Ranking the NFC South Position-by-Position

by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 2:01 PM EDT Comment 93 comments

While idly searching for new web content on the Panthers, I came across a series of position-by-position rankings posted by Pat Yasinskas over on ESPN.com. There's some interesting plaudits thrown our way...

Defensive Linemen:

The Panthers placed #2 (Julius Peppers), #8 (Charles Johnson), and #9 (). It's a little surprising to see Charles Johnson get on the list that high given his limited playing time. I would have thought Kemo would place a little higher.

Offensive Linemen:

The Panthers placed #1 (Jordan Gross), #7 (Jeff Otah), and #10 (Travelle Wharton). Personally, I feel like Otah ought to be higher on the list, despite only a single season rookie performance to date.

Running Backs:

It's interesting that we placed #2 (Deangelo Williams) and #3 (Jonathan Stewart) behind Atlanta's Michael Turner. If our guys weren't splitting carries, they'd blow Turner off the list...and the field. Meanwhile, we also placed #10 (Brad Hoover). In a word...Hoooooooov!

Wide Receivers:

The Panthers placed #1 (Steve Smith) and #6 (Muhsin Muhammad). Not too shabby, especially for Moose. He's essentially listed as the #2 WR2 in the whole group.

Tight Ends:

They only reviewed the starting primary TEs for each team and we placed dead last at #4 (Jeff King). I'd have liked to see a full Top 10 so they could have rated Dante Rosario, as I think he could have made the list, too.

And last but not least...

Quarterbacks:

We get the #3 (Jake Delhomme) and #4 (Josh McCown) spots, right behind New Orleans' Drew Brees and Atlanta's Matt Ryan. I think it's somewhat humorous that our 2nd string QB is ranked ahead of the starters for two of our division rivals as well as all of the backups for every other NFC South team. Not too shabby, Josh!

Anyway, that's all they've done so far. No word on LBs or the DBs yet...or special teams, if they bother to rank them as well. They're obviously trying to fill in time on their blogs during the off-season. But it's still great fodder for discussion.

Update: Here's the rankings for the Defensive Backs

The Panthers Chris Gamble came in at #1 whom Yas says is the only 'shut down corner' in the division.

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Comments

Otah didn't have to do much last year...

And he missed several games after missing LOTS of preseason work.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Turner...

is overrated I think. I really think the Falcons are way overrated this year, but we will see. Jake only beat out the starter for one of our division rivals, TB. I wonder where Vick would go on that list too, both now and a couple years ago.

by CatRashFever on Jun 8, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Their offense will be one of the best in the league.

Their defense is the question mark.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jun 8, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

even the offense

isn’t proven after just 1 season.

scary looking, but not proven.

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 8, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't say that.

I would understand it if it was just one or two positions, but their offense is a frightening thing. With almost all of their offensive starters coming back next year, I see no reason for the Falcons defense to suddenly drop back.

Like I said though, their defense has a whole new look this year. We’ll see how good they do, but I think they took a step back.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jun 9, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sophomore slump for Ryan...

His numbers really tailed off towards the end of the year; perhaps coaches and coordinators found something in the film to “figure him out.”

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

I live with two kids from Atlanta that refuse to believe this possibility exists. Only thing that may have changed my mind is Tony coming in but is White a legit #1?

by CatRashFever on Jun 9, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, I'm a Georgia boy

and even I see the possibility of them crashing pretty hard, the defenses they faced last season are NOTHING compared to what they have in store for them next season.

Roddy White still drops a lot of passes, but compared to a lot of other teams options at #1, he is legit (though not quite as legit as Steve Smith). Though it is going to be nice for Atlanta to have a quality #1 type receiver in a TE that is also a proven blocker for the second best running attack in the NFC South (I still give the #1 run game to Carolina).

I will stick to my point. Definitely scary. However, they won’t have the “surprise factor” that they had going for them last season. They will be much more prepared for. Teams started being successful against Ryan after they stopped blitzing him and started covering his receivers – that is what made Ryan look so good early in the season, he threw well under pressure and pressure only added to his options at open receivers.

