Mike Vick is back, but we know he won't be in Carolina...thoughts?
by usana_gaines on Jul 27, 2009 4:57 PM EDT
134 comments
NEW YORK — Michael Vick was reinstated by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday and could play in regular-season games as early as October.
Vick can immediately participate in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games — if he can find a team that will sign him. A number of teams have already said they would not.
"Needless to say, your margin for error is extremely limited," Goodell said in a letter to Vick. "I urge you to take full advantage of the resources available to support you and to dedicate yourself to rebuilding your life and your career. If you do this, the NFL will support you."
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Don't really care
I don’t like Michael Vick. Never have and never will. And my hate goes back way before the criminal activities. He probably deserves a second chance but as long as it isn’t with Carolina (which it won’t be) it doesn’t matter much to me.
by R-F on Jul 27, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He will not play in the NFL this year. He isn’t conditioned, and still needs to learna new playbook. Not to mention is a below average QB.
But like R-F said, I don’t really care.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
by Ivan459 on Jul 27, 2009 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
San Fran
I dont think it is really a safe assumption to say that Vick will not be able to get in football shape by October. The guy is a freak.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 28, 2009 12:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A freak...
who’s had access to nothing but the most rudimentary strength and conditioning equipment for the past few years.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be true… may not be accurate or tell the whole story either. I am sure he was allowed some sort of physical workouts in prison… I am sure he was allowed to work out while on house arrest…
Have you seen pictures of the guy since he has been released? Sure he does not look like he is in game shape- but he does not look like he is puny either. I have no doubts he has been working out like crazy- and will continue too. If a team gives him a chance and he gets into a camp, I could see him being in game shape by October. He may not be ready for the speed of the game as a QB… but that is a different story.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he WAS conditioned… I said I do not think it is safe to assume he can not be in condition by October.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 28, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know...
I was just making the counter-point that he probably lost a lot of his overall strength and conditioning base. I don’t doubt that he was probably able to stay bulked up, but the absurd agility and acceleration he used to possess will be very slow to return (if they even ever do.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agility will be his major huddle. Speed is more natural. I think its an obstacle that he can overcome with less resistance. Of course that is all opinion…
Like I have said many times before- only time will tell. Maybe I should use that as my sig? Hahaha
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 28, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the real issue
The real issue is his ability to win over teammates and prove he can throw the ball more accurately, and play with more desire. He may have told anything to Goodell, but when he gets on the practice field, if he’s only a 50% passer, he might not get to play anyway.
by usana_gaines on Jul 28, 2009 4:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he is not picked up before the beginning of the season...
I can see some team that is struggling through the first 4 to 6 games taking a chance with him. I hope not though.
by hokies07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that myself...
If you’re struggling already, why would you take the headaches? I think it’ll be a better team that has a clear plan and views him as a piece that might put them over the top.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you're struggling and already have headaches, so what do you have to lose.
A team that “views him as a piece that might put them over the top” would get him before the season.
by hokies07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily.
Look at it like the Roger Clemens half-year signing of a few years back. You know he’s not going to play for you early anyway, so supervise him getting in shape and prepare to unleash him down the stretch and in the playoffs. (Although I don’t believe he has that kind of performance in him, to be honest.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor has it...
That Vick was spotted wandering around Washington, DC last night and at the Redskins stadium. If there is anyone crazy enough to sign him it’s the redskins. They really don’t trust Jason Campbell do they?
by Tater596 on Jul 28, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
teams have QBs
It seems to me that most teams won’t take him because they’re already in a committed relationship. Most teams in the league have already named their starter. I think there are teams that want to take a shot with Vick, but they can’t take a chance at alienating the current QB on a guy that hasn’t played in two years. Take the Bucs for example. They might really want VIck, but can they really bring him in without alienating Freeman (and the money they paid him). It’s hard to think of teams that are not already committed to a QB, even if it’s possible that Vick could win more games than who they have. Think about who you’d rather have at QB on day one, Vick or Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Schaub, Russell, Shaun Hill, Hasslebeck, Quin or Anderson. None of these guys have proven they will definitely be better than Vick in the last half of the season, but they’ve done enough that bringing in Vick might ruin them, and VIck still might play poorly. It’s not worth the risk, except maybe for the Vikings, Redskins or 49ers. I mean, you think the transition from college ball to NFL is hard, what about jailball to the NFL. Regardless of the potential for a PR nightmare, Vick might com ein and stink it up, and make your other QBs pull a Jay Cutler.
by usana_gaines on Jul 30, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he does get signed, it will be as a back-up.
And for the reasons that you mentioned (alienating current QB’s on the roster) it would most likely be for a team with a solid #1 QB, team, and maybe even fan base. That way there would not be any misconception as to “who is THE guy”. Mortenson mentioned the Steelers b/c of the connections (Tomlin/Dungy – Vick’s mentor and former “slash” QB’s – Kordell and Randle El) the solid #1 QB (Roethlisberger) and strong fan base. The Steelers fans would not turn their backs on the team. Mort did not hear this as a rumor, he just mentioned it b/c it made a lot of sense. It does to me. What do you all think?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 30, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does make a lot of sense and would probably be the best thing for Vick and the NFL. Only time will tell how it all plays out.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dungy
but why does dungy care at all? i wonder why he’s the new vick mentor and taking responsibility. what about his own family? he lost one son in part due to his frequent absence due to football. now he wants to be vick’s surogate football father? it doesn’t make sense to me. i think he thinks vick could be the next big thing, and he’s just along for the ride. vick is a grown ass man, and he needs to figure out himself. if he needs dungy to coach him, then he will never succeed. i mean, we all saw jake in the playoff loss to the cards. he didn’t go out and get a new football mentor. he decided to man up and get back to work.
by usana_gaines on Aug 2, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dungy cares and wants to help a "grown ass man" who maybe never had a mature, responsible father figure to show him "how it's don".
“if he needs dungy to coach him, then he will never succeed.”
Really? Everybody needs some help sometime. Why would Vick be any different?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 2, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dungy is known for this kind of thing.
He’s not out to ride Vick’s coattails. He’s a very spiritual man who believes in second chances, mentoring, and helping all of his players be the best they can be, both as athletes and people.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Tony Dungy is a hall of fame coach and person.
by Tater596 on Aug 3, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't go that far.
His statements and position against homosexuals upset me.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People are entitled to their opinion, haven't we already addressed that.
Besides, what does that have to do with him being in the HOF? He had some record breaking seasons with the Colts and he also built a perennial loser (TB) into a Super Bowl team, which Gruden piggy backed.
Just curious, what statements has he made about homosexuals? Any links to reference?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 3, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hall of Fame people don't discriminate.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Hall of Fame player, no doubt. Person? Not so much.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious, what statements has he made about homosexuals? Any links to reference?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 4, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4502-tony-dungy-on-homosexuality-bigotry-is-bigotry
In front of a crowd of 700 at the Indiana Family Institute (IFI)’s banquet, the Indianapolis Colts coach agreed with IFI’s position of defining a marriage as being between a man and a woman.
"I appreciate the stance they’re taking," he said, according to the Indianapolis Star, "and I embrace that stance."
During his speech, the night’s honoree said he was not ashamed to be at the event.
"IFI is saying what the Lord says," explained Dungy, according to USA Today. "You can take that and make your decision on which way you want to be. I’m on the Lord’s side."
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD!!!
That is SOOO awful!!
what a joke…
He said nothing derogatory about homosexuals at all. He stated his beliefs and his faith. That is all.
Way to make a mountain out of a mole hill, MP.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hardly anything derogatory.
Without getting into the debate of gay marriage and civil unions blah blah blah, I do not exactly see Tony Dungy gay bashing anyone here.
I stand by my original statement. Tony Dungy is a hall of fame coach and person.
by Tater596 on Aug 5, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is a man with the values of Dungy really any less of a man if he answers a question that questions his beliefs and his faith with an honest answer?
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 4, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Bigotry is unattractive, no matter what the excuse.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess all Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus who feel the same as him about homosexuality(voicing it or not) are bigots then?
If so, your claiming that over 80% of the WORLDS POPULATION are bigots… that sir is pretty arrogant and can be seen as a form of bigotry all on its own.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 4, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can appreciate all people for their choices.
But not if that choice includes discrimination. Oh, and by the way, please don’t lump Jews in with that crowd. We’re above that silly damnation fray.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bigoted – blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others.
That sounds a LOT like the way you act around here at times. While I have come to put that aside at times… it is no secret that your intolerance for others opinions and thoughts can be quite cumbersome to a portion of the CatScratch community.
You claim to “appreciate ALL people for their choices”, yet you look down upon Dungy for his.
The Torah preaches against homosexuality, just as the Bible and Quran. In the Torah it is stated as a sin that is punishable by death.
While my comments here may not paint the true picture of my views on the LGBT community, I think your intolerance for Dungys views are just as wrong as his.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 4, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Jewish scripture does not accept homosexuality.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 4, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will not make any more posts in this regard. I just read later that it is finished and I will leave it at that.
Go Panthers!!
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Aug 4, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be talking about 10-15% of the Jewish orthodox community.
The majority of us hav egrown up and learned to deal with issues that matters.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could also say that the percentage of Christians
that feel as it is a sin could be close to 20-30%.
But I believe what WillParker said was that “Jewish scripture does not accept homosexuality”, which is what I pointed out above. That has nothing to do with the stat that you pulled out of your rear-end.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what dungy said was hardly bigotry
He is just against gay marriage. how is that being a bigot?
by Tater596 on Aug 5, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's infringing upon the civil rights of others for an arbitrary reason.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Civil right and rights to marriage
My stance on marriage issues, to be clear, is that the state should stay out of it. What do they care if it is a man and a woman sharing a tax burden or a man/man woman/woman? They get the money either way.
The problem for a lot of people, particularly the religious, is the word “marriage” which is usually viewed in a religious sense. All states should allow for civil unions for gay couples who wish to share a tax burden the same way heterosexual couples do. Having the government define “marriage” is an over-reaching of powers, but hey in the USA, that is par for the course eh?
Regardless, Dungy is not bringing harm onto anyone here by expressing his beliefs, and I again stand by my original statement that he is a hall of fame coach and person.
by Tater596 on Aug 5, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, enough talk on religion!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Aug 7, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, that's your opinion, I'm with the other 80% of the worlds population
If we acknowledge that God created the universe, we acknowledge he created us the way we are. Not to get into too much detail, this is a sports blog after all, but the way we are made discourages homosexuality. Now I will not shun a person because of that, but I will suggest they get psychological help.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 4, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Football, guys...
This can get real ugly real quick….
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Aug 4, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
There was a discussion about abortion in another Vick thread too.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 4, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd suggest somebody get psychological help...
If they look down on a group of people because of the supposed existence of a mythical deity.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, one more thing then I'll stop
Supposed existence, you’re a Jew man, God’s chosen. If you do not believe in God, you can’t be a Jew, it’s as simple as that. Also, I never said I looked down on gay people, I said that they have a condition which is no different than someone who is mentally ill, they have a hormonal imbalance that causes them to be attracted to people of the same gender. It’s treatable with therapy and drugs. I say again, I do not look down on gay people.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 5, 2009 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No discussions on religion or politics guys...please
Its in my code of conduct for the site
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Aug 4, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one that's never enforced?
Cool.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it has been broken, it has been broken by you just as much as it has by others.
I really do enjoy this blog and would probably join in discussions more, but feel as though I will be attacked and treated sub-human by you. Many other people here disagree with me, but no one else has ever been obtuse about it. You may bring a lot to this blog, but you also drive a lot of decent conversation and readers away.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's their prerogative.
If people are offended that I don’t sit by and allow them to spew nonsense and inaccuracies, they can go somewhere else.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your a joke.
And I will do fine to just stay right here. I just hope Jaxon does not mind putting up with this for a long time to come, because until you get a grip on your tone and your superiority complex I have a feeling nothing else is going to change.
You do not know everything about everything. When people state their opinions, there is room for inaccuracies(as they are opinions and not facts).
I have very little “nonsense” spewn from anyone around here. Most of the community seems to be well educated and informed. We may not all be google whores like you… we all seem to know enough to have a decent conversation without belittling each other, aside from you.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I don’t sit by and allow them"
Who are you to “allow” anyone anything?!
Your just some other guy sitting at a keyboard…
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok.
posted the above before I got to this.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 5, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vick deserves a second chance...
…but it won’t be with Carolina. He’s paid his dues. And I don’t think he’ll lose his athleticism just for being out of the game for a bit. He can certainly help some teams. The question is which ones are desperate enough to put up with the media circus and protestors that’ll come along with him? Because of that, it won’t be the Panthers.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Jul 28, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha...he's been more than out of the game...
He’s also two+ years older. Vick was never going to be the kind of QB that aged gracefully (given he, umm, can’t pass), but I don’t see this aiding him at all.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Every team should be after an aging, dog-killing, out of the league quarterback who has a career passer rating of 75. Am I right?
by R-F on Jul 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wildcat=SEXY!
Duh.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MP, I know your stance on this, and wanted to echo your sarcasm.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 29, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet UK...
Appreciates all the free advertising.
by Tater596 on Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kentucky Wildcats...
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Jul 30, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got it.
Although one could suggest Arizona feels the same way?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Wildcats is the most popular mascot in American sports on all levels)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
^^ did not know that.
Learning something new everyday.
by Tater596 on Jul 30, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vick will play in the NFL this year...
Cris Carter said it best. He’s not the 65th best QB out there, he’ll be signed…
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Jul 30, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
If I’m a betting man, I put money on two teams…
Minnesota Vikings
or
New England Patriots
by Tater596 on Jul 30, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put more money on San Fran
A run based off with a new stud wideout for the home run, and Vick cannot be any worse that the two QBs they have there now..
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Jul 30, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he could...
Shaun Hill: 90.5 career QB rating
Michael Vick: 75.7
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt many def coaches in league are worried about Hill
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Jul 30, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the Steelers?
For the reasons that usana gaines mentioned (alienating current QB’s on the roster) Vick would most likely be signed for a someone with a solid #1 QB, team, and maybe even fan base. That way there would not be any misconception as to "who is THE guy".
Mortenson mentioned the Steelers b/c of the connections (Tomlin/Dungy – Vick’s mentor) (former "slash" QB’s – Kordell and Randle El) the solid #1 QB (Roethlisberger) and strong fan base. The Steelers fans would not turn their backs on the team. Mort did not hear this as a rumor, he just mentioned it b/c it made a lot of sense. It does to me. What do you all think?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 30, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is feasible.
They don’t really have a threat at backup QB, as well as the other reasons mentioned.
Problem though, is that the Steelers have long been considered a class act when it comes to organizational integrity and prestige. I tend to lump them in with teams like the Panthers, where a character guy is more valuable. Sure, some Steelers have been in trouble in the past, but not like on some other teams. The most recent Steeler infraction I can think of is Santonio Holmes getting caught with a joint.
by Tater596 on Jul 30, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They did sign Najeh Davenpoop.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
coming from a 9ers fan.
Stats do not tell the whole story.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right...
I’m just saying that Shaun Hill has shown the capacity to be an efficient QB as a passer, something Vick never did.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It didn't seem like they were too worried about Vick by the end, either...
15-16 as a starter his last two years (including 1-3 against Carolina.) Or have you purged those memories? :P
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope...but Ryan is making the pain go away...
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Aug 1, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attempts- Vick- 1,730 Hill- 235
Yards- 11,505 Hill-2,547
Touchdowns(passing)- Vick-75 Hill- 18
Touchdowns(rushing)- Vick-21 Hill-3
Longest Pass- Vick-74 Hill-48
I’ll let you put up the fumbles and ints and all that stuff since stats are your thing…
Phillip Rivers also had the best QB rating in the NFL last year… does that make him the best QB in the NFL? I doubt it…
This is coming from a NCSU fan…
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers will be the best soon
he and Rodgers/Romo/Ryan/Roethlisberger are the next great elite QB’s.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 31, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way.
Romo is terrible, particularly when it’s a game that matter.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Career totals really don’t do much for me when Hill has only gotten the chance to start for two seasons. Let’s look at their prorated 16-game averages:
Hill: 313-489 (64%), 3396 yds (6.9 YPA), 24 TDs, 12 INTs, 39 sacks, 169 rushing yds, 4 rushing TDs, 15 fumbles (that’s ugly.)
Vick: 201-374 (54%), 2488 yds. (6.6 YPA), 15 TDs, 11 INTs, 40 sacks, 834 rushing yds, 5 rushing TDs, 12 fumbles
At worst, they’re comparable overall, but Hill has more total yards and TDs.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then again they came into the NFL roughly the same time… and Vick got an immediate chance…
I will agree with you ALL DAY that Shaun Hill is the more consistent PASSER, and by that logic SHOULD be the better QB. However to say that Vick is worse then Hill is a bit of a reach. He may not be the passer everyone would want out of a QB… but he can get things done on the field. The 9ers would already have Hill locked in for the starting spot(barring injury) by the time Vick could play, but they could def use Vick as a “wildcat”(yeah… I am getting sick of that term) qb/rb/wr. God knows they need help at the WR position…
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
One was the #1 pick. The other went undrafted. Which of those usually gets the immediate chance (and, by the way, Vick only got two starts that first year…Reeves at least tried.)
As to the notion of “getting things done on the field,” I think DCs were starting to figure him out, at least to the degree that he wasn’t winning games. The Falcons were under .500 his last two years there.
As a Niners guy, do you really think Hill is that certain to beat Alex Smith? Last I checked, the FO over there was praying Smith would win the job.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who is the better QB? One was drafted #1 OVERALL and one NOT AT ALL… Just like you said…
DC may have figured him out… but he is likely to come back a different player used in a different role anyhow.
I really think Alex Smith will win the job, but it will be taken away from him(either by coaches or injury) by week 8.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
That no matter who wins between Hill and Smith (and possibly Vick)….
all 49ers fans still lose.
It’s like winning the special olympics.
by Tater596 on Jul 31, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha…
you might be right.
But there is at least some home in Vick… That is the sad part about it.
I think the 9ers are better this year… but still not good enough to even sniff the playoffs.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 1, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hill vs vick
hill cannot compare to vick. hill is a system guy who has a weak arm. he can manage a game and win the way dilfer did for a while. if the rest of the team is good enough, that works. but if you’re looking for a playmaker with speed and an explosive arm, vick is clearly better for those reasons. but coaching vick is like teaching a pit bull to nibble. i think i would rather coach shaun hill and get the most out of him, and then draft a tebow, mccoy, or the heisman winner. vick has great potential, but potential without progress is garbage. we’ll see. i say he ends up in washington cuz snyder has been looking for a QB for a while, and campbell is alienated and discouraged. if snyder had his way, he would have favre, cutler, sanchez and vick on the roster.
by usana_gaines on Aug 2, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
If by Vick’s “explosive” arm you mean the ball is liable to fly most anywhere.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Including 60 yards downfield
Just saying.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the opposite side of the field of his receiver.
Remember how Kyle Boller could hit the uprights from his knees at the 50?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boller
i forgot what they called that trick where you hit the upright or throw through the upright from your knees from the 50. Jim Drunckenmiller did that, so the 49ers drafted him, even though Bill Walsh wanted them to draft Jake Plummer. How do you not listen to Bill Walsh?
by usana_gaines on Aug 6, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
explosive
i said explosive, not accurate. he can be very accurate if he practices, but it seems he spent his offseasons involved in something else. i don’t know how well some of these guys threw the ball coming out of college compared to vick, but they have been practicing. i don’t mean during the season practicing. i mean offseason, and after hours, and when no one else is doing it. vick was never that dedicated, and it showed.
by usana_gaines on Aug 6, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This just in
Michael Vick is going to Seattle to play with his old coach. Hasn’t been signed yet, but discussions are underway. Mora wants to prove to his Dad that Vick didn’t ruin his career and was a good choice, and Vick’s supporters want him as remote as possible. Keep your ears open, it will go down in the next couple days.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 31, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Based on what?
There has been no credible source to publish this rumor. Also, Mora didn’t draft Vick. Dan Reeves was the head coach and Mora was in San Fran.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you implying I'm not credible?
No, I heard this on WFNZ. But Mora Sr has called Vick a coach killer. Bringing Vick to his second chance shows a lot of faith in the guy! You don’t even consider unless you think Vick was great asset then and in the future.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 31, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH!
WFNZ! They’re breaking shit left and right nowadays, huh?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naw, they got about the same track record as you
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 31, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen you stating my speculation as fact many places.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 1, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon now... I gotta fight back occasionally, right?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 1, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Seattle prospect is not firm as of 7:30am 8/1
I read they were “considering” Michael Vick and also that Brett Favre was “considering” the Vikes. We all know how that turned out.
The people who have posted here about Michael VIck’s football shape are right. Jamal Lewis did less time and came back football mush. Took him a year to recover and even then he’d faded off after so much missed time.
by Barbados on Aug 1, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Lewis was certainly better at his position than Vick at his.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 1, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys saying you don't even think that they've had discussions?
Because that’s all I said had happened.
And I don’t understand the whole Vick was not a good QB. He was a below average passer, but far above average rusher. And that made him dangerous.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 1, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not all you said had happened.
This just in
Michael Vick is going to Seattle to play with his old coach.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 2, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah…and YOUR a scout now?
??
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 2, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 2, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And who gave a shit about dangerous.
15-17 his last two years. 1-3 against us.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 2, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revenge is a powerful motivator
Just saying, Vick will come in with something to prove, against the entire league. We can’t underestimate him.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 2, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know who else had "something to prove?"
Favre. And he sucked.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 2, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
favre
favre played great until he got hurt. you can’t hate on him. look at his stats before and after the injury.
as far as vick goes, well i could see him in seattle for one reason, he would sell out the stadium of any team he goes to, except he won’t have a shot at beating out hasslebeck for the starting job. if he could learn from matt, though, maybe he’ll be a decent passer, too.
by usana_gaines on Aug 2, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What usana said
Favre was doing good until he hurt his arm, Vick has the talent, all he needs is the motivation and he’s got that now.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 3, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was hurt that badly...
Why did he keep playing? Also, Seattle has no problem selling out. One of the best stadium atmospheres in football.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12:30 am ET on August 4th, 2009
On NFL Live Wiley and Golic were both making a case for Carolina being a good fit for Vick. It made a lot of sense. I am currently try to find the some type of video or whatnot but if you see NFL Live on watch it. Carolina is 1 of 9 teams currently not denying any attempt of trying to get Vick. This should be interesting.
by GMallory on Aug 4, 2009 1:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
are they not denying it because they have no been asked, or just avoiding the question?
I too see it as a good fit, when you look at the style of play and such.. but not when it comes to financially or front office wise.
If you do find a link or vid of some sort, I would like to know the list of the 9 teams. Thanks in advance if so..
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 4, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Avoiding the question, Fox style.
An article from Gantt on the matter.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And here's your No Vick list:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/28/the-anti-vick-list/
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An article on NBC sports recently listed us as a fit, too.
They said teams in the south would generally have fanbases more willing to forgive him for the dogfighting. Further, they mentioned “concerns at QB.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with Gantt
One, it’s a classic Fox answer.
Two, no motivation for a player who we might play and who has a history of giving us problems.
And Three, if we have another Russian Roulette at QB, Vick is the best one on the market. Of course, Delhomme, McCown and Moore would all have to go down for that to happen.
by Flowing Willow on Aug 4, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Do you honestly think Vick could step in as an every-down QB and show anything short of a disaster?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 4, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do...
As long as it’s in CAR. Sign that man!
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Aug 4, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nag...Do you torment the Bucs and Saints blog as much as us? ;)
or are we just the lucky one?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Aug 4, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think of CAR as my favorite rivalry...
A little cajoling, nothing too out of the way. Lots of CAR fans are old ATL fans, it’s like picking on your little brother. Y’all are good people, it’s fun to talk football with ya…..
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
by NaGaNole on Aug 4, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do like picking on my little brother
Though soon he’s going to pick back. ; )
by Flowing Willow on Aug 5, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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