the biggest worry I have with the Panthers. The need at QB is not a glaring need, but it is a need irregardless. It’s very tough to find a capable starting QB after the first two rounds, but it can be done if you look at some of the smaller schools in the Sun Belt and other smaller conferences. However, without a 1st round pick in 2010, chances are we’re looking ahead to the 2011 draft before we can choose a starting QB as our first round pick.
Jake Delhomme will be 35 or 36 by then, and he’ll be on the tail end of his career. It is my biggest worry that the fans of this state will anoint him as the starter of this team, and that he’ll let us all down. Not because he never had the potential to be a franchise QB, but because too much expectation, too many responsibilities was thrust upon his rookie shoulders at once and he wasn’t groomed into the position.
That’s just me ranting again though. I’m still trying to think of a good Spicer signature to my comment posts.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
by Revshawn on Sep 1, 2009 11:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't be too sure...
Next year the QB class is deep and talented. Jake has a couple or three years left in him, and Moore can be serviceable for at least a year.
One thing the Panthers have going for them that a lot of other teams don’t—Williams, Stewart, and a great offensive line. That’s a luxury that will allow Jake to play longer, Moore to be effective, and Player X to develop at his own pace.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!!JAKE!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jake is a vet! point blank and period…a vet that knows these recievers and o-line and playbook better than any other vet or rookie u can think of sooooo be glad that he is here still…and for the record from what i saw with my 2 eyes in tc in spartanburg Cantwell looked better than moore and mccown in every way so thats my “what if” but i dont want to see him in play untill week 16 and the panthers are 14-0 and jake is just hangin out waiting for his first round bye to homefield advantage throughout the playoffs….
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 2, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That Carolins Kool-aid must be very potent...
Peppers isn’t even the best DE in this division…
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Sep 2, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the best
No, Peppers is not the best. He’s the most talented.
There’s a big distinction there that makes Panther fans crazy.
by Cyberjag on Sep 2, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know NaGaNole...
but isn’t it a little early to be calling Everette Brown the best DE in the NFC South?
Just kidding… or am I?
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched EB come off the board 3 picks before ATL was set to draft in the 2nd round...
CURSE you Fox/Hunley! I am glad we have William Moore, because he is the perfect strong safety for our system, and is comparable to Bob Sanders. However we had young safeties, what we don’t have a pass rush. ARG..!
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Sep 2, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*is* a pass rush
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Sep 2, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys don't know how good you have had it!
Excuse me for being here because i am a saints fan. however i still follow Jakes career, and pull for the panthers when it doesnt effect the saints. In a perfect world Jake would still be playing for the Saints. If it wasnt’ for a stubborn coach Jim Haslett to decide to play an injured Aaron Brooks over a healthy Jake then Jake would still be a Saint. Also last time I checked Haslett and Brooks are no longer in the NFL…..
As far as Drew Brees goes he is an incredible QB, but i really believe that he is a better QB because of Coach Sean Payton. I’m not sure Bree’s would be as successful in the Panthers offense scheme. Jake has been everything you want and need in a QB, a great leader and a very consistant passer….
by strandedsaint on Sep 2, 2009 2:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points about Haslett and Brooks...
and very insightful about Brees, and a QB’s system having to fit his game.
Thanks for stopping by.
by bigdavis on Sep 2, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great article!!!
DWG, we know where you stand on Jake, let me ask you though, do you give him credit for wins as well as losses?
by Flowing Willow on Sep 2, 2009 3:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
u can play peppers anywhere!
like yall gotta be retarded if u dont c that he is the best…he can play LE RE DT and play all of them very very well…watch that oakland game again doubters….sorry for getting off topic had to respond to these fair weather guys…great article though
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 2, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pep can't play DT... not at all.
He’s not a good enough run stuffer… not by a long shot. He’s far too lean to go up against guards. He’s a fansatic pass rusher (when he feels like it) nothing more, nothing less.
I’m not a Pep ‘hater’ more like a ‘wisher’… like I wish he had a heart to go along with that talent. Asking me to review tape of a 5-11 Raiders team doesn’t show me anything. I want to see that same kind of performance against an 11-5 Falcons team of a 12-4 Steelers team.
Until that happens he’ll always be an ‘A grade’ DE vs. the AA DEs in the league, regardless of numbers.
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trolling is awesome and fun to do.
by bengoodfella on Sep 2, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need to call anyone retarded Steve...we all have opinions
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 2, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok how about this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuYTduJza1c
beast!!!! and umm what other DE runs backs down from behind? i remember peppers running down mike pittman…the guy must of been 20 yards from the LOS…and he can power rush through Guards ive seen him do it…maybe not a every down DT but he can go there and beat his man…there is no other DE that i want playing for the carolina panthers…i wouldnt trade him for any other teams 2 DTs…how about this…when Peppers is playing at 100% heart and effort who is better?
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 2, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you... WHEN Peppers is playing at 100% heart and effort who is better?
Nobody. But that is a big, bold WHEN.
He plays without that fire far too often. I wrote and long and detailed post regarding Peppers’ stats when I first started commenting on this blog. I followed his career over the past 5 seasons and compared it to Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, Justin Tuck, John Abraham and Mario Williams.
In very brief, very abridged summation: Peppers has a vastly higher % of sacks and his majority of sacks come against sub .500 opponents, and too often he disappears against good competition. This trend is not present with other top tier DEs.
by James The Aussie on Sep 2, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this guy is just trying to get everyone all worked up.
by bengoodfella on Sep 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got him on my radar
he does seem to at least be a fan
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 2, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen that video...
and I agree it never gets old watching it. The problem is you can’t pay 15% of your salary cap for one guy when you got 52 others to pay. I hope he signs long term but if he doesn’t I think the Panthers have to let him walk.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Sep 2, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another link
This video has three Hall of Famers (well two are waiting their turn, but it’s inevitable) talking about a great QB/leader of men. How do you think this conversation pertains to Jake?
by usana_gaines on Sep 2, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
been here for a while
i read that post Aussie my compliments…but stats doesnt tell the entire story with Pep…take the other night for example…Brayton got that sack because Pep jumped up and got his hands up forcing flacco to pull the ball back down for a sec and brayton wrapped him up from behind…fact of the matter is Julius Peppers makes the entire defense better…but he doesnt want his goofy face to be “the face” of our D….now Jaxon…when the season ended Peps said he wanted out. He also said please do not franchise me. Now we (and by we i mean the carolina panther which i am fully aware that i am no part of)could have been nice and let him walk out the door NSA, but we didnt. and why you ask? because its a business! so when pep decides to make the business move that he made albeit seem greedy and blah blah blah it is what it is a business move. and im glad he is here this year im glad that there is still some one to fear on our line bottom liine. he is every bit as valuable as jake or brady to the patriots if you will…but any way he wanted out and we wouldnt let him and now we have to accept it. but i think he like the Meeks philosophy,Brown, all the other things we can do with our line because of Brown, Beason being the leader of the D and hopefully he will work a deal out in the offseason that will keep him a panther till the end of his career.
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 2, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
excellent video
now i dont know where you are goin with this but if you are about to question jakes leadership then bud you dont keep up with the panthers…we arent even goin to discuss that 1…now decision making ok at times…but what are you goin to do? it is what it is…hes the type of guy that gets into it maybe too much and causes balls to be over thrown or he forces it into a window that isnt open because he has the confidence in himself and his teammates to make it happen. and i wouldnt have him any other way!
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 2, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This should stir up some discussion
Pat Kirwan thinks the Panthers rank #8 in QB depth!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8122fd8b&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
by bigdavis on Sep 2, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks Pat!
thats real nice of him
JAKE IS THE BEST OPTION FOR CAROLINA FOR THE NEXT 2 OR THREE YEARS GET OVER IT!!! AND JULIUS PEPPERS IS THE BEST DE IN THE NFL 100% EFFORT OR NOT!!! PERIOD! WE CANT DO ANY BETTER SO SHUT THE F#@K UP
by Steve785 on Sep 3, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets be for real
Jake Delhomme is not a good QB. I’m sorry to break it down to you like that but the truth is the truth. The only reason why Jake’s stats look so good is because……HELLO, Steve Smith. Poeple sleep on Steve, but I honestly think he’s the best WR (if not top 3) in the league. And if you look at it, when we play smart defenses who centralize only on Steve, we lose (Cards doubled and tripled him the whole game). Also, our defense is not what it use to be. So our offense is going to have to carry a larger load than years prior. This will be a show and tell year for our QB.
Look, lets all be for real in saying that Jake will never get us a ring. And I’m a firm believer that every NFL team should go into the season with Super Bowl on their minds. Truth is that’s not happening. We’re right there on the edge, and if you ask ANYONE why the panthers won’t do well this year, guess what they’ll say (will the real Jake stand up). We better do something before not only the fans become discontent, but Steve Smith and Peppers do too. Somebody better tell Fox to let Jake go, or he’ll be goin home to the couch with Jake right beside him…
by Da Kid Long on Sep 3, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good or bad is not the question the post is asking.
It was to define what would have been a better option over the last few years. Realistically there where three as Cyberjag posted:
After the 2003 Superbowl season we could have gotten UDFA Tony Romo (although he’s never won a playoff game)
In the 2005 draft in the draft we could have pick Aaron Rodgers
in the 2006 offseason we could have tried to sign FA Drew Brees
In my opinion, Rodgers was the only real miss since we just didn’t draft him, but he did sit on the bench for four years until Farve left GB.
Oh and if you ask me, Jake will not be the reason we won’t make the Superbowl. The way it’s started so far I’d pin it on injuries.
by LittleKing on Sep 3, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Da Kid Long,
The problem with people saying we should cut/get rid of Jake is they never have an alternate, and never have a solution.
As you did not volunteer a scenario I’m assuming you think we should enter the season with McCown as our starter?
Like LittleKing said, there really haven’t been many options at QB. In 03 we would have never gotten Romo… in 05 we could have had Rodgers, but that was right after Jake went to the probowl, and in 05 we could have pursued Brees, but if we spent the money on him we would have had to say goodbye to Jordan Gross.
No offense Da Kid, but I am getting really tired of people saying we should drop Jake but never have a replacement idea.
Also, you said the only reason Delhomme’s stats are good is because of Steve Smith. Then how do you explain Delhomme having his best season throwing for 3,883 yds, 29 TDs, 15 INTs and making the prowbowl in the year Smith was out because of his broken leg? THAT’S the truth.
I
by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And weren't Peytons's stats pretty good because of Marvin Harrison?....
…would Steve Young have been as great without Jerry Rice?
…would Troy Aikman have been as great without Micheal Irvin?
Most QB’s relate to their top WR, and he’s their go-to guy.
So if Jake’s stats are only as good as they are because of Steve Smith, then those other QB’s are just as dependent as he is. Maybe Smith’s are only as good as they are because of Jake. Ever think of that?
(James, this is following up on your comment to DaKid)
by bigdavis on Sep 3, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you 100% bigdavis
Truth is, for the vast majority of people:
- If a team fails, it’s the QB’s fault
- If a team wins, it’s because of the QB
- If a QB does well, it’s because of their #1 WR
- If a QB does badly, it’s because the QB sucks and should be out of the league.
by James The Aussie on Sep 3, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still on the I believe in Jake bandwagon.
I recall the season when Jake was hurt. Ouch, does
anyone else recall the horror?
by tarheelfan on Sep 3, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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