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 9, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan is very good under pressure

I always go back to the BC vs, GT game in Ryan’s senior season. We blitzed his arse all day and just sat back and hit throw after throw. It was demoralizing and that is when I knew the good was NFL material. Very cool under pressure but his WR’s have to hold up their end.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Had a similar enlightenment

On the across the body throw to the end zone against my Clemson Tigers to put us out of the ACC champ. couple years back. Guess I’ll never be able to be a Matt Ryan fan although I admire what he did in the dirty with that franchise last season. Might go down as one of the better Rookie QB seasons ever.

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 9, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Across the body..

Ryan did one of those on the move vs VT his senior year. I was watching the game and boy was it pretty!!! Won the game for them too I think.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 10, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roddy...

He drops a lot of passes, yes, but no more than the league leaders (a group that includes Smith and Muhammad.) I will say, though, that you’d hope the addition to Gonzalez to the receiving corps will help Ryan decrease his reliance on White. As much as people criticize Delhomme for locking on to Smith, Ryan threw just as much to White, and his 2nd option wasn’t as productive as Jake’s.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to say it...

But I think you all are dead wrong about Ryan. First of all, he relied on White about as much as Dehlomme relied on Smith because he was far and away their best receiving talent, with not much depth behind him. I see no sophomore slump for Ryan, unfortunately. If you look at trends with stats across the league sophomore slumps generally occur with Wideouts and Running Backs, not Quarterbacks. QB’s are almost always dreadful during their rookie season and Ryan really shined. If history means anything he is only going to get better and better, which really sucks for the Panthers who already have to face Brees twice a year. I think maybe your bias’ against the Falcons are blinding you all to this kid’s potential.

As for Turner, I agree, he is crazy overrated. Almost as overrated as Adrian (I Fumble all the time) Peterson. Turner’s numbers are inflated due to the Falcons running ALL the time and most of his big gains came at the end of games when they were running out the clock and the defense was defeated. His yards per carry was nothing compared to that of Deangelo who is much more of a big play threat.

by pancanbra on Jun 9, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

So because he doesn’t have as much room to improve as most first-time/rookie starters, he won’t see the dramatic improvement that most do. Further, it’s impossible to deny that he slumped towards the end of the year (5:7 TD:INT ratio over his last five games, coming against mostly mediocre pass defenses.)

Also, these are going back a while, but Joe Namath, Fran Tarkenton, Dennis Shaw, Steve Bartkowski, Jim McMahon, and Jim Plunkett were some of the notable rookie starter QBs who fell off in their second year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MP, your not really a person right?

Your an NFL mainframe computer that is just screwing with us on a daily basis by spitting out these facts non-stop! Joe “I want to kiss Suzy Colbert” Namath? Fran ‘the scrambler’ Tarkenton, talk about reach back, that is even before my time and I feel like the oldest blogger in history some times. Tarkenton was my fave when I was but a wee lad.

I didn’t realize Ryan slumped at the end of the season but that TD/INT ratio doesn’t lie. Teams definitely began to figure him out as the season went along. I’d love to see a soph slump (at least through game 2) but I’m not hopeful.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha...google is my mainframe...

My mother was asking me what the new Microsoft search engine (bing) was all about, and I told her it was for people who didn’t know how to use search engines. Fortunately for me, though, that’s one of the strengths in my skillset.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MP the Google-Guru

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 9, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The td/int ratio is impressive but you have to keep in mind that the Falcons rushing attack also slumped towards the end of the year, putting more pressure on the rookie and Matt Ryan, like all rookies was experiencing 16 NFL games in one season for the first time. The long grind of a season will start to have its effect on a rookie QB. I think the fall off is due more to that then a trend of things to come in his sophomore season.

Quarterbacks are not like baseball hitters when it comes to weaknesses being exploited by opposite teams. Football is a team sport and his fall off would be just as much due to defenses exploiting the Falcon’s gameplan and receivers as much as exploiting just their QB.

by pancanbra on Jun 9, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with the second part...

There are tendencies of QBs (such as what audibles they call most often, what receivers they go to on what plays, what routes are called in what formations) which defenses can exploit.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you can't really assume it was fatigue

In 2007 at BC, Matt Ryan threw the football 555 times for 3,953 yards.

In 2008 as a Falcons, he threw the ball only 434 times for 3,440 (and you can then count the 40 more times in the playoff game if you’d like and he still wouldn’t touch the numbers he hit his senior year)

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 9, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he did it in 25% fewer games!

But pancan has a point, if only in regards to the grind of mental preparation of the NFL. Being a starting QB as a rookie is a tough job, and for Ryan, it basically started from the day he was drafted. That can take a toll, if emotionally, rather than physically.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget the lack of break Ryan had before last season...

PLaying as a senior at BC, getting ready for the draft, Minicamp, OTAs, fighting for the job in training camp, playing 17 games….He really has been grinding it for about 20 months….

"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."

Bobby Bowden

by NaGaNole on Jun 10, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

They have always been scary. Hell they had Vick back there for a bit I would leave the game with no finger nails left after watching him pick up 3rd and 8 every time it seems. Matt Ryan sure is a wonder kid but I think defenses play differently when playing what they believe to be a top offense rather than a poor Atlanta team like last year.

by CatRashFever on Jun 9, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to the blog Cat Rash

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 9, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to the blog Cat Rash

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leftwitch only at 10??? What@#$!!

Leftwitch is probably the most quality backup in the league. That is assuming he doesn’t wind up starting. Just like in Pitt, he can come in and the team not skip a beat. I would have had him at number 4.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hard to make that argument...

When he didn’t actually start a game, and hasn’t done so well since about 2005.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok let me try

Leftwich’s career QB rating is 10 points higher than McCown. McCown’s only good season was 2004, but still -5 rating below Leftwich. The last time I remember him starting was I think 2007, and he won like 2 games.

In Jacksonville before Leftwich caught the Dan Morgan bug, he was easily a top 10 QB. I really would like to know how you put him after McCown?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 9, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here goes:

The last time Leftwich was given the chance to start (Atlanta ’07), he performed worse than two other QBs they had there who also started games: Chris Redman (eew) and Joey Harrington (DOUBLE eew!)

If you were comparing him to McCown based on statistics, I don’t think that’s fair. He was surrounded by lots of talent in Jacksonville: Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith, twin first-round wideouts Matt Jones and Reggie Williams, and a couple useful rotation-type players in Greg Jones and Ernest Wilford. He wasn’t asked to do much, but he still had a low completion %, a low YPA, and got sacked a lot.

McCown, on the other hand, has never had any talent around him when given the chance as a starter. In Oakland, his top wideouts were Ron Curry and Jerry Porter, and in Arizona, he did what he could with the talent that was on the offensive side of the ball, helping both Fitzgerald and Boldin to 1400+-yard seasons. Still, when your best RB option is Marcell Shipp, it’s hard to win games.

McCown’s a guy who I don’t think has shown his best in a good situation. Leftwich, however, is—as you’ve mentioned—injury-prone at this point, and I think his best times are behind him. His statistics have been on a steady decline since ’05.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leftwich is a pure back-up at this point

good for maybe a couple spot starts. He’s on the downside of his career. McCown just may only need another opportunity to show he can get it done. I was surprised he has had 31 starts

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha...

thank you for summarizing in one paragraph what I took four to do.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Poor McCown

Never had talent around him, but did the best he could only throwing to Boldin and Fitzgerald. What!#!? You could throw hand grenades to those 2 and they would catch them. Did you watch the playoffs this year?

When surrounded by talent Leftwich maintained a higher QB rating. Without talent Leftwich got sacked alot, but McCown threw interceptions. Which would you prefer?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 10, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ut ohhh

You got bleeped ST!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol... I guess subsequent punctuations is forbidden

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well of course he threw picks.

They knew he’d have to. It’s a lot easier not to force throws when your offense at least has the threat of handing off to a capable runner, of which Leftwich had two (Dunn and Norwood), even in his worst year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We all know ATL sucked that year

I can accept an occasional “of course he was sacked” about my starting QB, but “of course he threw picks” doesn’t cut it for me.

