Projected Panthers 2009 Depth Chart: Kickers

by LittleKing on May 7, 2009 11:04 PM EDT Comment 22 comments

Now that we had a first look at our possible 53 man roster, I figured the next logical step would be a position by position breakdown. So over the next few weeks we will have the chance to dive a bit deeper into each position and try to determine which players will be the best fit for team. I'm going to start with an easy and often unglamorous position, the kickers.

Since I really don't think the question is "are the Panthers going to keep both", because we know they are, but rather do WE, the fans, think H&F (Hurney & Fox) should look for alternative options to free the extra roster spot. Starting field position can play a big role in the outcome of the game. However, saying that early in the season Jeff King was the next on the depth chart to be placed in as an offensive lineman, having an extra body on the sideline for kicking duties can be a negative.

Last year we carried both a kickoff specialist and place kicker with Rhys Lloyd and John Kasay respectively. Nobody can argue against improvements in the kickoff game. Just look at the stats from 2008 compared to 2007.

Kickoff Stats
Stat	2008 / Rank	2007 / Rank
Kickoffs	90 / T-7th	66 / T-27th
Total Yds	6008 / 6th	4042 / 28th
Average	66.8 / 2th*	61.2 / 25th
Touchbacks	30 / 1st	4 / 29th
Touchback %	59% / 1st	6.1% / 28th
Out of bounds	1 / T-12nd **	6 / 32nd

In 2007 we didn't finish above 27th in any category, while in 2008 we finished no lower than 7th, a major improvement to say the least. I should also point out that Lloyd only had 88 of our kickoff attempts leaving Kasay with the other two. Of those two one was an onside kick vs Atlanta in week 12, the other was in then our last game of the season against the Saints and it only went 30 yards OUT OF BOUNDS at the end of the game, bringing back oh so lovely memories of Superbowl XXXVIII.

Kasay's 2008 Field Goal Stats
1-19		20-29		30-39		40-49		50+
A-M	Pct	A-M	Pct	A-M	Pct	A-M	Pct	A-M	Pct
0-0	0	7-7	100	9-9	100	12-11	92	3-1	33

Field Goal Totals
FGM	FGA	Pct / Rank	Blk	Lng / Rank
28	31	90 / 6th^	0	50 / T-24th

You can't fault a kicker for making "only" 90% of their field goals, only 5^ other field goal kickers completed more percentage wise. Kasay definitely fulfilled his role.

Kasay signed a new contact last year through 2012, so he can finish he career as a Panther. He's the last player from the Panthers first season in 1995, which is quite amazing. His 2009 salary is $1.5 million. On the other hand Lloyd's salary is $460,000 and will be a free agent after 2009.

In 2008 there were only nine kickers and punter that had a salary higher than two million dollars. So is it worth having nearly $2 million tied up in the kicker positions? What do you think the Panthers should do regarding the kicker position?

* With more than one kickoff
** First twelve teams had zero, next thirteen teams had one out of bounds
^Excluding the two kickers that attempted and made only one field goal

Poll

What should the Panther do with the kickers position for 2009?

Keep only John Kasey

11 votes

Keep only Rhys Lloyd

27 votes

Keep both John Kasey and Rhys Lloyd

407 votes

Find a kicker to do both

26 votes

471 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

OUT OF BOUNCE ...

…. I think you mean “Out of Bounds”.

by GKB on May 7, 2009 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Corrected

Thanks…

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 8, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah,

my bad. Thanks

by LittleKing on May 8, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As you pointed out, John Kasay is the last original Panther

he better die in that uniform (not literally). Other than Hanson of Detroit (also a K), I can’t think of another player than has spent so long in one place that wasn’t in a glamour position (QB, WR, etc.). I love John Kasay. May he never leave us.

by chillicothe20 on May 8, 2009 12:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kasay will retire a Panther

He better anyway. I’d like to see him kick the game winner in the SB so he can go out with a bang.

Keeping Lloyd is a no-brainer. The field position he puts the opposing offense in is very worth the roster spot.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 8, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like having both K on the roster if nothing else than the field position

I only hope that the Panthers let Lloyd kick some field goals and extra points this pre-season and maybe some during the season. Kasay will not be around forever and why not groom his replacement over the next couple of years while getting awesome kick offs.

Bad spellers of the world untie.

by A'sfaninNC on May 8, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Field goal stats

I didn’t put it in the post but when I was looking up stats on field goals but in 2008 there were the lowest attempt of field goals 10 yards for less with eight.

Yr-Att
08- 8
07-17
06-15
05-13
04-12
03- 6
02-13
01-10
00-29
99-25
98-22
97-20
96-20
95-19

Thought it was kind of interesting.

by LittleKing on May 8, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow I didn't finish my though in the first sentence

I meant to say that 2008 was the 2nd lowest attempted with eight for quite some time. At least going back to at least 1995. sorry about that.

by LittleKing on May 8, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's ok...

you write well for a baby. By the way, I love your work on those E*trade commercials.

by zrjohnso on May 8, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finally

I’m recognized for my work. ;)

by LittleKing on May 8, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like you said

Kasay will be here till he retires. Given that, it is a no brain that you have Lloyd (or someone else, if Lloyd leaves after the season) as well.

True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 8, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What's the difference...

In “tying up $2 mil in two kickers” and tying up $1.5 mil in one kicker and $500K in a guy who only plays ST himself?

For now, the Kasay+Lloyd strategy works. However, since we’re clearly not replacing Kasay as the kicker anytime soon, I’d like us to try and make sure our next punter can handle kickoffs. Still, though, Baker is signed through ‘12, so maybe that’s not in the cards either.

by MichaelProcton on May 8, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think what was meant was,

that after this season Lloyd will be a free agent, with the question being what then?

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on May 8, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I certainly don’t think you fight to keep him. Not unless Kasay starts to show real signs of decline, anyway. Still, though, I guess the fact that we keep Lloyd off placement kicks would only help to suppress his value, if anything.

by MichaelProcton on May 8, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Having two kickers hurts a team too

I hate the fact that the Panthers need to keep two kickers, but at this point they do. They couldn’t afford to have kasay do kick-offs, field position is too important and Rhys is still too inconsistent at FGs.

Although, I think about the player that was lost last season, which was most likely Tim Shaw, because of the need to keep two kickers. Shaw not only proved himself on ST, but I also thought he would be a good LB one day. I wonder who’ll be the player that will be cut this season in order to keep two kickers on their 53 roster and 8 man PS.

I believe Tim Shaw wasn’t eligible for the PS last season because he played on STs in too many games the season before, but even if he was, some team would have signed him. The Jags wasted no time picking up Shaw last season after the Panthers cut him. What gem of a player will they waste no time picking up this season after the Panthers cut him?

by meanoreno on May 8, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is that the same Tim Shaw...

who only managed to get a jersey in three games last year for the lousy Jaguars? The one who’s, at best, their fifth-best LB? Yeah…sure seems like we missed out on a stud, ahem, or wait, it was a true “gem.”

by MichaelProcton on May 8, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it was

The same guy that the Panthers spent a 5th round pick on who helped STs his 1st season with 14 tackles. The same guy who tied LB Patrick Willis time in the 40 yard dash at the combine with a 4.51. The same guy that LB Connor said he couldn’t keep up with during running drills while at Penn St.. The same guy who was the best in the cone drills at the combine.

The same unselfish player the following article is about:

“Tim Shaw is a football player. There is no question about that. Shaw played out of position last season as a defensive end because he wanted to help his team. He was not thinking about his draft status, he was thinking about Penn State and winning. That is why on Penn State’s football site, it says, “Tim Shaw is Penn State.” His hardworking and toughness is exactly what NFL scouts are looking for. Shaw also has some game too. He played in 46 games while at Penn State, finished with 176 career tackles, and runs a sub 4.5 40. There is no doubt Shaw has the physical and mental ability to play in the NFL.
http://thefootballexpert.com/timshaw070002.html

Tim didn’t have the opportunity to attend TC and preseason with the Jags. Del Rio knows LB’ing talent a wee bit better than you, so don’t get too cocky into thinking that he won’t be any good and expressing like a _ _.

Also, when I used the word gem with a player that was cut or maybe cut, it isn’t referring them to a player of a 1st round caliber, but a player that was picked in later rounds or a UDFA that could be a productive player for a team. Shaw will be one of these players sooner or later.

by meanoreno on May 9, 2009 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was surprised we cut Shaw

but obviously there were better players to keep. We still had Donte Curry, James Anderson, Adam Seward, Landon Johnson and Dan Connor backing up the starters. The coaching staff obviously thought keeping Shaw wasn’t worth it.

by Flowing Willow on May 9, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Two kickers

Yeah having two kickers does hit the salary cap a little bit, but it works. Our current system needs both of them. Kasay for his KAC and Lloyd for his KPW. Maybe we need to consider eating a few dollars and get rid of Baker, unless we expect Lloyd to replace Kasay. In any case we’d still need Lloyd’s KPW, later Baker

by lineal89 on May 10, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we have to worry too much...

…about the salary cap hit incurred by the kickers. Julius Peppers and Jake Delhomme have locked up far more in their salaries. So, if the Panthers want to manage their personnel decisions around the salary cap, they need to find a way to move Peppers. And I think they’re laying the groundwork for that already.

I don’t expect to see Peppers in a Panthers’ uniform next year. Though, I have no idea what kind of compensation (if any) we’ll get for him. Hopefully, they trade him for something of value rather than just releasing him. Regardless, when they do, we’ve got some major salary cap room after that…enough that carrying two kickers and a punter won’t mean anything (cap-wise). And enough that we’ll hopefully start looking for an eventual replacement to Jake Delhomme as well. That’s going to take more time than just next season, though…unless we can get a 1st round pick for Peppers so we can use it to draft a new QB.

by NSpicer on May 12, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't argue with results.

John Kasey only managed to kick 2 balls out of the endzone in 2007, while Lloyd flew past that in one game. I’m alright with both of them to be honest.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on May 12, 2009 2:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs