Panthers Fail to Reach a Deal with Peppers
by Jaxon on Jul 15, 2009 5:30 PM EDT
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PrintI'm not sure they were even talking today but in the end no deal was reached between the Panthers and franchised DE Julius Peppers.
Today’s non-move also sets the stage for repeating this scenario next offseason. They will have a window after the 2009 regular season until the start of free agency to work on a long-term deal again, but if one isn’t reached, he’d be an unrestricted free agent again. If the Panthers choose to tag him a second time (and every indication is that they would), he’d cost them at least $20 million next year. There are no provisions in the contract he signed prohibiting them from tagging him again.
If there’s not a new collective bargaining agreement signed with the players union before then, next season will be played without a salary cap.
Maybe that is the entire end game with this, the fact there is no cap next season. Maybe Peppers and his agent are gambling on a huge uptick in salaries after the 2009 season. This strategy is not without its risk. Though Peppers has remained pretty much injury free most of his career there is that chance (I'm not going to say it). Part of me wants him to roll craps on this gamble but it would just hurt the team so I can't go there. Maybe at least we can be done with this whole discussion until 2010, right?
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Hurney should have busted his ass to get this deal done.
Because, every year, without fail, the contracts get bigger and bigger. They should have given Peppers a reasonable 6-year deal worth $70+ million, keeping it in line with but ahead of Suggs’ and Haynesworth’s first four years. Sure he’d make an obscene amount of money, but you know what’s going to happen next year, don’t you? DeMarcus Ware will want $55 mil over the first four years. Shawn Merriman will want $60 mil over the first four years.
That balloon only floats in one direction, and that direction is up. The sooner you get these deals done, the better they look in retrospect. Give a little. Hell, give a lot. If you instead have to do this contract three years from now, the dollar figures will be vastly bigger. Hurney should have knocked this out right now.
If your logic is correct then Peppers is playing his last season in Carolina
He would have to have a monster year, like 70 tackles, 18 sacks, 6 FF type of season, 2 INT, 2 Blocks for the Panthers to pay that kind of money for a DE. I’m not confident he can have that type of season.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Yet, with no salary cap...
who knows what might be affordable.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
No salary cap.
I wouldn’t be surprised if I looked into the sky and saw a pig.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
One more yr an let him walk
In a recent post I was feeling more positive about Peppers resigning but as we got closer I believe we all came down to earth an realized that it was not going to happen. Next off-season whether it is uncapped or not we still need to let this guy go. Their is no way I would sign Peppers to a one yr $20million dollar deal. He is already makeing a million dollars a game an he better have one sack a game at-least for that kind of money. Peppers agent has never done a contract by himself; give me a break that is not the type of agent I would want representing me. All in all Peppers will play hard this year for one reason a big payday outside of Carolina next season which is fine b/c E. Brown will take the bull by the horns at his position after this season.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 15, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions
Two more yrs an let him walk
Go ahead and pay him 15M this year, and 20M next. It won’t go against the cap, so who cares how much he makes. A potential hall of famer playing 2 back-to-back contract years! That gives us 2 years to make sure he is adequately replaced, potentially around 30 sacks and it won’t effect the team negatively in 2010.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
"It won't go against the cap?"
How do you figure? And 30 sacks would take a replication of his career-best season at 31 and 32. I don’t see that happening.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The Cap
I believe he was referring to the possibilty of a cap free year if no new CBA is in place.
by Strickland843 on Jul 16, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
If 2010 is played without a cap
And I said “potentially” 30 sacks. If he likes Meeks system, and they quit dropping him back in coverage, then he might improve upon last year.
Regardless the guy is possibly the best player to ever put on a Panther uniform. He deserves to get paid
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 16, 2009 11:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They dropped him into coverage once or twice a game.
Do you really think that was holding back his sack total? And you don’t pay a guy because of where they stand in your franchise. You pay them what they deserve on the open market. And the market says Peppers should be getting somewhere around $12 million annually (if not less because he’s older than most premier FAs and is notoriously inconsistent.) If he’d demanding $15 mil/year, cut his ass loose.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is what I'm thinking is going to happen
They might trade him in Oct at the deadline, who knows? Depends on how the season is going I imagine. I can’t see the Panthers wanting to pay what it will take no matter how good he is
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
It seemed he was dropping back into coverage more than that
but I never kept count.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
“And you don’t pay a guy because of where they stand in your franchise. You pay them what they deserve on the open market. And the market says…”
Really??? Well how do you explain Delhommes 20 million guaranteed when he ranks in the middle of the pack for QB’s performance wise when QBs who are better than him(statistic wise) make less? LOL. You put your foot in your mouth waaaay too often.
Excuse me?
Over the length of this deal (if he plays to its completion, which I doubt), he averages a cap charge of $6.92 million. Now, maybe you got confused and meant to say more when you said less, but I’d love to know what veteran QB you’d prefer who makes less money than that. Because I think we could pay more and get a hell of a lot less:
JaMarcus Russell: $16.9 mil last year
Eli Manning: $12.9 mil last year
Brett Favre: $12.0 mil last year
Alex Smith: $11.8 mil last year
David Garrard: $9.5 mil last year
Marc Bulger: $9.0 mil last year
Derek Anderson: $8.0 mil last year
Vince Young: $7.2 mil last year
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he sucks. We should go get Drew Brees or trade for Eli Manning. We should have signed Jeff Garcia when he was a FA or drafted a rookie QB so that way we can waste the last years of Moose’s career and the prime of Steve Smith’s career on a QB learning to play in the Panthers system. If you have an opportunity to set back the passing game a minimum of one year, why would you not do it?
It makes sense to get rid of Delhomme if you don’t think about it.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I don't look so much like a Jake-hater after all
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 16, 2009 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was kidding obviously. I am not a big Jake fan but until we get a better option at QB who can contribute right now with the team we have, I don’t care to make a change. If Jake’s performance hits the skids for a long period of time, then it will be easier to find a QB to replace him.
I don’t think those who want to replace Jake understand the time it will take to have that person integrate into the offense and get to the point they need to be with the receivers.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Jaxon..
Should set up a filter where anytime someone types the words Jake or Delhomme it automatically substitutes in Cajun Crawdad and if another QB around the league’s name is used in sequence it should be a household pet preceded by an adjective to describe it. Imagine how this would have affected MPs post above!
Over the length of this deal (if he plays to its completion, which I doubt), he averages a cap charge of $6.92 million. Now, maybe you got confused and meant to say more when you said less, but I’d love to know what veteran QB you’d prefer who makes less money than that. Because I think we could pay more and get a hell of a lot less:
Hungry Puppy: $16.9 mil last year
Cute Kitten: $12.9 mil last year
Old Dog: $12.0 mil last year
Lost Parakeet: $11.8 mil last year
Quick Chinchilla: $9.5 mil last year
Arthritic Turtle: $9.0 mil last year
Smelly Goldfish: $8.0 mil last year
Hidden Dragon: $7.2 mil last year
Notoriously Inconsistent?
Last year he had at least a sack in 10 games. And in every game where he didn’t have a sack he had 3+ tackles… Except for SD. He played better against bad teams like Oakland, which is perfectly normal… Except for Jake :)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 16, 2009 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Point taken. How many quarterback pressures did he have in those games? It just feels like he disappears sometimes in the past, and not just last year.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
3 tackles?
Really? That’s your benchmark? For a guy who got $14 mil? Also, he was completely shut out against Denver. 0 sacks, 0 FF, 0 PD, 0 tackles…against a ROOKIE!
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, notoriously inconsistent
Peppers: 10.6 sacks/16; 42% of games with sacks (45/106)
Dwight Freeney: 11.0 sacks/16; 48% (50/103)
Aaron Schobel: 9.7 sacks/16; 50% (50/101)
John Abraham: 11.7 sacks/16; 52% (47/91)
Leonard Little: 10.3/16; 42% (40/95)
Jason Taylor: 11.9 sacks/16; 54% (59/109)
Jared Allen: 11.9 sacks/16; (39/77) ; 51%
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish I had the energy to look stuff like that up.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a copy and paste job from an earlier post.
And, as is evidenced by my sig, I’m a strong believer that stats usually tell the truth (although there are obviously situations where they don’t…small sample size, aberrations, etc.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
2 Can play this game
I looked a DE comp, but came up with too much data so I am going to put it in a FanPost. Regardless it confirmed my feelings that Pep is very consistent and one of the best if not the best DE in the league.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Being the best is fine.
He’s still exceptionally inconsistent.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure we are going to agree on how consistent or inconsistent Peppers is, but I think we can all agree he is not going to get anywhere near the money he thinks he can get on the free agent market, even in an uncapped year.
by bengoodfella on Jul 17, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far...
There are always crazy teams (i.e. Washington) who are always convinced they’re one player away and will do anything to get a hold of that guy. But yes, the overall market doesn’t seem to value him like he and Carey seem to.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Help me out Panther fans
I’ve been hearing a lot today from the Broncos community that he may be headed to Denver (already bought a ton of Nuggets tickets for next season, etc). I thought he already came to an agreement with the team. What happened?
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
Got any news or blog links about this?
I see absolutely nothing on Google news.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
No real "official" source
just hearsay and things like that. I didn’t pay much attention to it for that reason. It does make one wonder though, know what I mean?
Peyton Hillis is also referred to in early Greek mythology by his other names such as Zeus or Poseidon.
The Denver thing has been floating for a while.
I don’t think there’s much to it other than the guy likes the mountains and a few of the Nuggets players.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
You mean recently? There were rumors back in March/April he might be headed to Denver but nothing that I know of since then. I can’t imagine they would trade him now but maybe they want to get something for him while his value is high rather than trade him mid-season. A trade now would avoid a season-long distraction.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Here's the problem with the idea that salaries will skyrocket:
With the salary cap’s limit comes a salary floor. If some teams are allowed to go cheap on payrolls (ie the KCs, CINs, and JAXs), there could be a lot less competition in the FA market and way fewer artificially inflated prices.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions
In the best interests of the Panthers...
I hope Peppers loses his starting spot on the roster at some point this season. That sounds really insane/bad to say, and I wouldn’t wish harm on anyone, but hear me out.
Right now, our DE situation is looking fairly stacked. Besides Peppers, we have Brayton- a decent run stopping former 1st round end. Johnson, and up-and-comer who might turn into a good starter sooner rather than later, and Brown, a rookie with what appears to be a boatload of talent.
We need to know which of these guys we can count on for the foreseeable future, and with Peppers jerking us around, each of their timelines get more and more screwy. I’m not sure if any of them are ready to be mainstays for the Panthers, but I know one thing: Peppers is not.
I would trade his ’09 sack total for a a clue whether we have our DEs of the future or not.
I don’t know whether Peppers is in it for the money or just wants out of Charlotte (for one reason or another), but the idea of rooting for someone like that on our team just doesn’t sit right.
Honestly, I hope he’s getting overpaid on another team in the NFC S this time next year.
by the bomb dot com on Jul 16, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions
I hope he's getting overpaid by another team
But not in the NFC South.
Or, who knows, at season end, he may sign a long term deal. for now… its a bit moot.
+1
send him to NE next season if that is where he wants to go. He won’t get the love he is expecting from his new fan base. They have the Red Sox and celtics as well and once they see what they get for the money they will pay him it will get ugly. If his psyche is weak now just wait until a stadium is booing him (okay, I’m stretching the hypothesis I realize)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Stacked???
Even with Peps 14.5 sacks last year we couldn’t get a consistent pass rush. I don’t think replacing him will be nearly as easy as you guys think. Why are you assuming a 3rd and late 1st round rookie undersized DEs are going to fill Peps shoes?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 16, 2009 3:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, not exactly stacked but we do have some depth. It is going to be hard to replace his numbers though.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it doesn't stop there.
With $16 mil more in cap space, we could have acquired: a top-3 CB (do you really feel comfortable knowing that CJ Wilson is our best option at nickel at the moment? Or with Marshall as the unchallenged starter after the way he played last year?), a starting-caliber DT to move Lewis back to the bench where he’s more effective, or a more dynamic LOLB than Diggs. And that says nothing of, say, a veteran receiver we could have gotten to play in a top-3 role to help extend drives and keep the D off the field.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
To answer you in short:
No, I don’t feel comfortable with that, I think Marshall will bounce back but some competition would be nice, yes we need a starter type DT, but I am cool with Diggs for the time being (meaning Dan Connor, please step up at some point this year), and who needs a veteran receiver when you have three question marks like Jarrett, Robinson, and Carter competing for the 3 WR position? Someone is bound to rise above mediocrity and show the ability to be an average receiver…right…right?
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Dj Hackett anyone?
Going into last season I thought he was a brilliant hire, obviously he proved that completely wrong.
Good point.
Although his pre-injury performance was impressing everybody on the team.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
CBs need a pass rush
I don’t care who you get in there at CB, they can’t do their job well without someone(s) disrupting the QB. And taking away your best pass rusher doesn’t help. So I think your scenario is a wash at best.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Oops....I meant to say there just wasn't enough time to reach any kind of long term deal
They were doing what they could just to get him to sign his franchise tender on June 24. Half a month simply wasn’t enough time to hash out a 100mil $ deal. If all goes well this season hopefully we can lock him up later, similar to what we did with Gross last year.
I mean, they've been discussing a LTD for years (plural.)
Carey’s an idiot and Peppers doesn’t want to play here. Time wasn’t the deciding factor.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if you take him at his word......
“Both sides tried,” said Carl Carey, Peppers’ agent. “Julius feels good about the one-year deal and is ready for the season to begin.”
by Darth Trader on Jul 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the blog Darth T
It woul dbe nice for it to have happened but I think his agent has visions of $60M guaranteed and 8 years for $100M. I’m not seeing the Panthers ponying up what will be required to keep him happy
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
You know...
tall, big mouth, smiles like he doesn’t know what’s going on a lot?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure I recall him honestly. Though if I did recall him, this would be my input:
I am afraid for how this will end. I feel better about the Panthers chances of having this go their way after this season simply because I feel like Brown has the potential to make up some of the sacks not having Peppers around would cause the team to lose. I was fully prepared to lose Peppers, so I am amazed to have him back on the team.
Carl Carey is over his head on this one. I think he should have accepted a new deal for Peppers when he could. I know Peppers could make a killing as a FA, and next year may be uncapped, but he’s burning some bridges here in Carolina. I don’t know that he will get anywhere else the type of deal he got here. The fact he wants to learn a new system and change the type of defense he plays in at the age of 30 is certainly not impossible, but I don’t think either Peppers or Carey have an endgame here.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If Suggs, who's younger and has EXPERIENCE at more than one position could "only" get $63/6...
Why in God’s name does Peppers or his “agent” think he can fetch $90?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate knocking Peppers because he does still play for the Panthers and I support him because of that…but the reason Peppers thinks he can get more is because he thinks he is a better football player than Suggs.
Again, I do like Peppers, and I may get killed for saying this because Peppers has put up great numbers for the Panthers, but I think a lot of his impact is some hype. I have seen too many games where he just disappears or been blocked by guys who should not be blocking him. I am not talking about just the Cardinal game either.
I think Carey seems to believe he has the goose that laid the golden egg in Peppers but he is going to be 30 when/if he hits the FA market. Depending on what happens this year, I just don’t know how many teams are going to be willing to give up a ton of money for a defensive end who is 30 years old and wants to learn a new position.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Peppers is an athelete
He proved it at UNC where he played both football and basketball, and he was a STARTER on the basketball team too, which as anyone who knows anything about College Basketball will tell you, is an amazing feat given the talent that roster has year in and out.
I have no doubt that Peppers could play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense, but they are not going to pay him to find out. If he really wants to do that, he better be expecting a cut rate while he learns the spot, and then maybe more money once he proves he can do it.
That’s a great point, but by the time he has proven he can do it, which will be another 2 years he will be 32 years old. Good luck getting a ton of guaranteed money and a long term deal at that point. I am not disagreeing he could be a great OLB in a 3-4 defense but it is a huge risk. He’s having a mid-career crisis and needs to get over it.
Also, I don’t know if I recall him starting on the Tar Heels team. He was a reserve for them and he couldn’t beat out Kris Lang for the starter spot either because he did not dedicate himself to basketball full time or Lang was better. Take your pick.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He definately started a few games, and/or was the 6th man
The thing with Peppers, as you would imagine, he got called for a lot of fouls. That is a big body to throw around against a bunch of college kids. He was an incredible rebounder, and just a general inside force. As far as raw basketball skills however? Lets just say he picked the right professional sport.
Yeah, he picked the right sport. He could rebound pretty well but with his 0.2 and 0.5 blocks per game, I don’t know if I would call him a force. Point taken though.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct.
Never started in 56 career b-ball games.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what?
He’s a good football player because he used to play basketball?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He is also a badass shuffleboard player.
I do think the idea was that Peppers was a great athlete and can make the transition to a standup 3-4 LB.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't put words in my mouth
I highlighted his basketball career at a university known for great basketball as a way of demonstrating his versatility as an athlete. It is rare success on a football field can translate to success on the parquet floor. It is a very different skill set.
It also demonstrates his ability to learn things, needing to learn playbooks for a major school in its two major sports.
Just examples of why noone should doubt either his physical or mental ability to make said transition, and I applaud the guy for an apparent desire to learn more and be more.
I did not put words in your mouth.
You realize by applauding his decision to learn more and be more he is taking himself out of a position where he is a top 10 player and into a position where there is no history of success right? And he wants someone to pay him top dollar for this transition based on the fact he can put a basketball in a hoop well and he managed to learn Matt Doherty’s 3 page playbook?
I would applaud Steve Smith he wanted to be a running back, but I would also question his sanity and then wonder why he expected to be paid top dollar on a new contract to play this new position. That’s all.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
he wants someone to pay him top dollar for this transition based on the fact he can put a basketball in a hoop well and he managed to learn Matt Doherty’s 3 page playbook?
+a bajillion.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasnt even referring to you putting words in my mouth.
My reply was to MP on this…
He’s a good football player because he used to play basketball?
and as to this…
And he wants someone to pay him top dollar for this transition based on the fact he can put a basketball in a hoop well and he managed to learn Matt Doherty’s 3 page playbook?
Again. Read my post. I’m merely demonstrating versatility as an athlete and work ethic. You’re both taking it way beyond what I’m stating, hence me saying “you’re putting words in my mouth” also, from one of my earlier comments on the matter…
I have no doubt that Peppers could play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense, but they are not going to pay him to find out. If he really wants to do that, he better be expecting a cut rate while he learns the spot, and then maybe more money once he proves he can do it.
When I say I applaud him for his desire to learn more and be more, this has nothing to do with finances. I have respect for people who desire to learn more and develop their skillset. “Be More” may have been a bad choice of words, i was meaning to become even more of a threat to where he knows another position that is affiliated with his and becomes more dynamic because of it. A Julius Peppers playing DE is not as dangerous as a Julius Peppers at DE who can also drop back into a linebacker role situationally. The more he increases his football IQ, the better he will be, and I cannot fault him for that.
Ok, I can’t argue with that at this point then. It just won’t be on the Panthers team that he learns to do this and expand his skill set. I don’t know if the Panthers will ever just let him go. We may have another battle next year.
To think if Peppers had hired an agent who has experience, or has negotiated one major deal in his life, I would not be talking with you about this and he would be a Panther for life.
If you hire idiots to work for you, you end up looking like an idiot at some point yourself.
by bengoodfella on Jul 16, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
But he's going to hurt some team he's on during that transitional period.
If he wants to stay with the coaches during the summer and work on LB drills or if he wants to see the playbook and learn those positions, that’s something he can ask to do on his own. But hell, Peppers doesn’t even work out in Charlotte over the offseason, because he’s about himself, not the Panthers or his teammates or the fans or anybody else.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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