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Was John Gruden really nuts about DeAngelo Williams?

This is a question I have been thinking about since he made that comment on Monday Night Football during the 1st Pre-Season game. For those of you that don't know, not only did he claim DeAngelo Williams as one of the best RB's in the league, but he also gave him the title of the best RB in the NFL, period.

Of course, the other two commentators laughed at this. One of them made a comment if he had ever heard of Adrian Peterson. But I sat down at my couch, thinking about this for a moment. Whom is truly the best back in the NFL? You can't just take one look at a player and think to yourself, "This is the better guy." There are so many factors you have to consider about a back before you make your decision. Let's take a look at a few of them, just off the top of my head.

Offensive line

The Offensive line is the most important tool of a good running attack. Without one, running backs are victim to penetration and can't often achieve the greatness they truly desire. One good hit in the backfield is often enough to stop a good drive dead in its tracks, especially if your QB is only average or sub par. In order for a running back to be truly great, they have to be able to depend on the guys blocking in front of them.

 

 

Star-divide

Williams: In 2008 our entire offense had almost a complete revamp. This could be mostly seen on the offensive line. We got rid of Pro-Bowl LG Mike Wahle for Travelle Wharton, and C Justin Hartwig for Ryan Kalil. We picked up Kedrick Vincent and started him at RG while Jeremy Bridges became a backup, and Jeff Otah started at RT as a rookie so that Jordan Gross could move back to LT and have a Pro-Bowl year. They formed a line stronger than anything Carolina has ever had before, keeping Jake Delhomme safe with only 20 sacks for the season, the cleanest jersey he has ever had in his career.

Peterson: In 2008, the Vikings maintained the same line they had the year before, but had the star running back working behind it to give them the production they need to make the offense work. Steve Hutchinson is an absolute beast of a guard, once again having another Pro-Bowl year even though he's beginning to get up there in years. However, while the Vikings O-Line are great at run blocking, they have a hard time protecting the QB. Jackson and Gus both combined for 43 sacks during the regular season.

Conclusion: While both teams have some of the best run blockers in the NFL, the Panthers are the more complete O-Line. As for the running game, they're on par with each other. Both have a Pro-Bowler and both give their RB the best chance to make a play.

Strength of Schedule

Of course, this one should be pretty self explanatory. If you face teams like the Lions every other game, of course it will be easier for your RB to run the football. The linemen will get better blocks against weaker quality D-Linement, the linebackers aren't as quick to plug up the seams, and the safeties and corners are more prone to fall on their face in an vain attempt to tackle you.

Adrian Peterson: In terms of wins and losses, the Vikings had the 5th strongest schedule in the NFL. However, they have the Lions in their division who has an epically bad defense, maybe the worst in the history of the NFL. Regardless, they had a much tougher schedule than the Panthers, and Peterson had 100 yard games against such strong defensive teams teams as the Bears, Giants, and the Packers.

Deangelo Williams: The Panthers had by far the easier schedule. But Williams also had great games against strong defensive teams tough against the run such as the Giants, Raiders, and Tampa Bay.

Conclusion:
Though there is a large difference in the schedule, both RB's proved that they can have great games against strong and capable run defenses. It will be interesting to see how the Panthers and Vikings react when the roles switch during the regular season. The Vikings will have the easier schedule, while the Panthers will have the 2nd toughest in the NFL AND be without Jonathan Stewart. ((If the feeling in my gut doesn't lie.))

Number of Carries/Yards Per Carry

This one is fairly simple. In order to be a great running back and to be recognized by all, you have to have the ball in your hands. What fans really want to see is a strong dose of smash mouth football on Sunday. Due to the wear and tear on star RB's over the years, and the desire for a versatility of skills wanted at the position, you're seeing more and more RB committee's beginning to pop up here and there throughout the league in order to keep fresh guys on the field from year to year. I believe that this was an important facet in Carolina's running game, where Double Trouble eclipsed Smash and Dash to run for almost 2500 yards for the season. It is also an important factor to consider when you judge the quality of a good running back.

Williams: Williams had 273 carries for a total of 1515 yards ((5.5 per attempt)). That's enough to place him 3rd on the list for yards gained for the season. The only two people ahead of him are Adrian Peterson and Michael Turner. Below him on the list are several other 'cowbell' backs such as Matt Forte, Clinton Portis, and Thomas Jones who receive the ball 25-30 times a game and have more of a chance to add yards to their total then Williams does in Carolina.  

Peterson: Adrian Peterson ran the ball 363 times for 1,760 yards ((4.8 per attempt)) to lead the NFL in rushing yards. He falls under the category of 'cowbell' back because he does not have anyone after him in the lineup to challenge him for carries.

Conclusion: There are two conclusions you can draw from this, two arguments which make good points on either sides. The first conclusion you can make is that Deangelo Williams is the better back, because he did not get the ball the same number of times that Adrian Peterson did, and therefore did not have a chance to show off his superior ability. If you do the math, give Williams 90 more carries running at 5.5 per attempt and he runs for over 2000 yards for the season. But then you have to consider that you don't have an extra guy to keep Williams fresh as a cowbell back, so that number will probably drop.

Argument 2: On the flip side of the coin, you can make the argument that the only reason his yards per attempt was so high was because of the committee in the first place. And it's true, committee's usually have a back with an extraordinary YPA. Take Giant's Derrick Ward for example. Behind big man Brandon Jacobs, he ran the ball 182 times for 1,082 yards ((5.6)). Or take Darren Sproles from San Diego ((5.4)). Either argument you go with, it's a chin scratcher for sure.

Feel free to add onto this discussion as you see fit. I will not let you guys know my personal opinion on this. I made this article to open debate between the two, as normal arguments usually go 'Haha! Peterson is better!" and then get left at that. The main number you want to circle is 273 and 363, which are Williams and Peterson's carries respectively. If Deangelo Williams was given those extra 90 carries, would he have led the NFL in rushing yards? Would he have passed Peterson as the #1 running back in the NFL and all fantasy drafts?

These are all things you have to consider.

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Who exactly is the Panther's pro-bowler?
Both have a Pro-Bowler and both give their RB the best chance to make a play.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 27, 2009 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reading it again

I assume you are talking about Gross and not DeAngelo???

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 27, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For Strength of Schedule

The Colts are not in the Vikings division. The Viks are in the NFC North while the Colts are in the AFC South.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Opps...corrected

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great article and enjoyable read.

I would also add in fumbles/ball security, which is absolutely in DeAngelo’s favor (0 vs 9).

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is not to be overlooked in comparing the two --

In the last 2 years, Peterson has fumbled the ball 13 times, losing 7 — Williams has only lost it once in those 2 years, none last year.

If we were comparing QB’s, INT’s would be a vital part of the analysis — these lost fumbles by Peterson are costly turnovers, and detract greatly from his overall effectiveness. If you cough the ball up, all the yards you’ve made on that series are for nought, IMO.

That would be enough to lead Gruden, or any other unbiased observer, to conclude Williams is the more valuable RB — and that’s if they were even in TDs scored (which they’re not), or YPC (which they’re not.)

by bigdavis on Aug 28, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is a key comparison in my view

AP lead the NFL in fumbles with 9 and D-Will had ZERO!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's a tough call

Certainly would love to see AP and DeAngelo run behind the same line against the same defense, but that will never happen. My gut tells me AP is still the more naturally talented back. His numbers are indeed better than DeAngelos over a 2 year span other than the fumble category.

by Tater596 on Aug 28, 2009 8:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's the way I look at it, and yes, it's completely subjective...

Peterson relies on his O-line far more than De-Angelo does.

Yes, I understand how important an O-line is for RB success, but Peterson’s game is built enirely around Steve Huchinson opening a big hole and him hitting it. It works very well for their offense, but on occasion Hutchinson can’t open that hole… hence the low YPC.

Conversely, DeAngelo can keep a play alive far better than Peterson. He is able to create his own run alot more often, and even when things go South he’s often able to keep his run alive for a 3-4 yard gain. This is why his YPC average is significantly higher.

Here’s another interesting stat… comparing their YAC-PC (yards after contact, per carry):
Adrian Peterson: 2.4 YAC-PC
DeAngelo Williams: 3.0 YAC-PC

Furthermore, it can’t be ignored than DeAngelo didn’t fumble the ball once last season, while Peterson fumbled 9 times. DeAngelo also had 18 TDs to Peterson’s 10.

Personally, I believe DeAngelo is the best RB in the league, and I think his stats support it. But, to step back and be 100% objective I think it’s too soon to annoint anyone as ’League’s best RB’ they both need a couple more seasons to prove it.

by James The Aussie on Aug 28, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's not get carried away and say Peterson is a slouch

His unique blend of size and speed definitely makes him the back most would take. His fumbling problem can be fixed, just ask Tiki Barber. The thing I love about Peterson is that he isn’t going to shy away from contact, but that doesn’t mean he can’t pull a move on you. It is fun to watch him run, just like DeAngelo, DeAngelo just plays for the Panthers. My point here is that we shouldn’t let our Panther’s bias cloud our view of the rest of the league.

by Flowing Willow on Aug 28, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This makes me a jerk but...

Revshawn the word is regardless, not irregardless (that is not a word). I’m sorry to point that out, its just one of those words that is like nails on a chalkboard to me; just like ‘conversate’. I think what you do for us Panther fans is awsome and I appreciate the great articles and insight. But I don’t want anyone to judge you or your intelligence by the simple bad choice a word. Please forgive me, if this comment offends, it’s not intended to.
Now, D-Will in my very biased opinion was the best back in the league last year. Even though he and AP are close in stats, the 20 TD’s and 0 fumbles takes D-Will over the top.
Thanks for what u do.

by rawjem01 on Aug 28, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Corrected

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Jaxon.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Aug 28, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First-time poster here

An interesting tidbit (to me, at least): Both backs are listed at exactly the same weight (217 lbs.) but there’s a 4-inch disparity in height (6-1 to 5-9).

So which one is harder to bring down – the rangy dude who will run through or around you, or the bowling ball who gets lost in the fray and pops up out of nowhere with a spin move? I don’t know – nor do I want to.

Love the blog, by the way.

by dogear on Aug 28, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to the blog dogear

Color me biased, but I think the height difference is what gives D-Will better agility and the ability to change directions more quickly. I see AP as more relying on his speed, quickness and vision. He can break tackles too obviously but he doesn’t have the change of direction ability D-Will has. All this results in the 5.5 YAC which is just an amazing stat.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are advantages to both...

The shorter guy (i.e., D.Will) can certainly “hide” behind those big linemen and cause opposing LBs and DBs to lose him in the scrum. But that means he can’t see as far down field to spy where defenders are. I believe that makes Deangelo’s running style more “instinctive”…i.e., he sees daylight and hits the hole, then reacts as LBs or DBs start heading his way to pick the best route through them as they come into his field of vision.

The taller guy, on the other hand, (i.e., Adrian Peterson) can see over some of those linemen and into the secondary. He can pick his hole through the line to ensure he pops out on the other side where the defense is potentially weaker. And, in some ways, the bigger size makes him a bit more intimidating as he runs down the field towards lighter DBs trying to tackle him.

If I had to choose one over the other, I think I prefer the shorter guy with the instinctive moves. There’s a lot to be said for hiding behind your linemen and picking which hole you want to take. In the running game, most plays don’t go for big yardage anyway. You make most of yards by getting across that line of scrimmage before the defense can really read where the RB is going with the ball. And a smaller guy makes them have to hesitate just for an extra split-second. The cool thing about Deangelo is that’s often enough to get him into the secondary and then he has the speed and moves to either avoid tacklers or spin out of their grasp. Whereas Peterson just uses his raw athleticism and determination to run through people.

In the longterm, I think Deangelo might enjoy a longer career because of his elusiveness and ability to run away from contact. But Peterson seems to seek it out. Adrian is young and resilient, so that’s okay for now. But it’ll catch up to him eventually. Deangelo might last a bit longer, though, and not just because of his running style and size, but also because he’s got Jonathan Stewart (and now Mike Goodson) to help spread out the pounding.

—Neil

by NSpicer on Aug 28, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally...

…I think they’re both really good RBs. I don’t really care which one is supposedly “the best” in the NFL or even our conference, because I’m just happy we’ve got “one of the best” RBs in the league now. It’s been awhile since we could say that. And we needed the transformation that Fox and Hurney pulled off with last year’s draft and reshaping the O-line to help Deangelo be so successful.

Bottom line: There are too many variables (many of which you’ve already cited above) that factor into a RB’s performance. One guy might be more “superior” than the other in athleticism, vision, YAC-PC, etc. But that’s looking at things under a microscope to determine individual talent. And this is a team game. So that’s kind of a moot exercise, you know? The only thing that matters is how well is your team doing as a result of having that specific RB on your roster? Is he an MVP candidate within your own team’s success? And right now, I’d very much say Deangelo fits that description to a tee. And so does Adrian Peterson for the Vikings.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Aug 28, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dont take things so personally

;)

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 28, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

williams is the best back in the nfl

and thats not because im a panthers fan. like the article said, he had less carries than peterson but still averaged more yards a carry & he didnt fumble. clearly, williams is the best.

"one is the loneliest number that youll ever see"

by D.W.G. on Aug 28, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And more TDs

but who really cares about those

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 28, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neil

You are always so very PC. It’s always cool to get your point of view. But come on buddy, just between me and you, which one do YOU think is best? ;-)

by rawjem01 on Aug 28, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or even "Would you trade D-Will for AP straight up?"

Not me…if you were asking. The fumbling problem and all.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Smith has been "the guy" on this team for awhile now

But I can think of 1 or 2 guys I would probably trade straight up for him. But with DeAngelo it’s not as easy. Has he supplanted Smith as the Panthers best player?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 28, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they're both "the guys" on this team...

Deangelo is “the guy” in the running game. And Steve Smith is “the guy” in the passing game. They fully complement each other because of that. You can have the greatest RB in the world (see Adrian Peterson), but if your passing game is suffering because you don’t have “a guy” to make it respectable or great, you’re really not going to have that much team success unless other variables (like a stifling defense or freakish special teams — see Chicago) are helping you.

Conversely, you can have the greatest WR on your team, but if the running game is a total shambles, defenses will just drop back tons of DBs to double or triple cover your aerial threat (see the Panthers vs. Seattle in 2005) and your team will suffer for it. I raise this point all the time when people start assessing individual players or dumping accolades on them. Yes, individual talent certainly helps. But it’s not the be-all, end-all of a team’s success. That’s what I like about football over so many other sports. There are so many different parts and types of player positions that have to work in harmony to achieve the best results on the field. It’s a game of strategy with multiple points of attack and weakness from team-to-team, because of that. And it keeps everything far more interesting and complex.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Aug 29, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So that begs the question...

In equal worlds… Same o-line, same no of carries, same opponents, etc… Who would be the better RB?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 29, 2009 9:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I would keep Deangelo over Peterson...

…but it’s for a different reason than you might think.

I’d keep him because of his chemistry. Deangelo is a legitimately great person, first and foremost. He’s a perfect fit for this team in both personality and talent. He’s great friends with Jonathan Stewart. They complement each other in ways I couldn’t see Adrian Peterson ever duplicating. And again, I think it comes back to assessing how your team does with a particular player in the lineup. Deangelo matches what Adrian Peterson gives the Vikings in their ground game. And he’s better at ball-control, which is vital for this Panthers team.

And that’s my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Aug 28, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

DeAngelo has to one of the most humble, fun-to be around players I have ever seen.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 28, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And in this city...

…with our type of fans and expectations in the South, Deangelo is a perfect fit.

by NSpicer on Aug 29, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DeAngelo is the best...

At least to me. Having a RB that can make his own running lanes when the OL can’t do it for him, turn bad plays into 3 yard gains, and NEVER cough up the football – that’s a deadly combination. We are lucky to have D-Will running the ball 20+ times a game.

Don’t get me wrong – nothing personal against AP, I’d be happy with him too.

by bwsmith25 on Aug 28, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to the blog bwsmith25

From Moncks Corner huh? Finally someone from my area. I’m on Johns Island, work in N. Chas. Cheers!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Aug 28, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks...

Nice to know someone else is representing the greater Charleston area…

Really enjoy reading the blog, btw.

by bwsmith25 on Aug 28, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the moral to the story is...

We Panther fans are biased towards DeAngelo. Who would have guessed?

Just Sayin!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Aug 28, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A bird in the hand...

…is worth two in the bush.

by NSpicer on Aug 29, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're the type...

…that thinks the grass is greener under that bush. haha

by bigdavis on Aug 29, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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