Jake sucks?
by BSKincaid on Jul 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
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PrintFirst, let me premise my post by saying, I am not a football analyst, merely a fan that makes observations. So, if my observations are assanine or ridiculous, chalk it up to ignorance. Don't tear me a new one. :-)
Some folks and I were talking at work, and the topic of Jake Delhomme "sucking" came up. I, being the blue and black blooded Panther fan that I am, ran to his rescue. However, none of my arguments held water with my co-workers. So, I compiled a list of all the starting QB's in the league, and ranked them. I'll be honest, I did not expect what I found.
My list includes the starting quaterbacks. Not included are QB's that are unproven, held the reins for a year or less: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel, Aaron Rogers and the rookies. I found everyone in the league who is better than JD in my estimation.
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Rothlisberger
4. Kurt Warner
5. Drew Brees
6. Brett Favre (pending the Vikings signing)
7. Donovan McNabb
8. Jay Cutler
9. Eli Manning
10. Carson Palmer (pending his return from injury)
11. Tony Romo
12. Phillip Rivers
13. Matt Hasselbeck (pending his return from injury)
That puts good ole' JD at 14 in my estimation. Better than average, considering 16 is average. Granted, some of the people I disqualified may be better, but we don't know for sure.
People always fallback on the playoff loss, however I've seen Peyton, Donovan, Tony, Ben...all have bad games. It happens. Besides, Jake took the Panthers to 2 NFC Championships and the BIG ONE. That's more than pretty boy Romo has done, right? And the Cowboys are better than the Panthers, on paper. :-)
That leads me to my argument that the panthers have a "helluva" shot this year. A top notch run game, a better than average QB and a top 10 defense? Sounds like the makings of a Superbowl team to me.
Like I said previously, if I'm totally off course on this, I know the masterminds at CSR will set me straight and I will go to work with my head held low. :-)
Jake sucks? No way. Feedback?
The content of these posts are those of the user/fan making the post only
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It all depends on your criteria, obviously...
But I don’t think anybody you’ve listed above him is totally outrageous. Personally, I’d put him ahead of:
Hasselbeck-his numbers benefit greatly from playing in a passing system, and he’s only averaged out as the 21st-best QB the last three years in fantasy, which is a good measure of overall productivity. His .563 and .444 winning percentages in the regular season and the playoffs don’t impresms meo either.
Romo-He puts up good numbers, sure, but when the game is on the line and it’s important, he falls apart (see the Philly game this past year and both times he’s made it to the playoffs.)
Favre-He’s 40 years old, and he’s not getting better. He’s been outside of the top 10 in fantasy scoring 3 of the past 4 years despite playing in huge passing offenses, and he led the collapse of the Jets last year.
E. Manning-I think both QBs are pretty comparable in terms of skill, but I think Eli is a lot more likely to crumble under pressure when he needs to lead a go-ahead drive in the fourth of a big game (SB performance notwithstanding.) I also think he’s usually had more talent around him than Jake has, particularly on the line prior to last year.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Delhomme’s inconsistancy pushes him down the list. One game the guy can throw 3 td’s 0 int’s, the very next week it’s 3 int’s 0 td’s. I don’t understand how someone who is nothing more than a game manager in the offense cannot do the one thing he’s asked; don’t turn the ball over. Besides, Delhomme’s physical abilities are very limited, he’s had career threatning surgery, he can’t scramble, he has tunnel vision and a terrible sense of pocket awareness.Overall, I would put him at 16 right now at this point of his carerer, 5 years ago I would’ve had him in the top 10.
- If an OL blows a block and Jake gets blindsided and fumbles the ball…is that all his fault?
- If a receiver can’t catch a ball that hits him in the hands and it turns into an INT (as happened several times last year)…is that all his fault?
- If you come back and start 17 games after “career-threatening surgery”…aren’t you probably pretty healthy? I guess Carson Palmer and Tom Brady are down around 15, too?
- Can Peyton Manning scramble? I guess he’s a shitty quarterback.
- Did our #2 wideout have 900+ yards last year? Some tunnel vision Delhomme has.
- Who has good pocket awareness? Jake’s career sack% is the exact same as Tom Brady, who’s a god of quarterbacking, and the Patriots have usually had better lines.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey stat man...
I remember more than once a bounced ball hitting a Panther receiver and going to the opposition. You got a stat for deflected balls turned-over for 2008?
You'd pretty much have to watch film for that...
but as I’ve noted in a couple places, the INT that sealed the TB disaster after the blocked punt went right off of Rosario’s hands.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, lets look at the film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5906ZzP-s8Q
A few observations:
1. Our whole offense is running around clueless… like they have no idea why the ball is going to a specific location.
2. After one INT the ARZ player does Mooses through the legs routine… ouch!
3. Jake multiple times throws into 2-4 ARZ players
4. I see ARZ CBs completely leave their assignment to jump a route where Jake is throwing the ball
5. Much of the ARZ secondary seems to be watching Jake and running to where he is looking… maybe it is tunnel vision!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
It's hard for a ball to bounce off a receive
… when a defender 5 feet in front of him jumps his route for the INT. They gotta stat for how many red jerseys are in an area where the ball is thrown, compared to blue/black ones?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Ahh, yes...
One game does define a QB’s ability.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 19, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You bet it does
And we have til January to complain about it. And if we don’t make the playoffs, Jake better make the Probowl or something.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And if we do?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 19, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and by the way:
What of Peppers’ total shutout against rookie Ryan Clady? I guess that makes him a scrub?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 19, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If we do. Jake better protect the ball.
What do you think would happen if he has another 5 INT playoff game?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And if Jake leads us to six scoring drives out of our first seven while the defense allows the other team to go 7-7?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Then it won't be his fault
but you know as well as I do that Jake more than anyone else on the team cannot blow another playoff game.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
According to whom?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt Jake was the factor in that game...
But I also recall a defense that allowed Warner to sit in the pocket as long as he wanted to find a reciever.
It goes both ways. I love it when a defense fails it becomes the QBs responsibility to pull a team back into a game, but when the QB has an off night the defense is absolved of any responsibility to tighten the boot straps and get a stop.
by James Dator on Jul 22, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
- Inconsistent? Yes
- Should have learned to better protect the ball by now? Yes
- Physical Abilities? Can’t scramble? Most QBs, even many great ones can’t.
- Tunnel vision? Yes
- Pocket awareness? This ones tricky. I think Jake knows better, but gets so wrapped up in the moment that he has to make a play… which creates these 50/50 passes where a receiver makes a huge catch or the ball is forced into a place it shouldn’t be.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Jake ran for two TD's this year I think
Definitely cannot scramble. ; )
by Flowing Willow on Jul 20, 2009 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions
mp and donovan
first of all, i agree with the original post, somewhat. mcnabb obviously is more skilled than jake, but leadership is underestimated by many observers. mcnabb is not the leader the panthers need. jake is a better leader, tougher mentally, and also led the panthers to an NFC championship in Philly en route to playing Brady in the superbowl. As for 4th quarter comebacks, jake did that in the superbowl, but the following kickoff went out of bounds.
as for jake’s inconsistency…well last year his two worst games came after the bye week. my opinion, which can never be verified, is that a week off really effected his arm because of the injury. but in the oakland game, we didn’t give up 34 points. jake deserves a lot of blame, but i think he’s the best for our team because he leads the team. players play harder and smarter whne he’s on the field because they believe in him. that’s not the case in philly. shockey, plax, and tiki showed that’s not the case with eli. romo is the same way. let’s see how he plays without t.o. if the analysts are right, he should play better, but he won’t. i think jake is right around #10. i like favre, p. manning, palmer, rivers, brees, warner, brady, matt ryan, and cutler better.
and just for the sake of argument, i hope we draft tim tebow. he’ll get two superbowl wins for whoever drafts him.
Tebow? An SB QB?
Not until he learns to, you know, play quarterback. He can’t throw pro routes, he can’t read defenses, hell, he can’t even take a snap under center! Remember the last stud QB Urban Meyer’s system produced? Ask the 49ers how that’s workin’ out.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it hard to believe
that a QB could win 2 Nat Championships and be THAT bad. Sure he has a great team around him but still…“Can’t take a snap under center”? Aren’t we embellishing a tad MP? And didn’t the Fla “system” start with Spurrier? If the system is so good then why do the Gamecocks still suck?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
He runs a gimmick offense.
The spread option is not going to work in the NFL, period. Am I embellishing about his capacity to take a snap under center? Maybe, but only took approximately five snaps that weren’t in shotgun last year. That totally changes the difficulty in making reads and finding passing lanes. And Spurrier is irrelevant to the discussion. He left Florida in ’01, and Urban Meyer runs a totally different offense. The QB to whom I referred in the above post is none other than all-time flop Alex Smith, whom Meyer coached in the same system at Utah.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Spurrier's System
When Spurrier was at FL, he basically created an innovative offense that no one had seen before. Now, it’s old news. Many offenses today have little bits of that offense in them and now the defenses are used to it. Still a good system, it’s just been done before now. Plus when Spurrier ran it with Florida, he had all of the best athletes to run it with. That kinda helps too.
And yes, MichaelProcton is right….Spurrier’s system really has little to do with the current FL team. And considering that SC has experienced one of their most successful four year runs under Spurrier in their history, I bet it has more to do with SC than Spurrier as to why they are not meeting your expectations.
I'm coming around on Tebow
I know you’ve loved him from the beginning and I had my doubts at first. Why he stayed in school is beyond me but I’m starting to think he could be a very good NFL QB. I didn’t think that this time last year.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
He stayed in school because he was going to be a 4th or 5th round pick.
Say what you want about the need or relevance of his platform for Jesus, but he’s gonna get a lot more attention as a starter gunning for his third national championship and second Heisman than a #3QB/backup H-Back in the League.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
'Platform for Jesus?"
I haven’t heard that angle. Hey if he’s a mid-round prospect then he could end up in Carolina ;)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Yes, that was what he cited as his reason for staying.
I want to take this platform that I have by being a quarterback and being at the University of Florida and use that to help people and use that to share my message about helping people and about helping people’s lives.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 19, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I like these even better.
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27350111.html
A preview:
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 19, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
So we're raking this kid over the coals for being religious now?
Granted, the photos are funny… but give me a break. I’d rather see a kid willing to help underpriveledged kids in the offseason than stealing laptops or getting DUI’s.
Let’s put a little perspective in the argument please.
This year will be a test for Tebow. He and his father told Meyer that in coming back he wanted more free reign to play QB and help improve his draft position. I know we were seeing him as a 4th or 5th round pick last draft but we’ll see what he’s made of this season.
Is he going to be the next Steve Young? Who knows? But I do know that Tebow is a tough as nails and has a desire to win. I’d rather take a chance on that kid than JaMarcus Russell any day.
by James Dator on Jul 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Who was doing any raking?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh no , another 'Jake' post
Welcome the blog BSK and I appreciate the post. I say ‘oh no’ only because this summer no other topic gets this blog ablaze than ‘Ole Jake. I think both camps, the Jake Loyalists and the Jake Haters are firmly entrenched at this point with very little middle ground to discuss. I think you make good points and hope you will continue to contribute even if this post doesn’t go so well ;)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Just put a fan post titled "Jake (or Peppers) Sucks"
And it immediately gets more comments than the front page article.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think the fact that it is even debatable shows that Jake is not the QB that a team as stacked as the Panthers would want as a QB.
He may not be the worst starter in the league… but he damn sure is not the best.
A team with the front offices like the ones the Panthers have ought to be able to at least pull some weight around and get a half way decent backup to put some pressure on JDelhomme.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 19, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
Why isn't McCown a decent backup?
Who do you think should have been his competition?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
COMP ATMPT % Yrds Avg TD INT SKS SckY Rate Att yds Avg TD Fum Lost
TOTAL 609 1,052 57.9 6,582 6.3 35 40 93 680 71.6 127 569 4.5 3 39 14
Only one season has he thrown more TD’s than INT’s…
He has never at a QB rating over 75…
I just dont see it putting much pressure on Jake. I may be wrong. He may have the career of his life… but I do not think he is in the top half of the league by any means. I am sure that MP can put up some stats that says he is… but what MP always forgets is that the Panthers D has a LOT to do with how good Jake D looks on paper.
I am by no means a Jake “hater” but I do think the Panthers could do better.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 19, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha...
So it’s the defense that makes Delhomme look good. I usually hear it’s Smith, or the running game. Whatever you people can do to ensure that the QB ranked 22nd in NFL history for passer rating seems like a sub-par player, I guess.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
No… but the defense was one of my arguments toward you at CanesCountry(Jake vs Cutler/E. Manning/etc) about how wins can not tell the whole story… but you for some reason could not find anything on your stat sites to argue the point and did not comment back- which is absolutely uncharacteristic of you.
All I am saying is that if Jake D is the best you think the Panthers can do- you are just a blind homer. You can spit all the stats you want, but if this much of the fan base thinks they can do better… they probably can- and should. It is after all(as you have said before) the most important position on the field.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Delhomme the best we can do?
Depends on how you frame the question, obviously. But if you’d really rather have, say, Marc Bulger for $10.9 mil over the next four years or Matt Hasselbeck for $9.8 over the next two than Jake for $8-ish, I have to disagree wholeheartedly.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I would rather have these QB’s at their price from last year-
Drew Brees at 9Mil cap, 5 mil salary
Jay Cutler at 2.5 Mil cap, 6.5 mil salary
Jeff Garcia at 5 Mil cap, 5 mil salary
Trent Edwards at LESS THAN 1MIL cap, less than 1mil salary
Phillip Rivers at 7.5mil cap, 9 mil salary
Kurt Warner at 6mil cap, 8 mil salary.
Delhommes was almost 11mil cap hit. His salary was around 7 mil.
Once again I have to REPEAT that I am not a Jake hater. I think he is a great guy, and great for the franchise. I think his play is servicable, and I respect what he has done for the Panthers- however if anyone thinks he is a top 10 QB in the NFL, they are a delusioned homer. It just seems so many of the Jake backers really think he is the best we can do… and if thats true- its sad.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
- Cutler is a crybaby, he’s never been a winner, and that was a rookie deal, along with Rivers’ and Edwards’.
- Garcia just plain sucks. Where did he get TB last year?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Cutler maybe… but he is a better QB than Delhomme… as is Rivers. Edwards has the potential to be.
Garcia SUCKS?!?! Your just out of your mind…. If anything he is the QB in the NFL most like Jake Delhomme… only he can scramble.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He's got a sub-.500 career record.
That’s not getting it done.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
there you go with the wins again…
How good was the 9ers D while he was there? GARBAGE.
How often was he placed in for a injured QB or during blowout loses? MANY TIMES
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Coming into a game for an injured starter or to mop up wouldn't effect your record as a starter...
At least, that’s how I understand the definition of the word “starter.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
you never said a sub .500 career record as a starter.
either way… once again with the win totals. That was my whole point from the beginning.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the only way QB W-L records are tracked.
And over the course of a 10-year career, your winning percentage matters. If you were somehow on bad teams that whole time, it’s because you weren’t good enough for a good team to want you. If you played for five teams in that ten-year career (now six in eleven) and you never got a chance to be comfortable, you weren’t a good enough leader and player to be worth keeping around.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That is your opinion… cant state that as fact.
I’ll stick to mine. This is coming from a former(well still… just not as much) 9er fan.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you
Garcia does not suck. And with the successful running game we had last season, Garcia would’ve won us that game against the Cardinals. I know our defense wasn’t there during that game, but our offense didn’t really help either. The reason why Delhomme’s still around is that our style of play doesn’t require the QB to be Payton Manning or Tom Brady. Delhomme would’ve been gone if this team was a pass-heavy team. So personally, I don’t think Delhomme even makes it to the list.
Comparing Garcia and Cutler is ridiculous to me. Garcia didn’t have Dwill and Jstew, and Cutler obviously didn’t have Dwill or Jstew or a running game. That being said, if Delhomme was with the Bucs or the Broncos, he would not be starting for them for sure.
Excuse me?
Garcia would have won the game based on what? His 2-4 playoff record? The fact that no team ever wants to keep him for more than one year? Your commentary about Delhomme in a pass-oriented offense is wrong, too. He did just fine in ’04 when we were forced to throw the offense on his back because of all the RB injuries, and that was without Smith.
And you’re right, Garcia didn’t have Williams and Stewart; he had Graham, Dunn, and Cadillac Williams. That’s a trio of accomplished runners, but he was too busy losing his job to Brian Griese to worry about that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
For one, Garcia is old
That goes with his journeyman status. He is also forever underrated. He never gets good stats, but he is a leader, he inspires his teammates, and give him a decent team and he will win. His win percentage is affected by his years with Cleveland and Detroit. Also, maybe a good team didn’t want him because good teams have QB’s?
by Flowing Willow on Jul 23, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
So why isn't he one of those QBs on a good team, then?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate discrediting a player for salary reaons
Half of the guys you mentioned will have to get paid eventually. Of course Brees, Cutler, Rivers and Warner(not Garcia or Edwards) are better QBs… But they weren’t available. And again it’s not Jake or Peps fault for taking the money.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Your right about them not being available, but I think the fans have seen this problem for 5+ years now, and would like to see something done about it already. Either in free agency or by draft. I’m not talking about taking Jakes job away form him… I am talking about options.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds scary
To start tinkering with the most important position on your team, when you are set to win now, and the current guy has got it done in the past.
Plus it’s not like Fox to put a lot of pressure on HIS guys.
I share your concern, just not sure if I was Fox I would have done it differently
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would have prefered the tinkering about 3 yrs ago… we tried with Carr, but that was TRUELY scary.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
5+ years?
Jake had a pretty good season in ’04 by all reasonable standards.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
oh wow… one year. Your right. He is the greatest QB know to man!! I am a moron.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
"I think the fans have seen this problem for 5+ years now"
5 years ago, he was throwing for 29 TDs and nearly 4000 yards. I don’t know which fans you were talking about, but I didn’t hear from many at the time who said Jake was the problem.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
LEARN TO READ!
In sarcasm to the post you are replying to I WAS OFF BY ONE FREAKING YEAR. That dosnt make me wrong that 4+ years ago we have seen this problem coming then, does it?!
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
Four years ago, Delhomme was in the Pro Bowl, having led a team with a decimated RB corps to the conference championship. Want to keep this discussion going?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the year OCs started figuring out they needed to double Smitty
Steve Smith didn’t have the name he does now going into 05’. Now they put half the defense on him. Which is why Jake hasn’t been back to the Pro bowl.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
So what was the problem in '04, then?
Were they too afraid of Keary Colbert to roll coverage to Muhammad?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake didn't make the ProBowl in 04'
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 23, 2009 11:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He also had a much better year than '05.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Barely
His rating is 1pt difference, 1 INT difference and his completion percentage was higher in 05’. In 04’ nobody expected Moose to play that well.
The way he glued in on an underrated receiver made the success of both of those seasons very similar.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Yeah...
You can bet nobody in the league had heard of Muhammad, who only had a year as the NFL’s leading receiver to his credit.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He made the ProBowl in 99
And I think led in receptions once before 04. He’s had a good career. I just don’t think he ever got the attention a Smitty-caliber player gets.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
good for Jake.
There were plenty of fans who felt the way they do about him now after that Seattle game as well..
FOUR YEARS AGO.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
of the fact that Jake Delhomme is not the greatest QB ever…
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
" . . . if this much of the fan base thinks they can do better… they probably can- and should."
Really? Many fans also thought David Car should start over Jake too. Do you think they were right?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jul 26, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
does a Defense not win championships? Seems like I have heard that before………
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I've never heard...
“Defense makes quarterbacks look good.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
When you spit out winning stats and say stuff like “Jake Delhomme wins and Jay Cutler does not” I think it is safe to say that defenses make QB’s look good. Those were your words… not mine.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny.
The 4th-ranked defense in the league didn’t make Jason Campbell look any better. The 6th-ranked defense didn’t make Tarvaris Jackson look any better.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I say I liked those guys more then Jake? Did I say anything about those teams at all? Didnt think so…
Your missing the point and avoiding the fact that you STILL said that Jake is a winner, yet Jay was not because of wins alone.
What I said is the Panthers D has a lot to do with making Jake look better on PAPER. Meaning stats… which you love so much. If you think him getting more rest, less snaps. and more wins because of a VERY SOLID D dosnt help… I dont know what else to say. I never said it made him a better QB.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
???
How does a good D give Jake more rest and less snaps? Seems like the opposite to me……
And I get what you’re trying to say about you wanting a better QB and listing other team’s QB’s that you would rather have…..I love Jake and I can easily admit there are better QB’s with better contracts out there. However, whenever someone brings this up, I always respond the same way. Please give me a QB that we could realistically get that you would rather have than Jake and I’ll discuss this. I don’t really like when people say we can do better than Jake without giving REALISTIC examples of who we could get now and how we would get them.
I know you listed names above and I’ll ignore Brees, Cutler, and Rivers because that just isn’t realistic. Would you really have Edwards or Garcia ahead of Jake? I sure wouldn’t. Warner is 4 years older and puts up numbers because of the offense he is in. Plus, I really do think Jake is a leader and has proven he can take a team to the playoffs. Also, I am very much so against a lateral move at QB because I do believe that familiarity and stability do matter at the QB position.
by R-F on Jul 20, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would rather have Edwards..
I think Jake Plummer would have worked out decently as a backup to Delhomme. Garcia as well. Leihnart would be interesting. JP Loseman would be interesting also. I AM NOT SAYING I WOULD WANT THESE GUYS STARTING OVER JDELHOMME, but would knowing you have a servicable backup(or someone to groom into a future starter) hurt? McCown might be that guy. I dont really see it personally, but only time will tell- if need be.
I think something should have been done a few yrs ago. Possibly via draft. I really do like Jake- and stand up for him when I hear people completely trash him… however I think its a bit blind to think he is the best we can do.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
All of those guys mentioned
Are IMO worse than Jake. You say you want them as backups – but that is all they would be…..backups. Jake would still start barring injury over all of those guys. So is it just a better backup that you want? I’m confused because I thought you were saying earlier that we could easily do better than Jake but now you say you don’t want these guys starting over Delhomme.
As for a grooming a guy……Matt Moore comes to mind. Is he the answer? I don’t know, but it does look like we have something with him there.
You really think Jake Delhomme is better then Edwards? I think that Bills offense is going to be something special this year- and its not just because of TO. Edwards is on his way up to being one of the top QBS in the NFL. Taking some pressure off of Lee Evans will to miracles for him.
What I want is for Jake Delhomme to play the best most consistant football he is capable of. I realize he is our guy, but think some legitimate pressure would do him good. I think we could have a better guy- but are loyal to Jake, and since we will not ever go for a starter over Jake then we might as well have a veteran back up QB that has enough talent so we dont fall out of PO contention.
We may be grooming MattMoore, but I think we could have gotten a better QB in an earlier rounds of the past 3 drafts.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Edwards says he's ready to be "one of the top QBS in the NFL?"
His 18-18 career TD:INT ratio? His underwhelming YPA? His high sack% despite playing with a good line and a solid running game? How did bringing in David Carr-a former #2 pick who had started for, what, six years in the league—not provide “legitimate pressure?”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Buffalo has a good line? since when? they just took one of our backups and signed him to a big deal as a starter… Their line will be much better THIS year, but was not decent the past two years. Especially after injuries.
If you dont see the possibilities in Edwards- thats your opinion, but mark my words- HE WILL BE ONE OF THE TOP 10 in the NFL in 2 yrs.
I already said my piece about Carr…
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Edwards a top 10 QB? That is interesting. I have always liked Edwards but not nearly that much.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
They started a two-time Pro Bowler in Jason Peters, whom some consider to be one of the best at his position in the league; Derrick Dockery, who’s been a consistent starter for his six years in the league, and Langston Walker, who’s been a quality starter for the last three years.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know about Peters. He had a pretty tough year sack wise last year. I know they may not have all been his fault but he did struggle.
I am still leaning towards not agreeing that Edwards will be a top 10 QB in 2 years regardless of the offensive line’s prowess past and presently…especially if Jauron gets fired after this year.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Peters was good… when he wanted to be. He plays like Peppers- only when he wants to.
Just because Dockery and Walker have been consistant starters does not mean they were a good line. As any Bills fan… their line as been a weakness for awhile. This year they are poised to possibly have the best line they have had in 10yrs. Its a young line, but they have depth and strength. With Lynch’s run game, and the addition of TO taking pressure off of Evans, they will be much better.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
McCown has been just as good in the league as Losman or Leinart.
And we’ve tried to draft a QB. Remember how awesome LeFors was? Or Randy Fasani? How about Chris Weinke. Three straight years of drafting the position, and none fit into the league. Fox and the staff don’t like young QBs. There are often big problems in evaluating how their skillsets will translate from college systems, how good their leadership is, and how they’ll respond to no longer being the big man on campus. Perhaps you say that they should have invested a higher pick on a QB at some point, but why? For every Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger (who wasn’t even very good for his first two or three years in the league), there are two JaMarcus Russells or Brady Quinns or Kevin Kolbs or Vince Youngs or Matt Leinarts or Alex Smiths who do nothing but drag down your cap and provide headaches in massaging their egos.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
well a rookie salary cap is a whole nother issue….
but what have we really done with ANY draft pick at QB? maybe the problem lies in QB evaluation.
I understand the risk in drafting the high pick QB’s, but doing SOMETHING is better than nothing. You cant have a “wait and see what happens” approach in football.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
We’ve produced a pair of roster-worthy backups in Basanez and Moore, both of whom were UFAs. Frankly, that’s just as good if not better than having picked up guys in the draft who’d be paid more and probably would have the same ceiling (#3 or #2 if everything turns out great.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is equivalent because a lot of times in the NFL it is about getting guys who fit and understand your system. Both guys are really getting the opportunity to do so. I don’t want Jake to get hurt anytime soon but it is nice to have guys on the bench who you don’t have to pay big bucks for and knowing they are learning a little bit.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
And McCown is another good example. You don’t want to sink $4-5 million into a #2, but $1-2.5 mil for a guy who could hold down the fort for a month or so is a great investment. You don’t want to have to take the ball out of the backup’s hands completely because he’s so bad…COUGH, COUGH…Weinke.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if this proves my point or not but Weinke was able to come in the game when necessary and hold down the fort for the Panthers because he knew the system and was comfortable with the personnel. I would hope the same thing could happen with Moore and McCown.
Cheap backups are the best. Anything involving David Carr stinks.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not exactly.
Do you not remember that awful game he had against the Giants? That’s what led to the debut of the Wildcat in the NFL (it started at Arkansas.) If your team doesn’t trust you to throw more than 8 passes to win a game, you’re not holding down the forst.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember it. It led to D-Will being the QB against the Falcons and Weinke throwing a TD pass to Jeff King. It was sad to watch.
I was more referring to when he led the Panthers to a last minute victory against the Lions three years ago. Granted he stared down Ricky Proehl on every snap and then threw it to him, but it was a win and he threw the winning pass.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha...
So we could be comfortable with him if he needed to play for a drive, just no more than that. ;)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. One drive and nothing after that. I can’t say I was ever that confident in Weinke.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Moore held his own.. but when will we see him again? Apparently someone on the staff does not like him much? I thought he looked good… sad to see the Panthers give up on him. back to QB evaluations maybe??
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
They're not giving up, I wouldn't say.
But he was very young to hand the top backup job. He’s an RFA next year, so, in a sense, he’ll be playing for a contract. If he shows well in practices (even without playing in games) and builds their confidence, they could give him a 2nd-round tender and have an affordable backup they feel good about and they can let McCown go.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
What is Jake’s snaps per season compared to rest of the “Top” QB’s in the league? Obviously his injury affects his #‘s and this years slack D does as well… but I am willing to bet they are less then most of the rest of the “winning” QB’s in the NFL still.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I looked through Jake's game logs
To try to find correlation in his games with really low ratings, but came up with nothing. Not always before or after bye weeks. Not due to good or bad teams. There’s no logic to it, they just happen. 100+ rating one week, 40- the next.
I would somehow like to see this compared to top 10 QBs. Do they all go up and down like this every year? I would think not but never actually seen a side by side on this.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 3:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
"compared to top 10 QBs"
I’ll just compare to one Hall of Famer — John Elway — about whom I’ve compared Jake on other forums.
Jake is 34, right? Some say he’s near the end. Last year his best 3 QB ratings were 124.8, 122.3, and 122.3 — his worst 3 were 13.3, 38.6, and 55.3 (I’m talking regular season here, comparing to Elway, who wasn’t in post-season that year.) TD/INT was 15/12, and he lost 3 fumbles.
Elway, in 1994, when he was also 34, lost 7 fumbles, with TD/INT of 16/10, and his best and worst game ratings were: 130.3, 114.8 114.6 and 39.3, 43.9, 49.8. I’d say there’s a correlation of inconsistency there.
But a full 3 and 4 years later, Elway wins Super Bowls, and because of that, he goes HOF and becomes a legend.
Can anyone say with authority that Delhomme couldn’t do the same — even 3-4 years from now?
The future is unforeseen.
Ok that's reassuring
I’d still like to see, let’s say, a side by side with a few top QBs. And let’s say how many 100+ games per year vs how many 50- per year. How many career 3+ INT games would be interesting too.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'll do a little research...
…anybody in particular you’d like to see?
Raw numbers like 3 INTs don't really mean a lot...
Jake’s only done it five times in 86 career games, but the offense the Panthers run limits his opportunity to do so because he doesn’t get a ton of throws. Manning has done it 11 times in 176 games, virtually the same pace. Here’s the thing, though: Delhomme has only averaged 29.5 attempts per game, while Peyton has gotten 33.9. Thus, INT% is a more true way to measure the ability of these QBs. Manning: 2.8%; Delhomme: 3.1%.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course raw numbers don't mean a lot
When they hurt your argument
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 23, 2009 11:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Umm...they help you, buddy.
They show that Jake doesn’t have many 3 INT games, but, as I explained, he doesn’t get much of an opportunity to.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I can accept that
The Panthers offense limits him from having many huge games or many really bad games.
Of course that begs the question… If he was in a system where he had more opportunity would he look better or worse?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Or would he just look the same?
Would his rating and completion% and TD and INT %s all look very similar? Frankly, I think so.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
But would that mean more 4 - 6 INT games?
A few of those could easily tarnish a good career
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
And yet we've pointed out several QBs who have had more than one 4-6 INT game...
And you stand unaffected. So what difference does it make at the end of the day, really?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
I just think those games happen. Jake has bad games. Our team has bad games. It happens. I don’t think it is as simple as a pattern or a trend – each game is different. Sometimes Jake is off, other times we fall behind early and he’s forced to throw more than we want and it goes downhill from there.
For comparison’s sake, I looked at Peyton Manning from last year….
Week 6: 134.7 rating.
Week 7: 46.6 rating
Week 12: 92.5 rating
Week 13: 46.8 rating (team still won)
Season: 95.0 rating.
Part of me thinks that maybe games like this happen to most QB’s. Throw in the fact that our offense is very dependant on one aspect (the run) and maybe it does happen more often to Jake. I don’t really know – maybe it just seems worse because it’s happenning to our favorite team and it hurts so much each time it happens.
I didn't look at Jake's stats specifically...
But our win% is drastically different when Jake starts and we run for 100 yards versus when we don’t. It’s over 80% (playoffs included) for the former, and under 30% for the latter. Think that means something?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think either side is convincing each other at this point.
MP, do you check the email on your SBN account?
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I do...
But not very often. I did get your note and am working on an answer now.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, no rush or anything. I just wondered if you checked it.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Even though you paint me as a Jake-hater...
I just think the consistency thing is debatable. But regardless, like you are saying, it did became obvious in 07’ that Jake brings something to the team that cannot easily be replaced. It means something too that unlike other hot-headed receivers, Steve Smith has never complained about his QB. At least not that I can remember… I don’t think that’s just good manners on his part.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Compared to Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger
I looked up all 3 over their last 4 years where they played a full season (except Ben misses a game in 04).
Games with 60 or less QB rating:
Jake 11 total, 3.6 per season
Ben 11, 3.6
Manning 7, 1.75
Games with 30 or less QB rating:
Jake 2 total, .5 per season
Ben 1, .25
Manning 0, 0
Games with 100 or higher QB rating:
Jake 18 total, 4.5 per season
Ben 24, 6
Manning 32, 8
Games with 2 or more Interceptions:
Jake 15 total, 3.75 per season
Ben 17, 4.25
Manning 10, 2.5
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
My conclusion
Simply based on this, Jake is not as good as either of these two. Jake and Ben have similar amounts of interceptions and down games. However Ben more often has really good games. And Peyton Manning just blows them both out of the water all around.
Jake is also more likely to have really bad games (-30 rating), which Manning seemingly never has. However Jake only seems to have one of those every other season… so we should be good this year.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I don’t think we needed to prove that Jake is worse than Peyton Manning or Big Ben – that part is pretty obvious as those are two of the best in the league. I just wanted to look at a top QB like Manning and show that even he has bad games so we really shouldn’t be overly concerned with those games that Jake has. And there wasn’t really any predictability to Peyton’s bad games either, like you said with Jake.
fair enough
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 21, 2009 12:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Something that may contribute
Sometimes the Panthers as a whole have bad games, out of the blue, like they just forgot to show up. The games vs Atlanta and Tampa Bay are excellent examples. So it’s not just Jake, something in Carolina breeds inconsistency at times, and it spreads. The biggest knock on us over the years by analysts is that we are inconsistent. We have all the talent in the world, yet we never use it to it’s full potential.
But only a hand full of guys have been there since Jake took over
So there aren’t many other players you could place the blame on. Your argument sounds more like a coaching problem, which might be a valid argument. I LOVE Fox, but sometimes he does seem to let loose a bit too much
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 21, 2009 10:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Steve Smith has.
Want to blame it on him?
Jordan Gross has. Want to blame it on him?
Julius Peppers has. Want to blame it on him?
John Kasay has. Want to blame it all on him?
Nah, probably not. You’d rather keep Delhomme as your personal whipping boy.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we know we don’t want to blame Julius Peppers for anything.
None of those other guys either. The bottom line in regards to John Fox is that the Panthers came into the Cardinals game with a poor game plan that was even poorly executed, which is not like him as a coach. The Panthers rarely seem to get blown out, but sometimes I do question Fox’s insistence on sticking with veterans over younger guys.
by bengoodfella on Jul 21, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That's good
Only “a handful of players”, you listed 4. But what does keeping a Delhomme as a whipping boy mean? Or have to do with wondering if Fox is to blame?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
You decided that "the blame" needed to be put on one player or another...
And I’ve never seen you put it on any player other than Delhomme.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you read what you are replying to?
I was mentioning shifting the blame away from Jake and towards Fox.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
But only a hand full of guys have been there since Jake took over
So there aren’t many other players you could place the blame on
Given you’ve yet to suggest at any point that it’s the fault of Fox or any of the other holdovers, it seems the only person you’re willing to fault is Delhomme.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Great sub quoting out just part of what I said.
It seems as though you want me to not like Jake so you can further the arguments.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 22, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, did you not say it?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but most of us read in context
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 22, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes...
And the context of the situation is that you always blame Delhomme for any of this team’s problems and rarely (if ever) even mention any other player’s inadequacies.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 23, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
See Anatomy of a Play Fanshot put up by LittleKing last December
Everybody on the offense plays the rush that was called in the huddle — except Delhomme, who sees 8 in the box, slaps his thigh to signal Smith to run the smoke route, and Smith.
The result, a perfectly executed fade route for the TD, and a perfectly thrown ball by Delhomme.
Maybe some of us should keep these QB attributes in mind, when we overemphasize the Arizona meltdown.
Odd to me, who just saw the Fanshot, that there were over 15,000 viewers, but no comments on the post. Thanks, LittleKing.
Whatever. Delhomme sucks.
He’s been the sole cause of every loss the Panthers have had since he got here. Especially when he was hurt. What a pussy.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever yourself!
What’s with you today??
f—-ing, pu$$y, sucks?
How about don’t let vulgarity get in the way of your argument.
I got your whatever right here.
I make a perfectly reasonable post about another poster’s positive contribution to the board, and you go off, Whatever!
I mean, it's the internet.
It’s your prerogative to use whatever language you see fit, as it’s mine.
Also, that was sarcasm.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
Your usual insightful comments have seemed to get a little aggressive. Let me say, If one of my comments went too far… I apologize.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Another apology
Did he unleash the hounds on you, too?
Oh yeah
Read the deleted comment in “Julius Peppers vs Other Top DEs”. But I’m to blame for that one too.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Read what "deleted comments"??
How can I read them after they’ve been deleted?
hmmm... guess that's the dilema
Sorry, I meant the comments about the “deleted comment” ;)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 22, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I remembering seeing that play being analyzed on NFLN
Seems like I remember him calling an audible for a TD to Jeff King being analyzed sometime last year too.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Thanks you for the acknowledgment, sir.
I wonder how LittleKing felt, when his post was totally ignored, back in December.
MP, you do seem a bit upset today.
As I said previously, I do agree with you about Jake, not because I just think he is a great QB but because there are no better options on the Panthers roster. His Arizona game was brutal and a lot of people are remembering that.
Thats the thing… you can agree with MP but still want to argue with him because he says things in such a way that he can not possibly be wrong- and no one else can possibly be right.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
hmmm… more deleted posts? come on guys… is this really necessary? I would really like to know if this is Jaxon doing the deleting, or MP?
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 23, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
It was not me...
I’m not exactly sure what to say yet guys but just know I’m in the process of speaking to MP about his role here. I haven’t seen your email yet bigdavis but i will respond when I do
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Thank you, sir
That’s all I can ask. When you read my email, you’ll see which post of mine was deleted, and when it happened. Appreciate your looking into it. I just want to know who wields the power around here, and whether, IYO, it’s being overdone.
I sent the email to the email address you show on your profile. If not rec’d, please let me know.
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