Jamall Lee: Is he a keeper? I think so.

by Revshawn on May 10, 2009 10:20 PM EDT

If there is any player that we picked up out of free agency that I think could make the Caroline Panthers, it would be a lesser known guy named Jamall Lee. How this guy did not make the NFL Combine is a mystery in itself. I can understand that he's in Canada, but you would think that someone would look up there and realize that this guy has plenty of raw potential. He has a shot at being a starter in the NFL once given enough time to develop and improve his game.

He was a standout in the CFL Evaluation camp: He had the fastest 10, 20, and 40 yard dashes, longest vertical jump, and had the longest arm span of any player there. Broke 2 records in the CFL Evaluation. He also has a good bloodline on his side: His father was the last Canadian to lead the CFL in rushing yards for the year. What you have is a load of talent, give him a few good coaches and he could develop into something special. You can describe him in one word: Athleticism.

There are a lot of strikes against the kid though. Though he has played in one of the best conferences in Canada, the talent he faces in America will by far outclasses the talent he faced there. You also have a lot of the rule changes he'll have to overcome, such as the much stricter movement on the offensive side of the ball. He will have to learn to run between the tackles, as he will not be able to hit the edge on every single play.

However if we don't sign him, Canada certainly will. In the CFL draft, the BC Lions traded up one spot by trading one of their 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick to move up one slot in the CFL Draft to choose him. This shows a great amount of confidence in the kid. They're hoping, praying for the Panthers to drop him.

Should we?

The decision will come down to this, can we make room on our team for him? He has the talent to make it as a punt returner or a kick returner, and if the Panthers really like him they can turn him into the 3rd RB spot. Either way, this kid should not be allowed to hit the FA market. He has too high of a ceiling for the Panthers to ignore.

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I don't

I am sorry. I want to believe the hype but I don’t think those were highlights compared to Goodson. Those were not too impressive. I like one run around 3:25 but other than that I see a lot of over committing and poor tackling. I think he has raw natural talent but I doubt he makes the squad. I like him on some special teams if anything but the 6’1" build might be a little too big. I am worried about that. A diamond in the rough but I think we need the depth at many positions this season if we want to make the playoffs again. We shouldn’t hold a position for Lee this year. If he stays PS, I will be happy but I have a feeling he will go and be a CFL sensation.

by GMallory on May 10, 2009 11:47 PM EDT reply actions

I doubt he'd make that choice...

He’d get paid more as an active CFL player and he’ll be in better game shape for another NFL attempt.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I dont see us keeping 4 RBs this year

with them drafting goodson, i dont believe he will make it, goodson seems to be a mutli purpose player in the slot position as well as 3rd string, with the panthers possibly keeping flammetta(sp?) on the roster as a another FB to compliment hoover, i dont see the a spot for him available, not saying i wouldnt mind him, but it would make us have to lack depth at another positions.

by saltinedeluxe on May 11, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions

Goodson

I’ve heard them talk about using him as a WR/ST player, so that may be a way to keep Lee and only keep 3 RB’s depending on what he shows in camp….

by ClaytonFire on May 11, 2009 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree with the crowd

If he is willing to play on the PS, then we should keep him, but we also have Birmingham competing for a spot too. I think he will realize the CFL is his best bet and go their.

by Flowing Willow on May 11, 2009 3:07 AM EDT reply actions

imo

I like him a lot, but I agree that he will not make the squad. If a 3rd rd pick and an UDFA are somewhat comparable, you keep the draft pick just cuz he cost more. However, I think there is definitely room for him in the NFL. I look at some of the other backs in the NFL, and I think he is a step up over guys like JJ Arrington, Samkon Gado, amd pther 2nd or 3rd string backs. If only he could play CB with that size and speed…

by usana_gaines on May 11, 2009 4:44 AM EDT reply actions

I think we only keep Lee if...

…the Panthers are willing to cut Decori Birmingham…
…and Lee is willing to take a spot on the practice squad…
…and we’re able to sneak Lee onto said practice squad past several other teams who will be interested in him.

Other than that, I think Goodson has a better shot to make the team based on his versatility in the WR slot position and KR/PR duties. If they somehow replace Ryne Robinson with Goodson, then maybe that opens up the 3rd string RB position for Lee as a starter. But I doubt they’ll go that direction.

Still, it depends on what they see during evaluations in training camp. Who executes the best? Who gets into the playbook and learns everything the best? And, perhaps more importantly, who avoids injury?

Just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 11, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions

Practice Squad

I don’t think he would do the PS. He would have a starting role in the CFL if he doesn’t make an NFL team.

by LittleKing on May 11, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions

He may make more money on the PS than he would starting in CFL

I read somewhere that his salary would be 50k in the CFL. I am not sure what PS players make.

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on May 11, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Minimum PS salary:

A little less than $90K, but some players have been paid up to the full minimum.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree...

It’s entirely possible Lee wouldn’t even accept a position on a practice squad, knowing he’d get actual playing time up in Canada. Granted, it would pay less (about 50% less probably). And, he’s also been quoted as wanting to try out more for the NFL than the CFL because “that’s where the best players are”…so who knows really? It’s a choice he may not even get to make, depending on how he performs in training camp…and how coachable he turns out to be.

So, that’s why I see a lot of “IF’s” around Lee making the final cut. I think it will be really hard for him to beat out Goodson as the third RB. And if the Panthers want to keep Fiammetta on the active roster (and for special teams), it makes it even less likely. About the only way I see the 3rd RB slot opening up for Lee is if Goodson replaces Ryne Robinson and takes over the KR/PR duties full-time for the departed Mark Jones. If that happens, then Goodson becomes a WR/KR/PR who can serve double-duty as an extra RB. And that would let Lee (or even Decori Birmingham) have a shot at an open roster spot if the Panthers want to keep a larger-than-average RB stable on hand in case injuries develop.

Still, you’ve got to consider that Deangelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, and Brad Hoover are BY FAR the workhorses of this team’s running game. Everything after that is just insurance…

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 11, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Welcome Neil!

Glad you made it to the blog!

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on May 11, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks!

I’m glad I found the place. There’s more frequent updates and discussion over here than waiting (and w-a-i-t-i-n-g !!!) for a new article to appear on the Observer’s forums. This seems to be a better place for actual “fan” conversation, as well. Thanks for having me aboard!

—Neil

by NSpicer on May 11, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Lee has a lot of work to do.

In the video I saw several thing that I do not like.

1. he runs too high
2. he doesn’t “run behind his pads” and deliver a pop
3. he cuts everything outside on a field wider than a NFL field
4. his competition was very weak

Will Parker

by WillParker81 on May 11, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions

Yes

Excellent. I knew that he was running too high. He seems wicked tall out there and I know that he would be eaten alive if he went through the blocks that tall. Head ripped off.

by GMallory on May 11, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree.

I’ve been researching this guy, and I think I’ve found a classic example of a raw player with a lot of potential just going through other players whom simply are not athletic enough to bring him down. He was successful, so he never got around to learning all the technical assets of the game.

Still, running a 4.39 at his size is an amazing thing. Here’s a guy I wouldn’t mind to take as a developmental prospect.

To answer a previous confusion, PS players make 5,200$ a week during the regular season and the playoffs if their team is in. In Canada Jamall Lee would have a contract of around 50,000$. They pay rookies in Canada WAY less then they do in America, if Lee did a good job they could increase the money he’s paid upwards to about 150K-200K.

So short term he makes more money here, long term he’d be better off in Canada if he has success there.

"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on May 11, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree, too...

He’s completely raw. He had a much wider field to work with in Canada (though, a lot of his highlights DID involve him running up the middle before cutting outside). He runs too high and an NFL LB would clean his clock if he doesn’t get his pads lower. I’m also curious to see how he handles contact, because the people he ran against up north just weren’t bringing an effective “pop” when trying to tackle him. The competition will be MUCH greater if he makes it to the NFL. So training camp should be a real indicator on how he does.

Lastly, just for one final comparison to Goodson and Lee’s chances to make the team…I think we heard a lot more about Goodson’s accomplishments and performance in the recently-held mini-camp than Lee’s. So, again, Goodson seems to have the early lead in that respect…i.e., maybe he has the coaches’ eyes on him a bit more right now. After all, results matter a lot more than stats in this game.

—Neil

by NSpicer on May 11, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Runs to high?

they said that about another running back in the league also, he goes by the name Adrian Peterson! i have noticed he does tend to break it outside alot, but thats where the holes were, to me that shows good vision, im just curious on how well he can catch..

by saltinedeluxe on May 11, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions

runs too high

first of all, for some reason i think the name saltinedeluxe is nice, i might have to name my fantasy football team something similar.

As for him running too high, well he does, and it will get him hurt in the NFL. As for AP, well you just can’t compare him to AP. That’s like comparing every WR who runs a 4.6 40 in the combine to Jerry Rice. I do think, however, that it will not be an overwhelming problem because of his speed. Also, he seems so much “higher” because most defenders outside the NFL just aren’t as tall. I mean, did he run by any 6’6" DEs or 6’5" LBs? I think he has a place in the NFL, but probably not with us. However, if he can make the practice squad, he should do it. He can learn so much from D-Will, Foxy, J-Stew and the intensity of Beason and Smitty.

by usana_gaines on May 12, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions

However...

the point should be made that Lee will be able to stay in better game shape up there.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

You are right on the money Will

I’m not sure his game will translate at the NFL level. He has some speed and strength but he won’t find NFL players such sorry tacklers. If he doesn’t make the Panther roster though someone else might take a chance on him.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 11, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Wasted roster spot

Ryne Robinson is a waste of space on the roster. I’d like to see Robinson dropped completely. Goodson, Lee or my little cousin Seth would probably be better at PR & KR.

Whatever happened to Taye Biddle? He was awesome a few preseasons back and should have made the team over Ryne Robinson that year.

by dudemanhey on May 12, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions

Taye Biddle...

From Taye Biddle’s Wikipedia entry…

On September 8, 2008, Biddle was signed to the practice squad of the New York Giants. The team released wide receiver Marcus Monk from the practice squad to make room for Biddle. On September 24, Biddle was promoted to the active roster after wide receiver Plaxico Burress was suspended for one game. The Giants released/waived Biddle on October 8 and re-signed him to the practice squad the following day….Following the 2008 season, Biddle was re-signed to a future contract on January 12, 2009….Biddle was shot two times, once in the leg and the other in his hand in his hometown of Decatur, Alabama on January 18, 2009 while in his vehicle outside of his mothers apartment building. His injuries are non life threatening. Police have not made an arrest as of January 27th and have not released a motive for the shooting.

by NSpicer on May 12, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Ryne Robinson...

I think Ryne Robinson was “showing improvement” both as a KR/PR guy and as a backup WR. And, if I recall correctly, he was doing very well in training camp before his injury. Then, he had trouble coming back from the injury so the Panthers put him on injured reserve to give him time to heal properly. He says he’s 100% now. But, of course, all athletes will tell you that because they want to play. I’m curious to see if he’s truly recovered. And, if so, what kind of game shape he’ll be in…and whether or not he can pick up where he left off in training camp. He should get a shot to compete no matter what, because he’s got some experience in the Panthers’ system and with our playbook already.

Ryne also had a lot of collegiate accolades when we drafted him. Much like Goodson and Lee. But, Goodson and Lee are still unproven at the NFL level. Some might say Ryne is as well, but he’s done “okay” in most of his games. Still, that’s why the coaches need to evaluate all of them in training camp and see what we’ve got. Given the “flashes” Goodson has shown in minicamp, he’s probably going to get a good, long look, because he’d give the Panthers a more versatile player (i.e., someone who can play the slot WR, act as a KR/PR, and serve as a backup RB. He’s a likely improvement over Ryne (because he can play RB, too) and he’s a likely improvement over the former Nick Goings (because he can play WR, too).

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 12, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Big Plays

If a player is reserved a spot on the roster specifically for the job of KR & PR (like Marc Jones last season, or Ryne Robinson the previous season) then they better be able to make some big plays. I never recall that Robinson has ever showed that capability in actual games.

Marc Jones was immediately picked up by the Titans because he was a pretty decent KR/PR. But in my opinion based on what i’ve seen him do (and i watch all the Panther’s games) Ryne Robinson would be lucky to be on another team’s practice squad.

by dudemanhey on May 12, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...you're all over it...

Career highs:
Mark Jones: 59-yard KR (in 58 returns)
Ryne Robinson: 60-yard KR (in 26 returns, less than HALF of Jones’)

Further, the BLOCKING improved greatly from ‘07 to last year, so that shoudl certainly help Robinson’s cause.

Oh, and I’m amused about your comment about Jones’ “immediate” pickup a month after free agency began. You could tell they had to fight hard for him with that whopping 2 yr, $1.8 mil deal.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh...

And don’t let it bother you that Robinson was a three-time 1000+ yard receiver in college and had exactly TWO fewer catches than Jarrett in their rookie years.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes...

with the way the NFL has been all over Biddle, it’s clear that he’s a better option than Robinson, the NCAA’s PR career leader.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions

MP...you are all over it ;)

Never at a loss for a stat. I had forgotten about Robinson’s college PR record. The blocking was much better in 08 compared to 07 so I am expecting Robinson to win the PR job. He will have a challenger or two though.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Ha...

They’re one thing that’s not subject to opinion. I do expect Robinson to be a primary returner and a 15-25 catch a year guy eventually. He was ultra-productive in college in both roles, and that doesn’t happen by accident, even in the MAC.

by MichaelProcton on May 12, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Nothing like choosing which stats you like

Here are some you might not like though. It breaks my heart to show you them.
In 2008 while playing for the Panthers, Mark Jones averaged 24.0 yards on kickoffs while Ryne Robinson averaged 23.0 yards the year before in 2007. In 2008 while doing punt returns for the Panthers, Jones averaged 11.4 yards while Robinson averaged 8.7 yards. Jone’s longest PR was 55 yards while Robinson’s was 34 yards.

by meanoreno on May 12, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions

you cant leave out the challengers he will have.

goodson could challenge robinson along withlee and munnerlyn, munnerlyn didnt run to well at the combine, but when south carolina recruited him he ran the high 4.3’s, he is very quick and when south carolina did use him on PR (even though SP sucked) he still lit it up. its def gonna be an awesome training camp and im anxoius to see how all these roster spots turn out

by saltinedeluxe on May 12, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Right...

As I said earlier, the BLOCKING was better for Jones than for Robinson. Further, one would expect a 5+ year veteran to perform better than a rookie in his first year. Again…if he was so great, why did we sign him off the street last year? Why did it take a month for him to get signed this year with interest from only one team?

by MichaelProcton on May 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

you are correct, micheal, but who do you thinks better carter or robinson?

blocking was better for jones yes, but jones is a very overrated return man, and hes not even that rated!, he has ZERO, countem! ZERO returns for touchdowns! that goes for recieving, returning punts and kicks!

by saltinedeluxe on May 13, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Excuses

I admit the blocking looked better, but I think that was mainly because of Jones doing better, especially on PRs. You mentioned Jones doing better because he had 5+ years doing it over a rookie, but you failed to mention he was coming off a major knee injury. It was this knee injury why the Bucs cut him in October of 2007. The Chargers picked him up for the 2008 TC and preseason, but they had someone better in Darren Sproles to do returns so they cut him and the Panthers then picked him up.

The truth of the matter is that even after coming off a major knee injury, Mark Jones was a better return man for the Panthers than Ryne Robinson was in 2007 for the Panthers.

If given the chance again Ryne may do better, but I still wouldn’t count on it unless he has learned to focus more on being a return man. Since he was drafted he was busy talking about being a receiver and trying to be a receiver, rather than concentrating first on being what they drafted him for, which is a return specialist. He talked about how Smitty made the jump and how that’s what he wants to do. He talked about how much he was learning off of Smitty about being a WR in the NFL. He needs to learn off Smitty how to do be a good return man first.

by meanoreno on May 13, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

In addition...

Much like Jones last year, Ryne Robinson will now be trying to come back from a knee injury to renew his role as a PR/KR. I’m interested to see how much that might slow him down. If he makes a full recovery and he can pick up where he left off (i.e., he was improving), then he probably sticks. If he seems to have lost a step or “regresses” in terms of his NFL development as a PR/KR…and someone like Goodson or Carter or Munnerlyn, etc. demonstrate more capability in that area, I’d fully expect the Panthers to release Ryne. That’s not saying I’d be happy about it. Just an observation on my part…

by NSpicer on May 14, 2009 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Something has to give here...

too many bodies competing for the role. The Panthers will have to fish or cut bait this a number of guys, Robinson, Carter, Goodson, Munnerlyn, Chery, Beavers. We can;t keep them all

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on May 14, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Robinson has already been cleared...

so at this point, I don’t think it’ll be the knee that’s effecting his performance. Unless, of course, there are still confidence issues there.

by MichaelProcton on May 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

...Seems like you've got plenty of excuses too

A torn patella is nowhere near as major as a ligament tear. It typically requires six months to recover from after surgery, and Jones went 11 months between the injury and his first regular season game.

Further, this crap about “what Robinson was drafted for” was BS. He was drafted to be a football player and contribute in any way he could. That’s why he is listed, practiced, and contributed as a WR (only two fewer catches than Jarrett in ’07 in addition to his primary receiving duties.

by MichaelProcton on May 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Dwayne Jarrett

MP… why do you consistently bring up how he has two fewer catches than Dwayne Jarrett his rookie year as part of your argument. If anything that hurts your argument as Jarrett has been nothing short of a bust (so far) and hasn’t been a productive receiver.

Also production… in the MAC conference… in receiving/special teams doesn’t translate to the pros just because it’s production. I could give two shits about that… wasn’t David Terrell a pretty productive ST/Receiver in the Big 10?

Lastly, instead of just blindly using stats why don’t you tell us why/how he will be better. Is he faster? Better burst? Better hip fluidity/flexibility? Better hands/vision etc?

by Doozer on May 17, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions