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Is Peppers Return to Panthers His Worst Case Scenario?

With the rumor that the Panthers are working on a long-term deal with DE Julius Peppers I can’t help but wonder why did we have to take such an exhaustive path just to get to the same place we were a year ago? It was this time last year that Peppers rejected a long-term deal from the only team he has known though it wasn’t considered a big deal at the time. I assumed it was simply posturing for a better deal. Based on Peppers subsequent statements after the 2008 season I believed him that it wasn’t about the money, that he really wanted a change of scenery, that he wanted a new defensive coaching staff and that he wants to realize his potential. Now I’m wondering if it really wasn’t all about the money.

For Peppers to change his scenery it was not only going to cost another team a ton of money but also several high draft picks. The jury is back and the verdict is in and Pep has essentially been sentenced to Charlotte for another year. Not a single team on his preferred list cared about being on the list. I bet not a single NFL team would have been willing to pay Peppers price, except the Panthers. So the pendulum swings.

Star-divide

The Panthers in the meanwhile changed the defensive coaching staff. They ditched the older white guys (Trgovac, Sunseri) for some high energy black guys (Meeks, Baker). I only mention their race because it may improve Pep’s relationship with the team if he instead works with some guys who can relate to him better. There is still the opportunity for a personality clash with Baker or Meeks but I’m thinking the chances are these guys get along famously. My money is that the "I need a better scheme" argument goes away by the end of the preseason.

So that leaves us with the "reaching his potential" argument. I think one side of that equation is solved with the new staff. The other side has to come from Peppers himself. Without going all Dr. Phil on you I think the Panthers have done their part in removing any excuses Pep may have been using for his lack of potential realization. Maybe the expectations are too high one might argue? Outside of a certain vocal segment, most fans are happy to have Peppers back (82% per my recent poll). So it really boils down to his own expectations of himself which only he can solve. Going to another team would not have solved that problem, which he would have quickly realized.    

Finally I find myself referring to my Open Letter to Peppers back on April 2nd where I laid out what I thought Pep would need to do to properly rejoin the Panther family if his big plans got muffed. Turns out I was pretty close:

So if you still insist on this course of action then all I ask of you on behalf of my fellow fans is two things. First, if you are still a Panther after the draft that you sign a 2 or 3 year deal of mostly guaranteed money that allows the Panthers some cap space. By not being traded it shows that you are either not the hot commodity you thought you were or your agent is a dolt who should be fired. Maybe he can work the deal he should have told you to sign last year.

Second, that you start a conciliatory tone with the team and fans in order to minimize the sure distraction this whole event will cause on the team...and you know...not cripple us through the entire season. If you come back and have a big year and then get traded next offseason it will be easier to swallow.

So in my view what may have been a worst case scenario for Peppers a year ago will in fact be the best that could have happened. If he ends up with more money he can thank Albert Haynesworth and his phat Redskins deal. He can thank John Fox for bringing in talented replacements for the departed defensive coaches. He can thank a forgiving fan base that will welcome him back in spite of his dividing comments. He can thank his agent Carl Carey for...all that positive publicity? (Ha!) Finally with regards to realizing his awesome potential...well that part is up to him.

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Nice read.

Peppers is still an enigma so its hard to predict how he will perform this year. Hopefully with new coaches and schemes on defense this will help him to feel happier in reaching his potential. Alot of that still falls on his shoulders and maybe his half hearted efforts were due to him being the only force on defense for awhile(atleast on the line) and he just came to a point where he felt why give 100% when no one else does. If Brown turns out to be the pass rushing specialist they hope for, that should provide an extra incentive for Peppers to perform. For whatever its worth Im glad he’s here, he’s a guy that other offenses still have to plan for even it he does take plays off.

by D.W.G. on Jun 30, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Strong. I like it.

The Peppers enigma. I wish some people could hook up with his old high school or college buddies and get some details on “what this guy wants”. Bailey NC is just 45 minutes from my house. One of my friends grew up in Bailey, before Julius’s time, but still. We ought to call in Michael Moore to do a movie on him, do some investigative journalism.

My random, unresearched thoughts (better say that first before the data police get me).
1. He’s shy. Duh.
2. He prefers basketball.
3. He misses the college environment of fan adulation for his unique skills.
4. Conversely, the professional environment of high expectations is unpleasant to him.
5. He lacks maturity to realize he’s a multi-millionaire for playing a kid’s game, and the rarity of that. He doesn’t fully appreciate his good genetic luck. He was born into a lottery ticket. Pretty nice.
6. His agent is really, really clumsy.

I do admire he’s tried to limit what he says. That’s smart (or natural for him) and he didn’t strongly alienate himself. Most guys do, he didn’t. Lance Briggs came back and played and said worse. Pete Kendall was pretty abrasive, and he got out. Julius kept it minimalist (I know he said some dumb things up front, but he shut up after that), which was the right thing to do.

I read your comment about Meeks with interest. Do you think he needs more mentoring? (fathering?) He seems to have emotionally declined with Rucker and Minter gone.

by Barbados on Jun 30, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think...

…the Peppers situation boils to a lot of different variables.

What Peppers Wanted:
1) More Money - Let’s face it, he wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. The Panthers offered that to him. But, in and of itself, the money wasn’t enough. He wanted some other things, too.
2) Reduced Expectations - Pep was probably feeling the pressure to do it all. And that’s never a good place to be. Perhaps doubly-so for someone quiet and reserved as Peppers? The owner publicly asked him to step up and assume a leadership role that he isn’t suited for. The media and fan-base heavily scrutinized his disappearing act when he only amassed 2.5 sacks. I think Peppers would have preferred to join a team with a few other defensive stars and supporters where he wouldn’t have to be a leader…and where their production would enhance his own.
3) Better Scheme - The vaunted Carolina defense ain’t what it used to be. I think Pep recognized that. With the departure (or wearing down) of Rucker and Minter (and a few others…Dan Morgan, maybe?)…and whatever scheme that Fox and Trgovac had going…just creates an atmosphere where Peppers probably felt like his job wasn’t going to improve any further. We also hadn’t shown much activity in improving our defensive line (through the draft or free agency) in a way that brought Peppers any major help. And yet, the scheme remained mostly the same. He probably looked around the league and saw some of the better defenses and their schemes and started thinking the grass was so much greener over there.
4) Reaching His Potential - Everyone agrees that Julius Peppers is a freak of nature. The guy is one amazing athlete. He made a splash early in his career, but he’s mostly rode that reputation during these “down” years where our defense has declined. He probably doesn’t view that as so much his fault as just a situation that’s come to pass which he wanted out of…so he could otherwise maximize his potential. And again, he probably saw what other coaches were doing on defense on more successful teams and felt like he could be a part of that and maybe put together a Hall of Fame type career.
5) A New Start - In his statements, Peppers pointed out he’s always played here in North Carolina…whether that’s high school, college, or the pros. And I think he probably wondered what it would be like to play somewhere else. He finally reached a point in his career (and his contract situation) where he could explore that if he wanted. And I think he saw nothing wrong with trying out something different.

So that’s a handful of things that I believe motivated Peppers to do what he initially did.

What Happened:
1) The Jordan Gross Deal - The contract negotiations with Gross got worked out soon enough that gave us flexibility in how to deal with Peppers.
2) The Franchise Tag - Carolina had a franchise tag available that they could assign to Peppers…and every reason in the world to do so in order to maximize their opportunity to get value for him rather than just watching him walk out the door.
3) No Interested Trade Partners - Peppers’ agent presumably shopped him around to the teams and defenses that interested him. But, none were willing to pay the steep price to acquire him…assuming they had any interest at all.
4) Coaching Staff Departures - Practically the entire defensive coaching staff for the Panthers got turned over, bringing new philosophies and approaches to the scheme.
5) The Draft - The Panthers drafted some folks capable of immediately helping the defense…and particularly the defensive line.
6) Early Feedback From Mini-camp and the OTAs - Positive vibes come up about Ron Meeks’ new scheme and philosophy. Several players publicly comment that Peppers would really like the new approach.

Wit that, I think many of the things Peppers originally wanted either wound up being out of reach (i.e., he couldn’t get the money deal he wanted with anyone but us)…or things changed with the Panthers such that the things he wanted were suddenly here…and not where he thought the grass would be greener. He also needed to maintain his free agent status so he can do all this over again next year. So, he came in and had some discussions with members of the Panther brass that he respects a lot (maybe even Mr. Richardson himself?). And ultimately, he signed the tender.

That brings us to now. Peppers will play. He’s avoided the whole media flap over whether he’ll be in camp or not. He’ll get to absorb Meeks’ new scheme. He’ll be paid an obscene amount of money for a 1-year stint. And he gets to showcase what he can do for any prospective bidders in the event that he still can’t (or won’t) work out a long-term deal with Carolina.

Meanwhile, we get the most out of the siutation we could have hoped for as well. Peppers gives us a good DE that can (and will) start right away. It means we still have 21 of 22 starters returning. It gives us time to develop Everette Brown as his eventual successor, or…if Peppers signs a long-term deal and stays…a great complement on the other side of the ball. We should also have our franchise tag available to put on him again next year so we can either keep him again (and overpay him about the same as we would have with guaranteed money on a 2-year contract)…or so we can trade him and hopefully get a few more interested parties to line up and bid for him.

All in all, this could have played out MUCH more horrendously than it did. This is about as good an outcome as we could have wished for as fans of the team. But we won’t know the final returns until we see how Peppers performs this season. Hopefully, he’s got time and mentality to focus on preparing for it.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Jun 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Great post Neil and you to Jaxon.

This is just a very strange set of circumstances. I really don’t know what Pep’s motive is here. This is really probably one of the strangest contract negotiations the team has ever gone through. I would like to see him signed to a long term deal, but only b/c he wants to be here, not b/c of money or b/c he doesn’t have a choice.

Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader

by Ivan459 on Jun 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing I will say...

He might have a better handle on the potential FA market next year than we do and his services might be in higher demand depending on cap situations or an uncapped year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If he doesn't sign LT now

Lets hope there is communication and he signs the franchise tender early and allows the Panthers to work the deal.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 30, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Hopefully he and his agent learned from their experience this time around. The hard part about moving Peppers if we don’t sign him, though, is that most teams prefer a known contract number for a guy rather than trading for someone they’ll then have to negotiate a new deal with…

by NSpicer on Jun 30, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, sign a 3 year deal now

and then request a trade next off season. He can always renegotiate the contract once he gets over to the team (or hold out I guess).

I wonder:
- Did Carey over estimate pep’s worth or
- Under estimate the Panthers resolve to keep him?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 30, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably both...

…and they may have assumed the Panthers wouldn’t be able to work out a deal with Gross and the franchise tag would be used on him instead.

by NSpicer on Jun 30, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would like to keep peppers long term but I am fine If the Panthers choose not to

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jun 30, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who cares what he wants

of course we want him back he is our best player on defense, and he even said he was fine with playing another year. It doesn’t matter if he is lying or not hes going to play his hardest so he can get a good deal for the next season if he stays in carolina or not

by onlypantherfanintown on Jun 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think there is a lot more to this story than which hit the press.

Firing a good bit of our defensive coaching staff does make you wonder. I’m interested to see how long it will take to sign Julius Peppers. If he does take a 3 or 4 year deal, I’d think that he’d be here for good. We have a short window to make a run at the Super Bowl, with Jake Delhomme, Steve Smith, Julius Peppers, Moose, and a lot of our other key players getting older.

With the changes on the defensive staff, something along the line had to have placated Peppers to the point where he is going to play football. Whether he thought the defense could be better than it was last year thanks to the coaching staff, or his agent had a talk with him to get him to sign the tender, something along the line gave in his reasoning. We won’t find out till he signs a extension or he restarts the trade talk next year.

Bottom line, Julius Peppers is about 3/4ths of our pass rush until someone else on the D-Line shows us otherwise. I would love to see him signed to a large contract and for us to keep him till he retires. This trade situation will fade to the backround in a year or so after he signs an extension, but Julius Peppers has the freakish size and skill to play till he’s 35 and beyond.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jun 30, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There is more to it than has been stated for sure

but I think it was mostly about Mike T leaving than anything else.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 30, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We didn't fire any of our coaches.

All of their contracts were up.

And you need more than size and skill to have a long career. Desire is an important part of it.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might as well been a firing.

Coaching contracts are only good for 2-3 years anyway.

And though people question his desire, Julius Peppers had 14.5 sacks worth of desire last year. That’s 14.5 sacks less than we had before Peppers. I’ll take that.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jun 30, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A firing would have been entirely our choice...

Some of these guys were offered the chance to come back and chose to take other deals. In fact, Trgovac took a pay cut and a demotion from what we offered him.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And as for Peppers' desire...

Hard to say we couldn’t have made up some of those sacks if he’s not on the team.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at his career stats, I wonder if we are too hard on the guy

Every player has down games… especially when you are a star and OCs game plan around you. And 2007 was really his only bad year. Smitty has many games with few yards and no scores, but nobody holds that against him.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 30, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Smith has never been paid as much as Pep has the last few seasons...

And Smith’s performance has many more factors (QB play, line protection, etc.)

Also, Smith was at 70 yards or better 12 of 14 games last year (and 21 of the last 31 Jake has started.) That’s pretty damned good.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not knockin Smitty at all!

Just wonderign why we are SOOO hard on Pep. The guy’s been impressive! And we would not be better without him.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to say.

All the cap space he takes would be spent elsewhere.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 30, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll tell you why

(a)-Some say he takes plays off, I can believe that, but I don’t believe he takes off as many as we give him credit for.

(b)-His huge salary, for a game-changer, you pay that, we are renegotiating anyway. If he wasn’t worth it, we wouldn’t pay it.

©-His lack of fire, some people think he is too passive, that’s just who he is, he isn’t a ball of flames like Beason or Harris.

(d)-The final reason, the fact he wanted out of Carolina. That stings a lot of us, more than we let on. We are a very unforgiving fan base, just ask Jake and Fox. Most of the hate directed towards him is mostly spite, at least, it seems like it. I don’t remember much Peppers-hate going on before this whole situation started.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 1, 2009 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unforgiving fanbase?

Yah, maybe. I got friends in Philly who hate McNabb for virtually no reason, viciously, relentlessly (he’s only taken Philly to 4 NFC Championships and superbowl). If Pep talks nice (in a conciliatory manner), I can be 80% of fans will forget about it. His key need is to realize he’s 30 (almost), take the big contract from the team who loves him (beyond his market value maybe?) and be a star. To be fair though, McNabb is a bit of a whiner, so other than his ability, he loses respect for his whining. JP has never whined. I give him credit.

One more thing JP did not say, that could “REALLY” be the reason. He may want the Hall of Fame. Truth be told, large market teams have more chance of their players making it than do small market teams.

by Barbados on Jul 1, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you end up with HoF numbers, you'll make the Hall

With the talent he has, Peppers has no excuse to even end up a borderline candidate.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 1, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can't hold his salary against him.

That’s perfectly normal to get as much as you can. That should make you mad at the staff not Pep.

Also very few players have that Smitty or Beason like fire. But I don’t hear us complaining about Kemoeatu, or Jeff King’s lack of fire. It’s like since Pep is sooo talented, he has more of a responsibility to be fired up all the time. Seems unfair.

I can understand being upset about him wanting out of Carolina. Fans feel abandoned. But I remember Pep-hate starting early in 2007, due to his low performance.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 1, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kemo and King definitely show they care.

Kemo is often a guy who is pumping up the crowd when he’s not in the game.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but you gotta account for personality.

“Don’t care” and shy personality are different things. Do we truly have evidence that Pep “doesn’t care”? Honestly we can see is under-performing play at times, but you can’t really make the man a vocal leader, been tried and failed – not his personality, never will be.

My only beef – similar to all fans – is here you have this Greek god of a human specimen, and he is the most well-trained, well-fed, well-compensated, elite athletes on any field in any sport. He has a minuscule 10-year window to practice his great talent before he just becomes another stooge with an aging, arthritic body. My beef is, it’s a sin against himself and the sport when a TE blocks him one on one. That should not happen.

by Barbados on Jul 2, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They're caring doesn't make them better than Pep

My point was also that he even with occasional no-show games, he is still better than everyone else. Charles Johnson and probably Everette Brown can get out there work their tails off every down this year, and will still fall short of Pep.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 5, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you can count on them.

Do we just have to construct a team that has to counter for the fact that its highest-paid player only plays hard when he wants to? That sure makes it hard on a team’s GM.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MP - You got stats on everything

Is there a stat by which we could look at JP’s hottest games, his middle games, and his vacation games and figure out which games or types of games he slows down?

Like it would be interesting to know if he is hotter on division games than games against AFC teams, etc. Is he better against weak teams or strong teams? That kind of thing. I know Yahoo! does some kind of splits, but how to tell if there is a trend to his vacation games?

by Barbados on Jul 1, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting numbers:

Overall career: 3.3 tackles/gm, .68 sacks/gm (If you want, I’ll delve into stuff like FFs and PDs, but they’re a lot more fluky than the two primary ones)

Home: 3.2 tackles/gm, .65 sacks/gm
Away: 3.5 tackles/gm, .72 sacks/gm
So maybe his (slightly) inferior performance at home is another reason he gets a hard time from the fanbase.

Day: 3.3 tackles/gm, .69 sacks/gm
Night: 3.8/.65
So perhaps he’s more active in primetime games, but he doesn’t get the same results since the opponent is more of a marquee team?

Grass: 3.4/.66
Turf: 3.3/.76
I’m surprised with his speed and athleticism that his numbers aren’t better on turf, but I suppose QBs might be aided in getting rid of the ball because of the added separation receivers can get.

Windy: 3.6/.8
Obviously, QBs might hold the ball longer if they know they have to make a perfect throw, and the tackles are probably increased because of increased runs.

Warm (61 and above): 3.4/.61
Cold (60 and below): 3.4/.80

Don’t really know how to explain this one other than the perfect throw concept like with the wind.

Games 1-8: 3.5/.58
Games 9-16: 3.1/.81
Interesting to see that his sacks go so high at the end of the season.

Best tackle month is October by far (3.6), best sack month is November (1.0!)

Intra-divisional: 3.1/.60
vs. NFC outside of division: 3.5/.78
vs. AFC: 3.4/.66
So there’s some splits that lend credence to the fact that he doesn’t come up big in the most important game. Could also be, though, that the teams he faces most often have better-developed plans to stop him.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 1, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to agree.

I saw alot of those stats earlier. I got the impression he does alot better against Detroit and Oakland – but so does everybody. The OC’s game-plan him as well. He does better outside the division because I imagine every OT in the division has their own JP DVD. Outsiders who play him less, know him less.

I love to watch him during his “on” games, get disgusted watching his “off” games. Playoff caliber teams seem to handle him really very well. Also – he’s played Philly three times and zero sacks. Philly is game one for 2009. He’s got to break that streak. I hope Everette Brown is rolling by then. Charles Johnson is trending up strongly too. So it could be interesting having a pass-rusher opposite him like when Rucker was there. We’ll see.

by Barbados on Jul 1, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have thought his numbers were better in-division

but guess not. MP, you should cut and paste this data and make it a separate post. There’s something more to talk about I believe. Nov his best month? Would prefer Dec & Jan!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 2, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call Southy

Every time the JP argument comes up, I go to the stats websites and figure out how much he’s doggin’ it. You know what? Statistically, he’s in the top-5, top-3 DEs for the last 5 years even WITH 2007. I look up Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, John Abraham, and others, and they ALL have their down years. Pep is arguably top-3 for this decade. He’s not going to get 15 sacks every year. Also, he draws blockers so that other guys get sacks. All the good DEs do.

Counterpoint: It’s no secret this guy has different speeds for mysterious reasons. We see him blowing up a triple-team block one game, batting a pass and catching it, and forcing two fumbles. The next game a tight-end is blocking him and holding him steady in place. What gives?

Statistically, he’s up there and has some enormous games. But game after game, the man is confounding.

by Barbados on Jul 1, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have way too much time on my hands (a vacation day)

Pep’s per-game stats…

Per Game Averages (divided by #games played)

Top-5 Tackling
 vs Oakland 5.5
 vs Baltimore 4.5
 vs St.Louis 4.5
 vs Green Bay 4.2
 vs Arizona 4.0

Top-5 Sacks
 vs Oakland 2.5
 vs Dallas 1.8
 vs Detroit 1.8
 vs NY Jets 1.5
 vs Kansas City 1.5

Top-5 Forced Fumbles
 vs Oakland 1.0
 vs NY Jets 1.0
 vs Kansas City 1.0
 vs Arizona 0.8
 vs Detroit 0.8

No Sacks Ever Games Played
 vs Cincinnati 1
 vs Denver 1
 vs Miami 1
 vs Houston 2
 vs Philadelphia 3
 vs Chicago 2
 vs San Diego 2
 vs Seattle 2
 vs Pittsburgh 1
 vs Washington 2
 vs Indianapolis 2
 vs New England 1

Per Game averages
’————-Tkls——Sacks—F-Fumbs
Career——-3.4——-0.7——-0.3
Last 3 yrs—-3.0——-0.6——-0.3
2008———-3.4——-1.0——-0.4

Better get my chores done now. Lawn ain’t gonna mow itself.

by Barbados on Jul 1, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The no sacks against Philly stands out

Maybe he can change that game 1

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 2, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Philly historically has had a pro-bowl OL. Smart organization.

I will so be pulling for him to sack McNabb mercilessly. I would love to see 3 sacks and a forced fumble in that game. September 30, 2007 McNabb was sacked 12 times versus the Giants. He regularly picks up just under 3 sacks a game. Julius needs a big prize like that. He needs to set the record straight, I say.

by Barbados on Jul 2, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drop the Race Comments

Jaxon said, “They ditched the older white guys (Trgovac, Sunseri) for some high energy black guys (Meeks, Baker). I only mention their race because it may improve Pep’s relationship with the team if he instead works with some guys who can relate to him better.” You could’ve still gotten your point across without the race comment.

Neil, good analysis.

by Mac_357 on Jul 1, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ABOUT YOUR COMMENT

MY MAN I AGREE WITH YOU THERE DUDE I’M BLACK AND I WAS VERY OFFENDED BY THAT.WE CAN RESPECT AND WORK FOR OTHER RACES AS WELL IT’S NOT AN EPISODE OF AIR PLANE WITH LESLIE NELSON WHERE ONLY BLACKS SPEAK JIVE AND YOU HAVE THIS ONE WHITE LADY OUT THE WHOLE BUNCH THAT SPOKE IT FLUENTLY LOL PERSONALLY I FOUND THAT A LIL RACIST TO POST

by PAPA GRANDE on Jul 1, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you are saying that if Peppers and Meeks get along well that it will...

have absolutely nothing to do with race? I was not suggesting that since both are black that they will certainly get along, only that it might help. I still think its relevant because Peppers seems to have issues with management just as Jenkins did.

Its very similar in baseball with the latinos. Whom does a new Latino player on a team seek out but those who speak his language, come from the same background etc…

If I offended you or anyone else with that comment it was not intended that way but simply pointing out the obvious (or so I thought)

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 2, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha...

Just have to say…that was a very funny scene on Airplane. Welcome to the blog, Papa Grande.

by NSpicer on Jul 5, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't out of line in any way; he was stating facts.

I would say that the vast majority of African-American professional athletes get along better with young African-American coaches than old Caucasian ones.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 1, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your entitled to your opinion

But personally i chose to disagree concider i was born and am still a BLACK man…….many of us are not so narrow minded like we can only talk or understand people of our same race and i’m not trying to make this a racial issue but i played college football and was being concidered by the redskins until injury changed that but our offensive couch was well up in age and might i add was a white male with a very good knowledge of the game…and we learned from him well enough to run an very affective offense so race has nothing to do with who pepper thats sound like some personal demons he need to work out with hisself cause he played high school football here in the same state i played he attended southern nash high school where the majority o that area are whites so i hope that puts clarity to all of this

by PAPA GRANDE on Jul 3, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"many of us are not so narrow minded like we can only talk or understand people of our same race"

When did I suggest such a thing? You’re making something into a way bigger deal than it was.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 3, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we have to tip toe around something like that?

Its an obvious point in my view. If I hadn’t mentioned race then I could have been accused of suggesting it without actually saying it. I’m not going to play those games.

I also think the point is relevant because part of Peppers problem has been a lack of communication and understanding between him and the club. So who runs the Panthers? A bunch of older, white guys. You could make the same point with Latinos, Asians, etc…

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jul 2, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As long as society continues to tiptoe around it...

…I think we’re going to have to as well.

I understood your point, Jaxon. And I’m white, but I immediately read that part and thought to myself…“You know, there’s probably some black guys who read this blog that might take offense to that. I wonder if Jaxon realized that.”

So, I’m not surprised to see someone bring it up. And I do agree with the OP. I think you could have made your point that maybe Peppers hasn’t been able to effectively communicate with Trgovac and Sunseri and leave it at that. Then, just say that Meeks and Baker may prove better able to communicate with him as a result of being new coaches with a new mindset and philosophy.

That’s the crux of why communication might be improved. Not skin color. And I believe that, because as one of the other respondents indicated, black guys play all the time for white coaches and do quite well. Peppers has done that over his entire career. I think if there were communication problems between Peppers and the previous coaching staff, it resulted from personality problems…and little else. You might want to make the case that some of the “personality” problems might have resulted from an inability to understand one another due to different cultural backgrounds. But, unless Trgovac (and company) have displayed similar problems with other black players…and unless Peppers has shown such problems with other white coaches…I don’t think we can assume that at all.

Just my respectful two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Jul 5, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll add my two cents in here as well

I’m probably only half you guys age, so I haven’t seen some of the stuff you have seen. But I would have to say, racism and it’s effect and influence are terribly overrated. I’m not saying it’s not a problem, it is, but we seem to over-exaggerate it’s effect on how we or other lead our lives. I live in South Africa, possibly one of the most racist places in the world at one time, apartheid ended the year I was born, in 94. So for a country that ended racism’s influence over the country so short a time ago, they are remarkably under-influenced, at least among the younger people who I hang out with. The older people, of both colors, some still hang on to the past. One of my friends was called a “kaffer” which is South African for “nigger” just a few days ago by an elderly white man who was out of a job. In reverse, some whites are still looked at crosswise by a few older blacks. But among the youth, the problem is almost nonexistent. I have heard some people joke about color and racism, as if it was no big deal. Some of the things I have heard said here, you would be arrested for in the States. Basically what I am trying to say is that racism is as only a big deal as we make it, the South Africans don’t believe it has a place in their culture anymore, so they make fun of it like an old funny tradition, like boys wearing skirts until they were ten. Now don’t get me wrong, you won’t hear about this young punk arrested for making jokes about color, I’ll still avoid the issue, but until the youth of this country start seeing racism as a non-issue, it will remain an issue.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2009 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't say it was the only reason.

Or even a certain reason at all. He was speculating, and it was an entirely reasonable idea, IMO.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But speculating...

…about something as potentially incendiary as that just doesn’t come across as reasonable to everyone. I understood his point. Same as you took it. But, at the same time, I examined it for how it might be received by people such as Papa Grande, etc. And, really, to bring that point up…I just think it could have been said completely differently to highlight the possible communication issues due to personality differences and cultural differences…which may or may not be influenced by the life experiences accumulated by people of different skin colors. You know what I mean?

But it’s not worth debating really. I get you. And I got Jaxon, too. And, oddly enough, I also get Papa Grande.

—Neil

by NSpicer on Jul 7, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

about my man pep

HONESTLY I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO SAY, “LET THE CRY BABY LEAVE” SINCE HE WANTS TO PLAY ELSE WHERE. AND SEE HOW MUCH LOVE THEY SHOW HIM WHEN HE TAKES PLAYS OFF IN REALITY I’M GLAD TO HAVE HIM BACK BUT IN THE SAME I WANT TO SEE THE FIELD GOAL BLOCKING OFFENSIVE LINE JUMPING,,KNOCKING DONOVAN MCNABBS EQUALIBRIUM OFF TRACK JULIUS PEPPERS WE HAD BACK IN THE DAYS YEAH THE D LINE WAS FEARED BY ALL OF NFL BUT PEP WAS FEARED BY ALL PLAYERS JUST HIM ALONE NOW NO ONE IS AFRAID OF HIM LOOK WHAT THE GUY DID DURING THE PLAYOFF LOSE LAST SEASON BLIND SIDED HIM KNOCKING HIM FLAT WAKE UP PEP WE STILL ROUTING FOR YOU HERE MAN

by PAPA GRANDE on Jul 1, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude.

Stop yelling.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 1, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a button 3/8ths of a inch to the left of your 'a' key.

It’s called the caps lock button. Please press it. :3

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 1, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the record

I’M NOT YELLING I WAS TYPING THAT WAY CAUSE I COULD NOT SEE WHITOUT MY GLASSES ……………..NOW UNLESS I PUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THEN YOU CAN SAY I’M YELL OK

by PAPA GRANDE on Jul 3, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's okay...

I think most people who type in ALL CAPS often do so for reasons others don’t think about. In general internet etiquette, though, typing in ALL CAPS is the equivalent of shouting. It’s also pretty hard for others to read…not because of any issue with needing glasses…but rather because ALL CAP sentences just don’t read like everyday normal text you’d find in a book, newspaper, or magazine article.

But no big worries. Now that folks understand why you type in ALL CAPS, maybe they’ll give you break. Or, maybe now that you know how others perceive ALL CAPS, maybe you can adjust your posting? Regardless, welcome to the blog. :-)

My two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Jul 5, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh~ Alright.

That changes things. In any event, welcome to the blog! Glad to have you :3

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 7, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something strange going on..

How does no one know why an arguably good DC, a pro bowl DE,, and countless other coaching staff want to leave a 12-4 team? Do they know something we don’t? I hate to be a pessimist but could John Fox be a reason for this. Did they see our tough schedule next year and think that there value was at its peak after this season? I would love to know if there was more of an internal controversy that hasn’t gone public yet.

by coops6677 on Jul 2, 2009 10:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

High Standards.

Do you think Fox was kind to Trgovac the night Derrick Ward and Brandon Jacobs put up 302 yards and 3TDs on his defense? I would imagine he was not. I don’t think Fox would allow for the excuse that the starting DTs were out, either. You put up 28 points on their home field, the defense better hold ’em to 27.

I’m sure it was like “Sure Trgo, you can stay, but get ready for the wood-shed and me to take control from time to time”. Fox has taken control of the D before. That 2008 fall-off probably drove a wedge.

by Barbados on Jul 2, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Trgo's defense...

It’s hard to stop much of anybody with Nick Hayden and Gary Gibson as your DTs like he had to deal with in that Giants game.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure Fox weighed the same thing.

I’m sure Fox was on the fence with Trgo as in “okay you have these two scrubs in here, fine, it happens” (through gritted teeth?). On the other hand that 302 yards on the ground would stick in anyone’s craw. Add that to the shame with coverage with Arizona, and you have to know some words would have been said.

If you’re Fox, you figure you’ll give up 150 ground yards to the Giants in that situation and say okay, but 302 must have really stuck in him. Even if you’re understanding, it bugs you.

If I’m Trgo, I’m thinking, “I take this contract, and when’s the next game the old man jumps in my job and shames me in front of my guys?” I think that’s why you saw him double back and walk away. He went home that night and his wife said, “you can do better, you don’t have to take that, make a fresh start”.

by Barbados on Jul 2, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's possible...

…Trgovac (and company) could have left because they didn’t want to adversely coach Fox. As in, they didn’t want the poor defensive performance to be hung around his neck, particularly since many have him on the hot seat already. Instead, by leaving as they did, it allows the Panthers to hit the reset button again…and the fans will give Fox another pass until he can re-establish a defensive coaching staff. Essentially, it buys him time.

Now, do I think that’s the sole reason? No way. I agree with many of the earlier comments. I think Fox and Trgovac may have butted heads. Trgo may have felt like he was constantly playing second-fiddle to Fox, the defensive-minded head coach, a little too often. And he may have wanted to go elsewhere so he could exercise a little more freedom. I think it’s really interesting that Trgovac was willing to take a “demotion” to go somewhere else. That speaks volumes. I think he knew the fans were on him, too. And, rather than face that heat, he simply saw it as a better career move to go somewhere else.

As for the rest of the defensive staff leaving en masse like that, I’m further curious about it. Could it be that the defensive coaches had become complacent or even lackadaisical? After all, they had to have seen the writing on the wall. Fox would be making some major defensive adjustments after last year’s debacle. Maybe the other coaches just couldn’t summon up the energy and commitment for that? Maybe they preferred to go somewhere else rather than have to work through all that with Fox’s “interference” and control, as well?

Who knows? But if I’m being honest, I don’t care very much. Of the entire coaching staff, I’ve always seen Fox as the guy I want leading and coaching the team. He’s got a proven track record. I also think the defense went downhill as soon as Jack Del Rio left us. I don’t know how much control Fox exercised over Trgovac (and company). I just know that the defense had fallen off since Trgovac’s tenure. So, I’m glad to see him gone. If the rest of the defensive coaching staff wants to depart as well, I’m okay with that. It should serve to seriously shake up the players on that side of the ball. The new coaches can then credibly talk about getting back to basics. It makes the players anxious to prove themselves all over to a new set of coaches. Maybe, it means some new ideas and philosophies can get introduced on defense, too?

Hopefully, all of that results in an improvement for this season. We had a really good offensive output last year. They carried the defense, in my opinion…but just failed to do so in the playoff loss. If we can somehow improve our defense even marginally this year so that it’s a little more potent…i.e., enough to stand up to some of these playoff-caliber teams we have to play on our “killer” schedule this year…then I think that’s HUGE. By working together, both the offense and defense can seriously continue and capitalize on last year’s success. But they’ll have to listen to the new coaching staff and seriously apply themselves to making things better on defense if they want to do that. I like what I’m hearing and reading about Ron Meeks already. So maybe we’re on that path?

Just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Jul 5, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meeks seems more intense.

On the Meeks side, I can’t say why, but he seems like a more intense guy. And give him credit -he made (relatively) little Dwight Freeney into a star. Everyone on here is right – after Del Rio we went from a top-5 defense to a top-15 defense. Sorry, but that’s a downgrade.

On the race thing, I could give a crap if the guy is green, blue or purple. If the guy knows football and has guts and integrity, then he’s the guy. If he treats me with respect and decency, he’s got my ear and I will do the same for him.

As for Trgo, the guy did look like Barney Rubble, so I laugh a little, but if he coaches like Bill Belichick, then he can look like Bozo the Clown for all I care. But honestly, I sensed by his sideline demeanor that Trgo was not in complete control. Del Rio coached a top-5 defense, now he is a Head Coach. Trgo coached a top-15 defense, and he is just doing a different, lesser job.

So it goes.

by Barbados on Jul 6, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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