But then again our staring QB throws picks and gets sacked… eeek.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 10, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would you like the guy to do, dump it off in the flats to LaMont Jordan and LaMont McCoy every play?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would I like the guy to do?

Get my team some SuperBowl rings!

That way I can stop wearing this worn out 2003 NFC Championship T-shirt. I hate this thing… What it really says is “We were good… but not good enough”.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 10, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lofty standards, man, lofty...

And if 2nd place during that era went to the best team that didn’t cheat, I’ll take it.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 11, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody remembers 2nd place

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 11, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I bet they did spy on us prior to the game

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 11, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Must have only spied our running game

Because Jake had one of the best games of his career… And on the biggest stage. Dude is so unpredictable.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 11, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Patriots were known that year

for taking away what the opposition did best. We ran the ball the best, they took that away. Where I think they cheated is in the early minutes, where Delhomme couldn’t get a pass off because of the pressure.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 12, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they were stealing our defensive play calls

Not that I have any proof or anything, and I say this half-joking. I never thought such a thing at the time it happened but looking back Brady dissected our D like he knew what defense we were playing. But that could have just been good QB’ing.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 12, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

Brady is kinda known for good QB’ing (at least once or twice in his career). And the Panthers known for being predictable.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 12, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't matter anyways, the NFL is just covering it up.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 13, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you, southtunnel. I am surprised by that too. I can definitely see him starting for the Bucs. At 29, he could still have some good years left in him. I think last year was a good learning experience for him.

That being said, the Panther fan in me hopes he sucks.

by zrjohnso on Jun 9, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't crazy about the O-line and d-line rankings

but okay with the others. I think Otah and Wharton were underrated and Jamaal Brown overrated. I thought Kemo is underrated too considering what he is paid to do. The guy can occupy two blockers and still make a play. I completely disagree putting a rookie (Jerry) on the list when he hasn’t played a down. At this point last year Sedrick Ellis was next coming of Reggie White but he came down to earth in his rookie year. He’s a good player and could still be a PB but he didn’t necessarily dazzle like his pre-draft hype would command.

If asked I would say DL is the weakest position in the NFC South (hence the focus on it in the draft). But Ron Meeks might change that!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Brown's play might have dropped off...

But he was an All-Pro in his second year. I always wonder what our franchise would have looked like had NO not traded up and snagged him from us in ‘05. We certainly would have been better off during the devastating OL injuries of ’06, and we wouldn’t have been saddled with Thomas Davis, who really was a disappointment as he searched for a position early in his career. Would it have encouraged us to keep Will Witherspoon around in favor of, say Diggs, Kemo, or D-Lew? Would we have been able to retain Marlon McCree, who was never as good as he was here again?

Sed Ellis had a great year, particularly given that he had knee surgery early in the season and only missed three weeks when he certainly could have missed four times. It’s been a little while since we’ve had a guy who can push the pocket like he can (4 sacks in 13 games) and also hold up against the run.

Having just taken a look at the DL list for the first time, I do think it’s a little silly that Abraham is ranked ahead of Peppers. He doesn’t try all the time, but when he does, he can do SO much more than Abraham.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like Gaines Adams ranked as high as he is either.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kids a monster

He will be the best player for TB on that side of the ball soon. Great rookie season and all the physical skills. At least he played a year rather than speculation.

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 10, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Great?"

First, his rookie season was two years ago, and as an 8-game starter, he managed 6 sacks. Decent, but Charles Johnson had that without making a start last year. Further, Adams’ lack of improvement from year one to year two has to be a concern. He started all 16 games last year, but only had 6.5 sacks (.5 more.) He strikes me as the same kind of player as Jamaal Anderson, a guy with a lot of raw talent who may never harness it and produce on the NFL level.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The rookies don't realize

that brute strength or speed alone won’t get it done in the NFL. It’s all about technique and until they get that you are looking at a mediocre player, a starter but not a PBer that people expect from 1st rounders.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah....

But I’m a totally biased Clemson fan. Teams started blocking him more as the #1 DE on TB. I’m not going to let facts or stats get in the way of my argument as I believe that while he hasn’t picked up technique he needs to be a PBer, he will be awesome if he ever does learn (which could be said for a lot of guys, but Adams especially)

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 10, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't he go to Clemson because...

he had trouble learning! ;) har har. I kid I kid. I’m a GT grad which you may have not realized being new around here. Don’t worry, I give UGA and Gamecocks fans similar grief when I get the opportunity.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong

I loved Ellis after the Senior Bowl. He was a man among boys out there but the Panthers kept him pretty bottled up if my memory serves me right.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 9, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not so sure we would have drafted Brown anyway. Davis was an excellent prospect when we drafted him, considered the best tackler in the draft and the next Derrick Brooks. MP, I’m surprised you play the what if game.

by zrjohnso on Jun 9, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, he was our pick.

It was a done deal, but the Saints traded a third to move up three spots (one in front of us) to get him. Thomas Davis was a good prospect, sure, but he was probably more of a development type at #14 than you’d like given that he didn’t really play an NFL position in college, and that bore itself out as he struggled early. If you remember, the only really valuable role he played for us as a rookie was as a Mike Vick spy.

And I’m not really playing what if based on a question of our decision. We did what we had to do because NO forced our hand. It’s just interesting, to me, to wonder.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hardly a done deal

I know what the Saints did. I know they had a hunch that we would draft Brown. But that doesn’t make it a done deal. And you made a statement you can’t even prove. If we wanted a tackle so bad, why not draft Alex Barron?

And since when does a player search for his own position. The Panthers were a huge reason for his slow development, if you remember. :) If not I’m sure you’ll spend all day looking it up.

by zrjohnso on Jun 10, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I suppose you're right...

But IMO (and that of the media covering the team at the time), it was more than likely. And I didn’t say they wanted a tackle. They wanted Jamaal Brown.

And it’s not the Panthers’ fault Davis didn’t know or have experience at an NFL position. Having played the S/LB hybrid of “rover” at UGA, he couldn’t cover well enough to play safety, and he couldn’t read plays well enough from 4-7 yards off the as an LB (as opposed to the 10-12 of a safety/rover.)

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

And all the tackling in the world won’t get you to the ball, which Davis didn’t really know how to do in a structured NFL defense. He basically got to use his athleticism to find the ball and flow to it from 10+ yards off the line at UGA. Look at his college INT #s…he got to read plays from the secondary, but he didn’t have to stay in coverage much.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He didn’t know how to get to the ball? So he came to the NFL and forgot how to run? It’s amazing he starts for us today.

by zrjohnso on Jun 10, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reading is FUNdamental

He basically got to use his athleticism to find the ball and flow to it from 10+ yards off the line at UGA.

That is a different skill from either reading a pass coverage zone as a safety or finding the ball at the LoS as an LB.

Don’t know if you’ll need to “spend all day looking it up,” but he didn’t start for us as a rookie while he developed his play recognition and pursuit skills.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand where you are going with this, but...

You said he didn’t know how to get to the ball in the NFL. That doesn’t even make sense. How in the HELL can you make any argument about Davis and not talk about how the coaching staff bounced him around between safety and linebacker? At the beginning of the offseason he was working at linebacker, then they moved him to safety. His first game, he started at safety and was taken out by half time. Then eventually moved him to linebacker again. Could you not find that on your search engine? Obviously you don’t remember. All this has nothing to do with the Panthers wanting to draft him, even if Jamaal Brown was available.

MP, I know you really like sports blogging, and I enjoy reading most of your posts. But some of the stuff you say sounds like you are just trying too hard. I think you need to focus on quality and not quantity.

by zrjohnso on Jun 10, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol...It is truly the off-season...you guys are cracking me up

can we agree that TD belongs at WLB now? I always attributed TD’s problems simply coming from UGA. It takes Bulldogs a little longer to get it ;)…lol

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, I feel like you're not reading what I said...

And all the tackling in the world won’t get you to the ball, which Davis didn’t really know how to do in a structured NFL defense.

The staff HAD to bounce him around between safety and linebacker because, as a rookie, he had the skills of neither. The most successful he was was against Atlanta, when his responsibility was not to diagnose plays or find the ball through the trash, but simply to spy Vick. In that role, his athleticism alone allowed him to excel (as it did at UGA, where he was allowed to freelance because his talent allowed him to do so on that level), but he struggled—regardless of role—when asked to do more complicated things.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guys come on

TD was a good pick, he’s a good player, lets just accept that instead of wondering what could have been.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 11, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never said he wasn't.

But to deny that he wasn’t very good early on would be homerism at best.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 11, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree with you

the guy did seem a little biased towards the Falcons in a couple of his “predictions” – I mean, Babineaux being #3 on that same list?

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 9, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

whoops

that was supposed to be a ‘reply’ to Jaxon’s post

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 9, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Babineaux is a young, rising player...

And he’s a good value, too. Two years after Kemo got 23/5 just to stop the run, Babineaux signed for 25/5 in a more inflated market with the ability to stop the run AND rush the passer a bit.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 9, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just ranked Defensive Backs

With Gamble being number one. I wish PK would explain a bit more, I think Harris should be top 5.

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 10, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, Gamble is the only shutdown corner in the division?

High praise I’m not sure I agree with. Tied for 29th in 2008 with 3 INT’s. Yet I will say the 21 passes defensed is a nice number but only good for 15th in 2008.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 10, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The division isn’t that strong at corner but Gamble is definitely the most athletic and closest to shutdown as it gets. I don’t have the stats but I feel like Lucas was thrown to more often than Gamble, thus attributing to Gamble’s lower numbers in ints and pd’s. However, don’t tell me you forgot ALL the passes that seemed to bounce right of his and the other secondary player’s hands this season. It was so frustrating.

by pancanbra on Jun 10, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+2...always a step late

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 11, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Harris...

I guess I understand your reasoning behind wanting him that high, but in terms of talent as an overall safety, I do think he’s behind both Coleman and Harper, so that works for me.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way

He has more of an impact than either of the other two, he may not be the best in coverage, but he makes up for it with his great hits and run support.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 11, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coleman was a force in coverage and against the run for the Jets. Harper is young and getting better every year.

Harris, on the other hand, was frankly pretty disappointing last year after his great Carolina debut.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 11, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He got a lot of mileage from the forced fumbles

but they dried up after the Chicago game. He is good in run support but not so much in coverage.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 11, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's a strong safety

coverage isn’t a premium there, plus Harper struggles in coverage too from what I’ve heard. You say Coleman was a force for the Jets, was he a force last year on that sucky Atlanta defense? I’d take Chris Harris, his gamechanging plays, and intensity over Coleman and Harper.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 12, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cut Coleman some slack

Last season, there wasn’t going to be a player to single handedly solidify Atlanta’s defense. It just wasn’t going to happen. Coleman isn’t a superstar by any means, but he is dependable and solid. At 95 tackles 6PDs and 3 interceptions (one from our division’s own Drew Brees), he did everything you expect a safety to do. That’s a lot more than you can say for most of the players protecting the secondary in this division.

know what you believe in and why you believe in it

by MentallyMIA on Jun 12, 2009 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't think it's possible that Harper or Coleman "changed games" for their teams?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 12, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they did,

I didn’t see or hear about it. Definitely didn’t do anything notable in the games vs us.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 13, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that as well....

Gamble, shut down? Hes certainly got the skills for it but I’m wondering if 3 Ints will scare offensive coordinators into throwing the other way all the time. I think Marshall may surprise, I think hes worked hard at his game and plays with passion.

"Form is temporary, Class is permanent"

by CatRashFever on Jun 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think picks have EVER been the be-all and end-all for judging DBs...

Gamble didn’t get thrown at a ton, but between his picks and PDs (18!), he made a lot of plays when given the opportunity. Remember all the talk last year about how many picks we would have had if we hauled in all the deflections? Gamble was a big part of that.

And I think Marshall has a long way to go before he “surprises.” As much crap as Lucas got last year, Marshall was blowing coverages himself (although, gracefully, he had the integrity to say so, unlike one anointed-from-day-one rook in the secondary.)

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs