Does The Panthers Muhsin Muhammad Deserve a spot in Canton?

by Revshawn on May 21, 2009 1:09 AM EDT Comment 37 comments

This year we will have to face a very realistic possibility that this will be Moose's last year. Besides a 3 year haitus in Chicago, he has spent his entire career here in Carolina. He's the Panthers leading receiver in both receptions and passing yards. He's made a trip to the playoffs 4 times, got elected to the Pro-Bowl twice, and he's been to the Super Bowl twice as well.

He has almost 11,000 receiving yards for his career, only the 29th player in NFL history to surpass 10,000 receiving yards in a career. He's started in 175 games in the NFL, 134 of them with the Panthers. More important, he is a part of our team history, our legacy within the league. He is a player so endeared to us that we have developed the tradition of shouting his name every time he makes a catch. He has become a family name that everyone knows, and a guy we're used to seeing every time we turn on our television on Sunday afternoon.

It's an amazing thing, watching NFL players roll through their careers like they do. A select few players help their team to the Super Bowl, and even fewer get their first ring. Moose has had a long, happy career. He's pretty much done whatever there is to do as a player in the NFL. The only accomplishment that he's missing is his Super Bowl ring. That's the only thing that's missing from his long, illustrious career.

Let's say that Moose gets about 800 yards for the season which would being him to around 11.5k yards for his career. Would that be enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?

Poll

Does Moose Deserve a spot in Canton?

yes

324 votes

no

287 votes

611 votes | Poll has closed

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Looks like fans are split

3 say no, 4 say yes. Me, if Moose has another season like last, then he has a long shot, but the only way he could get in is as the best blocking receiver in the game. He is a shoo-in for the Panthers Hall of Honor though.

by Flowing Willow on May 21, 2009 3:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he's ever gotten the attention for blocking...

of golden boy Hines Ward. Their receiving stats, though, are relatively similar on a per-game basis.

by MichaelProcton on May 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have to account for Ward's 2 Superbowl wins

They may have similar receiving stats but you can’t argue with Ward’s 2 superbowl wins. I think he was even the mvp of one. Moose has been a pretty consistent threat for us but I don’t think he has enough credentials for the HOF. Steve on the other hand..

by panthersandpack on May 26, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Panther Hall of Honor with a couple more good seasons

But not HOF in my view

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 21, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think he's a lock for RoH...

This season, he’ll get to 9000 yards and 50 TDs with the team, he’s been a captain, and he’s played most of his career here.

by MichaelProcton on May 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say...

No. Unfortunately WRs are measured against people like Jerry Rice (which is unrealistic), but that’s the way it is. As a result Muhammad’s numbers are…okay…and that’s assuming he has a generally productive year for us next season as well. He’s also got high character going for him, but I doubt it would be enough. He’s clearly a very important component to the Panther’s success as a franchise over the years, but physically he’s overshadowed by Steve Smith’s explosiveness and a dozen other WRs that have played during the same time period.

As a result, Muhsin just doesn’t stand out to enough of the league voters to put him in the Hall of Fame. Over all the years he’s played, he’s only gone to the Pro Bowl twice. So I think it’s highly unlikely the votes would suddenly materialize to put in Canton at the end of his career. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see him there, though. As a Panther fan, I think he’d make a great recipient for that honor from the Panther’s organization. I just don’t see it happening.

My two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 21, 2009 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I voted No

I’m not sure he will be in the Panther Hall of Honor either. I think he has a better shot than Minter or Rucker, but I would say John Kasey is more deserving. And if Steve Smith continues on his path, I would say it would at least be a close call between him and Muhammad. I just don’t think you could include one and not the other IMO. Isn’t it either both or neither? The bar should be set high.

by zrjohnso on May 21, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, but no HoF for Moose

You have to be recognized as one of the great players of your generation to make the Hall of Fame. I’m sorry, but Moose has only had one all-pro type of season, and personally I’ll remember him for his “moose droppings”. I hate to say it, but Keyshawn Johnson should be inducted in the HoF before Moose, and I don’t even think Key should make it.

Off the top of my head, HoF WR’s from this era would include Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce, TO, Randy Moss, possibly Torry Holt. Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Smith are on path if they can consistently average 75+ catches and 1000 yards per year.

by Swollenstein on May 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to the blog Swollenstein

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 21, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And can I get an "amen" for dropping the term Moose Droppings?

by r3 on May 21, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did chuckle on that one Reverend r3

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 21, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Torry Holt is going to Canton

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on May 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I love the guy, he’s super nice in person and does magnificent things for the communities he’s been in. He’s one of the better receivers in the game.

He’s very good.

Canton is for the truly great. The most feared and dominant players at their position.

Holt’s not that guy. Marvin Harrison might not make it because of perception that his gaudy numbers were a product of the Colts’ system. Issac Bruce wasn’t the best receiver on his own team for most of his career.

TO and Moss have the game to put them in, but Moss’ “play when I want to” comment and his stay in Oakland, and TO’s ability to destroy his teams will both make it very hard for them to make it.

As for the general discussion, Moose has never, not once ever, been the most feared receiver in the game. He has zero chance of going to Canton. In fact, his DUI / possession arrest a few years back makes it hard for me to even envision him in the Panthers’ Hall of Honor. I mean, if Minter and Rucker didn’t make it, what chance does Moose stand?

by r3 on May 21, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that...

Holt will be in the top 10 in catches and yards, top 20 in TDs, and currently ranks #2 ALL TIME in YPG. I think he’s got a way better than even shot to make it.

Harrison’s got more catches than anybody than Jerry Rice ever, for crying out loud, 150 more than Andre Reed, the first guy on that list not in the Hall. He also will likely end up third on the yardage list and fourth on the TD list. Add that to 8 PBs and 3 All-Pros, and there’s no way I could EVER see him not making it. Bruce’s numbers are very similar. I just don’t think HoF voters will ignore the productivity of these guys.

by MichaelProcton on May 22, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

And give Rucker and Moose a couple of years. They might well still make it, particularly Rucker, who was far more of a force relative to the rest of the league.

by MichaelProcton on May 22, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Production vs Impact

There’s a big argument between the selectors for the Hall about how much production should count when set against a player’s impact on the game. Bullet Bob Hayes is in. Cris Carter is not in. The comparison between the two, from a production standpoint, is not even close.

Hayes: 371 catches in 11 seasons, 7414 yards, 71 TDs , 20.0 YPC
Carter: 1101 catches in 16 seasons, 13899 yards, 130 TDs, 12.6 YPC

One guy was the most feared player at his position for years who scored once every five times he caught the ball, and one guy was simply the best possession receiver to ever play. Carter will get in, but racking up huge numbers over a long career in a passing offense isn’t nearly as impressive or important to Hall voters as your impact on the game of football and your ability to keep opposing coaches up late at night.

Is Harrison, a very good player with great production, a product of having Peyton as his QB? Are Holt’s numbers inflated because he was part of The Greatest Show on Turf? I don’t have the answers, but I know that Harrison has a Super Bowl ring and six All Pro appearances, while Holt has a ring and one All Pro appearance.

All that said, I really can’t envision a world where Harrison doesn’t make the Hall, but there is a cogent argument against Holt making it, no matter how gaudy his numbers nor how much I love my boy from NC State (wolfPACK!).

by r3 on May 22, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moose will not be going to Canton

He would need to put up some great numbers (pro bowl type) for at least 2 more seasons and probably win a SB so he can get that on the resume.

Moose has had one dominate year, 2 borderline pro-bowl years, and the rest being solid. He also is not flashy and as we all know, he excel’s at the “dirty work”.

Current career numbers:
starts – 175
rec – 807
yds – 10,807
avg yds/rec – 13.5
TD – 61
1st downs – 534

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on May 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh...

I’d hardly say ’99 was a “borderline” Pro Bowl year for him. 3rd in the league in catches, top 10 in yardage.

by MichaelProcton on May 21, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moose will not go to HoF

I guess I’m not saying anything new here. His drops cost his teams too many games, his blocking did not have enough good runners behind him for consistent years, and his teams never won the big one.

Moose, I love you so much I bought my wife your jersey the day you came back home. Sadly the games you lost, and the game you may never win will cost you the honor of the HOF. That and playing for an expansion mid-market team. But we the fans of said expansion mid-market team thank you for all that you have done, and can’t wait to see you next season.

by Oi2dwrld on May 21, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another question...

Does anybody think Muhsin gets a statue some day? Or any other player?

by NSpicer on May 21, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As I said up above, I don't think he does.

I just can’t envision the Panthers casting into bronze a guy whose Wikipedia page has the description “misdemeanor drug and weapon offenses.”

I thought Minter and Rucker stood a pretty decent chance at getting in, particularly as a pair, but that hasn’t happened and there doesn’t seem to be any momentum for it.

Somewhere between Sam Mills and Mike Minter is a line, and the only player I can see getting close to it is John Kasay. But then you’ve got the uncomfortable fact that you’ve put a kicker in your Hall of Honor. A kicker who, despite his magnificent work in the community and his steady play over the full length of the franchise’s existence, could be said to have lost his team their one shot at a Super Bowl victory.

Now, when we win the Super Bowl this year, you just wipe that whole last paragraph out and you make sure you’ve got a good sculptor lined up for Kasay’s statue.

by r3 on May 21, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

John Fox should get one.

For transforming this team and taking it to the Super Bowl in two years. If John has a nice long career and wins us a couple of Super Bowls as Head Coach, I’d say he deserves a statue.

John Kasey is kind of iffy. A statue of a kicker in front of your stadium? Cmon now, that’s not what I would like to see. People would come from other cities and laugh at us. Steve Smith on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind giving him a statue when his career is said and done. They should decorate a little plate at the bottom of his NFL Combine assessment.

“Too short to play in the NFL.”

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on May 21, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree on Fox

But that’s a big “if”.

by zrjohnso on May 21, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it any less ridiculous...

Than putting a guy in bronze who played just three years here?

by MichaelProcton on May 22, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really doubt...

…that John Kasay would even receive a statue. Not that someone wouldn’t suggest it when he retires…but rather because I don’t think he’d allow it. John’s a very religious guy. And I think he’d view that kind of personal accolade (i.e., a statue of himself) as too self-serving. He’d be the first one to suggest it be someone else. Because the guy’s that classy. And, in some ways, that’s really all the more reason he should have one.

by NSpicer on May 22, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's that line?

I think longevity is an important part of such an honor, and Mills only played three years here. Now, if we’re going to include the fact that he stuck around to coach, that’s fine, but it doesn’t seem like being a position coach would really solidify you for it.

by MichaelProcton on May 22, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, Mills only played three years

but he played the FIRST three years here, and more importantly he played a huge role in setting the tone for how the team was supposed to perform, how the players were supposed to perform and interact with the community, and was one of the most important people who breathed life into the soul of the franchise.

Kasay was, too. And he’s played a huge role on the team, despite his obvious disability*, in the many years since. I think Kasay’s going to make it into the Hall of Honor. But I voiced some of the knocks against his inclusion up above, and I think they’re legitimate.

*- He’s a kicker.

by r3 on May 22, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They also put up a statue to...

…Mike McCormack. And he never played any football for us. Thus, the statue thing and the Panther’s “ring of honor” is more about people who have impacted the franchise…and not necessarily played extensively for it.

by NSpicer on May 22, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why isn't Minter in the Hall of Honor?

Somethings wrong here. Someone should mail Jerry Richardson a letter, or email him, or something. If Minter is not in, then no other Panther on the team will. Not even Steve.

by Flowing Willow on May 22, 2009 3:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wondered that when he retired

and a lot of people zinged me on this blog saying “The Panthers need to set the bar higher” or something to that affect.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 22, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minter just wasn't a dynamic player for NFL standards

Never made a PB, never showed up on league leaders lists, etc.

by MichaelProcton on May 22, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minter just didn't stand out...

…as much, from an impact standpoint on the franchise itself. He was a good player for us. Great even. But his career with the Panthers isn’t in the same category impact-wise as what Sam Mills provided in a lot less time.

by NSpicer on May 22, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most of Minter and Ruckers career was before me

but what I remember about Minter was his classy leadership, even impact plays, running down that Detroit receiver I mentioned earlier, a pick to seal the game vs Cleveland in 06, the year his play “supposedly” fell off. From what I remember, he was an impact player. Maybe not someone who kept opposing coaches up at night, but definitely someone deserving of a spot in the Hall of Honor. Same for Rucker.

by Flowing Willow on May 23, 2009 2:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd say no

As good and dependable as Moose has been his entire career, his reputation for dropped balls will always stick, and has never been considered among the elite crop of wide receivers.

His legacy will be that of Jimmy Smith, Kenny Stabler, and Mark Clayton.

Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!

by ifuwannacrownem on May 27, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I really want to say yes

Because he was the first NFL player I ever met. Met him at his first training camp when I was a young boy and sat next to his wife and she got him to sign an autograph for me when they were going through the tunnel. I’ll never forget her saying Muhsin Muhsin come sign this boys picture lol. Ever since then I’ve been a Moose fan, even when he was in Chicago. But unfortunly I can’t say he has the stats to get in. If it was based on character then yes he would be a surefire HOFmer but based entirely on stats probably not. It makes me sad just to have to say that

by blueverinefan on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

...he would?

You don’t think they’d hold the weapons and drug charges against him?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well off the field he had a stumble ro two

But at least he was a good teammate. For some reason the NFL doesn’t seem to care completely about how the guys act off the field, well until recently.

by blueverinefan on Jun 4, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs