Projected Panthers 2009 Depth Chart: Receivers
Steve Smith - Projected 1st receiver - 5,9 185 pounds (9th year, Utah)
Steve Smith was drafted in 2001, the year the Panthers had possibly the best draft in their history. Taken in the 3rd round, all of the draft gurus had already pinned him as a return specialist, for there was no way a person at his height was going to be able to be a productive receiver in the NFL right? 40 times, college production, and all of the statistics all thrown out the window they took one look at his height and his draft stock flew down the drain.
Steve Smith set out in his career to prove them wrong. 4 Pro Bowls, 5 years with 1000+ yards, and all in a career that isn't hardly half over yet. Steve Smith is a deep ball threat on every down with his speed, yet he has the possession skills to make shutdown corners look silly in the short game. If the game is on the line and the Panthers are behind then you no problem. Steve Smith has shown time and time again that he has the ability to catch balls in double coverage and save the game for you in the end.
Steve Smith 2008 Highlights (via AMadden13)
With a six year contract extension signed in 2007, Steve Smith looks to be a Panther for life. It goes without saying that he will be the starter in Week 1. No one will question that. He is a natural leader whose presence cannot underestimated in the locker room or on the field.
100% Possibility to start
Muhsin Muhammad - Projected 2nd receiver - 6,2 215 pounds ((14th year, Michigan State))
Moose is a household name in Carolina. He is our current record holder in almost every career record in the receiving category we have as a team, and besides a 3 year stint in Chicago he has played in Carolina his entire career. He hasn't been exceptionally awesome. He's only had 3 seasons with 1,000+ yards in the regular season, one Pro-Bowl appearance. However, he has been consistent, and the blocking skillset he brings to the table is something a lot of other people don't catch onto when they look at Moose. Breaking off a big run is much easier when there is a big physical receiver to take out a safety or a corner out of the play. He's a good part of the reason that Deangelo Williams had his breakout year, and one of the reasons he will stay a starter on the Carolina offense in spite of being 36 years of age.
Does Moose stand to break 1,000 yards this season? Probably not. In spite of his rapport with Jake Delhomme, our running game is just too great to figure Moose getting much over 60 receptions again in his career. Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart will get the ball early and often with our coaching staff in remembrance of that fateful 5 INT day by Jake Delhomme. Their success sets up the deep ball game perfectly with Steve Smith once the safeties get sucked up in the running game, and Moose is left with possession catch duties when the Panthers are stuck in crucial 3rd down situations as well as the odd pass here and there.
I would imagine a 55+ reception year for the aging veteran in which may be his final year with the Panthers, depending on whether or not the following receiver is ready to take over.
80% possibility to start, 95% possibility to make roster
Dwayne Jarrett - Projected 3rd receiver - 6,4 219 pounds ((3rd year, USC))
While his USC teammate Steve Smith has went on to win a Super Bowl in his rookie year with the Giants, Dwayne Jarrett has yet to nail down his starting roster spot even though he was hyped as a tough, physical that could have went in the 1st round if he had a better pro-day showing and a faster 40' time. So far, he's been a disappointment. Dwayne Jarrett didn't get the start over Keary Colbert in his rookie year, and since then he has been reduced to slot receiver duties until further notice. In 2009, it's going to be even harder for him to hit the field thanks to the success of Double Trouble keeping the 3 WR set off the field.
However, there is some reason to hope.
Dwayne Jarrett is entering his 3rd year, which is the traditional time for receivers to break out and have a big year. Dwayne Jarrett is not without talent and playmaking ability, as he flashed last year with a couple of 3rd down receptions in the game against the Chargers, leading to a dramatic conclusion we all remember and treasure deep in our hearts. Finally, he will not have D.J. Hackett stealing snaps from him on 3rd down so he will be able to see the field more and finally start flashing those physical catches in traffic that we drafted him to see.
This is a make or break year for Jarrett. If he has a strong showing, the Panthers will take him under their wings as the 2nd receiver for now and for the future. If not, except the Panthers to work harder to sign that contract extension for Julius Peppers so that they can free up some cap space to search for Dwayne's replacement in FA. Dwayne Jarrett will make the team this year, but what happens after that is up for his play on the field to decide.
Dwayne Jarrett has an outside chance to start if he shows signs of improvements and Moose takes a heavy step back. If not, expect John Fox to go with the longtime veteran.
20% chance to start, 100% chance to make roster
Ryne Robinson - Projected in 5 WR set/Kick Returner - 5,9 179 pounds (3rd year, Miami)
Like Dwayne Jarrett, Ryne Robinson is at a crossroads with the Panthers. Drafted in the 4th round of the 2007 NFL Draft, he was taken in hopes that he would provide a reliable return man for the Panthers. Instead, he was inconsistent in his rookie year and suffered an injury the following year that put him on IR. With Mark Jones leaving via free agency, Ryne Robinson has one more chance to prove that he can contribute to the team.
As a receiver, Ryne Robinson is a small, speedy guy. He's not going to win many jump balls, but he has that speed that can stretch the defense and give defensive backs some trouble. However, he needs to improve his hands and hold onto the football better, as he was the result of two fumbles in his limited time as a rookie. With a little work he can be a contributor in the 5 WR set.
He is also expected to return to his kick return and punt return duties in 2009. Don't expect for him to keep them long though if he struggles early in the preseason. Jonathan Stewart has experience in kickoff returns and did well in the Pac-10, and Jason Carter along with a few other receivers have the skills needed to try out as well. Ryne has flashed the skills to do his job well near the end of his rookie year, but he needs to prove that he can be more consistent for the Panthers to commit to him long-term.
95% chance to make roster
Jason Carter - Suspected in 5 WR set/Kick Returner - 6,0 205 pounds (3rd year, Texas A&M)
Jason Carter started his career with the Vikings in 2006. He stayed on their practice squad and made it onto the active roster near the end of the year before being cut at the 07 training camp. Then he came to the Panthers, and Jason Carter turned some heads and amazed the fans in training camp. It would have been enough for him to make the team, but then he blew out his knee and ended up on IR for the year. In 2009, it looks to be another developmental year for the young receiver, and he may develop into a long-term answer at slot receiver if Dwayne Jarrett takes the #2 spot later on.
Jason Carter made his mark in training camp with his speed. Excellent hands, he'll soar up and make some circus catch that makes you scratch your head and wonder how he did that. And once again, he has that 3rd year breakout label working for him too. I'd be very surprised if he's cut at the end of training camp, Jason Carter should continue to rise into the roster and make the team through one reason or another, whether it be Punt Return, Kick Return, or another man on the 5 WR set. He is a playmaker, and it would be a waste for him to ride the bench.
80% chance to make the roster
Kenny Moore - Suspected WR - 5,11 195 pounds (2nd year, Wake Forest)
With Mike Goodson being tried out for the slot receiver position, Kenny Moore's roster spot has been put into doubt. He will have to fight hard to prove worthy of being kept by the Panthers. The ceiling of our other wideouts are far too high, and if Mike Goodson can prove himself to be a capable receiver it would make Kenny Moore obsolete, and he would be cut so the extra spot could be used at other positions. Depending on how Goodson performs, it's a virtual coin-flip on whether or not he makes the final roster. Will the Panthers go with 5 wideouts and accept Mike Goodson as a 6th? Or will they elect for 6 wideouts like they have in the past? The job of Kenny Moore hangs in the balance.
50% chance to make the roster
Larry Beavers - Suspected cut - 5,10 167 pounds (Rookie year, Wesleyan)
Averaged 39.5 yards per kick return and an amazing 29.2 yards per punt return as a senior at Wesley. He has a chance to make the team as a kick and punt returner. Though at 5.10 and 167 pounds, he is extremely tiny for his size. He's going to have to bulk up a bit to withstand the pounding he'll receive from other teams, one good lick will knock this kid out cold.
25% chance to make the roster
Jason Chery - Suspected KR/PR - 5,11 185 pounds (Rookie year, Louisiana-Lafayette)
A fellow Rajun Cajun from the same school as Panthers Jake Delhomme, Jason Chery declined offers from the Steelers and the Saints after the draft to sign an offer with the Panthers. A little-known player that was on the rise as the draft approached, he didn't manage to crack the 7th round. He listed Carolina as his choice mainly because he believed that Carolina would be his best bet to make the team as a Punt or Kick returner. He will attempt to do this during training camp, but with more skilled players ahead of him the chances of him making it are very little. He seems destined to make the practice squad on some team.
20% chance to make the roster
Kevin McMahan - Suspected cut - 6,2 196 pounds (2006 Mr. Irrevelant, Maine)
After being thrown around from team to team, practice squad to practice squad, the 2006 Mr. Irrevelant makes it to Carolina with a interesting skill set. He's 6,2 and runs a 4.4, yet he's never been able to put it all together to be a starter in the league. His desire to play the game is questionable, he once left a game while playing with the Raiders because he had bit his tongue. Seems like just another camp body.
5% chance to make roster
Marcus Monk - Suspected cut - 6,4 222 pounds (2nd year, Arkansas)
Monk is a big body, but he doesn't have the speed to provide for anything other than an endzone possession receiver. Never latched onto a practice squad during his rookie year, which is worrisome. He has a high ceiling as a possession receiver, but not enough to justify keeping him around. Expect him to be cut.
0% chance to make roster
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55 comments
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Comments
I have to say
I would put Moose at 100% chance to start. Knowing John Fox and his loyalty to veterans, even if for some reason Dwayne Jarrett decided to man up and perform better than Moose in TC and in preseason games, I can still see Fox starting Moose out of loyalty.
I also have to say I think an 80% chance to make the roster for Jason Carter seems a bit high for a team that usually carries 3-4 WR on the 53 man roster. Especially with Goodson having a shot to catch the ball some. I may be wrong but it just seems high to me. John Fox would activate 1 WR in a game if he could get away with it.
Moose is a lock
Like bengoodfella said, Moose is probably going to start every week regardless of what Jarrett does. However, I think we will see a conservative approach with Moose, and we will see a timeshare at flanker. We all know Moose is on his last legs, and we need him for a whole season, so at a minimum I think we see Jarrett at flanker when we are up by a score or two, or maybe on rotating sets of downs.
Jury is out on Jason Carter, like i said in my fanpost, he is going to need a hell of a camp to justify that roster spot.
I would love to see whoever the #3 guy is to get some playing time to save some energy for Moose. We will really miss his blocking on those downs but it may be worth it to save him and give some other guys looks. I am not ready to give the #3 spot to Jarrett yet.
I am excited to see what Ryne Robinson can do. I know he did not show much his first year but I feel like he is a guy who has a little speed and we need that in the WR corp.
The reason I had him at 95% chance to make the roster.
There will always be those players that make it to training camp and tap out to retire halfway through it. Some players prefer to taste the field during training camp and see if they feel like they can go the distance of the season before the start on their journey.
I made my post figuring that the Panthers hold 6 wideouts on the roster. With Steve Smith, Moose, Dwayne Jarrett, Ryne Robinson, and Jason Carter that makes five, and Mike Goodson will probably take up a 6th spot. That’s what I had in mind anyway.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
If they're going to carry six wideouts...
Goodson will not be one of them. He’s listed at RB, and that’s where he’ll see his primary duties. Don’t fool yourself thinking he’s going to come in and be a primary wideout after he’s never played the position before.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 3, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think anyone was saying he'd be listed as a WR
MP, I dont think anyone was truly suggesting that we would have 6 WRs on the roster and that Mike Goodson would be one of them. I think what they meant is that we would have 5 WRs and a “6th” RB/WR flex guy in Mike Goodson. The suggestion is that we carry 5 wideouts, and instead of a 6th we could use Goodson in spot duty and use that extra spot on something else.
You got it Tater596!
In the end we can only have so many people on the roster, and if Mike Goodson can play at wideout with the talent he has, I don’t mind only carrying 5 wideouts and using his spot to….let’s say keep both Hoover and Tony at fullback for example.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Moose has not shown any slippage in my eyes to indicate that he may "retire halfway" through TC.
Moose has always been a real professional, a hard working player and he keeps his body in top condition. The only way Moose will not be a starter or even not on the team is if he gets a serious injury. IMO
Will Parker
I thought the same thing about Minter.......
by Flowing Willow on Jul 5, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They were resting him...
…through much of the mini-camp and OTAs. At his age and experience, I think they recognize it’s more important to preserve his body by not overdoing it in TC. And with his demonstrated ability, there’s not a whole lot for him to gain by going all-out in TC anyway. I don’t expect him to retire. Rather, I expect he and the Panther coaching staff will try and hold him out to keep him fresh for the season.
I agree with you there Spicer. I know they won't overwork him.
At the same time, you never know. I don’t really expect him to retire either, at the same time I recognize that the possibility still remains until the pre-season officially starts up. I expect him to make it, the reason I left him at 95% to make the roster. We’re pretty sure he won’t retire, and you know the coaches will keep him on the roster if he wants to play. At the same time, the possibility still remains, and if all of the sudden we get a news release we don’t expect like with Mike Minter, we all look like dummies.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I'm with you on Carter...
I don’t think he plays on the coverage units, and his skills seem like they’re a little redundant to other guys we’ve got, but if he produces again in camp and the preseason, I think he does stand a good chance to make it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 3, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I really hope Jarrett has a breakout year. But I havent really ever liked him because one time i heard him in an interview when he was still at USC and he seemed way to cocky and really selfish. Maybe he has changed and gotten humble after two dissapointing seasons in the NFL
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 2, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions
Cocky and Carolina do not go well together.
I remember another cocky young rat that thought he didn’t have to give his all in practice. A guy who reduced the fans to crying “We want Moore.” And interpreting it as “I’m trying to give them more touchdowns.” in an interview like he was poking fun at the fans.
His name was David Carr.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I'm not sure if that was Carr being cocky...
That may have just been the result of so many Linebackers pile driving you into the ground because of the combination of a bad line in Houston and your painfully slow release and poor decision making. Like hes being cocky to make a joke to himself
He wasn't poking fun at the fans...
He was trying to express his frustration with them given they pretty much hated him from the start and gave the guy absolutely no credit for trying to play through a bad back injury on a team where nobody else was having any success at the position either.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 3, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
On some of the fillers
Jason Cherry was a special teams coverage standout at UL-L. He had almost 70 ST tackles in his career, and was regarded as one of the best gunner/kick coverage specialists (yes, there are people who rank such things) in this year’s draft.
Marcus Monk actually has pretty good speed for his size. It was surprising he didn’t end up on a PS last year, but he was productive in college, and I’d say he has a shot (albeit a slight one) to end up making the team. Not much, no, but better than 0%.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
the receivers
I think Carter has a better chance of making it than Robinson because he’s a better receiver. I think Goodson will be the primary returner and Carter could be the alternate. Robinson was never impressive to me, and I think we’re better off with Carter. It’s also possible we keep both, but I wouldn’t be overly surprised if Robinson got cut. I’d really like to see us bring in a couple other guys and give them a real shot as opposed to just being TC filler.
I don't agree.
Robinson was way more productive in college, and has, by all reports, had great offseason camps on offense the last two years.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 3, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It's still going to depend...
…on how well Robinson has recovered from his injury. And, whether any of these young guns can replace him. For instance, if Goodson can show he’s just as capable in the return game…can also serve as a backup RB…and occasionally fit in as a slot WR…we probably dump Robinson and wish him well. That also will probably free up Jason Carter to make the team…provided he too has recovered from his injury.
I think Robinson's more versatile than Carter.
Another factor I think matters is that Robinson’s probably more likely to be picked up if we let him loose given his actual regular-season experience and draft status.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I agree...
I do think Robinson would be picked up if we let him loose. No doubt.
But…we only have so many roster spots. I think Jason Carter is a better WR in the passing game than Ryne Robinson. If training camp shows differently, then fine. Let’s keep Ryne. But if Jason lights it up again and makes a viable receiver to put on our roster, we need look real hard at how much we still need Ryne.
To that point, let’s go ahead and assume we keep Mike Goodson. Every early indication seems to show we’ll do that. If Goodson demonstrates an ability to handle KR/PR duties across the board and has the speed to break them off for big returns, he makes Ryne obsolete. Essentially, if both Carter and Goodson show well, the combination of those two players puts Ryne on the hot seat and makes him much more likely to be cut…despite his “veteran” status and collegiate record.
Could letting Ryne go come back to haunt us? You bet it could. That’s why it should be one of the toughest decisions facing the coaches this year on who to keep.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
I think Goodson as the primary option at returner is a big risk...
It’s not something he did in college at all.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 12, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
In addition to the college production, we also have more invested in him being that we drafted him instead of picked him up. So we would give him more of an opportunity.
I think we keep them both. I like what I have heard about Carter (his hands, speed, body control, fight in jump ball situations, and he has decent size). I see Smitty and Moose starting with Jarrett, Robinson, and Carter fighting for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th spots. I also agree with previous posts that Goodson will see some time split out wide.
Will Parker
smitty
I’m just wondering if I am the only one who thinks Smitty is the best receiver in the league. A lot of people want to say Fitzgerald, but he was not as productive as Smitty during the regular season and his QB through for about twice as many yards as Jake. If we had a Warner, Brady, Manning type throwing the ball 600 times in a season, Smitty would be a lock for 2,000 yards. Without that type of game plan and QB, though, Smitty still led the league in yards and yards per game.
Here is how I rank the league's top wideouts...
1. Calvin Johnson- Only in his 3rd season in the NFL, “Megatron” has proven that he can be a productive elite wideout even in the worst of QB situations, which makes him a small step above Fitzgerald. his stat line last year of 78recs, 1331yds and 12tds is made even more impressive considering he got it done with Dan Orlovsky and Daunte Culpepper at QB. He is also a physical freak at 6’5" and 235 lbs. He can leap much higher than that, out muscle any CB in the league, and make the circus catches. He is truly a “throw it up and he’ll go get it” WR. If it is in his area, he WILL catch it. He is destined for NFL greatness.
2. Larry Fitzgerald- Just a step below Johnson in my opinion, while his QB is certainly one of the elite, he has proven on occasion that he can get the job done with a mediocre QB (leinart) and also without the support of Boldin. Fitzgerald is a large target at 6’3" 220lbs. with a huge vertical, sticky hands, a strong body to fight off defenders and get the extra yard, and enough speed to be a true downfield threat.
3. Andre Johnson- Another guy who has proven he can be productive with a crap QB at the helm like David Carr or Sage Rosenfels. (I think Schaub is decent when healthy) However, he always seems to be playing with some sort of an ailment, he can never be 100% it feels like. He is in the mold of Fitzgerald with a similar stature and upside.
4. Steve Smith- Smitty breaks the mold of the prototypical “beast” at WR that I am showing in the 3 spots ahead of him. Smitty is not going to make the catch by outmuscling anyone, or being taller than anyone for sure. But, that said, he knows how to best use his body to get optimal position on a catch, he knows when to jump (and jump high) to snag the ball at its highest point, and he has very strong arms and hands to rip that ball away and come down with it. He has the strongest motivation of any WR in the league (a little Napoleon complex goes a long way) and certainly can break ankles in the open field.
5. Roddy White- White is most impressive because even before Matt Ryan took the helm last year he was still over 80 receptions and 1200 yards with a revolving door of bad QBs. (i.e. Joey Harrington) He has just enough size and strength to muscle a ball away from defenders, but the breakaway speed to burn just about anyone down the field.
Wow...
No mention of Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, and company? Not that I’m complaining, as I don’t really like those guys. But still, in terms of their skillset, they should be somewhere up the list. Part of me wants to see Steve Smith higher, but in all honesty, I know having the so-called experts rate him lower will only serve as extra motivation for him. And that means even greater productivity as that Napolean complex drives him on. :-D
—Neil
I would drop TO and Ocho b/c of their antics. TO also drops too many passes to be considered elite. Ocho also has fallen off in production. IMO
Will Parker
This list does bring up an interesting little topic though.
In spite of the QB position in flux, Calvin Johnson still had 1,300 yards, 12 TD’s. Put him on….let’s say the Patriots, Steelers, or Colts, exactly how good can this guy be? In spite of playing in the worst offense in the league, this guy could very well be another Jerry Rice and none of us even know it.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
my point exactly
Calvin Johnson is something special. We will find over the next 5 years that our kids will look at him like we looked at Jerry Rice.
Then again...
How much are his stats padded because they’re always playing from behind?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Drops don't necessarily mean a guy isn't great.
Leaders last year included Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, and Braylon Edwards, all of whom are very productive.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe TO had quite a few drops, too...
…and over the course of his career, he’s been very productive. Even so, considering I don’t like TO at all, I was quite happy to see him have lots of drops. :-)
You'll notice all of my list is young guys
I’m not saying that Moss and Owens have not had great careers, because they have. But right now, if I’m picking wideouts for a team, give me the dominant youth instead of the NFL greats who are slowly starting their decline. Also, as mentioned by another poster, the guys i listed are not divas with off field issues, or else I would have been tempted to list Brandon Marshall. Or Anaquan Boldin.
Chad Johnson? No way. TO? maybe before he lost his hands. I would say Moss is #6, i had a hard time not listing him, but ultimately he just couldnt make it.
I almost agree.
I would put Moss ahead of White.
Smitty has probably the best skills in the open field out of all WR. He is also good to great in many other areas (jump ball, deep ball, etc). He could improve in his hands as he has dropped a few passes in his time.
Will Parker
Smittys production might go down
A Manning/Brady/Warner type QB might throw to the most open guy instead of Smitty. Jake forcing it to him has to help his numbers. I have seen open receivers running their routed, that Jake doesn’t see or ignores because his eyes are locked on Smitty. Not sure Manning would do that.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
There are several arguments both ways
pro-Fitz: Fitzgerald gets his numbers despite having a WR across from him who’d be the #1 on most teams in the league and a slot guy who would start most other places
produces even though the Cardinals have not had a reliable rushing threat
Fitzgerald can use his size to be more versatile as a red zone and jump zone threat
Durable (only 4 missed games in a five-year career)
anti-Fitz: Fitzgerald sees tons of targets and gets big numbers because of the offense he plays in
Fitz wouldn’t look as good if he didn’t have such a good player across from him
pro-Smith: Smith puts up great numbers as the only above-average threat in the Carolina passing game
Smith overcomes the play of a QB who is occasionally maligned for his inconsistency
Smith can go up and get almost any ball despite his lack of size
Smith is one of the strongest and toughest pound-for-pound players in the league (see the TD against Houston in ’07n where he basically threw 4-5 Texans off his back)
anti-Smith: Smith monopolizes most of the targets in the Carolina passing game as its primary threat; his target rates are as high as any WR in the NFL
Due to his size, can sometimes be smothered by the top big CBs
Gets better opportunities in the passing game due to the successful Panther rushing attack
Smith has a tendency to get dinged, missing games with various injuries. Has only had one 16-start season in his career
Occasional attitude problems
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Carter would be a good #4
I also think if Robinson dissapoints and Goodson/Beavers shines, we might end up cutting Robinson. He hasn’t really shown me a lot, then again, he hasn’t played a lot. I just think Beavers and Goodson offer more in versatility and potential.
I don't know...
I like Carter as much as the next guy. And, if he “flashes” like he did in TC last season and shows he’s fully recovered from his injury, maybe he makes the team this year? Robinson has to do the same though. He was showing progress and then suffered his injury that he’ll have to show he’s 100% recovered from before we trust him, too.
Then, there’s the wildcards of Goodson, Beavers, Chery, etc. If any of those guys show they’re a better return option on kicks and punts, that starts making Robinson’s skillset more obsolete. And it probably raises what Carter can bring to the table. Personally, I think Carter’s better in the passing game. And Robinson’s better in the return game. I think that will factor heavily into who makes the roster this season.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
What’s with all this nonsense about Jarrett needing to break out? It’s amazing how everyone says the Panthers need some help for Smith and every year they try to bring in another reciever to “help Smith” (Carter, Colbert, Hackett, Moose, Jarrett, Robinson) but some how, it doesn’t pan out. Know why? Its not up to the WR, its up to the QB and look who they have at QB….. a guy who is known for his tunnel vision, a guy who is known to not spread the ball around. Combine that with a conservative coach and its no wonder. I’ve seen Panther clips on youtube of receivers being wide open, but Delhomme is fixed in one direction(usually Smith) and just stands there hopping in the pocket, not looking at his other options who happen to be wide open, arms waiving in the air. Until they realize its the QB who has a problem of not spreading the ball, then it will always be Smith needs help every year.
Time to sigh....
First off, we don’t need any help at WR this year. Period. I don’t know where you heard that. Steve Smith had another Pro-Bowl year and Moose did pretty decent as a 2nd option. As for Jake, take away the bad game he had against the Cardinals and he had a pretty good year compared to most of the other teams in this league. You know, the ones that didn’t make the playoffs.
As for the game against the Cardinals, I wouldn’t put all of the blame on Delhomme. He was the direct cause of 5 turnovers, 4 interceptions and one fumble. The 5th one was batted up into the air by, guess who? Steve Smith. He also had a bad day. That ball was caught for an INT.
I would place most of the blame on the coaches. Sure, you can call pass all you want because you want to be diverse in your offense, but when your QB is having a bad day and CLEARLY showing a lack of confidence, with the 3rd best running offense in the NFL I would figure you run the football. I mean, it’s not like we’re facing a Pittsburg defense here. We’re up against the Cardinals, whose run defense was only average in the nfl, and helped tremendously by the sheer amount of time their offense stayed on the field. But that’s another story for another day, my point is that they didn’t edit the game plan to mesh with the current situation. If the coaches started playing by the strength of the team, the game might have turned out differently.
And hey, if you don’t agree with the other arguments at least agree with this one. Jake Delhomme is the best QB in our roster, period. There was no other QB in free agency that would have been an upgrade over him, and we were not high enough in the draft to select a man to tutor under him. With Jake Delhomme we have a chance to win a Super Bowl. Without him, we’re boned.
But then again, what do I know? That’s just my two cents.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
PS
I included the Cardinals rant because that’s the primary reason people poke fun at Delhomme this year around. Williams was given the ball to run only 12 times, most of them in the 2nd half when the game was out of reach. Jake Delhomme received the ball a staggering, mind shattering 34 times.
Honestly….
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
+1
I totally agree. Delhomme imploded in the Arizona game. But the coaches never should have had the ball in his hands that much from the very beginning. The offensive game plan was lousy. They should have tested Arizona’s run defense early and often. And, as soon as they saw Delhomme having that many issues with turnovers, they should have made some serious adjustments.
Also, on the flip side of that game, the defensive game plan was just as lousy. Arizona moved Fitzgerald all over the field to create mismatches and the Panther coaches never made adjustments. That allowed Arizona to go up big. And the Panther coaching staff crawled back into their collective shell, thinking they had to throw the ball all day long to catch up. That played right into Arizona’s defensive game plan, creating a perfect storm for Jake to further implode.
I also second the comments about there being no better option to replace Jake, both on our roster and in free agency or the draft. We are definitely a much better team with him this year than without him. They guy steered us to 12-4 last year. He’s still 5-3 in the postseason. He’s guided us to a Superbowl appearance, NFC conference championship games, division titles, multiple playoff appearances, and the list goes on an on. If you’re going to ding him for “tunnel vision” and “costing us the game against Arizona”…at least have the fortitude to recognize his accomplishments, too. That’s why I continue to see his glass as half-full rather than half-empty.
But that’s just my two-cents added to Revshawn’s,
—Neil
He threw the ball to Smitty sure...
…but he also has thrown the ball to Moose (65 rec in 08), Proehl (29 rec average in 3 yrs), and Keyshawn (70 rec in 06). I am not saying that Jake is a great QB, but he is better than people give him credit for. One thing that does not get emphasized enough, IMO, is the system that he plays in. Keep in mind that Jake can only do what the coaches allow him to do. They call the plays and put the personnel on the field.
Roethlisberger – career att/gm (1905/72) = 26.5 – career TD/gm (101/72) = 1.40 – career INT/gm (69/72) = 0.96
Delhomme – career att/gm (2434/86) = 28.3 – career TD/gm (115/86) = 1.34 – career INT/gm (76/86) = 0.88
Aikman – career att/gm (4715/165) = 28.6 – career TD/gm (165/165) = 1.00 – career INT/gm (141/165) = 0.85
Eli Manning – career att/gm (2284/73) = 31.3 – career TD/gm (98/73) = 1.34 – career INT/gm (74/73) = 1.01
Do you still think Jake is that bad? He needs to be compared to other QB’s that ran the same type of system.
Roethlisberger – career fumbles/gm (32/72) = 0.44 – career fumbles lost/gm (15/72) = 0.21
Delhomme – career fumbles/gm (52/86) = 0.60 – career fumbles lost/gm (25/86) = 0.29
Aikman – career fumbles/gm (47/165) = 0.28 – career fumbles lost/gm (22/165) = 0.13
Manning – career fumbles/gm (39/73) = 0.53 – career fumbles lost/gm (14/73) = 0.19
As you can see, Jake does need to improve his fumbles. To his defense, he already has improved in that area. He had 39 fumbles in his first 48 games with the Panthers (39/48 = 0.81). He had 12 fumbles in his last 32 games (12/32 = 0.38).
Will Parker
Jake is loose with the ball and has limited pocket awareness.
That’s his main issue -
1. He holds the ball too far away from his body in his drop-back and slides.
2. He is often unaware how close the rush is to him as he is very fixated down field.
3. Medium or less peripheral vision (misses DEs coming to get him and check-down receivers).
It’s important to note though, Jake has improved in 2007 and 2008. He still forgets and holds the ball low from time to time.
Tom Brady is somewhat the opposite, holds the ball high and close, good pocket presence and shifts.
While both are fixated down-field
Brady’s pocket awarenesss is superb, while Jakes is less so. That is the main difference between them.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 7, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
How does one define "pocket awareness?"
For his Panthers career, Jake has been sacked on 5.3% of his pass attempts. Tom Brady? The exact same 5.3%. Heck, Jake’s worst year was 6.0% in ’05 when we were playing with a very limited rushing threat due to the injuries at RB. His career mark is significantly better than perceived great QBs like Warner (6.22% career), Hasselbeck (6.9%), McNabb (7.0%), and Roethlisberger (9.2%), and not much worse than guys like Romo, Palmer, Favre, E. Manning, and Rivers, none of whom have a mark lower than 4.7%.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I would guess...
…that most people defame Delhomme’s “pocket awareness” not just on the number of sacks, but also the number of hurries and fumbles that result from feeling and reacting the rush as capably as someone like Brady. Maybe its all perception though. Sack stats alone won’t tell that particular story.
Jarret only caught the ball half of the time it was thrown to him...
How is any QB supposed to have confidence in a receiver who performs like that?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 10, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

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