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Panthers Depth Chart Review – RB’s

I decided to go ahead and jump on one of the choice Panther positions for a position review. I say ‘choice’ because the truth is the Panthers have two excellent choices at RB this season. Though I don’t predict a change in the starting lineup I think the moniker ‘Double Trouble’ will be fit even more apply in 2009. Might we even develop ‘triple’ trouble? A look down the RB depth chart might give us an answer. Though it would appear four players are vying for a single 3rd RB slot more than one of these players might actually make the team. Let’s look at each of them.

 DeAngelo Williams – 5’9" 217, 4th yr, Memphis - Starter

DeAngelo Williams’s stat line for 2008 says it all. 1,515 yards rushing, 20 total TD’s and a 5.5 yards per carry average that led the NFL. Yet my favorite stat from his 2008 season is this: Zero fumbles. You can find plenty of film on him (I’ve embedded one below) and some of the spectacular plays he made since coming to Carolina. Williams averaged around 17 carries per game in 2008 so the only question is whether that number will increase in 2009. I can’t imagine any Panther fan would argue with an increase in that area no matter how good his back-up plays. Otherwise there isn’t much else to say but that he will be the starter at RB come game one and Panther fans will be excited to see what he can do as an encore to 2008.


Star-divide

Jonathan Stewart - 5’10" 235, 2nd yr, Oregon - Back-up

What a compliment Jonathan Stewart turned out to be for starter Williams. He put up 836 yards rushing, 10 TD’s and a 4.5 yards per carry average. Does anyone fear a drop off when this guy comes in the game? Hardly, we can’t wait to see what this guy will do next either. If only we could get 20 carries a game for both of these RB’s. For his part Stewart averaged over 11 carries per game and I’m sure the Panthers would love to give him more. Just be sure to keep the camera rolling because there will be plenty of highlights to review after the 2009 season.


Mike Goodson – 6’0" 215 lbs, Rookie 4th round, Texas A&M

Goodson is the latest Panther RB draft pick who will fight for a wide-open 3rd RB slot with three other players. I have to give Goodson the inside track given the Panthers expended a 4th round pick on him. Normally you wouldn’t expect more than three RB’s retained but that could change this season. Goodson is also getting a look at the 3rd WR slot so in the end the Panthers might actually dedicate a WR slot to him and retain an additional RB. I’m not expecting that just stating it’s a possibility. What I am expecting is for Goodson to nail down the 3rd RB spot. Roster Chance: 90%

Decori Birmingham – 5’10" 210 lbs, 2nd Year, Arkansas

Though Birmingham is only showing 1 year of NFL experience he has actually gotten a number of looks from teams since the 2005 season and this may be his last shot. I personally thought he looked pretty good in the preseason last season and think he could be a serviceable back-up if called upon. Yet with the drafting of Goodson it doesn’t look good for him as he doesn’t have the versatility Goodson has. I also imagine Birmingham has used up his practice squad eligibility so has to hope he shines enough to get noticed by some team reviewing film if the Panthers decide to pass. Roster Chance: 10%

 Jamell Lee – 6’1", 225 lbs, UDFA, Canada

Lee is the pride of British Columbia as being one of the best players to come out of Canada in a while. You can read a piece on him from the Panthers site here as well as watch video highlights I’m pretty sure we’ve already linked on this site before. Lee appears to have decent speed and good field vision that helps him pick his holes. He does seem to run too upright in his pads though and he doesn’t have elite speed or power. Given the depth in front of him Lee’s best chance will be the Panther practice squad which will give him an interesting decision. He could return to Canada and play a staring role in the CFL or will he stay in the US and hope for that NFL opportunity? Practice Squad Chance: 50%


 

UPDATE: I'm going to leave the breakdown, but Manson has been waived alongside Reggie Sullivan as of 6/24 to make room for the Peppers/Munnerlyn signings.--MAP

Markus Manson – 6’0" 209 lbs, UDFA, Valdosta St.

Manson is a former Florida recruit who didn’t see enough playing time so he transferred north a tad to Valdosta St. He brings blazing speed having run a 4.37 40 coming out of HS. Here’s what little info I could find on him:

One of the top running backs in the deep south after rushing for 1,900 yards and 20 touchdowns as a junior. Combines good size with blazing speed.

 Here’s what I could find on his reasons for transferring:

 An organizational allergy to running backs will do this: Gator running back Markus Manson is, according to one of those great, great sources you can’t mention, is transferring from Florida. Manson is a junior who, mired in the logjam at running back in ‘06 and then mired in the refusal to actually play a running back in ‘07, made an attempt to switch to corner when it became clear he would not see time in the offensive backfield. That didn’t exactly work out, so he’s gone to Valdosta State–again, according to our sources.

 Give the amount of speed the Panthers already have at the skill positions its hard to imagine Manson making the roster. If Jamall Lee declines a PS spot then that might open the door for Manson on the PS. Practice Squad Chance: 20%

Update: Some sites have Manson listed as a CB and not RB. He did play both for Florida but it looks like he played RB exclusively his senior year at Valdosta St. Panthers.com has him listed at RB but other sites have him at CB.

2nd Update: Manson was waived on June 25th to make room for DE Julius Peppers who signed his franchise tender.

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Lee would probably be a tough sell to stick around for the PS.

He got drafted, what, fifth in Canada?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Speed Scores for Panther Running Backs

I’m not necessarily an advocate of this method, but I found the article to be an interesting read. The scores are based on weight and 40 time.

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/predraft/2009/04/in-the-cattle-call-that.html

Panther speed scores: Williams (99.86), Stewart (118.78), Goodson (97.9), Birmingham (97.14), Lee (121.16), and Manson (104.32)

by zrjohnso on Jun 23, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also...

Even if they decide they’ll use Goodson at WR or special teams more than RB (as they did with Goings on ST more than either RB or FB), I think they’ll use that “extra” spot on a position other than RB, particularly with Fiammetta on board.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Especially since we have to leave a spot for Fish n Chips

What’s his name? Lloyd? No need to carry a 4th RB. Goodson has so much potential at so many positions… he is going to be a great asset to this team!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 23, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lloyd is a GREAT asset to this team… if only Fox would have the balls to let him kick some FG’s beyond 50yrds!!!

plus I really cant wait to see the day when he tackles the Sh*#% out of someone in the open field!!!!!!!!!!

by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might be about more than balls...

Lloyd has never really shown himself to be consistently accuracy as a place-kicker. The last time he got a shot (his senior season at Minnesota), he was 1/5 from 40+ and missed four XPs.

But yes, you can’t argue with the value of his roster spot, particularly given his K-ball TB record last year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would still like to see him given a chance… the worst thing that could happen? He misses it and we dont get 3 on the board. I love Casey to death, but he dosnt have the leg Lloyd has.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 24, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He could miss...

And then our opponent would have the ball at their 40 or farther rather than inside the 20.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree...

Lloyd isn’t half the accurate kicker Kasay is…and has been…for us. And Kasay isn’t half the distance kick-off guy Lloyd is…and hopefully will continue to be…for us.

by NSpicer on Jun 24, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No you gotta keep Lloyd

Having teams consistently start on their 20 makes such a huge difference!

What if during a kickoff he gets one through the uprights? New rule: That should be 3pts? Then you’d see every NFL team paying big bucks to sign Brazilian soccer players.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jun 24, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha...

It works in Aussie rules.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That stiff arm by Stew still makes me laugh when I see it. :)

On a serious note, I think the Panthers will have the leagues best running game, barring injury to the O-line. Can’t wait to see what role Goodson will play here.

Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader

by Ivan459 on Jun 23, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why dont we limit jake to 10 throws a game and let Williams and Stewart take care of the rest

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jun 23, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How do you like your crow Procto?

Procton you’re not going to comment on Williams’ success? I guess you attribute that to Stewart and the o-line. Its funny, he had the same line Foster ran behind with the same lead FB and essentially was in the same boat Stewarts in this year, but managed to put up more yards per carry (than Foster & Stewart) and not fumble the ball as many times (as Foster and Stewart). ZERO fumbles last year, that’s three less than your hero Delhomme. I wonder what Foster’s ranking on Madden is, given Williams is a 94 now.

by D.W.G. on Jun 23, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm missing your point

Foster ran behind a different line all together though two of the guys are the same, just in different positions. I think even Williams would give props to his o-line as key to his huge year. What RB wouldn’t?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Jun 23, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

D-Will and Procton

I haven’t been on here in a while so I’m not sure why the haterade dumping on Procton, but I’ll let you guys figure it out. In D-Will’s 2nd season, he and Foster obviously had the same line. D-Will averaged 1.5 yards per carry more than Foster and with the same number of carries, he would’ve had well over 1200 yards. But the only guy in the league that can slow him down, John Fox, did it. Then he let D-Will have at it last year. If you look at D-Will college highlights and highlights from his first two seasons, you’ll see he’s always been great, and not letting him have the ball to often in his first two years was just a mistake by Foxy and the OC that got fired. This season, I hope he continues to get a similar number of touches because I want him fresh in the playoffs. Of course, 350 carries gets him to about 2,000 yards if we want that.

As for Lee, I think he would definitely take the practice squad over the CFL. I think the PS salaries are more than twice the CFL salaries. He also will still get looks on the PS and a reputation. That is how Ryan Grant got his shot after being on the Giants PS.

Either way, I can’t wait cuz this baseball/golf/tennis season stuff is killing me.

by usana_gaines on Jun 24, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I maintained that Foster was the better starter/workhorse back for us when they were both here.

And I also said that Williams would never be a quality starter if he played the same way he did. I hope ya’ll have not forgotten the way he used to tapdance behind the line if he didn’t see a hole the size of a truck, the way he’d constantly flail at any defender in his general vicinity without actually contributing anything positive whenever he had to pass block, and how most of his best performances would either come: a. in blowouts, or b. at the end of games after Foster had worn down the defense. And, to his credit, the kid worked really hard over the last offseason and came back a better player (as was noted by most every player and coach around the team.) Still, I think much of his success last year had a lot to do with the revamping of the power-run line, and the drafting of Stewart to serve as one of the best change of pace backs/distractions in the league. Foster was never really a good situational back because he needs to wear the defense down, and when he tried to drop weight and get quicker to serve as the speed back to Davis’ power, it never really suited him. Still, I think he’s got a place in this league, as—obviously—do our current RBs.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets get one thing straight here

Foster never was and never will be a power back, when he tried he got stuffed. I remember on game, he shot for the hole like big ole #48, hti the hole, then fell over backwards.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 24, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And about the Lee questions...

NFL minimum for PS players is $5200/week ($88.4 K/season), but some players are paid as high as the minimum salary for active roster players ($350K+.)

In the CFL, the rookies are apparently guaranteed a base salary of $41K, but could get bumped as high as $60K.

So the money would probably be relatively similar (although the CFL season would be about halfway over by Sept. 1 cuts and he’d lose lots if he’s here until then), and I’d say it comes down to what he really wants to do: does he want to be a heralded young player in Canada, one of the most-celebrated natives of the college ranks there in a long time who will carry on his father’s legacy as the last Canadian-born player to lead the CFL in rushing while also staying in excellent game shape while seeing live action; or does he want to be an also-ran in the NFL, slaving away on a practice squad where nobody knows his name in the hopes that he’ll someday get signed to an active roster and get to play special teams and maybe get 20 carries in his career?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good info

Good info about the money between CFL and NFL PS. So to me, over the short term, he’d probably make more money in the NFL, but not a whole lot more. If he really loves football, he’ll be in the CFL. If he plays great in the CFL, he could get another shot in the NFL later.

by usana_gaines on Jun 24, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it.

I know it’s a different brand of football, but you’ll certainly get more league-wide exposure playing in games than on a team’s practice squad (although with a successful preseason, who knows?)

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What’s the cost of living in Canada?

by zrjohnso on Jun 24, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure it's cheaper...

Although the exchange rate is much better than it once was.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post !

I hope decides to stay, he would be great on the practice squad however anyone could sign him off of it at anytime, so with that being said I fear he may return home and go into the CFL, but that league has really nothing in terms of real competition anyway. As stated above and I completely agree it is a 50-50 shot at best.

Manson would stay if Lee goes back to CFL on practice squad.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jun 23, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see Lee competing

Its nice that he’s getting a chance but I didn’t see any burst through the holes and the level of competition seemed pretty much like a high school game.

by Parmenides on Jun 24, 2009 1:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Deangelo's Future?

What do you think the Panther’s will do with D’s contract if he has another season like last? Will we pay him what others would? Why did we draft another RB this year? Are we prepared to let him go if we can’t put the franchise tag on him? I know its early but I read about this last night while looking for info on Pep. Anybody have the inside?

by Cole Train on Jun 25, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's tough to say what they'll do at this point...

But I’d imagine they’d let him hit the market before they break the bank trying to keep a guy who we already have a more than adequate, cheap replacement for in J-Stew.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manson's PS percentage is now at 0

He was released today. Cornerback Reggie Sullivan got the axe, too.

The moves were announced along with the signing of Cap’n Munnerlyn.

by r3 on Jun 25, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, yesterday to correspond with the Munnerlyn and Peppers signings.

Noted in updates to this article and to the main page.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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