Panthers Training Camp Musings: Saturday Night Edition

by Jaxon on Jul 25, 2009 9:57 PM EDT

I'm just going to say it right off the bat, I've been in the sun all day, drank a few cold ones, its Saturday night, and now I'm chilling in the A/C (it had to be a 100 today) and I feel like writing a little diddy (just in case you read this post and go "What is up with Jaxon?") It's BWB. ‘Blogging while buzzed'. It's not illegal as far as know so...damn I can't wait for training camp. I'm having a problem deciding which days to go. I want to go to Fanfest but that is the day we drop off my oldest child and Daughter at college. Hard to bail out on that one, but ...

I'm hoping to squeeze in at least two, two day trips up to Wofford before camp breaks. A two day set is nice because then you get a feel for how the staff rotates the drills from one day to the next, from morning to afternoon. It's hard coming training a a single person because of the break outs. You have to set priorities, last year it was the O-line. I'm thinking its D-line and secondary this year. I also hope they start the live drills early and bring the wood. They don;t so it every practice but damn...I'm always hoping to see it!

I continue to be surprised how the pundits mis-grade the Panthers using off the field stuff as their justification:

2. Panthers (8-8): Questions about Jake Delhomme, combined with the Julius Peppers contract situation, just make you wonder too much to pick Carolina.

Why couldn't some one instead say this, which I find just as valid::

The Panthers return 21 of 22 starters with the new starter being 4th year CB Richard Marshall; meaning they won't have to waste time getting to know anyone. More importantly a 12-5 season will bring confidence to this team and the thud of an end could provide the motivation to make noice against one of the Top 3 toughest schedules in the NFL. If this team just makes it to the post-season; even as a wildcard watch out, they could make some noise.

That's about as pessimictic as I can get.

I don't expect Pep to have any more of a detrimental demeanor than last season since he has wanted to leave since last summer. He played 2008 like that and posted a career record number of sacks. He should be even more motivated this year (I hope). I still like Pep and want him on the team, but I do give some credence to the notion that come th big game he may just not have the love of Carolina anymore to bring that special gear we know he has when it matters most. I hope he proves my notions wrong.

I fully expect rookie FB Tony Fiammetta to make the roster. If you wonder whether he might ride the pine in '09 I hope instead they pair him up with RB Jonathan Stewart, similar to the way a back-up catcher may rotate with a pitcher. A platoon like this would take a little off Brad Hoover and extend his career hopefully. Williams and Hoover; Stewart and Fiammetta. I likey.

Which makes me think about one-back sets. Who will be better in the one-back set this year, Williams or Stewart? I'm thinking they are both going to be deadly! 5 YPC for both this season?

Do you think the Panthers will pass the ball to a back coming out of the backfield more this year? Both Williams and Stewart have capable hands. Now we add Fiammetta possibly and of course Goodson. The conservative Fox though prefers the lower risk direct hand-off. Average 5 YPC and who gives a crap?

Don't under estimate the impact of the tougher schedule this year. We went 4-0 against the AFC West this season. I'm not expecting a repeat against the AFC East. I'd be estatic with 3-1. but 2-2 might be more likely. No 3-1, the Bills and Jets are both beatable and the Dolphins offense does not scare me.

Early in camp I always like to see who shows up in shape and who withers in the Carolina sun. It tells you a lot about off-season dedication to a degree, but give the sun and humidity its credit. It's a hard thing to prepare for, sweating your ass off in 90+ weather and 100% humidity. The Wofford training site doesn't help either, the bowl seems to block the breeze. Bring the sunscreen.

Attention span gone and the ‘Ole Lady is acting amorous. 'nuff said!

Go Panthers

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Comments

As much as I like Double Trouble

I feel like it’s only a matter of time when one of the backs will complain about their production. Not that this will be like the break up of Smash and Dash (LenWhale White and Chris Johnson), but it’s hard to say that both backs will be satisfied in a long run. I mean Williams and Stewart are both great guys and they will never cause trouble like the Dumb and Dumber, but splitting carries will definitely cause some issues in the long run. I keep hearing that Fox will give Stewart more carries than Williams next season, but not sure.

I don’t know, but I doubt that we’ll be able to keep both the first round backs for too long.

by Shockers on Jul 25, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions

I could see the Panthers using Stewart more as a somewhat power back to wear the DL down and put Dwill in to break the big run.

Both can break the big run… we have seen that. But Stewart should get more carries this season IMO.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 26, 2009 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Disagree

Williams proved last season that he can be a premiere back when given the opportunity. It took him a couple years, but he’s now just hitting his stride. Why move him to number 2???? He just had the best season from a Panther RB ever!

Williams has more explosiveness and big play ability than Stewart does and showed last season that he can bounce off of tackles and keep moving down the field. Oh yeah, did I mention that he had ZERO fumbles.

by pancanbra on Jul 26, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I didnt say move him to #2, but I do think that Stewart can wear down an Oline better- which will allow Williams to come in a make his big plays.

I think Stewart will get just a few more snaps then DWill… or relatively the same amount. They will both have similar yards and similar amount TDs. They will just get them in different ways.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 26, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

total touches

i could see stewart getting more carries if d-will catches more passes. stewart can run the ball more often, but if he gets 260 carries to D-will’s 200, but D-will gets 70 receptions, that could spell disaster for a lot of teams. maybe they line up together in the backfield, and then one of them goes in motion into the slot as a 3rd receiver. A LB is left to try to cover him, and another LB is left alone hoping he doesn’t have to handle the run on his own.

by usana_gaines on Jul 27, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

I see us using Goodson in that way.

DeAngelo has not had an exceptional amount of time as a receiver. At Memphis as a junior and senior he caught 30 passes COMBINED compared to 623 rushing attempts. In his Panther career he has 78 receptions in his 3 years or a 26 rec average. He is talented and is a threat as a receiver out of the backfield, but he is not a reggie bush. In case it needs to be said, that is a good thing. Goodson 36 and 37 receptions his last two years respectively at TAMU.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Jul 27, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

To be honest, I don't think that they'll worry too much.

They both seem to have a great relationship with each other. As long as we’re winning in Caroline, they both seem like the kind of guys to enjoy not being on the field 100% of the snaps. And it’s not like Stewart is never getting the ball. He’ll always get the nod near the goal line, and with another year of experience he should probably break the 200 snap marker.

One thing I would be worrying about is giving Williams a decent raise in 2010. He’s definitely earned it. Right now he’s making 750K a year.

Crap I hope he doesn’t read our blogs. Lol

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 25, 2009 11:49 PM EDT reply actions

Just kidding :p

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 25, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Shockers, are you crazy?

Have you not read any of the articles posted about Double Trouble? Not only did they become fast friends but with the way they communicate on the sidline as well as off the field. I don’t see how anyone can think that either one of them would complain. You can’t take the whole Smash and Dash situation and compare it to Double Trouble. Chris Johnson was a cocky stuck up at ECU and Lendale doesn’t have a backbone because he was stuck behind Reggie Bush at USC so he never had to compete (or never got the chance) for the starting job. Both Stewart and Williams no what it feels like to be stuck behind someone else and both of them know what it feels like to be the starter. I don’t see any problems for years to come. And Yes D. Will does need a better contract.

by armywarrenL on Jul 26, 2009 5:13 AM EDT reply actions

the future

I agree with you. I also think that they both can go for over 1,000 yards and 10 TDs every year. But D-Will will consistently be a little more productive, and he’ll get more carries. Over 5 ypc for the duration of his career, 20 TDs and no fumbles. He’s unbelievable and is one of the top 2 backs in the league (with AP)

by usana_gaines on Jul 26, 2009 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions

"Not that this will be like the break up of Smash and Dash"

I know where you coming from, but I’m saying that despite the great relationship they have right now, if splitting carries happens to keep either one of the production, one may find a better opportunity in a team that needs him. This has nothing to do with their relationship, but if one of them feels confined of the number of carries, this could happen. Like what packpigskinfan25 said, we could have a successful year and everyone’s happy. But I haven’t seen great duos like Dwill and Stew stay in the same team for too long. Take a look at the Chargers and the Giants.

Again, this is not the question of their attitudes. I know they’re good friends, and they’re great guys. One way or another, we simply can not afford both of them in a long run if they continue to be great, and if they’re not one may move to another team. That’s all I’m saying. And giving either one of them more carries could be the sign of who they might want in the long run.

by Shockers on Jul 26, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions

D-Will

I think D-Will is going to be our #1 for the next 8-10 years, and J-Stew is gone at the end of his contract. If you noticed last year, D-Will was also running people over, and scoring from short yardage by hitting people…just ask the Packers.

We need more outlets for Jake. Jake would have an overall higher rating and completion percentage if he had some outlets like a TE in the flat or D-Will/J-Stew in the flat. D-WIll getting the outlet and picking up 3 yards is better than an incomplete or an interception. One thing to think about, though, is if we’re giving up a blocker for the outlet?

As for the season coming up, it’s the NFC East that always gives us problems, specifically the Eagles. I think we’ll go undefeated against the AFC East. Very few teams are able to handle our running attack, regardless of who their QB is.

by usana_gaines on Jul 26, 2009 5:15 AM EDT reply actions

Seriously?

Yeah D-Will can knock you to the ground but nothing like J-Stew. I mean you can ask the bucs ( Rhonde Barber) how it feels to be stiff armed by J-Stew. He put Rhonde flat on his back and Barber even had him wrapped up. Stew will stay longer than his contract and they will both see 1,000 and 10 TD’s for years to come as long as the O-line stays big and healthy.

by armywarrenL on Jul 26, 2009 5:32 AM EDT reply actions

This year

we couldn’t afford to save our long snapper, and cut Lucas as well. If they both see 1000+ yards, I doubt we’ll be able to afford both of them. Like what Rev said,soon we’ll have to pay DeAngelo for what he’s worth, and financially this could be a problem.

by Shockers on Jul 26, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions

It won't be that much of a problem if we resign Peppers.

If we can get Peppers on a nice long contract, we’d be able to afford Williams and we’d be set for the foreseeable future. Right now our main concerns for the next offseason are addressing our O-Line and taking care of our backs and JP. If JP proves to be annoying, he should sign his tag so we can trade him next year.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 26, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Resigning Pampers

is going to be tough. Hopefully we wont have to deal with another Peppers drama and either sign him for a long term deal (doubtful) or trade him and not worry about any more drama until Smithy punches someone else in the face.

jk, smith is a beast.

by Shockers on Jul 27, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Longer Season

If they do go to 18 games, they’ll obht have plenty to do, and hopefully are smart enough not to risk injury by trying to carry too much. They have a unique chance to both excel and have longevitiy. Those make for careers.

by panthersnbraves on Jul 26, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions

TC

I went to Wofford for undergrad and used to take one summer school class every year so I could be there for training camp. A couple of hours in class in the mornings and watching the Panthers the rest of the day is not a bad way to spend the end of summer.

by Strickland843 on Jul 26, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions

Nice arrangement for sure

if you can pull it off!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 28, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

“That’s about as pessimictic as I can get.”

You could’ve gone a bit further: Not only do we have the 2nd hardest schedule in the NFL, but the Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons. That certainly is a reason to not pick them for this year. Although I am picking us to go to the playoffs, I just thought there were more reasons against us than you listed.

However, the analysis of not picking only because of Jake Delhomme and Julius Pepper’s contract issue is ridiculous. That’s just lazy.

by pancanbra on Jul 26, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions

Training Camp

I’ve been going for years. A group and I usually go down for the first TC practice of the summer……done that for the last 5 or 6 years. I love seeing all the guys and with it being the first day they usually hang around for a long time afterwards and we get a chance to meet them and get some autographs. I’m pretty hardcore into football so I’m in heaven just watching these guys run drills in shorts but ’d recommend going to anyone. I love going later too cuz then they go full pads and you actually get a chance to evaluate some of the guys.

by R-F on Jul 26, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions

Feel free to post your observations on this blog

We’d love to hear what your impressions were.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 26, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Good luck taking your daughter to college! Which college is she going to?

Also, how out of the way is Wofford? Is it an easy drive from Charlotte?

by Zeus12888 on Jul 27, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions

Very easy

straight down 85 to Spartanburg. If any of you are heading to TC and want to know where to eat/drink while in town let me know, I spent 4 years at WOCO and know the area well.

by Strickland843 on Jul 27, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

When Davis was here Fox used him first with Foster, the “change of pace” coming off the bench but now he uses Williams first with the bigger Stewart coming off the bench. Why the change from starting big back to change of pace back when it worked fine in 2003? Is it because Stewart is a rookie and Fox has issues starting rooks over vets? Yup. This is more evidence to Foxs blind veteran loyalty issues. I too see a rift in the future with these two backs, especially if they try to low-ball Williams when its time for his contract renegotiations. All that matrix dancing and laughing together is fine when your winning and getting carries split pretty evenly, but whats going to happen if they start losing and stinking it up? Theres no way with Peppers, Gross, and Gamble, then eventually Beason, Jarrett, Davis, and Williams that there is going to be enough money to spread around to make everyone happy.

by D.W.G. on Jul 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions

"Why the change from starting big back to change of pace back when it worked fine in 2003?"

I would have to differ on your point of “blind loyalty”. As a matter of fact, I think it was b/c Foxy had his eyes open that Stew was not the starter. D-Will had been busting his tail getting ready to be the starter, PLUS Stew was held out of a few practices b/c of various reasons (ncaa rules, PAC-10 graduation, and injuries). So Fox got to SEE a lot of Williams and not much of Stew.

I tried to have some fun with this topic. I hope it was taken well.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on Jul 27, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

It would be a hard sell to start Stewart over Williams

given the year Williams had. No need to fix what is not broken, leave the arrangement as it is.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 28, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree 100%

D-Will has shown what he can do, Stewie has shown flashes, but until he blows up for 20 TD’s and 1500 yards, lets give D-Will the reigns.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 29, 2009 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Not bad for ‘blogging on brew’. While I like the idea of getting the rookie fullback some reps, its unlikely to happen unless he starting on special teams. The Panthers can’t afford to use up the active/game roster spot.

by ThiagoTyson on Jul 28, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions