A Word to Panther Fans and Pep Haters.
by WillParker81 on Aug 2, 2009 1:22 AM EDT
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PrintThe following fanpost comes courtesy of Will Parker, long time Panther fan and CSR reader
Julius Peppers has been quite the odd ball when compared to many of the other elite sports stars in this era. He has always shied away from the spot light, rarely doing interviews and almost never seeking them out. In a time where TV, radio, and print exposure can bring in a fortune for any star athlete, I do not think I have ever seen one thing that Pep has promoted. So when his rookie contract finally came to an end and he stated his interest in playing for a NFL team based outside of North Carolina, he was just doing what he normally does, be different.
More after the jump
Many people, myself included, thought he would want to finish his career with the Panthers and stay in the state that raised him, so to speak. For those that do not know, Julius Peppers went to high school in Nash county (about 30 minutes east of Raleigh), played both basketball and football at a high level for UNC Chapel Hill, and up to this point has only played professionally for the Carolina Panthers.
No matter which team he went to, Julius would have become even more rich than he already is. Not only that, to my knowledge, he has never signed an endorsement deal. Because of those reasons, it shocked me when a guy was being thought of by many people as greedy. Yes, he is scheduled to make around $18 million this year, but if he was all about the Benjamins, then why not seek out deals for 6 hour energy, go get daddy.com, over armour, SPike nARQ, etc? Why not go out and try and talk your way out of the Cincy Bengals, err Carolina Panthers?
Peppers has been quoted recently in the Charlotte Observer as being 100% committed to the Panthers.
“That's been my attitude and approach in every season I've played. I have no reason not to put forth full effort in any game that I play.”
Here is a link to read the rest of that article/interview. Until I have more substantial evidence than some statistical analysis to make me think otherwise, I will continue to believe him. What actions has he had which make him not a man of his word? If he were taking plays off, don't you think at least one player would step up and call him out on it? The only thing I heard from players on the Panthers during this whole off-season fiasco was how much they wanted him back. These guys know how much money he was due to be paid. They are relatively intelligent men. They would have known the ramifications of his cap hit. Yet they all supported him and wanted him back, in the trenches, fighting side-by-side. To me that speaks volumes.
For those of you reading this that are Panther fans, the only thing you need to know is that Julius Peppers is still a Carolina Panther. I urge you to stand and cheer for him as loud as ever when he gets introduced to those at Bank of America stadium for the first time in '09. Remember this, he could have been a lot worse, both as a player and as a person. Does anyone remember Courtney Brown? Would any of you rather he had the personality of an OchoCinco? With the start of training camp today, a new NFL season is upon us, one in which I believe we have a very real shot at a Super Bowl. Ask yourself this, do you want to start possibly our first Super Bowl season off by booing one of our own? Come on now, just because we play the Eagles and the Jets doesn't mean we have to act like them. I have enjoyed writing this post. My hope is that it at least made you think. Go Panthers!!!
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OK before someone gets on a tirade, let's do the math:
1. Pep generally performs well. He has his exceptions, but so does Dwight Freeney and Jared Allen and other top DEs.
2. Contract disagreements happen. Egos happen. Personal wishes happen. We fans wish they didn’t but that’s not reality. I am bothered Pep vocalized a wish to be elsewhere, but for economic, personal, and business reasons, he did, and it’s done. Still, 2007 as well as his down games cost him his trade wish and probably several million dollars. That’s not a criticism that’s economics, and Pep and his agent know it.
3. The league GMs are not stupid, and neither is Pep. They and he, and his agent know 2007 was a crap year and he has had some games where he “appears” to be slacking off. Whether he was truly slacking off is a question only Pep himself can answer. We all know what it looks like, but nevertheless, Marty Hurney offered him the highest contract ever, so he must know something.
4. Pep doesn’t talk much. Fans, that’s a blessing not a curse. We could have T.O. or DeAngelo Hall. I’ll take The Silent Giant any day.
5. Pep said some dumb things, to be sure. But they’re done now, and he can un-say them, he can only move on. Pep would be wise to remember the proverb: “Better to be thought a fool, then to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.”
6. He’ll start playing in 2009 and will probably do okay. His numbers show typically 10-15 sacks, 50 tackles, and forcing 4 turnovers. I personally hope he does better, but that’s his history. A bonus is, with Everette Brown and a year-older Charles Johnson on the other side, he should get some decent opportunities for dominant numbers.
Pep will be fine. In spite of the wish to leave and subsequent beating by media and fans, I believe the guy has integrity and pride and enjoys being one of the best ever. I believe he’s committed to the game and his team when he is on the field.
Fans, rejoice, opening day is only about 6 weeks away!
i disagree
the pep talk is nice and all, but let’s be real, we don’t know what he’s going to do. We don’t know and cannot tell if he’s going all out or not. Other posts showed that he’s much better against weaker opponents. That’s true for everybody, but not everybody has as tough a schedule as we do. Regardless of how he plays this upcoming season, he’s not important enough to be the highest paid player on the team, and he might find a way to disappear when the game is on the line. We don’t know. I hope you’re right, but I have little faith in his loyalty and the whole economics/business aspect when he was completely against playing for only $16.7 million. He talked the talked, now he needs to walk the walk. If you played first, then got paid, what would a guy have to do to be worth that much, 20 sacks, 75 tackles, or more? I hope he comes to play and is a dominant force. He’s real quiet and all that, but it would be nice to see him upset after a loss when he had a horrible game.
by usana_gaines on Aug 2, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Being upset after a game doesn't change the result.
Since when is Football more about show then production? Smitty’s trash talk and 2005 end zone celebrations were fun, but they didn’t change his numbers. Ocho-Cinco is the king of shenanigans, yet his team still sucks. Let Pep be Pep and quit holding him to the new NFL/Hollywood agenda.
Being a potential hall-o-famer should be enough?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
enough? not quite
he really needs to turn it up if he thinks he’s gonna get to the hall. it’s not gonna happen the way he’s been going. as far as the talking goes not changing the game, well, effort does. some people are so competitive that you know they give 100% every play, and losing bothers them. they hate it. they can’t wait to get out there and compete again. no one is holding pep to a NFL/hollywood agenda. but while other people spoke of the cardinals game and the disappointing end of the season, they spoke of how they couldn’t wait to get out there and give it another shot. that loss doesn’t motivate pep to get back to work. his doubters don’t motivate him to get to work. $17 million dollars doesn’t motivate him to get back out there and go to work, and get some wins, and i am not convinced he is overly concerned about wins and losses. he was so much more motivated and worked so much harder against all-pro tackles in the pro bowl, than he did in the playoffs against a no name LT. He had 3 sacks, an INT and a fum rec in the Pro Bowl, and not even a blip on the radar in the playoffs. maybe he was playing for a new team and contract in the pro bowl.
i hope that i am completely wrong about him, and he proves it on the field. But I doubt he will.
They barely game plan in the pro bowl
Pep is the primary focus of some of the brightest OCs in the league when they play the Panthers. Just like DCs game plan around Steve Smith… Who by the way averaged less than 40 yards against NYG, DEN and OAK. DeAngelo averaged 3.7 ypc through the first 7 games. Did they take those games off?
Moreover there are plenty of highly motivated guys out there that suck. Pep gets it done in his own way. I have heard the Hall-of-fame potential mentioned on ESPN and NFLN… NOT that he is going, but that it is in reach if he continues to play at a high level. Panther fans ought to boast about having such a DE.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If you need ESPN and NFLN to see the Hall of Fame potential in Peppers then I don’t know what to say to you. I don’t trust ESPN to evaluate anyone anyway. They are an entertainment network, not a sports network.
I do find it funny you say “potential” when referring to Peppers and he has been in the league 7 years now.
I think it is a lot harder to compare a DE to a WR because a WR relies on the QB a lot more than Peppers relies on any of his teammates. When Jake sucks, Smith sucks because Jake has to throw the ball to Smith.
Panthers fans do boast about having Peppers…we also boast about having a weakened backup OL and little to no depth at the DT position because we have no salary cap room because Peppers had a mid career crisis and decided he would give a list of 3 TEAMS he would be willing to be traded to. Whatever, he’s great but he needs to have another great year.
I'd take a guy you could count on every Sunday over a Hall of Famer.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a difference between "shenanigans" and acting like you care.
I’ve never seen Peppers get up or down about much of anything.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I think being even keel can be a good thing. That being said, I can’t help but think we all love Steve Smith’s energy and the way he gets up for a game and comes out and just takes over the CB he is playing against. Sometimes it goes a little far but maybe 50% of that is what I want in Peppers, but that is not his personality.
by bengoodfella on Aug 3, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It can be a good thing.
I think lots of coaches subscribe to the notion that you shouldn’t get too up after a good thing or too down after a bad thing (Fox and Bobby Cox are two notable examples who have discussed it as a philosophy.) However, when you never show an emotional response to anything, it tends to give the impression (right or wrong) that you don’t care.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The most telling quote from that entire interview:
“My thing with that is you’re never going to be the greatest, no matter how hard you try.”
You think Jerry Rice ever said that? Reggie White? Michael Strahan?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Good grab.
You got to wonder if the guy is clinically depressed from such statements. No wonder he tries to stay quiet all the time.
Again I say:
"Better to be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt."
he was right
he will never be the greatest, no matter how hard he tries. so maybe that shouldn’t be a goal of his. maybe he should be just good enough to get a fatter check.
I personally expect to see Peppers give the same effort and production we have gotten from him for 7 seasons now. He will play incredibly well some games and then in other games I will forget he is on the field.
Bottom line, I am not a Peppers hater, but I am not paying a guy who said he can’t be the greatest no matter how hard he tries to be the highest paid defensive guy in football. There are other football players out there who think they can be the best if they try harder and those guys haven’t been blessed to have the outstanding physical characteristics that J Pep has.
I will not boo him but I also understand he refused to sign a new contract with the Panthers and helped to tie up the salary cap all off season when the Panthers put the franchise tag on him. If he doesn’t want to be the best, that’s fine, don’t expect to get paid like it.
If all he wanted was to be the highest paid defensive player, then he would have signed with us before the 08 season.
Also, being the highest paid defensive player will change from year to year as contracts continue to escalate. I think his quote:
"My thing with that is you’re never going to be the greatest, no matter how hard you try."
was not the best choice of words. Meaning, that he has an enormous amount of respect for guys like White, Smith, Jones, etc. Also, look at Michael Jordan, even after everything he has done in basketball, there are still some people who do not think him to be the G.O.A.T. This is an issue of opinion vs fact. It can never be proven.
Will Parker
Jordan tried to be the greatest though. There is a difference between the two players in motivation. It is not a question of what others think but what he wants from himself. It is not an issue of opinion and fact either because Peppers is not talking about what others think about him but what he thinks about himself. t’s an issue how high a standard Peppers sets for himself and if he says he can try his hardest and still not be the greatest, then Peppers has set his own ceiling for his talent. He may need some more confidence.
I am not going to boo him and he is still a great player, but I think a good portion of this region is a little too taken with him because he is a home state boy and played for UNC.
Being called the greatest is a matter of opinion.
We must be reading the quote differently, as I stated above. I believe he meant that a thing like being called the greatest is not something he can ever attain, b/c it is as I said, a matter of opinion.
Pep never said that he does not try to be the greatest. Also, nobody other than Julius himself or God can speak with any certainty about his motivation. So I see no reason in discussing that further.
I am a Wolfpack fan, but I still think he is a great player.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 2, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't say he didn't try.
He said it wasn’t worth trying. If that’s his attitude, why would he try?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
"I think a good portion of this region is a little too taken with him because he is a home state boy and played for UNC."
+a million. See Felton, Ray and May, Sean.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
No.
If he respected players who came before him, he could (and should) have said that. But he didn’t. He implied that he had no ambition or desire, which really doesn’t surprise me at all. Do you think Michael Jordan cares about people who don’t think he’s the best? I doubt it. He knows he’s the best because that’s what he worked to do every single day of his career.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly! Just like pep dosen't if you or I think he is trying hard or not, he knows that he is.
Will Parker
Wrong.
If he though he was the greatest, he never would have said he it was impossible to be the greatest.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
WRONG!!!
I just wanted to write that. :-) Man you really have some personal issues. You take everything personal, at least it seems that way. Also you tend to not have ANY respect for people who have a different view point than you.
Back on topic. I have some questions for you MP:
1. How can you say with any certainty who Pep respects?
2. How can you say that he does not repect some one because he does not mention them in a interview?
3. Have you read the interview and looked at the context of the statement? Check out Jaxon’s post about this issue.
What Pep “implies” is in the eye of the beholder. You and others seem to think he is some lazy bum who should not even be in the league. So, when you read an interview of him, you read it through your filter of established beliefs. Just as I would do the same as an optimist and supporter of the team.
Really I do not desire to continue this bantering about Pep’s skills, his value to the team, etc. I think we all have done enough of that in the Pep vs Other DE post. My intention for this article was to entice some thought in those that were wanting to bash Pep either at TC, games, or elsewhere and hopefully sway some into at least remaining quiet instead of booing him. My belief is that booing a player on your own team does not help the team and I want and believe this team has a shot at a Super Bowl.
Will Parker
I guess I am “others” in this diatribe? Either way, I never said I would boo Peppers, I can’t speak for MP, but I never said I would boo him.
I am going “imply” from your statements that since someone differs from you on Julius Peppers they are neither an optimist nor supporter of the team. I don’t want to infer too much but if you read the article as an optimist and supporter of the team, someone who reads it the opposite would be a pessimist and not a supporter of the team. It doesn’t really matter. You are right about that.
I am not bashing Peppers either, just explaining my general complaints about his performance based on how I have seen him play in the past.
I am not going to boo Peppers at the games this year. There is a difference in being critical of someone and booing them at the game, and I am not going to cross that line.
To clarify.
I am happy that you will not be booing Pep at the game.
I believe that there are many pessimists who support the Panthers. I just think being overly critical of a multiple All Pro/Pro Bowl player at a premium position who just had the best season of his career and who plays for your team to be self defeating. IMO, of course.
Will Parker
Yes.
Being critical is silly. He’s two years removed from a sub-3 sack season, but should have our unquestioned full confidence.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We can go back and forth on his stats, really we already have.
I would like him to be more consistent, I have said this many times. I just do not think that letting him walk or trading him for next to nothing would have put us in a better position to win a SB. I already know your sentiment and I believe you know mine. We can just leave it at that. Agree to disagree. Hopefully.
Will Parker
1. I didn’t say who he did or didn’t respect. I said that if that were his implication, he should have said it.
2. Again, if his implied intent was to convey respect for those who came before him, he should have said so.
3. Yes, I read the entire interview. Lots of athlete non-speak (as many do, I don’t fault him for this), but, to me, the statement we’re analyzing was the most telling of the entire conversation. A player with his talent should strive for greatness; yes, to be the best. Peppers essentially admitted that he could never reach that standard, so why try?
I said nothing about him being a “lazy bum” at any point. I guess that’s part of you not having any respect for others with a different viewpoint than your own. Frankly, it’s not your place to tell any other fan of the organization how they should or should not support the team. The only standard negative reactions take are the standard set by an individual. You are free to espouse your own beliefs, but do not expect others to adhere to them. Somebody might accuse you of taking things too personally.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice :-) Sarcasm, I like that.
It seems each of us has imposed there own beliefs into many a conversation on here.
As for the lazy bum quote, I just extrapoilated (sp?) from pervious statements about Pep’s lack of consistency. Specifically how he “takes plays off”. So yes, you may have never said the exact words, the meaning was still there, from my interpretation.
“Frankly, it’s not your place to tell any other fan of the organization how they should or should not support the team.” Ditto. I was just sharing my beliefs and why i think them by using some examples. I can continue to give many more as to the difference between positive thinking and negative thinking. Actually there have been MANY studies on this issue and I will be searching for these to share the “statistical facts” since they are used so often here on this blog.
Will Parker
Instead of "the greatest," I think his meaning was "perfect."
Peppers is an enigma.
He says few words, and gives few interviews, because, IMO (and I don’t claim to know the man), he doesn’t consider himself to be especially articulate.
His play is spotty: sometimes dominant, sometimes seemingly passive. This has caused many of us to come down hard on him, especially when coupled with memories of the stupid tactic his no-brain agent used to try to force a trade.
But this carefully worded topic by Will Parker asked us to think — and I have tried to do just that.
It’s been a loonnggg off-season for us all, and we’ve spent as lot of time and writing hashing out our various opinions about Jake, Pep, and (I’m really sick of this one) Michael Vick — which is irrelevant to the Panthers as arguing about O.J. coming back. (He ain’t coming back Here, and if he ever gets suited up against us, we know how to defense him anyway, so give it a break, guys.)
But Will’s post wasn’t about Pep’s stats, which we can argue about til we’re blue in the face, but about cheering for him as a Panther. I’m surprised that even 13% of voters say they’ll boo him. What’s that supposed to do for the team we all supposedly want to win??
Whatever may happen in 2010, he’s OUR Panther now, and he says he wants to give it all he’s got. Let’s get behind him with our backing and support. He should be plenty motivated to do his best this year, since if he really Does want out, he’ll have to prove his worth to another team.
Season’s almost here. Go Pep! Go, Panthers!
Don't blame his words, actions, and desires on his agent.
Unless, of course, you’re trying to imply that he, as a grown man, allows somebody else to run his life.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You bring up a good point there...
I think it IS entirely possible that he turns over his business and career decisions, including what to say about them, to his agent. Frankly, I think a lot of pro athletes do the same. Just so happens that Peppers’ agent has little experience, no other clients, and poor judgment about how to negotiate his boy’s future. He should have arranged some endorsement contracts, and the fact that he has not shows me that he has little savvy in the pro sports world.
Reggie White and Bruce Smith are the greatest DE's ever, IMO.
Deacon Jones might be up there, but I am too young to have seen him play.
The greatest of anything does not come around all that often, and quite frankly is an unrealistic expectation for anyone IMO. I will settle for him just being great.
Will Parker
I don’t see how it is unrealistic for Peppers to want to be the greatest ever. He’s lacking nothing, including talent, the great DE’s have had in the past…except in my opinion, the drive to be the best. I am not talking about staying in shape or anything like that but Bruce Smith and Reggie White would run over their mother to get to the quarterback, I just haven’t ever seen that in Peppers. Maybe it is a product of his quiet personality.
by bengoodfella on Aug 2, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pep never said he did not want to be the greatest.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 2, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He also said it wasn't worth it to try.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, for Peppers I am afraid “all he has” isn’t 100%. That’s what I am talk about when discussing him. Feel free to ignore me, I have been saying Peppers takes plays off since he played at UNC, so I have my script down.
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The best would have that goal in mind.
Particularly one with as much physical ability as Peppers has.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it is fair to say that the fans who are “haters” set higher expectations for Peppers than he does. I don’t consider myself a hater but I see Peppers’ physical ability and just wonder why he can’t be the best ever, why Peppers doesn’t seem to care either way if he is or isn’t. I am not against him and will cheer him when he plays for the Panthers but I expect a lot of him and it disappoints me to see Peppers infers he doesn’t expect as much from himself as I expect from him.
by bengoodfella on Aug 3, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How can YOU say what ANOTHER person SHOULD have on THEIR mind?
Did we not have a discussion before pertaining to forcing our beliefs on others? I would understand if you said, “I wish he would . . .” or "I would like for him to . . . ".
Will Parker
I think I was entirely correct.
Unfortunately, he’ll never be “the best,” as I stated.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
To grab that one statement isn't exactly fair
and its being taken out of context. Here’s the whole exchange:
"My thing is you’re never going to be the greatest no matter how hard you try," he said. "You can get to that point for a certain period of time, but it’s not going to be for very long. You’re not going to be the greatest forever.
"You could always try to get better, and that’s my vision. I want always to do better than what I’ve done. What I did last year was good, but I feel like I can do better and I’ve strived to do better, whether it be in the system I’m placed in or a different one."
Pep is no Rhodes Scholar, he doesn’t always give crystal clear comments, but I think that first sentence is not being portrayed as he meant it. He also said this which I thought was positive:
"I never doubted any of my teammates or anybody, or any of the coaches," he said, "because I feel like this team is headed in the right direction."
Makes you wonder why he said the things he did back in January sure, but come on, you had to know he would strike a conciliatory tone at this point.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Opps, didn't blockquote his entire statement
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Do you think White, Smith, Jones, Strahan, et al were rationalizing their potential that way?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
But I am in no way going to go out of my way to stand and cheer for Julius Peppers. If he had his way, he would not be here playing right now. Why should I stand and cheer when a guy like that gets introduced?
I am not advocating to boo Julius Peppers. He is a Carolina Panther and I will cheer for him when he makes good plays and get on him when he doesn’t…..the same with any other player. I don’t think I could ever bring myself to boo a member of the Carolina Panthers.
He wants out of Charlotte
Because fickle fans rip him because he’s not in the camera pounding his chest. You think he doesn’t listen to the radio or read these blogs? I would feel the same way if I was a ProBowl caliber athlete, getting praised in the national media but ripped at home.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
He wants out of Charlotte because he wants to learn to play a different position and learn a new scheme. At no point has he EVER said it was because of the fans. That’s pure speculation that you are trying to show as fact.
No fans have ever ripped him either for not pounding on his chest, they have ripped him because he has an absurd amount of talent and sometimes doesn’t seem to do a whole lot with it, then blamed it on the coaching staff by saying he wants a different scheme to play in…but he also wants to be paid a lot of money.
As I said above, I will not boo Julius Peppers and I will not want him to fail. I want him to prove me wrong and get 2 sacks against the Eagles and a sack against the Patriots, but I don’t think that is happening.
The reason the national media praises him is because the national media are all idiots who don’t spend their entire time watching Panthers games, the local media and fans do. On a Carolina Panther issue, who do you think has a better feel for the correct dynamics of the situation: The national media who ignore the team most of the time or the local media and fans who watch every game?
Why do you accuse me of proclaiming facts?
Just be cause I said something? Is everything you just said fact? Obviously not! I’m just saying, why would he want to stay? And it’s not just national media, I never hear local media bash him either.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I will never accuse you of proclaiming facts again, don’t worry. That’s what I love about this board, people argue a little differently than other places, you don’t want to be accused of using facts and MP uses numbers to figure everything out.
I am not saying what I am writing is fact, I just use the words that have come out of Peppers mouth and at no point has the idea the fans ripping him been mentioned by him as to why he would want to leave.
I am done discussing this because I don’t know how to reconcile your statements in back to back posts:
“I would feel the same way if I was a ProBowl caliber athlete, getting praised in the national media but ripped at home.”
“And it’s not just national media, I never hear local media bash him either.”
One minute he is getting ripped at home, when you post a response he isn’t getting ripped…so it’s the fans he is worried about?
Really we don’t feel that differently about Peppers.
They are only opinions
I don’t think you heard it from Peps mouth that everyone in the national media are idiots. That was your opinion. It has been shown numerous times on here that even our stats are skewed and don’t show the whole picture. That was my point.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Ok, in my opinion, the national media who don’t cover the Panthers on a regular basis are idiots.
by bengoodfella on Aug 3, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When one makes such a definitive statement:
“He wants out of Charlotte Because fickle fans rip him because he’s not in the camera pounding his chest”
Yes, it would appear they’re trying to make a factual statement.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess if one thinks they are right all the time
Then they might assume others share the same arrogance.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 3, 2009 3:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Observer did a play-by-play chart of Peppers' activities during a game...
And he was awful. They rightfully called him out for his poor play. They have also criticized him for his seeming inability to respond to Richardson’s leadership challenge.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah MP, but they just chose the wrong game. The Observer should have either chosen a game against a bad team or they should have told Peppers and I am sure he would have played better. All they had to do was tell him to turn it on and he would have.
by bengoodfella on Aug 3, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you remember which game?
Link? Just curious because I’d like to see the info
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I'll try to find it.
Initial efforts not going well.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It was during the '07 season.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Before you got in this thread
We already found out that everyone in the media are idiots
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 3, 2009 3:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow, that is exactly what I said:
“The reason the national media praises him is because the national media are all idiots who don’t spend their entire time watching Panthers games, the local media and fans do.”
Wait, check that no I didn’t.
It doesn't even take an idiot to watch a player every play and talk about what happened.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
BECAUSE THAT IS NOT HIS PERSONALITY
In training camp he tried to be more vocal, surprised the heck out of all his teammates. Turns out, he’s not that kind of guys. He’s a type of guy that will go about his business, if he does it well, fine, if he doesn’t, so be it. It just so happens he gets paid 20 mil to do it. Those two drive you nuts, but the fact is we need Peppers. Especially with Kemo gone, if Peppers leaves, instead of being mentioned with Denver, KC, etc, we’ll be right down below them. I know I am tired of this topic, so lets just move on, we all know where each other stands, so at the end of the season we can rehash this, not before, not after.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 4, 2009 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
He wants out of Charlotte because of fans?
You think he wants out of here because of fans ripping him? Charlotte fans? Gee, I hope he doesn’t ever venture out to a place like Philadelphia or Dallas.
If your part of the story was true (I don’t think it is) then I would have SERIOUS questions about Peppers’ state of mind. First, athletes as good as him should be confident enough in themselves to not wilt when they read negative things about them. Second, there are negative things written about any athlete anywhere. How on earth do they deal with it? Oh wait, pretty much every other athlete just goes about their business and is still able to do their job.
The reality is that the majority of the fans here adored Peppers. Hometown kid who went to the most popular college in the state. Sure, when he played poorly the media got on him (DUH) but that is just the way it is. If he doesn’t like it he is welcome to stop being a professional athlete. And yet even with all the support and all of the acolades he collected here, he thinks he can do better elsewhere. Hey, no problems here from me…..but don’t expect me to kiss the floor that he walks on.
Nice try
Pep or Jake are the most controversial players to talk about, because half the fans love them, half hate them… you can’t honestly deny that.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
No, I cannot deny that
However I can question how it relates to what I said.
by R-F on Aug 3, 2009 10:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually via my very scientific poll
about 25% hate one or both. A very vocal 25%. 75% love one or both ;)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
We need a percentage for
I’m watching him with a microscope, waiting to pounce on any resemblance of a poor performance.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think it would be more like a gang tackle
I can see a weekly report this season, make that two:
- The Jake Report
- The Pep Report
We can use arrows and stoplight colors to show whether their performance is up or down week to week!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
No...
I’d say, as RF did, that the majority of the fans like Peppers. The split on Delhomme is probably closer to 50-50, but there may be more that don’t support him at this point than do. Just wait for the first preseason game and listen to the introductions.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Everything about your middle paragraph is dead on.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
What southie said,
I have heard repeatedly people on here bashing Pep for that exact reason! None of us can say whether or not he cares, when I play I go almost completely silent, does that mean I’m not excited about football? No, it just means I am focusing on the task at hand and trying to stay classy.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 3, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Silence is an indication of focus.
A big goofy grin when you’re losing by three scores is not.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: big, goofy grin --
there are some people (Phil Mickleson’s a good example) who facial structure makes it appear that they’re smiling at all times, even when there’s nothing to smile about. Whether that’s “goofy” or not depends on one’s predisposition towards that person. Other people look like they’re frowning, when relaxed.
I don’t think that in itself is a reason to criticize, or assume they don’t care.
That said in defense of Peppers’ “grin,” I’ve always said he DOES take plays off. He has all the physical talent in the world, but the position he plays would be better served had he more of an aggressive, driven, even angry, personality. He wouldn’t have to be a showman, beating his chest, just less passive on (I’d roughly estimate) maybe 25% of plays.
He’s probably a nice guy, with shall we say a sweet demeanor, in private life. But that doesn’t make him the dominant DE he could be, with the strength, agility, and speed he has.
You know, if his agent (I believe) hadn’t had him mouth off about wanting to go elsewhere, we wouldn’t be belaboring all this, and would be instead looking forward to another year of production from him.
There's a difference between pouding your chest and changing your expression.
And I’m not fickle. I’ve never liked his disappearing act.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
So you'd rather him pound his chest? Or grin less?
What about Deangelo’s disappearing act in the first 7 games?… Only averaged 3.9 ypc. Does he get the Peppers treatment too? Or did his sideline Matrix dance prove that he was really giving it his all?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 3, 2009 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Williams has never been paid a mil a game.
Nor has he been elected to the Pro Bowl. It was his first season as a starter, and he was a third-year player. Peppers is a multiple-time All Pro and Pro-Bowler.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing he could disagree with is that he's an elite player
Of which I disagree to disagree.
It’s funny how divided we are on this. It’s like were rival gangs now :)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
He's also paid 33% more than any other player at that position...
despite the fact that much evidence shows he’s not even the best player at that position.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the NFL. Many times a player gets paid squat in comparison to their on field production.
See DeAngelo Williams, Steve Slaton, or any player who produces at a very high level and is in their rookie contract, barring the few who are at the top of the draft.
Pep was not paid nearly this much back in 2004 when he had 64 tackles 11 sacks 2 INT’s and a TD. His cap hit I’m sure was still high, but the point is NFL contracts usually are back loaded, such as his.
Will Parker
Again Peppers didn't write his contract.
If the team values him so much that they would rather pay him a Mil per game then let him go, then that is their fault not his.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
They've offered him several extensions that would surely have lowered his cap number and increased his overall pay.
He was the one who chose not to accept them.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a contract for you MP.
Don’t worry about what it says but sign it anyway out of the good for the team. No, do not read the fine print. What? Yes it says that you have to wear a Pep jersey every time the Panthers play or you will be fined. Oh, and yes it says that you are required to publically praise pep every time he makes even an assisted tackle.
This is VERY extreme and intended to be funny. The point is that there is a lot more to contracts than just his total salary. Phillip Rivers was offered bogus contracts by SD before they finally gave him one that was reasonable.
Example: Rivers would not have recieved a bonus unless he won a SB and it was not even a fair “SB bonus”. Then the bonus increased when he won a 2nd SB and so on. Yeah they had bonuses written in, but they were not fair or realistic.
Will Parker
Aha.
So despite the fact that Peppers has publicly stated he doesn’t want to play here as much as other teams, you’re certain they didn’t offer him a fair deal just because he didn’t sign one. Like that logic.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think his point was...
You are blaming Pep for not signing. Yet a lot goes into a contract, and none of us know the details. You can’t blame him for being franchised, and you can’t blame him for not signing a contract that he doesn’t like. That’s business.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
What's that mean exacrly?
That’s equivalent to the scientific observation that there’s a difference between scratching one’s foot and winking.
So what?
I was responding to the following statement:
He wants out of Charlotte Because fickle fans rip him because he’s not in the camera pounding his chest.
I was offering the counterpoint that that’s not what people who are upset about his on-field demeanor are looking for.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you like me to revise it?
He probably wants out of Charlotte because fickle fans rip him even though he’s a probowl DE.
Is that more precisely accurate for ya? The same point is made either way. I think you are arguing semantics now, because deep down you know Pep is not at fault and a heck of a player. Maybe I’m wrong… just sayin!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Fickle fans?
Yeah, Pep wants out of CHARLOTTE due to fans. Are you serious? Can you imagine how much a player like Peppers would get ripped in a big market after the year he had in 2007?
Fans of every team are going to critize everyone for everything whether it is fair or not. This is not something new or something that only happens in Charlotte. It happens everywhere. Is it fair? Hell no. Some fans are flat out stupid and baseless in their criticism. But it isn’t the fans job to worry about a players feelings, it’s the players job to deal with it and go out there and produce. That is why he gets paid to play the game of football.
Do you really think that Peppers would be criticized ONLY in Charlotte? Do you honestly believe that?
Who's being fickle?
I’ve never liked him and his inconsistent ways.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Despite the fact he is a Pro Bowl DE
Would you rather guys like Dewayne White. White is as consistent as they come, believe me!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 5, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions
No.
I’d rather have Aaron Kampman at less than half the cost.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
How bout a cardboard cutout of Pep
You can get those free at sports bars sometimes. But they don’t pound their chest so…
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Well, they show just about as much emotion.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would I do that?
I don’t live in their market. I don’t care for any of their players on a personal level.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Let it go !!
Peppers found out what he was worth on the open market given his age, and the kinda defense/team he was requesting to go to. Their were no takers for him could it have been that our price tage was to high or given the fact that peppers is now 29 going on 30 an really only has 3 good yrs of double digit sack numbers in the tank. PEPPERS is back with us now, let all the hating go by the waste side and lets go play the game an act like we have some sense in training camp; Please smitty place nice this year.
Go Panthers !! Cannot wait for Fanfest !!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Aug 2, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
"If he were taking plays off, don't you think at least one player would step up and call him out on it?"
No, I don’t. Professional athletes are in a mafia of sorts, and they adhere to the four walls rule (i.e. nothing said amongst them and no problems about each other are aired in public.) One of the best examples of this came during a Rodney Harrison interview last week on the radio. When asked about Randy Moss, a guy notorious for taking plays off during his days with the Raiders (it’s been analyzed on film many a time), he refused to call him out over it.
Finally, why would you defend only Peppers from the home booing. He won’t be the first (Delhomme, Carr), and he certainly won’t be the last to hear the displeasure of the fanbase because of his attitude and inconsistency in performing.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
I simply would like to start the season off with support of "our" team and everone on it.
As one who trains athletes, i can tell you that there are many people in this world who share your pessimistic pov. Athletes are people too, and if you REALLY want the Panthers to succeed, then support them, for the start. You can look at teams like the Eagles and Jets. Two teams who have unruly fans who are just as likely to spit on as they are to cheer their own team. The Eagles and Jets are have not won a SB in quite some time. Lets look at the Steelers. They have the best fans in the league IMO. They are also a very successful team. There are MANY other factors that play into being a good team, but my main point is this, cheering for your team helps while booing does not. Also, I am not talking about booing a terrible performance, like the Az game. I am talking about introductions.
Will Parker
I do support them
I have season tickets, I buy merchandise, I watch all of their broadcasts start to finish. Bottom line, though, crowd reaction should not affect a player or team on the field; if they can’t handle being criticized, they should probably find another occupation.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And Superdome advantages are a myth too?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
That's more about turf than fans.
Further, the kind of noise that produces false starts and communication breakdowns can come from sources other than the fans.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The Metrodome, for one, has pumped sound for years.
Seattle does the same thing at their place.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You know if you touch them it doesn't cure any diseases right?
They are made of the same stuff we are. Let’s not assume them non-human attributes.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
What?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You know if you touch them it doesn't cure any diseases right?
They are made of the same stuff we are. Let’s not assume them non-human attributes.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
The same nonsense statement repeated is still nonsense.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Well...
One could look at our home record over Fox’s tenure and suggest that yes, it is.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I would.
The better team on a given day wins the game. Doesn’t matter where it’s played. Both teams have to play in the same environment.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying playing in Seattle is just as loud and hostile
for our offense as it is for theirs?
by Flowing Willow on Aug 5, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No, but that has nothing to do with the fans.
It’s because they pump in canned noise through the speakers.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
So let me get this right... "has nothing to do with the fans"
So… A dome makes canned noise louder, but not the fans? You got some scientific study to back that one up?
And if the players should be able to handle fan noise, why should they not be able to handle canned noise?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
On that same line of thinking
I can handle cheese, but not canned cheese. : ) Also, pumping in noise is illegal, Colts were investigated for it a season or so ago.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 6, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
...which is why it happens regularly?
Seattle certainly did it last season. The Patriots mentioned it while preparing for a game against them.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm, what?
I didn’t say anything like that. Noise is noise. Unfortunately, teams have the capacity to choose whether to add artificial noise to the other team’s offense or not. And yes, it’s harder to deal with noise than no noise. On a broad level, it is much more difficult to deal with fake noise through a speaker than the easily defeated production of fans in places like Charlotte.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So you argument now has to do with no noise?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Well said buddy
Good thoughts Will! We need more people being positive. Really, it gets old with people being so negative and hard to please. Its easy to bash and be skeptic of people’s motives and don’t consider the whole picture. I’m sure if people analyzed us “regular Joes” then it would easy to do the same so thanx for presented “other” insights than what I hearing fan repeat what other ideas say. Cudos for original thoughts and digging for something positive. I agree, overall Pep seems like a good dude, someone you would hang with outside of football, he has every reason to be arrogant/flashy/cocky but does not make those remarks because he is not. I’m sure he plays hard, we as fans just want him to dominant like he does on Madden haha. But life is not a video game. Not to mention, better teams have better stategies and better OL, since the word ‘better’. And Pep isn’t the only one who performs spotty from a DL perspective. He had a great year considering the previous one and people want to take that away from him like he didn’t EARN it. Believe me, he earned it! Give him credit where credit is due. I’m curious to see how Everett Brown affects Peps performance, also with Brayton as DT on passing situations. My favorite comment is we do not have to act like NYJ/PHI fans who are seemingly impossible to please. I want a Super Bowl, but if thats the only reason who pull for the Panthers than that is self-serving…football is much more than that! A team respresents sacrifice, belief in each other, uniting in adversity, holding integrity in defeat, bouncing back after loses, coming through under pressure, contributing talents for the benefit of the whole, glorifying the team not self, and most of all community! As a follower and supporter of our players, I’m sick of hearing my ‘fellow’ fans bash Jake and Pep like they’ve never done anything. Believe me, these guys are contributors and winners far beyond the stat lines (and they’re stats are above par anyways). Together, among others, they have provided the most enjoyable teams in the short Panther history (other than the one Kerry Collins year). Give me a break, people who are hard to please are hard to please because life has already made them bitter and the Panther players become an easy place to put that sewage. I’m proud of Jake, of Pep, of the way Smitty/Lucas handled the awful altercation last season, the way the Panthers Org bounced back after adverse 07 season, I’m proud of our draftees year after year, the way the team represents the city….and what I’m speaking of goes further than on the field actions. And on the field we are NO slouch. We are a physical team to be reckoned with this year. We have the pieces. One last thought, how many of my ‘fellow’ fans disbelieved in D-Wheels last off season? I mean, you can’t see how these bust their tales off-season after off-season. D-Wheels has always possessed exceptional talent and showed glimpses before breaking out last year. I believed we was that good before last year. I believe Jake has yet to reach his full potential. I believe Pep is due for a record-setting season, I believe Smitty could eclipse 2,000 yrds receiving, I believe D-Wheels/J-Stew’s friendship will produce a likewise season, our OL is a beast, Beason is one of the best upcomings players in the WHOLE league, Chris Harris is one of the best SS in the league…I mean give me a break….Lord willing no injuries, we have a squad to be excited about. If things go wrong or the season turns out tough, that’s the nature of the NFL! Its not because we have sucky players. Winning is a privilege thats EARNED, not a guarantee! So enjoy the season. Enjoy the clutch performances. Enjoy the work our players put in that produces the heart and determination…I’m just saying
PSL Owner since inception, NC native, and Carolina Panther loyalist.
by NickWright529PSL on Aug 3, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
"And Pep isn’t the only one who performs spotty from a DL perspective"
But have we not shown that Peppers is more inconsistent on a game-to-game basis than any other top DE in the NFL at this point? Also, Brayton played DT last year in passing situations pretty frequently. That was the package where Johnson got most of his sacks. Also, you need to learn that there is a big difference between being a fan and being delusional. That last bit is more the latter than the former.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Wall of text = very hard to read.
It’s good to hear you are so supportive of the team, though I always hate it when Panthers fans are unfavorably compared to PHI or NY fans. There is a difference in being jerks like some of those fans are and accepting mediocrity. I personally refuse to accept mediocrity and I think holding the players accountable (since we do pay their salaries) is a good way to do that.
I find it interesting that Nick would infer there are negative people on this board when I would say most of this board are the ones going to the games when the Panthers were 1-15. I know I was there. I would rather have negative people who care about the team than positive people who come to the games when things are going well.
I don’t want Smith to get 2,000 yards receiving because that will mean a 2nd option probably did not step up this year. I would love to see Smith get 1,200 and the other 2-3 WR get the yardage. The Panthers won’t succeed in the long run if Jake stares him down all the time…plus in the Panthers offense if Smith can get 2,000 yards we are probably behind a lot.
by bengoodfella on Aug 3, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we're unfavorably compared because the crowd is inconsistent.
First, the problems of being such a young franchise include having tons of fans in the area (and even PSL-holders) who have another team they’d root on in favor of the Panthers when they come to town. When we’re not playing well and the Cowboys, ’Skins, or Steelers come to town, there are often tens of thousands cheering for the other side. That looks bad.
Another thing that hurts us is the “wine and cheese” attitude that is some times prevalent, particularly in the lower bowl and club level. To be shouted down for standing and cheering while the defense is trying to make a third-down stop on our end of the field is sad, but it’s happened to me more than once. This problem has something to do with the idea that the uptown folk love to bring clients in on their tickets, as well as the fact that the BoA has become a place to be seen rather than a place to just watch a game.
