Aftermath: Projected Roster After First Round Cuts

by NSpicer on Sep 1, 2009 9:19 AM EDT

I started to post this as a response to an earlier fanpost discussing the projected roster and depth chart for the Panthers. But then, it got so lengthy (surprise!) that I figured I might as well make it a separate post, especially now that the first round of cuts have come through (though we should see one more later today).

I'm not 100% sold on some of the personnel choices I've indicated in my projected roster. Some of these guys could still land on the practice squad instead of the 53-man lineup. Also, needs on special teams could dictate a change here or there. And, once we bring in a veteran DT, they'll have to release somebody. For now, though, I think most of these position battles are over. Barring injury, I suspect the list will stay mostly intact.

So, without further ado...I give you a proposed 53-man roster...after the cut:

Right now, I'm projecting the following 53-man roster, particularly in light of the cuts announced yesterday:

QBs (3): Jake Delhomme, Josh McCown, Matt Moore

I think we keep 3 QBs on the roster. Josh McCown is the probably #2. And Matt Moore is still #3. I think we try and stash Hunter Cantwell on the practice squad.

RBs (3): Deangelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, Mike Goodson

We keep three guys in the thoroughbred stable of RBs. All three have starting-caliber talent, in my opinion. Deangelo is the veteran starter. Stewart is still there to spell him. And Goodson gets on the field as a wild card in certain formations. Goodson is also our WR5 and KR. I believe Decori Birmingham is still eligible for the practice squad, so we probably try and sign him there one more year for insurance. And if Jamall Lee has an international player exemption, we probably try and keep him there, too, if he's willing to forego playing time in the CFL to stick with an NFL team.

FBs (2): Brad Hoover, Tony Fiammetta

We keep two FBs for the first time in forever. Technically, Nick Goings was our emergency backup FB last year. We also counted on him to contribute in a major way on special teams. Tony Fiammetta now fulfills that role. And he's more than capable of backing up Hoover before eventually supplanting him when Brad retires. Fiammetta could also see some action as another TE, if one of the others gets injured.

WRs (4): Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, Dwayne Jarrett, Kenny Moore

We carried 5 WRs last year with one of them being Mark Jones who primarily served as our KR/PR guy. With Mike Goodson handling KR duties and either Kenny Moore or Captain Munnerlyn available for PR duties, I think we can shake loose a roster spot here and keep just 4 this time. Essentially, Steve Smith and Muhsin Muhammad start. It's debatable whether Dwayne Jarrett or Kenny Moore get the WR3 slot. I'm thinking Moore based on production, but it could be situational. If they inactivate Jarrett at any point during the season, it won't be a good thing for his career. Meanwhile, if we find ourselves in need of a fifth or sixth WR, we should still have Mike Goodson and even Dante Rosario who could fill in for us.

TEs (3): Jeff King, Gary Barnidge, Dante Rosario

I think we keep all three of these guys. At first, I thought Dante Rosario might become the odd man out, but he impressed in the Ravens game again. He makes another decent fill-in at WR5 in certain formations because of his speed. Of course, Jeff King stays with us at least one more year, unless we re-sign him again in the off-season. Meanwhile, Gary Barnidge may see increased playing time to prepare him to take over for King as the primary starter next season. For now, King gets the starting nod for his superior blocking skills. But, if as I suspect, we release him next year, it becomes all that more important to retain Rosario as Barnidge's future backup.

OLs (9): Jordan Gross, Travelle Wharton, Ryan Kalil, Keydrick Vincent, Jeff Otah, Duke Robinson, Geoff Schwartz, Justin Geisinger, Mackenzy Bernadeau

We kept 9 O-linemen on the roster last year. This mix seems more than decent to me. The starters are the same as last year, obviously. The depth is what matters now and, fortunately, there's a lot of versatility among everyone. Bernadeau would be the second-string center, though Geisinger could fill-in there, too, if needed. Geoff Schwartz will continue as Jeff Otah's backup. Travelle Wharton would kick out to fill-in at LT if Jordan Gross goes down. And that leaves Duke Robinson, Geisinger, and Bernadeau as backup guards where needed.

DLs (8): Julius Peppers, Damione Lewis, Marlon Favorite, Tyler Brayton, Everette Brown, Nick Hayden, Corvey Irvin, Charles Johnson

Julius Peppers, Tyler Brayton, and Damione Lewis are the no-brainers at their respective positions. I believe Marlon Favorite becomes the "favorite" fill-in for Ma'ake Kemoeatu over Nick Hayden for now. But Hayden should stay in the rotation along with Corvey Irvin. Everette Brown and Charles Johnson serve as backup DEs, but on passing downs, we'll clearly see some formations using Peppers and Brown on the edges with Brayton and Johnson in the middle. As soon as we bring in a heavy, veteran, space-eating DT, I suspect Hayden or Irvin might get cut. If we can stash either of them on the practice squad (probably Irvin rather than Hayden), I think we'd probably try and do that.

LBs (7): Jon Beason, Thomas Davis, Na’il Diggs, Dan Connor, Landon Johnson, James Anderson, Jeremy Leman

This grouping is a lot smaller than last year when we carried 9 LBs on the roster. I'm projecting only 7 this year. The first six guys could probably start for most teams. Jeremy Leman makes the squad because of his performance in training camp and the preseason. One of the LB spots from last year goes to keep Tony Fiammetta as an extra FB. Our extra LBs last year helped on special teams more than defense. And I expect Fiammetta will do the same thing, but he'll just be backing up the offense instead. I assigned the other LB spot from last year to the DBs, just because we need the extra secondary help...and one of those DBs could really help us on special teams a bit more than another LB.

DBs (10): Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall, Chris Harris, Charles Godfrey, Sherrod Martin, Dante Wesley, http://www.sbnation.com/nfl

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Grrrr...

…what happened to the rest of my post. Is there a text limit imposed or something? Oh well…

The rest of the proposed roster looked like this:

DBs (10): Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall, Chris Harris, Charles Godfrey, Sherrod Martin, Dante Wesley, Quinton Teal, C.J. Wilson, Kevin Kaesviharn, Captain Munnerlyn

P (1): Jason Baker

Ks (2): John Kasay, Rhys Lloyd

LS (1): J.J. Jansen

by NSpicer on Sep 1, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions

Great post, Neil!

Here’s my question. With Wesley and Martin both moving to Safety, what chance is there that Kaesviharn sticks? I feel like Wesley’s special teams contributions are so valuable that he’s guaranteed a spot, and Martin as our 2nd round pick has one too. But Kaesviharn? I’m not sold on him making the final 53.

I’d rather see that spot go to the DL depth, since so many of those guys are longer-term projects, but situational players right now.

by r3 on Sep 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

I think Kaesviharn is good veteran insurance

If you look back on the 4Q run play that went for so much yardage last Saturday, it was he who was up on the line, about to make the tackle for very little or no gain — but because he was literally TACKLED around the ankles by their OG (I think it was), the play broke wide open. Had the refs seen the flagrant hold (!), there’d have been a 10 yd penalty, no gain, and our defensive run stats wouldn’t have looked Quite so bad.

From watching him, I think he covered his territory better than some other safeties I could mention.

by bigdavis on Sep 1, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Kaesviharn is a special "kaes"...er...case, as the case may be...

Yeah. He’s one of the players I seriously considered dropping for either an extra LB or an extra DL. But I kept him for a couple of reasons. First, that projected depth chart is noticeably dropping Nate Salley from the squad. Regardless of what folks might think of him, he’s our one S who has decent starting experience. And he also plays an important role on special teams as a tackler. I think Kaesviharn can fulfill both of those roles for us. He has the experience. And, on special teams, he doesn’t have to keep up with a WR in coverage. He just has to charge down field and tackle well, which is something I think he’s more than capable of doing…and doing quite well.

In addition, I trimmed our number of LBs by 2 (i.e., from 9 to 7) compared to last year’s squad. Tony Fiammetta benefits from one of those positions and I think that’s okay, because at least a couple of those LBs last year never saw the defense. They just played on special teams. Fiammetta can do that for us and contribute as a FB, too. The other LB spot that I purposefully trimmed went to the DBs. It’s what allows us to keep either Kaesviharn or Captain Munnerlyn on the roster. Both should be capable contributors on special teams…which is what that extra LB spot was going to be used for anyway.

In addition, because of the rules changes regarding the “wedge” on kick returns, they’re not letting as many big guys bunch together anymore. In the past, you always needed a speedy linebacker or sizeable S to get downfield and bust up the wedge so your other guys could come in and tackle the KR. With these new “wedge” rules instituted this year, special teams personnel will likely be switching over to somewhat smaller, and certainly faster, guys.

So, dispensing with that extra LB spot and giving it to the DBs made the most sense. That lets us keep a veteran S like Kaesviharn…and we also get to keep Captain Munnerlyn both as a gunner, a PR, and a backup CB. I think Munnerlyn flashed enough ability in those areas that he’s worth finding a way to have him on the 53-man roster and not just the practice squad. But, who knows what the coaches decide? It’s entirely possible they may try and stash Munnerlyn on the practice squad. Or, maybe they decide Dante Wesley and Sherrod Martin can provide enough S skills to backup Godfrey, Harris, and Teal. Or, maybe they decide they want to keep Nate Salley and dispense with Kaesviharn? I don’t know. But, I agree with you that that’s the part of this roster that could certainly be in much more flux. We’ll just have to see what happens on Sept. 5th.

by NSpicer on Sep 1, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

DBs

I agree that this is the hardest area to project. It’s actually more complex than you make it out to be. Dante Wesley was injured on that INT on Saturday. “Head Injury.” If that’s a concussion, he might be OK by week one (see J. Gross last year). Or it could be a session-ending injury. Just don’t know at this point.

by TheMightyM on Sep 1, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, one other point...

