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Panthers Training Camp Day 4 & 5 Report

Carolina Panthers' DeAngelo Williams (34) is shown during the team's NFL football training camp in Spartanburg, S.C., Wednesday, Aug. 5, 2009. (AP Photo/Chuck Burton)

More photos » by Chuck Burton - AP

3 months ago: Carolina Panthers' DeAngelo Williams (34) is shown during the team's NFL football training camp in Spartanburg, S.C., Wednesday, Aug. 5, 2009. (AP Photo/Chuck Burton)

The following is a summary of the key happenings from day 4 and 5 of Panthers TC. Since we can't get a way from injury news lets start with that and then discuss the positive developments.

 

cpanthers#JohnFox also said WR #Dwayne Jarrett banged his wrist in practice. Jarrett returned to the field after being hurt.

Jarret is back in action on Day 5. These three remain out:

cpantherscpanthersDid not practice: OL C.J. Davis (ankle), LB #ThomasDavis (knee) and LB #JonBeason (knee).

When asked about the effect of injuries Panthers GM Marty Hurney had this response:

Camp Confidential: Panthers eye next step - NFC South - ESPN
"It starts with having enough depth to sustain," Hurney said. "Different things happened in different seasons in the past. But drafting well and having a young base is really important as far as staying ahead of the game and not having to go out in free agency and bring in guys a lot. If you draft well and bring those guys up, you have a continuity in there that should keep you competitive. Continuity is a result of bringing in the right guys from the start."

Come on Marty, you know if you had the cap space you'd have a couple FA's in here right now competing for back-up spots on both lines.

Star-divide

-- We're starting to figure some things out in the return game. They were working on punts Thursday, and the sad reality is that RB Mike Goodson can't really catch them. 
Special teams coach Danny Crossman was putting them through drills before practice, asking them to catch a pass, then field punts one-armed.
At several junctures, Goodson looked like a juggler in a circus. It's weird, for a guy with good hands in the passing game, this seems to stump him.

He might return kicks, but punts aren't in his future.

Williams_and_stewart_at_tc_medium

If this holds then Ryne Robinson has one fewer guy to beat out. From the same link:

-- It's way early, but LS J.J. Jansen looks to my untrained eye to snap a tighter ball than Nick Sundberg. 
P Jason Baker saved both of them yesterday during field goal drills, picking balls up to place them.

I said it months ago, if there's one decision this offseason they'd regret, it's letting Jason Kyle go. Maybe they can go sign Kevin Houser later, but only if he leaves his stock tips at home.

This is cause for concern in my view. Here's some positive plays from practice:

The one-on-one duels were highlighted by a deep reception by Kenneth Moore and an interception by Richard Marshall. Moore's catch saw him work past rookie cornerback Sherrod Martin up the left sideline, allowing him space to reach out and lunge for a sliding touchdown grab. Two plays later, Marshall picked off quarterback Matt Moore, tipping a pass that was intended for wide receiver Kevin McMahan and coming down with it before heading upfield ...

  • This Camp Report video I found disappointing. It is focused around an interview with UDFA Patrick Brown and his match-up with Julius Peppers. I say disappointing because it didn't show footage of the match-up in the question.
  • You can catch Darin Gantt's podcasts here. If I was to recap his Day 4 podcast: He's really high on Larry Beavers as KR with his elite speed. He also compares Mike Goodson with Kevin Faulk in the way he might be used. Finally, he thinks TE Gary Barnidge has the chance to be an all-around TE, a downfield threat who can also be a good blocker.
  • So will CB Chris Gamble get the opportunity to be a 'shutdown corner'?

Asked Thursday if he'd consider such a move in the future with Gamble, he hedged as is his custom.

"We've done both," Fox said. "Each game takes on its own personality. Sometimes matching up is an option; sometimes it's left and right. But you mix that up. Everybody in the league does that; we've done both."

Typical Fox answer. Definitely something to watch come the Eagles game.

Other notable posts:

Inside Carolina Panthers training camp - Damon Hack - SI.com
3. Steve Smith has the strongest handshake I've ever gripped. Seriously. For years, I've marveled at Smith's ability to out-muscle taller, stronger defensive backs and come down with the football while standing only 5-foot-9. Then I met him for the first time at Panthers camp, shook his hand, and was happy to see that my fingers were still intact after he let go. I've got big mitts, but Smith's hand felt like a vice grip. Remember the scene from Superman II, when the Man of Steel crumples General Zod's fingers near the end of the movie? Smith easily could have done that to me.

This accounts for his great hands, something Smitty doesn't get enough credit for.

NFC South training camp one-liners | ProFootballTalk.com
Panthers K John Kasay's own experience with a training camp injury has him empathizing with DT Maake Kemoeatu. Kemoeatu's torn Achilles tendon may lead to the signing of former Falcons and Chiefs DT T.J. Jackson to bolster the Panthers defensive line. RB Mike Goodson has been getting a lot of repetitions as the Panthers try to find ways to utilize his skills. RB Jonathan Stewart is limited to one practice a day because he's still feeling pain from an Achilles problem.

Playoff collapse didn't test Panthers' faith in QB Delhomme - USATODAY.com
"We all told him to knock it off," tackle Jordan Gross said. "He doesn't want us apologizing to him when we have a bad game. Since then he's just been anxious to get started again. The only way to make yourself feel better when you have a bad game or bad play is to do better on the next one. That's the case for him. That's the case for all of us because we all had our name on that game."

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Tweet Update from Gantt

daringantt#Panthers TE Gary Barnidge getting some run with the ones. He’s so far ahead of where he was last year.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gantt and steve Reid seem in different worlds sometimes

On WFNZ this morning Reid said he didn’t think Beaver would make the team. He didn’t seem to gave much more than speed.

He also said Jarrett is looking very promising, has seemed to mature and working/studying much harder this year.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 7, 2009 11:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

* Beavers :)

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 7, 2009 11:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

potty humor is okay though!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Atleast I didn't botch his 1st name too

Could have called him Harry Beaver

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 7, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Seymour Beaver

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 8, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

New Tweet:
cpanthersTwo completely fascinating interviews and personalities with whom I spoke just now — QBs coach Rip Scherer and new DT George Hypolite.

I thought someone commented that Hypolite failed his physical. Obviously not true, damn I hate it when I buy into something without verifying it.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I thought it was someone else who failed the physical? and Hypolite was brought in to replace that body?

by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's correct.

TJ Jackson came up, but he failed his physical. So the Panthers settled for their second choice in Hypolite.

by NSpicer on Aug 7, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohhh...missed that completely

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TJ Jackson DT, was one option
Sources with knowledge of the situation said former Auburn DT T.J. Jackson was en route to Spartanburg Tuesday to take a physical and sign.
The 25-year-old Jackson, who has played in seven games the last three years with Atlanta and Kansas City, would likely sign tomorrow.

From Darin Gantt

by Barbados on Aug 7, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah that was me

my bad it was T.J. Jackson that failed his physical, who was signed before Hypo. All the new names tripped me up.

by ClaytonFire on Aug 8, 2009 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pieces or trends?

Trends, hints, comments I am picking up – feel free to confirm or refute -

1. Delhomme strongly defends Hoover. Like Fiametta might replace him?
2. Jarrett made a big improvement in professional approach – like DeAngelo did last year.
3. Barnidge – phenom? Fox – moving away from obsession with veterans?
4. Goodson – Super-rookie?
5. DT – same mess as last year, likely worse. More LB packages to compensate?
6. Alternatives to Charles Godfrey at Safety – Chris Gamble?
7. Nate Salley – weak? Cut target? Or the new Karl Hankton?
8. Behind Delhomme – who? McCown? Is McCown the next Delhomme or David Carr?
9. Rhys Lloyd – no field goals – ever? No succession plan after Kasay?

Things I want to know:
1. Who seem to be the back up OL stars so far?
2. Is Nick Hayden any good or Just-A-Guy (JAG)?
3. Who covers Steve Smith – Marshall or Gamble?
4. How’s Fiametta doing? What happens if both he and Hoover stay? Does a TE get cut?
5. Is there a scenario in which Barnidge, Rosario, King, Fiametta, Hoover, and Goodson ALL make the team? I struggle to see it.
6. Who now is the best BLOCKING TE? Still King?
7. Who seems to be the 4th WR behind Smitty, Moose, and DJ?

by Barbados on Aug 7, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll take a stab at answering a few of these...

Responses to Trends, Hints, & Comments:
1. Delhomme is defending Hoover, primarily to lobby for him to get Pro Bowl recognition. Eventually, Fiammetta will replace him. When that time comes, it would help Hoover land with another team if he receives a few more accolades between now and then. But I highly doubt the Panthers will cut Hoover this year…as in 99.9% sure. But I also expect Fiammetta to make the roster. That way, he contributes heavily on special teams. He gets to learn the FB position behind Hoover. And, we get to use him in any jumbo packages, trick plays, or relief duty if we want.
2. Jarrett is improving, but he’s still just the most likely WR3 behind Muhammad. Muhsin won’t stay in the league much longer (despite his longevity). So we need Jarrett to step up and claim the WR2 spot ASAP. This year is make or break for him. So he BETTER show improvement if he wants to stick in the NFL.
3. Barnidge has bulked up this offseason and worked on improving his blocking. He needs to if he wants to stay on the team. He’s the best pass-catching TE we have. But King’s a better blocker. If Barnidge can do decent at blocking AND present another receiving threat, he should become our starting TE somewhere down the road. Now is the time to start seeing him improve and get him playing time so we can evaluate whether we keep him or not when his contract is up.
4. Goodson isn’t superman yet. He’s got speed…as in Steve Smith breakaway speed. That makes him a quick-threat kind of weapon. We need to put the ball in his hands and see how he does. It’s too bad he can’t catch punts very well. Otherwise, he could steal the both the KR and PR duties and that would make Ryne Robinson much more obsolete. The other good thing going for Goodson is his versatility as a WR, RB, KR, and gunner on special teams. He’s a keeper.
5. Our most glaring need is DT right now, no doubt. I don’t think we’re going to find any surefire replacement for Kemo. Instead, we’re leaning on the young guys. Part of that’s due to salary cap management reasons. But the other part is a desire to give these younger (and in some cases, smaller) DTs some experience. While I think that’s…okay…it’s not…ideal. So there’s clearly some risk involved this year. It’s another gamble, basically. Let’s hope it pays off. And, as far as compensating for lack of size at DT now that Kemo is gone for the year, Ron Meeks has already indicated they’ll change up the defensive scheme somewhat to compensate. That probably means putting Brayton or Johnson over at DT on occasion…which frees up playing time for Everette Brown at DE opposite Peppers, maybe. It also means LBs and the S spot coming up to support the run and more Tampa-2 in the secondary. And hopefully, we’re getting pressure from the DEs not only on the opposing QB, but also for some tackles behind the line of scrimmage if they’re quick enough. It all comes down to scheme now and not just personnel.
6. Alternatives to Charles Godfrey at Safety would be unusual (to me, anyway). I think he’s our starting safety. He’s got an extra year behind him now. I don’t see Chris Gamble being turned into a Safety at all. I DO however foresee Gamble being used to shadow an opposing team’s best WR from time to time, rather than just making him responsible for one side of the field all day long. Fitzgerald demonstrated the fallacy of that defensive scheme. And, with the Tampa-2 being used more, I suspect they’re going to want experience and lockdown capability out of Gamble at CB, because he’s the best we’ve got at that position right now. The more interesting question is what they’ll do with Sherrod Martin this year?
7. Nate Salley is a useful, experienced backup at the Safety position. He contributes on special teams a lot. He could become a casualty in the roster cutdown, but I’d expect Teal or Wilson to go before him. Even so, Salley is no Karl Hankton.
8. McCown is your #2 QB behind Delhomme. I’m 99.9% confident in that. It’s how he ended the season on the depth chart. And he’s far more experienced than Matt Moore. Thus, the “veteran” gets the nod to backup Delhomme as our #2.
9. Rhys Lloyd is NOT a good FG kicker from very far out, despite his powerful leg. The accuracy just isn’t there. John Kasay is still WAY more accurate than your average kicker. If there’s a succession plan after he retires, it won’t be Lloyd. They’ll either bring in an all new kicker who can handle both kickoffs and FGs. Or, they’ll bring in another cheap accurate kicker they can continue to pair with Lloyd and split the duties between them.

Answer To The Things You Want To Know:
1. Backup OL stars probably include Bernadeau as our backup Center. Schwartz has been praised by Gross for his improvement. And Robinson seems poised to provide some skill for us. Of them all, Bernadeau and Schwartz have been with the team “longer” but they’re hardly veterans. I expect Cadogan may stick as a backup OT, but we’ll see.
2. Nick Hayden didn’t perform all that well in emergency service when Kemo and Lewis were out last year. He’s serviceable, but not starting caliber. So, I rate him as Just-A-Guy.
3. Steve Smith is covered by whomever he lines up against. They move Steve all over the place. In camp, he’s been covered by all the DBs at one time or another. Captain Munnerlyn made a splash with a well-defended ball on one big play in training camp so far against Smith. Other than that, it’s business as usual.
4. Fiammetta was recently cited as laying a major block in some drills. If he and Hoover both make the team, I think they cut a DB or a TE.
5. Barnidge, Rosario, King, Fiammetta, Hoover, and Goodson could all make the team if they decide to go with one less DB or LB. I doubt they’ll trim the D-linemen or O-linemen spots to accommodate them. We don’t have depth on either of those lines, so those positions need stocking more.
6. Jeff King is still the best blocking TE, though we brought in another free agent or rookie who’s primarily a blocker, too. I forget his name, but I don’t expect him to be anything other than a training camp body to assist in practice and scrimmages. Other than King, Barnidge will probably be our next best blocking TE. And he’s easily our best pass-catching TE.
7. I expect the WR4 position to be one of the most hotly contested battles throughout training camp. Front-runners are probably Ryne Robinson, Jason Carter, and Mike Goodson. I doubt any of the others make anything more than the practice squad if they’re eligible.

But that’s just my…hmmm…16 cents worth?
—Neil

by NSpicer on Aug 7, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a stab? Definitely 16 cents worth...plus some change

Nice stab Neil…and I read it all!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't

Really wanted to, but I’ll wait for the Clifnotes

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 7, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

…that’s at least one person. :-)

by NSpicer on Aug 8, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No problem...

…I was bored and needed a break from my other writing project.

by NSpicer on Aug 8, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice post Neil, as usual.

I agree with pretty much everything . . . and yes I too read it all. I have some thoughts from my first TC visit on wed 8/5 that I will post soon.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Aug 9, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

4th WR etc.

One questionable assumption is that weren’t only keeping 4 WRs. Last year we carried six most of the season (Smitty, Moose, Jarrett, Hackett, Mark Jones, Kenneth Moore) on the 53 man, though only four were active on game day. Also, all three running backs were active throughout the season. So expect five or six WRs again this year, probably with four active on any given week.

So I see the wildcards as Goodson and the KR/PR duties, which are obviously related. Is Goodson the third RB? If so, then two or three of Ryne Robinson, Jason Carter, and Kenneth Moore with the other guys being longshots. Can Goodson return punts or kicks? If not, whoever is doing that (Robinson?) has to be active and is also the 4th WR.

by TheMightyM on Aug 7, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goodson...

…can definitely return kickoffs. He’s apparently not doing to well at fielding punts though. So, he’s probably eligible as a KR and not a PR.

by NSpicer on Aug 8, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AS of now…Does Captain make the team?

by Zeus12888 on Aug 7, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Probably...

…but only the practice squad. I don’t think Captain has enough going for him to displace any of the current DBs on the roster. That’s just my opinion, though.

by NSpicer on Aug 7, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a good candidate for the PS

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just an FYI

I have a post about the final roster, it’s more than a little outdated, but should help a lot.

by Flowing Willow on Aug 8, 2009 7:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why not put up a new one?

…and keep updating it as the roster cuts come in?

by NSpicer on Aug 8, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe after each game....

Anyways, when is the HOF game? Carolina’s season opener? Here ESPN says it starts on the 18th, but I’ve been seeing some stuff that says the 13th, even the 17th. Can you help out the fan lost in South Africa? : D

by Flowing Willow on Aug 9, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HOF game

is tomorrow night- 7 or 8pm EST

Panthers first preseason game is 8/17 EST vs the Giants. Watch for Andre Brown from NCSU to run the ball a LOT for the Giants.

by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 9, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Wolfpack fan, I am excited for Dre'.

He gets to run behind a great OL, after a 6’4" 265lbs beast of a RB, and in a run heavy offense.

As a Panther fan, I am nervous about him playing against us at the end of the year in NY. Especially considering our DT’s and that by the end of the year, they probably will be even more banged up.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Aug 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually know him real well

He has the potential to be anything he wants to be. In sports- or in the "real world’. He also has some of that common procrastination… but hey, what college kid doesn’t? He was one of the most respected students by professors, and peers in his classes.

by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 9, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah… He is in a great position. I really thought he would go to the Texans and play in that old Denver offense… but I guess they saw something more in Ant.

by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 9, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really know much about Andre Brown

But it would seem that Ahmad Bradshaw, or even Danny Ware would have more of an opening. Bradshaw impressed me a couple years ago, and if I was running the Giants, I would have had no qualms about him backing up Jacobs. The game is being shown on ESPN, so I get to watch it!!!!!!

by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2009 2:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Bradshaw's likely to be their number two,

but you’ll recall that they had a three-back rotation last season, and I expect that to continue since it’s a good way to limit the amount of punishment that Jacobs takes (or absorbs as he’s dishing out the punishment).

I re-watched last season’s Giants game yesterday, and Jacobs is a monster. Chris Harris had a really great hit on him, shoulder pad-to-facemask, but every other time he ran the ball, he did damage to somebody. He’s a complete freak of nature, to be as big as he is, to be able to cut the way he does, and to run as strong and as fast as he does… it ought to be illegal.

by r3 on Aug 10, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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