I also love your second paragraph. Thank you for noting that not spinning every move and decision made by your team and its players into a positive thing doesn’t mean you’re not a fan.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t even get me started on the “other team” thing. I went to the playoff game a few years ago against Dallas and there were tons of Cowgirls fans there.
Your second paragraph is dead on and I hate it. I know there are families with kids there but I get so tired of the Southern hospitality BS that goes on. I went to the KC game last year and the first thing the guy said to me was that it was his son’s birthday and please try not to yell too loudly because it hurts his ears. I heard it more as, “please don’t enjoy your experience at the game and act as if you are watching it on television…except be less loud.”
My fiance had the “wine and cheese” thing happen to her at the Tampa Bay game. They got tickets to the game for work and some clients and then left before half time. They drove an hour and a half from Greensboro to Charlotte to stay until before half time. She was pissed off because she wanted to watch the game. It’s insane.
I like Panthers fans but I have been told to quiet down and to please not stand on a few different times. Of course it has happened at Braves game as well…
its cause there are too many Tarhole fans around here...=)
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 3, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't disagree with that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you're delusional, man
Great post.
Referring to the post that follows mine, one needs to keep in mind that MP pretty much considers those who differ from his opinions are in one degree or another “delusional.”
Wrong.
When someone expects the entire team to break records and generally overrates our players and their potential productivity (
I believe Pep is due for a record-setting season, I believe Smitty could eclipse 2,000 yrds receiving, I believe D-Wheels/J-Stew’s friendship will produce a likewise season, our OL is a beast, Beason is one of the best upcomings players in the WHOLE league, Chris Harris is one of the best SS in the league), that’s delusional. Realism isn’t a negative factor for one’s fandom.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're allowed to call someone delusional, eh?
I thought such personal assessments of another’s opinions had no place here.
Frankly, other than the 2,000 yard “belief” about Smith, I think all of the other comments made in the paragraph you highlighted to underscore your psychiatric evaluation (didn’t know you held that degree until now) were very reasonable and accurate.
But in keeping with the new permissiveness, if you can call the poster “delusional,” — or me just flat “wrong,” — then I guess it’s okay for me to term you arrogant. And please consider that nobody’s questioning your heritage here, just your superior attitude.
Now if I see you retract your personal comments, I’ll do likewise.
Do other team's fans bicker like this?
If Jake and Pep weren’t Panthers, would we bicker about someone else? Or sing cumbaya?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don’t know the words to kumbaya, so I can’t sing it.
I think we would bicker over the offensive style the panthers run can win a Super Bowl or some other inane topic.
At least you know how to spell it
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
He said Smitty *"COULD"* eclipse 2,00 yds.
That is not a prediction as much as it is a declaration of talent.
Other than that, what do you not agree with in Nick’s statement?
1. haven’t you been touting how Pep can do so much more based on his talent? Is he not due for a record-setting year?
2. Do you not think that Williams and Stewart will have another terrific year?
3. Do you not think that the Panther O-line is a beast? AKA, one of the best?
4. Do you not think that Beason is one of the best upcoming players in the NFL?
5. Do you not think that Chris Harris is one of the best SS?
Out of those questions, the only one I find to be unlikely is #5. I would consider Harris to be in the top half or maybe higher, but one of the best to me is a top 3 SS or top 10%.
Will Parker
1. No, he’s not due, because he’s never capitalized on his talent.
2. Sure they can. But they are unlikely to match their combined numbers of a year ago.
3. They’re great, yes, but if any starter goes down with anything other than a short-term injury, we will likely be in trouble.
4. Certainly Beason is a good young star, but when you make a Pro Bowl, you’re not exactly an unknown commodity.
5. I’m probably with you in terms of overall ability. But he did show in ’07 he can have top-five productivity.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
1. So you do not think he can do more based on his talent?
3. We are talking about the starters, not back – ups. Do you think they are one of the best?
4. The question was: Do you think Beason is one of the best UPCOMING players in the league? Not unknown.
Will Parker
1. I think he can, but he won’t.
3. The collective OL group is not among the best. The starters alone, fine.
4. The actual statement was that he was one of the best “upcomings” players in the league, which makes no grammatical sense. Without a better definition of what that actually means, it’s hard for either of us to respond to the statement definitively. I took it to mean a breakout player.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
how does "upcoming" not make sense?
Is he one of the young players in the NFL that is on his way to becoming one of the TOP players in the NFL.
Semantics again… Its really a simple question, that a person as smart as you can easily figure out.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, he can figure it out alright...
Semantics are his bread and butter. He’s just pulling somebody’s chain again.
“Collective OL” — that’s a hot one. Since when do we or anybody else judge a team’s positional strength by the backups?? If we did, The Colts’ QB situation would be dire. Jim Sorgi in if Peyton goes down? Oh, dear.
FYI, this guy is NOT a moderator, and can no longer delete a post he doesn’t like — so he gets his rocks off by constantly acting as if he has the authority of the only expert here, with the only valid opinions — all others are deemed to make “no sense”, or “delusional.”
Good to know he no longer holds that power..
I dont think that is what makes him act so pompous though… he does that in every blog he is a member of. Seems to think he is the knower of all sports(and apparently human choices).
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
His own motto sums him up nicely.
don’t ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Good thoughts bro and welcome to the blog!
It will be nice to have another optimist on here.
Will Parker
Who are you?
Sir greets a lot? ;)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
try sir slurpsalot
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Please explain the story behind that one
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
about my man pep
I honestly loved the guy from the time he first came into the NFL and said he was a freak athelete then my kids and wife who’s not even a football fan she would not even watch the sport until he came into the league my familly we crowd around the tv just to see him play we even drove to charlotte hoping to meet him in person,,unfortunatly he was not there but like i heard a NFL ledgend say (nobody loves you like your mother) meaning the team and the fans who wtched you grow into your success will always have that agape love for you as a player,versus any other team just wants you for what you can produce and soon as your injured your worthless to them so i hope he makes a wise decision to stay home where we love him for the player he is
Welcome to the blog Papa
I’ll be cheering too
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Well said Big Daddy
Some round here don’t exactly know what a Superstar athlete is.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
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