Panther Paw Prints - Steve McNair Edition
by Jaxon on Jul 8, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
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This edition of Paw Prints starts with a couple pertinent articles related to Steve McNair whom I'm sure you have heard was found murdered earlier this week. I could argue McNair was the very first draft blunder in Panther history, meaning the Panthers blundered by trading the #1 pick and selecting Kerry Collins instead of keeping the pick and selecting McNair. The first reference starts with some dialogue that took place between McNair and the Panthers which I had never heard before:
Excerpts: McNair stories from 1995 - CharlotteObserver.com
"They told me they'd like to get a quarterback if they can," McNair said. "They want somebody to build their franchise around. They said they'd be narrowing that list to three in the next week or so. I told them I'm their man."
This next one from Charlotte.com discusses what had might have been if the Panthers had selected McNair.
What if? McNair could have been a Panther - CharlotteObserver.com
If the Panthers had chosen "Air" McNair No.1 in 1995, it's quite possible he would have been the franchise's starter for the next decade. Instead, the Panthers had seven starting QBs during that time.
Rest in Peace Steve, you deserved better.
Continuing on here is a nice piece on the Brinkley brothers, Panther Casper and rookie Viking Jasper.
Training camp separates the Brinkleys | GoGamecocks
"Only thing I tell him is to be positive," Casper said. "Take a deep breath and take things one day at a time. Don’t put too much on your plate." Casper said the biggest adjustment in becoming an NFL player was "staying in the playbook. The hardest part was the playbook and all of the meeting time."
From the 2009 predictions closet we get one doozy and some more Panther disrespect.
Pointless 2009 predictions - CBSSports.com
3) Carolina Panthers - well Jake Delhomme needs his team to run it. Does not matter. The Panthers know that unless they win the superbowl, they will have a new coach after this season, Bill Cowher.
Really? Is that what we know?Hey, one bright side is you can get some really good Vegas odds on the Panthers.
NFL Power Rankings - CBSSports.com
13. Carolina Panthers - Everyone has the Panthers as a top 5 team, I don't see it. Yes there's DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart which everyone thinks is the best rushing game well its actually #4. Delhomme is 34/35 now. Steve Smith is great, Mushy is old. Jarrett is looking better. Lost a couple players in your secondary and Julius Peppers wants out. Your LBs are solid. I still see you as a good team but not an elite team.
Finally we will wrap up with the latest videos involving the Panthers from NFL Network programs:
NFL Videos: 32 in 32: Carolina Panthers
32 in 32: Carolina PanthersNFL Videos: Panthers discussion
Panthers discussion that again gets down on Jake and the Cardinals game.NFL Videos: 2009 Coach Feature: John Fox
2009 Coach Feature: John Fox
Nothing too ground breaking though I was surprised to hear Marshall Faulk say he did not think the Panthers will win the division. I was thinking he had already picked the Panthers to win the division in an earlier program a couple weeks ago. I could just be remembering it wrong.
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I disagree with the power rankings i think we should be in the top ten
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions
RIP Steve
You were a good guy. As intelligent and as good a man as they come.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
a good guy
it seems that certain people get a bye for adultery. He may have been a great teammate and leader on the field and in the community. However, I cannot allow that to cloud my judgment about his adultery. He did not deserve to be murdered, but his wife did not deserve to find out about this affair from the news. I wish he was still alive. I wish every time a man looks at another woman besides his wife, he first thinks about how his children would feel about the a$$ on the side. My children would hurt so bad, regardless of what mommy did. I do not hold men to a higher standard who commit adultery…that includes Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant. (15 NBA Championships between them)
Yes, we always need to think of the consequences before acting
but people always think they won’t be caught. And once you do it once its like opening Pandora’s box. I’m thankful I learned this lesson before getting married.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
That's a societal thing.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but it’s not fair for sweeping statements to be made based on nothing more than your interpretation of biblical law or marital responsibility. Based on what I’d heard, the McNair’s marriage had been on the rocks for some time, and they haven’t even been living together for a few years. In addition, I doubt we’re likely to hear any news on adultery from the other side of the relationships you mentioned, because their spouses aren’t famous players. Tough to make a judgment on a situation without having been involved and knowing all the facts.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Well . . . I have to disagree.
" . . . based on nothing more than your interpretation of biblical law or marital responsibility."
Where does a marriage take place most often? Where did marriage originate? What is the point of making vows and stating them publicly? What is the purpose of marriage versus people just living together? What was the process that the couple went through to get married?
The point is this, if a person does not want to live by the rules or “law”, then do not get married in the first place. This is a free country that allows people to live together, be promiscuous, and generally do what they want. A mature person, and IMO, all people should put more emphasis and thought into what they say. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. That is where the tradition of inviting friends and family to their wedding came from. So that the people close to them can help them remember the promises they made to each other when times in their marriage get hard. Too many people take their word lightly and it shows when they agree to: “Through sickness and in health, richer or poorer, until death do you part?” but really do not mean it.
This just in, breaking news.
Life is hard. Marriage is hard. Shoot, having a roomate is hard. That is the point of marriage and the reason why when you see or are around a good marriage, you want to have a marriage like them. They support each other, nurture each other, grow together, work together, add to one another, etc.
I do agree with you on this:
“Tough to make a judgment on a situation without having been involved and knowing all the facts.” There is only One who knows all the facts and can make the ultimate judgement.
I know this is a Panther blog and the issue of sports is the only thing that should be talked about. I have no problem in keeping my beliefs to myself in this environment, but when I read it from another blogger, then I must respond.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 10, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
In turn, I disagree myself..
Based upon the governmental linkage to issues of marriage and partnership, there are direct disincentives (both financially and socially) for those couples who would prefer not to bear the burden of a legal marriage. These couples have to suffer from issues of property ownership; insurance benefits; adoption, visitation and burden-of-care rights, and others. This is one of the reasons that I think the gay marriage debate is so ridiculous. If it was nothing more than a religious ceremony, than fine, nobody would care. But a “marriage” in society means so much more.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats exactly my point, which is quite sad.
I will be speaking to the points “…governmental linkage to issues of marriage and partnership…” and “But a "marriage" in society means so much more.”
It is interesting how the word marriage needed to be in quotations. Marriage is marriage. The minute the definition changes, then the term changes. Do not allow yourself to be deceived. When the first exception was made then all of a sudden many people everywhere became confused as to what the definition really was. If a hip-hop artist wins a Grammy for a song promoting orgies, drugs, murder, etc and then gives thanks to God, do you really believe him/her? I sure don’t, but some get very confused and they become deceived. Think of the Constitution. Laws were set in place only to have amendment after amendment, until we need a specialist who has been studying one obscure area of one law to then tell us we cannot serve hot coffee to somebody without writing on the cup that they need to be careful to not burn themselves.
After all the clamoring as to who is eligible for marriage, people came up with scenario after scenario, and finally someone caved in and gave an inch, then in fact the real definition to marriage got lost by so many. I want to be one that is not afraid to speak about the reality of what marriage is. I for one submit to the authority of the government, but not without thought to the higher authority.
Hypothetical situation:
Timmy grew up near the woods where he used to run around and climb trees for fun. Then he moves to another city/country and he finds some kids to go and play with. He asks if they want to go climb a certain tree. They look at him and start laughing and ridiculing him b/c they call trees grass and they think it is very funny. Timmy gets confused, frustrated and finally angry and then starts to look at trees and call them grass. Do not let others deceive you.
As for the " . . . couples who would prefer not to bear the burden of a legal marriage." There are many ways to solve the problems which were mentioned and all without degrading another set of people’s beliefs. There are domestic partnerships, power of attorney, and other legal ways around those problems. I want to also say that in no way do I think of a homosexual as any less of a person. We all have issue that separate us from God, yet he still loves us and desires us.
I would like to finish by saying that I know it is hard to read into people’s tones through typed words. With that said, I write everything here in complete respect for all who may read it. I do not consider this to be a heated argument, but rather a serious discussion between mature people with the capacity for rational thought. Thank you for reading and considering my points. God bless.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Procton I'm going to have to go with Will here
Your attitude towards marriage ,specifically the quotes “your interpretation of biblical law” really there is only one right interpretation. The only right interpretation is that marriage is sacred and should not be violated. Any other interpretation is people making their own rules, which always leads to trouble. Like Will said, I am nothing but respectful of your beliefs, however strongly I may disagree.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 11, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
In my opinion, that attitude is just not fair.
That’s one of the prevailing problems I’ve always had with Christianity, the notion that its way is the only way for all people in all times in all situations..
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There are rules in place to protect us.
A 14 year old would not be able to have a license. There are boundaries in place to keep order.
Here is a true story.
- A guy goes to the zoo, gets a bag of food to feed the animals. There are certain animals that are not allowed to be feed by the visitors. This guy approaches a Llama cage and sees a “Do not feed the Llama’s” sign. He looks around and does not see any security. Then he extends his hand to feed the Llama. He looks right at the Llama while it chews up the food. The Llama then pauses, looks the man right in the eyes and spits the food in his face. That sign was to protect him.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
OK...
What’s your point, exactly?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 11, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I did not fully explain myself there.
In response to:
“That’s one of the prevailing problems I’ve always had with Christianity, the notion that its way is the only way for all people in all times in all situations.”
There are reasons why people from all walks of life, all over the world, generally agree on certain moral truths (do not murder, do not steal, etc). That reason is God created us with those moral truths woven into our being. His goodness has appeared to everyone whether or not they chose to see it. Titus 2:11-12
Islamist also believe that there is “only one way” to paradise/heaven. The key difference is that Mohammed only claimed to be a profit, while Jesus claimed to be God. John 18:4-8
Every person has issues/sin (Romans 3:23) that separate us from God and these issues originate inside of us. God gave us the “Law of Moses”, aka the ten commandments, so he can show us the difference between he and ourselves (I am now referencing the previously mentioned rules or boundaries from my former post). Romans 3:20 We fall immeasurably short and no matter how hard we try we cannot attain that standard. The “only way” to reach that standard is to confess, believe and submit fully to the authority of God and allow Him to change us from the inside out. Romans 10:9-13
In summation, God gave us a standard that we can never attain. That standard is directly linked to the " . . . rules in place to protect us." (from my previous post). So in order to reach the aforementioned standard, we must submit to him.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 11, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU must submit to Him.
I’ll make my own decisions and do just fine. And I certainly won’t tell you you’re wrong for choosing to do differently.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 11, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
That is what is important, freedom of choice. Do no persecute someone with a belief different then yours. Beliefs are Opinions, opinions are never facts, religions that state themselves as fact are fundamentally flawed. They are flawed because they create the same violence, bigotry, and evil that they seek to eliminate by forcing two people, with two opinions that they both see as fact, to argue and eventually fight over them.
What is important is to believe in good and ethical truths, if you need a religion to help you find meaning in those truths, then so be it. But, do not judge a good man to be evil, just because he lacks religion.
Now. Back to football.
You are right when you say " . . . what is important is freedom of choice."
I just want to help you make an informed choice. That is my intention and nothing more. If you decide to reject the message, that is up to you and completely your choice.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 13, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
some people don't want help
Some people don’t want to choose at all. Helping them make an informed choice only annoys them. Just because you chose a path, and chose to submit yourself to whatever religion you have chosen, does not mean everyone else has to pick an option and go with it. These kinds of things are not multiple choice questions. Religion and spirituality are different for everyone, and what most people want is the freedom not to be burdened by it or preached to by others.
Christianity, for one, took hold by doing exactly what you’re doing now… preaching. There was a need for it back then. Most of the populace was illiterate, and books had to be scribed by hand, making them only available to the wealthy. The offshoot of this, is that people built churches as a place for the populace to congregate and hear the text, but also the human interpretation of the text, allowing those who were literate to say whatever they wanted, and for the helpless populace to believe them.
In modern society, at least in developed countries, the populations are now literate, and copies of the bible are given away liberally for free, which allows people to read for themselves and decide for themselves, without someone preaching to them. (I would argue that even the text they are reading is not even close to the original text, thanks King James) It is in this modern era, that we finally have the capacity to stop imposing these things on one another.
+1
Proselytization, to me, says that people don’t have the capacity to think and choose on their own. If they seek you out, tell them. If not, why try to drag them in kicking and screaming?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. Who's dragging? I'm typing.
Would you say an athlete lacks " . . . the capacity to think and choose on their own."? They need coaches to teach them techniques, points, tricks, etc. The same can be said of students, we all needed a teacher to show us how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, etc.
I am not seeking you out, I am merely responding.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 14, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't referring to you, specifically...
Just makign a general statement
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
“Some people don’t want to choose at all.” I’m confused, you had typed previously “That is what is important, freedom of choice.”
It seems that you are upset about the fact that I am willing to share what I beleive (preaching). When in fact you are doing the same thing. People get preached to almost everywhere, and most do not even know it. Preaching can come from tv, radio, music, billboards, magazines, casual conversations, etc. I am not mad at you, as a matter of fact, I expect that from people when this issue is raised. In my experience, it was b/c I did not want people to tell me what I was doing (how I lived my life) was wrong. In fact the life style I was living only led me to a unhealthy, dangerous, and destructive path. I suffered in many areas of my life b/c of the choices I was making. I did not see it at the time b/c I did not know of anything different. Once I got around people that actually lived the same way that they were “preaching”, then I was able to see a difference and allowed myself to let my guard down. I am not saying this is anyone other than myself and I am only making a comparison to the way I lived.
Also, I am not persecuting anyone by typing my beliefs on a blog. We are sharing what we believe. So are we both persecuting each other? By the definition, I am not forcing anything on anyone. Again you still have a choice to click on this article, to read what I type, to respond how you respond, and feel how you feel. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
In modern society any literate person can pick up and read anything they can get there hands on. The problem occurs when that person makes an “interpretation” of what they read without context to the original meaning of the author. Hermeneutics is what is lacking and greatly needed in this situation. Furthor, unchecked, this can lead to terrible tragedy. Tragedy’s such as The Jonestown suicides led by Jim Jones or the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, are absolutely unnessecary. Events like this can leave people with a bitter taste in their mouth and give them a reason to stay away. The issue is really the clouding of the truth to make it hard to find what is right. That’s why there are lighthouses, to warn ships of the unseen danger.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 14, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
dont be confused
"Some people don’t want to choose at all." I’m confused, you had typed previously "That is what is important, freedom of choice." bq.
Choosing not to choose is a choice. That is part of the freedom i referenced. I know that sounds like circular logic, but its important. It is like having a “none of the above” response. It is still indeed a choice, but you are free to make it. Sometimes people who have religion wont accept that some people choose not to have it, and then try and guide them into making a decision they do not want to make.
I want to be clear, WillParker81, that I am not accusing you of persecuting anyone, nor am I saying you aren’t entitled to share your experience to those willing to listen. I chose to listen because the topic interests me, and I enjoy a good intellectual discussion where I can get it. You have handled yourself with a candor that is uncommon in what is usually a very emotional topic, and I commend you for that, and thank you for it.
I am purely speaking in generalities. Highlighting some experiences over my lifetime that have turned me off from a lot of the practices in religions. You are surely free to share your experience like I have mine, and it is the readers choice whether to read or not, in this particular forum. But there are still places in the world where religion is imposed against the will of a populace, and my goal or my dream, is to have a world which is not.
Even in our modern world, I walk around campus during fall and spring semester (I work at a university), and occasionally i find a preacher or a strict believer literally yelling at students, accusing them of grave sins, particularly pointing fingers at the homosexual couples and calling them vile sinners. Quite often, the students will engage back, and each time they pose a question the speaker does not like, they “throw the book at them” and hide behind an illogical statement. I’d like to see all of these judgements stop, and see people apply their religion to their own lives, and not the lives of others.
THIS!
Even in our modern world, I walk around campus during fall and spring semester (I work at a university), and occasionally i find a preacher or a strict believer literally yelling at students, accusing them of grave sins, particularly pointing fingers at the homosexual couples and calling them vile sinners. Quite often, the students will engage back, and each time they pose a question the speaker does not like, they "throw the book at them" and hide behind an illogical statement. I’d like to see all of these judgements stop, and see people apply their religion to their own lives, and not the lives of others.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you very much for your compliments.
They are greatly appreciated!
I to enjoy having conversations about this topic. Although most of the time it is spent with people who have the same beliefs that I do. So the change in listener/reader has been quite nice. It has been a challenge to articulate my points as I am not the best of writers nor intellectuals.
I am a graduate of ECU, and yes I went there b/c it was a party school, and there was a similar preacher in our walkway to and from classes. After I became a Christian, I would shudder at the method of his message. I cannot speak with any convction as to what other “preachers” have said, but I have to say that many times (not all) the words that were spoken were correct. However, the method and motive of said actions are questionable. Jesus, the one he was preaching about, never approached a nonbeleiver in such a way. In fact, the only people he ever spoke harshly to were the religious “die hards” of the day, the Pharisees and Sadducees. The “preacher” may have been doing what is right by the letter, but where is his heart?
Here is an example (you may have noticed I like examples):
A person can give a tithe to the church, but that action is actually a sin. In this case, the motives of the heart are impure. They maybe thinking of the other people watching and seeing them give out of pride.
Here is an interesting and short link about biblical interpretation or Biblical exegesis. This is in reference to a previous post about any literate person can read the Bible and interpret for themselves.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Just as I said:
" . . . in order to reach the aforementioned standard, we must submit to him."
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 13, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
In terms of knowing all the facts...
…people close to McNair are apparently indicating too many people are talking about stuff they know nothing about. They’re asking people to back off from the speculation. One thing that has made reports is that McNair’s wife had no indication he was planning to file for divorce. I don’t know what that says about the strength of their ongoing marriage…but clearly, she was quite surprised by what happened and didn’t know her husband was seeing this other girl. They’ve also got 4 children…two by his wife…and the other two from someone else apparently. Regardless, how do you explain to those kids what happened…and why?
RIP Air McNair
R.I.P. to Steve “Air” McNair, whose life was cut to short.
It is unfortunate this dark cloud looms over his head even in death. I would think that for his girlfriend to have shot him, he must have tried to break things off with her so that he could be faithful to his wife. This sounds like the act of a jealous woman that would not allow him to try and make things right with his wife, at any cost. Then again, i don’t know for sure, it just seems to me that 1 year into his NFL retirement Steve would probably have done some self-evaluation and realized it is time to stop messing around and focus on his family. Based on his selfless acts in the community and on the field, it sounds like something he would do.
Breaking news just stated that nashville police have confirmed a murder-suicide in which McNair was asleep on his couch when his girlfriend shot him once in the head, twice in the chest, then again in the head before taking her own life.
That is definitely a crime of passion
She was pissed for sure so I think your theory is pretty plausible.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Hmm....
It does make you wonder what happened between those two before the murder. What was said. Must have been something pretty big to drive someone to such deadly action.
One of those conversations where you wish that you were a fly on the wall.
We’ll never know what happened or what was said. Irregardless, McNair has a family just like every other man. A family whom will mourn for him and miss him. And unlike other people, he has a following of fans that will also remember him for his brilliant play on Sunday.
It’s weird that he’s gone. Very weird indeed. RIP
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Then again, there have also been reports...
That she was just mad she wasn’t his only (or at least top) other woman.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
I’m obviously just speculating in my post above. I just hope, for my conscious, that it was the case.
I want to remember McNair as a great athlete, a portrair of toughness, and a charitable generous man.
That's pretty much how his friends and teammates want you to remember him...
…but, as usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Clearly, McNair was human. And like anyone else, he had his faults. Is anyone surprised by that? In addition, athletes are surrounded by temptation. And, in a society where the sanctity and seriousness of marriage vows have dropped significantly over the past few decades, is it any wonder that McNair might eventually explore relationships outside his marriage? Apparently, now there are reports that he wasn’t just seeing this girl who killed him, but also a stripper from a Minneapolis club he frequented.
Regardless, there’s also a lot of good in McNair’s life. He apparently did a lot to help the underprivileged in the Nashville area. And put some of his own sweat into helping various charities. Anyone who’s come out to talk about him hasn’t had a negative thing to say about him from a personality persepctive. So, despite what he may have chosen to do outside his marriage, he was still a mostly good man…and definitely an excellent football player.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
I can't comment on the whole McNair thing, except it's a horrible and unnecessary tragedy.
But what I do thing about in terms of the what ifs…
Passing:
McNair to Wesley Walls
McNair to Mushin Muhammad
McNair to Steve Smith
All of these are completely fantasy because if McNair happened, the other guys likely would not have. I wonder what Dom Capers thinks? His future and that of George Siefert would have been markedly different. While I’m at it, if Polian would have stayed…
I could do this all night. :-)
Then again...
We could have also drafted K-J Carter and not even had the early success we did.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but...
There is a chance that KiJana Carter might not have been a bust on the Panthers. Certainly had to be better than Biakabatuka. K-J became an NFL bust under very unforunate circumstances if i recall correctly. It was a preseason game for the Bengals, and K-J took a direcy shot to the knee. He tore just about everything there was to tear in there, and was never the same again.
Argument can be made, that had he not been in that preseason game, his knee would have never been traumatized, and he could have been a great running back. HE COULD HAVE BEEN… A CONTENDER!
Biakabutuka certainly had his own share of injuries that hurt his career.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 11, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The Real Tragedy of a "What if McNair had been a Panther"?
The thought hit me that had Steve McNair been drafted by Charlotte instead of Houston/Tennessee he would have become the third former Panther involved in a senseless and tragic murder. Fred Lane was murdered by his wife and Rae Carruth helped kill his girlfriend.
In any case it’s a tragedy for his family. Being a McNair fan I will still admit none of this would have happened had he been faithful to hi wife. God made those rules for a reason, seems people never learn :(
Hopefully this senseless killing will make some others stop and think.
Air McNair was as tough a player and as great a leader as they come, hopefully that is what he will be remembered for, not his tragic mistakes.
If McNair had become a Panther, he may not have been killed at all.
It is realistic to assume that had McNair been drafted by Carolina, he would have had no reason whatsoever to have anything to do with Nashville, which is where this girl lived. Through that logic, they probably would have never met, and this tragic end may not have occurred. That is not to say that another just as tragic one wouldn’t have, but the ties to Nashville would have never been there, and certainly we could rule this one out.
This all of course depends on one’s belief in predestination and/or free will.
I find the web of experiences someone has in their life and their eventual consequences to be very intriguing.
Yes, I've gone down that thought process myself
I had two job offers out of college, one in Ga and one in SC. If I had instead taken the GA job I would most likely have a different wife, kids, friends, etc… the whole nine yards. Hmmm…I probably would not have ended up a Panther fan…okay, enough of that…that is scary!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Not to play wise guy but...
It’s called a second-order counter-factual…
The first “what-if” is if Steve McNair signed with the Panthers (1st order)
The follow-ons are all the subsequent scenarios… (2nd order)
There’s a cool book called “What If”, where this is done with historic battles and other events. I don’t think this has been done with draft choices yet, but interesting to think if Ryan Leaf went to the Colts. :-)
This got me thinking about the details of that trade...
so I looked it up.
The Panthers, however, traded their number one pick to the Cincinnati Bengals for the Bengals’ fifth overall pick and their fourth pick in the second round.2 The Panthers were also stripped of two later supplemental picks, numbers 61 and 191, for improperly recruiting the Pittsburgh Steelers Defensive Coordinator, Dom Capers, as their Head Coach.3
So who did we draft with that extra second round pick from the Bengals? DE Shawn King. I guess we know how that turned out.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
People have been murdered who weren't adulterers; People have been adulterers and not murdered...
So is God just inconsistent like Peppers?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What a question that is...maybe we shouldn't go there? ;P
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Haha...
I guess there’s a reason the big fella gets the REALLY big bucks (figuratively speaking, of course.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ohhh man, I'm going to have to take this question
MP, a common misconception about God is he is up in heaven and he is supposed to sort everything out. Which means the bad get what they deserve and the good get what they deserve. However, God really lets us make our own choices, a consequence of why we are able to love. If we didn’t have free will, we would have no choice about loving God, therefore it wouldn’t really be love. But with free will, we can choose to love God just as much as he loves us. Also, we may see things bad on Earth, but we don’t know everything, God does, and he knows exactly how it will work out. A wonderful thing is that something as despicable as 9/11 can draw a struggling couple closer together when they realize what they have and what they almost lost. To borrow from Neil, just my two cents, and hopefully this wasn’t to much religion for the blog. ; D Although religion could be a whole different post…….
by Flowing Willow on Jul 11, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It's interesting...
…that religion has taken on a much deeper discussion here than normal. Thankfully, it hasn’t gone all incendiary. That’s a good thing. :-)
All I was responding to was this quote:
God made those rules for a reason, seems people never learn
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 11, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankly...
I don’t think it’s fair to anybody involved to play the hindsight game. Collins was more successful sooner, and was everything this franchise could have asked for on the field. Yes, he turned out to be a dick, but one wonders whether McNair could have been as successful as Collins if thrust into a prominent role immediately instead of the two years worth of sitting and learning he got to do.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Iloved the way McNair played the game
I will never forget the flack jacket he would wear to protect those bum ribs but you couldn’t pull the guy out of the game with a 4X4. Just a wonderful example of leaving it all on the field.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Yes.
The way he was able to play for all those years with no practice was pretty remarkable.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
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