Na'il Diggs on misses Julius Peppers:
I personally miss the hell out of him because he’s right in front of me and he cause havoc and cleans things up in front for me.
5 months ago
LittleKing
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I don't see any importance to these kinds of statements at all.
Only players like Kris Jenkins are going to call their teammates out when they’re lazy or play without any heart, and we all saw how that worked out.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...they're not completely irrelevant...
It does show that Pep’s teammates on the defensive side of the ball, do still believe in him. Diggs doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who make that comment, elaborate on it with as many words as he chose to use, but secretly harbor ill feelings about Pep’s “lazy play”…
I think it’s legit. And that means he and Beason and anybody else on that front seven (and probably the secondary, too), actually do miss his presence and want him to return. And, if they feel that way in supporting him, it’s not necessarily all that different from how the offense rallies around Jake as their QB.
by NSpicer on Jun 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see it that way.
If they felt anything different, it’s just the responsible thing to say otherwise.
And Jake’s play is inspirational. Peppers inspires nothing.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll respectfully disagree then...
If Jake’s teammates can continue to support him even during his blow-up games…I think the defense can feel just as loyal and just as supportive of Peppers. And, in fact, it appears they do…from Beason to Diggs.
by NSpicer on Jun 4, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But during the "blow-ups..."
You know he’s at least trying.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MP you sound like a Pop Warner football mom. haha
by zrjohnso on Jun 5, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you rather I laud Peppers...
For his multi-sack games against teams like the Raiders and Chiefs during the handful of times he chooses to try over the course of the year?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, I didn't see it that way to begin with
Look at all the press and comments about Pep ‘taking plays off’. If Diggs felt that way too wouldn’t he be more likely to stay quiet on the topic? He instead declares an emphatic desire to have him back. I’m sure there is some ‘towing the company line’ to the statement but I think it says something given how he stated it. Just my opinion.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Jun 5, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point, which should not go overlooked
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Jun 5, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Peppers waiting for anyway?
Is it not a given that no one else will give him a contract and give up all those top tier draft picks? Why doesn’t he just take his huge deal and practice with the team so we can actually win a Super Bowl? Is he still holding out hopes that we trade him? Can we even trade him if he doesn’t sign a tender? It just seems to me that this is all just pouting from Peppers because he can’t play with the team he wants to. Him holding out is not going to solve the situation and I certainly doubt he will turn down over a million dollars per game so why not sign now and act like you care about winning the big one and not about your stats. I dunno, I’m kinda confused about the whole situation but it seems kind of selfish to me, or its just an awful bluff by Peppers. I mean, the real answer is he just doesn’t want to practice in the offseason and he can’t get fined by the team if he doesn’t sign the contract, but is that not showing to all of his teammates (like Diggs) that he doesn’t give a damn about them or their team chemistry?
by pancanbra on Jun 7, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A. No, he cannot be traded until he signs his tender.
B. If he practices and gets hurt, he loses all of his money for the year.
C. You’re absolutely right, he’s selfish, but what about his “play hard when I feel like it” stance throughout his career has shown you you should be surprised by that?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 7, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a bit confused by your B. Now I’m not extremely knowledgable about the finer points to NFL contracts and I’m too lazy to look it up myself, but is there no guaranteed money in a franchise tender? And if not, is the player not protected by some sort of football related injury clause that would allow him to receive part of his salary? If the answer is no to both points then I guess I can’t really blame him for not signing the contract until the season starts. However, if he would still get paid despite a freak injury then he and his agent are being huge babies about the whole thing. Him pouting and sitting out of practices shows a complete lack of commitment to the team.
Most players are sympathetic to their teammates in hold-out situations because usually the player feels like he deserves more money and his teammates usually agree and would want support if they themselves wanted more money. But this contract has nothing to do with money because he would be getting a fat paycheck each week so how can his teammates still support him when he has completely turned his back on them? i.e. saying that he does not want to play for Carolina, feels like he would play better elsewhere, and staying home while his teammates work in the heat during practices actually trying to get better so they can win a Super Bowl.
by pancanbra on Jun 7, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wouldn't lose the money
…if he signed his contract before he practiced.
by meanoreno on Jun 7, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he would lose the money...
…he’d earn beyond this season by negotiating a new contract as a free agent (assuming his injury turned out to be career-threatening).
And, in all honesty, this isn’t about Peppers holding out for more money right now. It’s a player not showing up for “voluntary” workouts or anything else he isn’t contractually obligated to do. There are plenty of players who do this…and it’s not selfishly holding out for more money that motivates them.
Look at it from Peppers’ perspective. By not reporting to these OTAs (or even not showing up for training camp):
1) He avoids any risk of injuring himself (short-term or long-term).
2) He stays fresher for the rest of the season particularly if he holds out through the entire preseason schedule.
3) Because of those first two things (and the fact that he keeps himself in top shape throughout the offseason anyway), he’s probably primed to play his best football in a long while. That sets him up to attract the eyes of other teams who might want to trade for him…or offer him a contract when he becomes a UFA again at the end of this season.
Now there are also some serious drawbacks to that strategy:
1) He doesn’t get as many reps and a chance to learn the new defensive scheme under Ron Meeks.
2) He risks off-putting his fellow teammates.
3) He risks further alienating Panther fans.
But those last two items probably don’t concern him that much, especially since he’s already stated he won’t sign a long-term contract in Carolina again. That means he’s already planning on leaving his current teammates and the Panther fans behind. So, no major worries in ticking those folks off. No matter how much we might wish otherwise, Peppers has entered that awkward phase where football becomes more of a business than a game. And, until he gets his contract situation worked out…and by that, I mean the contract he wants, not the one the Panthers offered under the franchise tag tender…he’s perfectly within his rights, and probably his best interests, not to report to the OTAs or training camp.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Jun 7, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
..."he stays fresher for the season?"
Is being too tired from coming to OTAs really a typical complaint of NFL players? Couldn’t this, too, lead to issues with him not being in good football shape? Michael Strahan had a lot of trouble getting started after his holdout, and this is not the season where we need our highest-paid player coming out of the gates slowly with the way our schedule opens up.
And by the way, training camp is not voluntary, in theory or otherwise.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
Many NFL players have cited that skipping training camp and especially the preseason games, allows them to be fresher for the regular season. That, and the risk of injuries, is part of the reason there’s discussion about trimming the preseason down to just 2 games and using the other 2 to extend the regular season instead.
OTAs are certainly voluntary. I don’t think Peppers would wear himself out participating in them. But he also keeps himself in good enough shape during the off-season that he’s not going to gain much by being there…other than an early exposure to the new defensive scheme implemented by Meeks.
And training camp is voluntary for Peppers. As long as he doesn’t sign the franchise tag tender, he can skip training camp altogether and then sign it and show up on opening day to play. He doesn’t even have to sign the tender until over midway through the season if he doesn’t want to…i.e., he needs to play 6 games to maintain his free agent status for next year.
But look, I’m with you. I’m not arguing anything here. I’m just trying to state what I believe is Peppers viewpoint on the situation. Personally, I think he ought to be out there busting his butt with his fellow teammates, too. I think his participation would benefit the team…and him, too…considering Meeks probably has a lot he can teach Peppers with his track record developing speed-rushing DEs.
But I don’t think Pep is viewing it that way, because he’s already planning on leaving us. Hence, I think Peppers is biding his time. He’s sitting out OTAs since they’re voluntary. That lets him avoid injury. And it also lets him avoid signing the tender until later. I suspect he may skip all or part of training camp by refusing to sign the tender, too. That also lets him avoid injury…and I certainly believe that keeps him fresher for the season. Then, I think he signs the tender and plays the full season for us. He keeps his free agent status and this whole thing recycles for us during next year’s off-season.
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TC isn't voluntary...
He gets fined for every day there’s a contract extended and he’s not there, whether he’s signed it or not.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is a fine...
…out of nearly $17 million when he eventually signs the tender going to be sizeable enough to incent him to show up to training camp? He’s got money to burn in that regard. So I still advocate that Peppers would view training camp as “voluntary” regardless.
However, I still think he’ll show for training camp. If he’s working out in Arizona, it’s probably for a purpose. And that means he intends on coming back to play in top-shape. He also knows he won’t see much action in the preseason games anyway…so his injury risk is already minimized there. And he’ll probably attend training camp to a) avoid whatever fine would be imposed, and b) use those weeks and scrimmages to familiarize himself enough with Meeks’ system to make the best use of it during the season.
Essentially, no matter what happens, Julius needs to play this season (for himself and not just the Panthers) and play well (to make himself as attractive as possible to teams interested in bidding for his services as a free agent). Both of those factors play to the Panthers’ favor.
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends...
Michael Strahan’s holdout cost him more than $500K when he came back six days before the opener, and the fine has gone up since.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would think...
if he was going to give Meeks system a chance that he would show up for OTA’s. That kind of says to me that he doesn’t care what Meeks has to offer. I will say at this point it could still be him holding out hope the Panthers move him somehow…but the ball is in his court. Until he signs the tender he is in a self-imposed purgatory and only his agent can get him out of it. Not much of this situation makes sense right now but hopefully he will sign shortly before TC and give Meeks a chance to give him the showcase of his talent he seems to be searching for.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Jun 8, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure...
He sat out the OTAs last year while working out in Arizona, too, right? And he probably feels that proved successful for him…i.e., the turnaround from 2.5 sacks to 14.5. So, he probably feels like he gets more out of his personal training regimen out there than participating in the OTAs.
And that doesn’t mean he can’t still come in for training camp and preseason to pick up Meeks’ defensive scheme. As a veteran, you would assume he’d pick it up faster than a rookie anyway. This move also keeps everyone guessing about his status and his name in the media (but not necessarily in a good way). Maybe he and his agent see something positive in that for them? Who knows?
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he did not...
He showed up to help learn RE in our defense.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=408010
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He missed something last year...
…was it just the team’s off-season workout program? I remember the media making something of a flap over him not being around…and some questioning about him working out in Arizona by himself.
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh...I found it...
He missed the Panther’s voluntary off-season conditioning program while training out in Arizona.
http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/2008/03/tracking-julius.html
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That article references mini-camp not OTAs. If you read through these posts, it talks about him at the OTAs.
by zrjohnso on Jun 8, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
…he would lose money from a future contract if he had a bad enough injury, but that could happen in the regular season as well…
I wonder what the stats are for players who miss training camp then get injured in the regular season. I wonder if attending training camp actually reduces the risk of injuries during the season. I read an article on Chad Johnson the other day and he contributed his injury plagued season with the fact he missed camp and didn’t do any other training.
by meanoreno on Jun 7, 2009 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty confident in saying that even though Peppers is missing OTAs and may miss training camp, I doubt he will come in out of shape. He’s training somewhere (Arizona?) if not with the Panthers. If he doesn’t sign the contract after the first two weeks of training camp, I personally will start to get worried. But considering he is an experience vet and the new system is a simplified defense, I think he can get away with not attending summer school and part of training camp.
by zrjohnso on Jun 7, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
…in that it has been reported that Peppers is doing some training in Arizona. He seems to go there every year to do his training. Too bad the Cards weren’t one of his teams on his list. The Cards could really use a DE capable of getting them some sacks. The Cards also have two players the Panthers could use, both are asking to be traded right now. They are DT Dockett and WR Boldin. The Panthers could use both these players. Dockett was a pro bowler in 2007 when he had 58 tackles and 9 sacks. But like I said, too bad the Cards weren’t on Pep’s list and that the Cards weren’t crazy enough to trade both these players for Pep.
“Darnell Dockett has demanded a trade after the Cardinals refused to give him more money. Nothing is certain at this point, but it looks like he’s gone.”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/177246-the-arizona-cardinals-d-line-in-transition-darnell-dockett-wants-out
“Boldin, who has been at odds with the team regarding his contract and had expressed a desire to be traded, did not attend Wednesday’s voluntary organized team activities at the club’s Tempe training facility, and coach Ken Whisenhunt said it was unclear whether anything has changed.”
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/05/27/20090527cards0528.html
by meanoreno on Jun 7, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Peppers pretty much always comes in ready to play. He showed up last year after training in Arizona in the best shape of his life. That…and a cupcake schedule…helped him go from 2.5 sacks the previous year to 14.5 last season. If he’s training in Arizona again this year, I think it’s because he’s focused on being in that kind of shape again. And I believe he wants to put up similar numbers against stiffer competition this season so he can justify the value he and his agent are trying to convince other teams to place on him.
And frankly, that is the single-most reason it’s beneficial to the Panthers to have him play for us this year. Well, that and the fact that we don’t have a Pro-Bowl DE to take up his slack if he’s gone…
As for the losing the money from a future contract if he had an injury in the regular season as well…I think that’s legitimate. But, by skipping training camp and the preseason, at least trims down his opportunities to suffer such an injury by 4 games (or less, depending on how many quarters the starters play). Preseason games and training camp can be dicey anyway. You’ve usually got some young guns trying desperately to earn a roster spot (on your own team as well as those of your preseason opponents). So, avoiding that whole scene is probably in Peppers best interests…again, as long as he doesn’t have to be there, contractually. And, until he signs the tender, he doesn’t.
by NSpicer on Jun 8, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see Peppers stance
He signed a contract, played it out, did everything we expected, and now he wants to leave. I’ve heard this analogy someplace else. If you signed a contract someplace, then your contract expired and you wanted to leave, would you be mad if you were tagged and kept? Now this doesn’t mean I like what Peppers is doing, I’d love nothing more than for him to stay (which I think eventually will be the case), but if he leaves, so be it.
by Flowing Willow on Jun 8, 2009 4:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that simple...
Peppers, through being a member of the Players’ Union, is not exactly having something unprecedented forced upon him. That was a collectively bargained tool given by the players to the teams. There were no fewer than 13 other players this offseason who were tagged, and one of those (Terrell Suggs) had the exclusive tag used, so he didn’t even get the opportunity to talk to other teams. Further, there is no chance Peppers would have been able to get an offer in which he was paid $17 million in any one year, so it’s not like there’s no disincentive for him. If he brings down his contract demands, he can leave. Unfortunately for him, though, teams know he’s not worth the draft picks AND the compensation it’ll cost for him to get an offer.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is exactly what it boils down to
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Jun 8, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some contract rules favor the team
….while others favor the player. In the end, they even out. I could see how players don’t like the fact that after they played all the years in their contract, that a team could still tag them taking away their ability to be a FA. I could also see how a team don’t like paying out guaranteed money even if that player ends up stinking.
Say Matt Stafford ended up like another Leaf, or gets injured all the time to where the Lions feel he’s not worth the roster spot,, the Lions still have to pay him over 41 million dollars. I can’t think of any other job besides sports, where an employee would receive the same.
“At that rate, the team will need to sell 521,250 of them to recoup the $41.7 million they gave Stafford in guaranteed money as part of his six-year, $78 million contract after drafting him first overall in this past weekend’s NFL draft.”
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090427/FREE/904279960
Say Peppers finally signs a big fat new contract for a 100 million, with 40 to 50 million in guaranteed money. Then say Peppers stops and thinks about it, deciding that 40 to 50 million guaranteed is plenty enough for him to live off for the rest of his life and now all he needs is to keep his health to enjoy it more. Now needing to stay healthy, he decides to put it in cruise control for the rest of his career. Now say the Panthers decide after a year or two with Peppers playing like he did in 2007, that he isn’t worth his salary and guaranteed bonus money, so they decide to cut him. Peppers leaves a very rich man and the Panthers hurt with their salary cap for years to come. This type of scenario plays out all the time in the NFL. Would you consider this fair to the employer?
by meanoreno on Jun 9, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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