This just represents the 53-man roster. Deciding which 45 to dress each Sunday is going to be super-important, too. I really, really hope the NFL makes some rules changes to expand the gameday roster in the future. Injuries are just too much of a game changer and it would be better to have more backups on hand. They’ll almost be forced to do this if they extend the season or change roll a couple of the preseason games into the regular season.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Sep 1, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe keep Ivy over Leman at LB?

Mortty Ivy seems to have more athletic ability, which helps on special teams.

Waive Leman. If he passes through, put him on the practice squad. If we get injuries to Beason or Connor, he can be brought up to the regular team.

If another team picks him up, they’ll have to put him on their regular roster which is great for Leman. He’s earned that shot.

by GKB on Sep 1, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions

I'd favor going the other way...

I want to keep Leman on our roster and slip Ivy through waivers and onto the practice squad. They’re both eligible. But, after James Anderson and Dan Connor, I think Leman has outplayed every backup LB (including Landon Johnson). He deserves the shot over Ivy. And he can contribute on special teams same as Ivy would have.

by NSpicer on Sep 1, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Leman doesn't have the speed for Special Teams

Ivy would be of more use in games where Leman would play only if we take injuries to Beason and either to Diggs (Connor substituting) or to Connor.

I have no disagreement that Leman has played the best at LB. I just don’t see him getting the chance to do so because of our depth in front of him.

by GKB on Sep 1, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Final Roster Comments

Good job, Neil. I agree with all your offensive picks, except I keep Cantwell over Moore. Think he has better upside and I think Moore has peaked. When McCown was brought in, it’s apparent he’s not breaking in the top 2. Trade for 5-7 round pick.

I’m picking Kaesvarian missing the cut for 9 Db’s. I would add 1 more DL where we need a lot of rotation. DLew, Leonard, Favorite, Hayden, Irvin, Peppers, Johnson, Brown, Brayton. I still like Taylor, but think we need more depth at DT than DE and he gets caught in the numbers.

by magicman56 on Sep 1, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions

Great post Neil!!

I like that someone else believes in Moore, a penny or two though if I may. Hayden to the PS in exchange for Leonard, Irvin wouldn’t make it through, he’s a third round pick that has played fairly well this preseason. Someone like Atlanta would be all over him.

by Flowing Willow on Sep 2, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions

You may be right...

…about Irvin. But I recommended keeping Hayden and putting Ivrin on the practice squad because I wasn’t sure about Hayden’s eligibility. Has he accrued a year of NFL experience yet? Technically, that “year” of experience isn’t even a full 16 games. It’s much less than that. And I haven’t gone back to count the number of games Hayden has played for us. Irvin’s definitely eligible for the practice squad, though…if we can slip him past waivers, of course.

As for Moore, I’m not necessarily that high on him. He’s good enough to make the roster as the 3rd string QB. I think Cantwell’s got a better arm and could make for an interesting developmental prospect for the future. But I keep Moore around because of his experience, both in starting a few games for us already, and the extra time he’s had to study and perform in our system. I’m not sure we have a future starting QB on our roster yet, though. The next couple of years and Jake’s performance should go a long way in determining what we do next in that regard.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Sep 2, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Hayden only played in the last 3 games last year.

by bigdavis on Sep 2, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Yep...

…confirmed. They’ve got him down with only 2 games of actual experience, though. Maybe that’s as a starter? Regardless, he should have practice squad eligibility left. And that means we could probably slip him through waivers easier than Corvey Irvin right now. Still, it also means if we brought Hayden back from the practice squad we’d have to release someone. Given that we’ve played Hayden over Irvin, I’m kind of doubting Fox and Hurney would drop Hayden onto the practice squad this year. But who knows?

by NSpicer on Sep 2, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Great post, as usual Neil! I agree for the most part…I think Kavershadoodle is where you are most likely to be wrong. I really like Hilee Taylor but I think I will have to say goodbye to him. (and good Luck).

I also think Ivy works better on ST even though Leman has been a beast throughout the preseason.

I think the Matt Moore /Hunter Cantwell debate gets settled tonight. I’m picking Moore to win out, even though I’m picking up on some great intangibles from Cantwell, also.

Thanks again Neil.

by rawjem01 on Sep 2, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions