Grading the Panthers 2009 Draft
by Jaxon on Apr 26, 2009 11:10 PM EDT
49 comments
No matter how you feel about the Panthers draft at this point I think when the 2009 season rolls around we are really going to like this draft class. Yes the Panthers again mortgaged their future #1 pick but they in turn got a dynamic pass rusher in return. They also filled all the needs we identified going into the draft. You may recall we felt the top 4 needs were as follows:
Nickel CB, DT, DE and then OL
The actual order of selection ended up being DE, S (CB), DT, RB (WR/KR), FB, OT (OG) and CB. Given the Panthers love of the BPA philosophy I'm surprised to see them make picks that seemed to be strictly based on need on all but one pick, the Goodson selection. Let's look at them one at a time.
Round 2, Pick 11 (43) (From 49ers) Everette Brown DE 6'2" 256 Florida State
Pick Analysis: The Panthers pick up a pass rusher who many teams rated as a first-round prospect. The former Seminole has an exceptional first step and is crafty working around the edge. Although he lacks ideal size, his ability to get to the quarterback is a welcome addition to a roster that had only one true pass-rushing threat (Julius Peppers) prior to draft day.
My guess is Brown fell due to his ‘tweener' size, a little small for a 4-3 DE but maybe a little too big for a 3-4 rush LB. I've watched film on this guys assortment of pass rushing moves and he looks like a stud who will take some of the pressure off of DE Julius Peppers once he secures the starting spot. Grade: A
Round 2, Pick 27 (59) Sherrod Martin S 6'1" 198 Troy
Pick Analysis: The Panthers nab a safety with corner-like size and skills. Martin is a tough, hard-nosed player with the movement skills to excel outside in the right scheme. With the Panthers looking for a big corner to add to their sub-package, Martin should get on the field early and often as a rookie.
Though he played Safety this past season Martin will play CB in the nickel package in 2009. This fills a huge need with the release of CB Ken Lucas. Some question the Panthers passing over Sean Smith but I think the reason is Smith is a true Safety whereas Martin will convert to CB. Grade: B
Round 3, Pick 29 (93) Corvey Irvin DL 6'3" 301 Georgia
Pick Analysis: The former Bulldog is an intriguing interior prospect with outstanding athleticism. He's raw as a player but has good potential due to his exceptional combination of size, strength and speed.
Irvin wasn't my first pick at DT but he does seem to fit the cover 2 scheme with his size and athletic ability. He should get in the DT rotation which is what the Panthers needed but some will question whether the Panthers reached for Irvin. If we were going to reach for a player DT is a good spot to do it in my view. Grade: B
Round 4, Pick 11 (111) (From 49ers) Mike Goodson RB 6'0" 208 Texas A&M
Pick Analysis: Goodson is a big back with really impressive quickness and speed. He hasn't been a full-time starter in college, but he has great explosion and change of direction. He may develop into a multi-threat player in the NFL who can play slot receiver, catch screens, run the ball and return kicks.
This pick was a head-scratcher at first but upon examination he's another kid that will be switching positions. The Panthers are apparently thinking Goodson might bring an exciting element to the return game as well other gadget plays in the offense. This is a risky pick but one that could pay big dividends. Grade: C
Round 4, Pick 28 (128) Tony Fiammetta FB 6'0" 245 Syracuse
Pick Analysis: Fiammetta was the best fullback in the draft. He is an excellent blocker yet he has rushing skills, as he was a running back coming out of high school. He also has excellent receiving skills. His blocking is not to be dismissed, though, and he really beefs up an already-powerful Panthers rushing attack.
As much as I love Brad Hoover the Panthers needed to groom a youngster at FB. Fiammetta brings ball-catching ability to the FB position we have never seen in Carolina. Grade: B
Round 5, Pick 27 (163) Duke Robinson OT 6'5" 329 Oklahoma
Pick Analysis: The Panthers pick up a road grader with Robinson. The former Sooner excels at drive blocking and is the big, physical specimen that the team wants on the interior of the offensive line.
Robinson might be the best pick of the second day for the Panthers. Though he slid because of concerns about his conditioning this kid brings the versatility the Panthers love. If RG Keydrick Vincent struggles getting healthy from his groin tear Robinson has the size to step in a perform in the run game. Grade: A
Round 7, Pick 7 (216) (From Oakland) Captain Munnerlyn CB 5'9" 182 South Carolina Pick Analysis: Munnerlyn is a bit undersized as a cornerback but he has return skills and decent speed. He can cover the slot and could make the Panthers roster to bolster the team's depth in the secondary.
Munnerlyn is a playmaker and natural leader who can also return punts effectively. He is also a big hitter in run support and I have no doubt he will challenge for a roster spot. Grade: B
So take my poll fans and let's see how you grade the Panthers pick.
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Goodson's highlights look pretty sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZeiAIJKMY
This guy is breaking tackles like crazy. Looks almost impossible to tackle in space. If he can bring some of this to the return game, then he could be a huge asset. Maybe he can become another Smitty-like return game threat.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I finally got to see the video
Yes, the kid has some great moves and seems to have good vision and uses his blockers well.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Grab yourself an iPhone, Jax
You can watch youtube videos on there if your firewall won’t let you at ’em from work.
Yeah, he’s fantastic in space, and with WRs like ours who love to block, he’s going to be able to make some big plays. Hopefully we’ll give him enough opportunities. If you look at how often Sproles has been used over the past couple of years in San Diego, I think he’s been under-utilized to an extreme measure, especially late in the game when his speed would be most dangerous. I hope we don’t make that same mistake with Goodson.
by r3 on Apr 28, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call Robinson an OT...
He’s been an OG since his freshman year, and he was an All-American there. This will allow Bernardeau to concentrate mainly on being the backup C.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
Also...
*Smith isn’t a safety, the Dolphins will play him at CB.
*Goodson won’t necessarily have to change positions. He will likely be listed as an RB, but he will have the versatility to contribute in other areas. Nick Goings showed us that backups at RB can be a good thing no matter how much talent you have at the position.
*"Fiammetta brings ball-catching ability to the FB position we have never seen in Carolina."
Dunno about all that. Yes, Hoover’s career-high is 26 catches, but Scott Griffin had 40 in ’97.
Overall, I put this draft at a B for filling needs with talent. It might be higher, but we again paid too high a cost to move up.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I disagree on one point...
“…we again paid too high a cost to move up.”
Not so! Look at it like this.
Let’s say we again have a first round pick in the mid- to late-20s, which I think is likely. In other words, we traded pick 28(-ish) for pick 43 and a fourth rounder, #111. That ain’t a bad deal at all, dropping back 15 spots and adding a fourth round pick.
Plus, we get both of those picks a year earlier than they get their pick.
Of course if the world ends, monkeys sleep with lions, a plague of locusts descends, and Carolina goes 6-10, then it was a terrible trade. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
by r3 on Apr 27, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
?
I don’t think a 6-10 season is that crazy of a prediction at all. Our division just got tougher, we won 4 games last year we shouldn’t have, and you can never account for injuries. I think 9-7 is optimistic.
If Brown truly is a 1st round talent though, it doesn’t matter. It means we just are paying a 1st round guy 2nd round money.
HOWEVER…
you can’t deny we just lost a shot at the QB class of ’10, barring something extraordinary like a Peppers trade or one of the QBs falling for some unforeseen reason.
by the bomb dot com on Apr 27, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
"Should Have"?
We “should have” beat Minnesota and NYG at their house! With “should have” logic we can count those as wins, right? That means we were actually 14-2.
Multiple 4 quarter comebacks is not just luck. Bottom line… They were a 12-4 team. With an improved d-coordinator and pass rush, they should be able to maintain that.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Apr 27, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Holee Crapz OMGee...
Lawrence Jackson, the final DE pick of the 1st round last year, got $11.25 mil over five years ($2.25/yr), with $6.1 mil guaranteed ($1.22/yr.) Phillip Merling, the top DE pick of the 2nd year, got $7.455 mil over four years ($1.86 mil/yr), with $5.36 mil guaranteed ($1.34 mil/yr.) So let’s not brag like $500K is a big deal.
Also, if it’s such a great QB class, there will be good prospects available later than usual, including in the 2nd round if we decide that’s the route we’re going to go.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Value chart says...
43 (470)+111 (72)≠ 28 (660)
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if we win the superbowl next year...
trading our 1st rounder for a second and fourth won’t look good based on the draft pick value chart. But screw it, we got a really good player. If you factor in that we were trying to get him earlier in the second round but couldn’t get the deal done, theoretically the value might get a little better. If we traded earlier with the jaguars instead, we would have the 39(510) and 107(80) pick, then that would equal the value of the last pick in the first round (590). Factor in that teams value this year’s pick a little higher than the same pick next year, the trade would look even better. But since we didn’t get Brown earlier, the value of a 1st for a 2nd and 4th is skewed and doesn’t look good. Also, there’s always the possibility that we can have a horrible season and not make the playoffs. Then the first rounder we gave up is much more valuable. My point is that based on the value chart, a late 1st for an early 2nd and 4th could have equal or greater value. But since we couldn’t work out a deal until 43 and since the pick could turn into a mid to early first rounder next year, the trade doesn’t look good. If Everette Brown turns out to be a good player and we make the playoffs next year, its close enough to be a wash in my opinion.
I feel the same way about this deal as I did about the Otah deal
While losing a first rounder sucks, if the player works out, it’s totally worth it.
Sure, it might not match up on the charts.
But the extra year of experience is huge.
Otah fit in perfectly and was totally worth the cost (though it made the mock draft season a complete bore).
Brown… the one thing hurting is that we currently have a ton of DEs (Peppers, Brayton, Johnson, McClover?) that could make it harder for Brown to start from Day 1. But if he lives up to his potential, we’ll have gotten a steal.
Oh, the one other thing that could hurt… this year’s draft was relatively weak, I assume next year will be better.
True Blue Jazz
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
McClover's with the Texans
We’ve got Taylor, though. Four is not a ton, it’s enough. Now we’ve got five, and we’ll go into next year with four. Taylor will probably be moved to the practice squad, unless he really plays well. But you’ve gotta have competition for roster spots every year. It’s certainly possible that Brown could be installed as a starter early on, but he’s going to have to demonstrate that he can stop the run.
This does bring up an interesting question, though. Where does Peppers line up now? Brown isn’t a run-stopping LDE, so will we move Pep back to the left and unleash Brown off the right side? We’ll have to see how that whole thing plays out. I’m interested in watching how this goes down.
by r3 on Apr 28, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, and who is the odd man out?
Brayton or Hilee Taylor is my initial thought
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Brayton's actual production or Hilee's potential production
That’s what it’s going to come down to, in my book. But I really feel that Brayton’s versatility is going to save him, his ability to move inside and rush the passer, and that’ll win out in the end. I reserve the right to be wrong on that point, though, since we don’t know what Meeks’ defensive philosophy will dictate when it comes time to make those cuts.
by r3 on Apr 28, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
And hey...
Let’s not assume Peppers is here for the long haul. As for the LE vs. RE question, it’s been suggested that Peppers will play RE in run situations and move over when Brown comes in teh game.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 28, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha That would be Scott Greene...
who’s not exactly Larry Centers. 40 catches in ’97, 44 catches total for his career.
I voted B
I’d give it a B/B+ grade at the moment, though a true grade obviously depends on how they all pan out.
True Blue Jazz
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I'm not going to bother voting on a grade right now.
It all depends on how these guys do the next few years like Utes said. I think that we got a good group of guys though! I have a good feeling about these guys.
"Once again the trowsers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
One more thing.
I know it’s been hinted at, but I’d like to state it as plainly as I can.
Everette Brown is the second coming of Dwight Freeney. Freeney was 6-1 / 255 coming out of Syracuse. Brown is 6-2 / 256. Freeney has the best spin move I’ve ever seen. Brown has the second best. They both have incredible motors, abuse quality LTs with regularity, and were unstoppable as the only significant pass-rush threats on their college D-lines. Brown’s biggest negative in this comparison is that he’s slower than Freeney, who ran a 4.42 40 at the 2002 combine. His biggest positive is that he plays the run better than Freeney.
But the glorious thing is that Brown’s coming to our team under Meeks, who knows exactly what to do with undersized speed rushers like Freeney and Brown.
I couldn’t be more excited about this selection if I drank a pot of coffee and popped a half-dozen Adderall. In fact, I feel the same way about nearly all of the players in our draft class, except…
If I see a highlight package of plays made by Sherrod Martin, it’ll be the first. I can’t find any footage of the kid. I’m not uncomfortable about this, just confused. And didn’t we take a CB and turn him into a Safety last year (Godfrey)? And the year before (Wilson)? Now we’re doing the opposite? I just don’t get it.
He's also been compared in a similar fashion with DeMarcus Ware
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Brown pick has Meeks fingerprints all over it
I think this was his Panther’s welcome gift. Even if Pep leaves next year, this will be very Meeks-like… Johnson and Brown speed rush ends. But with Pep we could really do some damage. Brown and Pep are just going to make each other even better. Who said it?… Tha Matt Ryan sandwich?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Apr 27, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
real comparisons
It seems that this is all good from the outside looking in, but how do these guys compare to who’s already on the roster? I say that because I doubt Brown is as fast as Hilee Taylor, and Stanley McGlover had an incredible motor. Charles Johnson was a pass rush specialist with (I think) 10.5 sacks as a senior. Will Brown really be much better than those guys. From the sounds of it, yes he will be, but we’ll see when training camp starts.
As for Goodson, is he any better at returning kicks than Ryne Robinson or Mark Jones. If he’s not as good as Jones, then we actually took a step back.
Let me put it another way, I don’t give much credit to these reports until I hear what Jaxon has to say (and others if possible) when he watches them at training camp. Those first hand accounts from him are very informative since I obviously can’t make it.
One more thing, though, I predict Peppers will sign the tender and be traded for a 2010 1st rd pick and maybe a 3rd also.
They will trade Pep at some point before the trade deadline
unless he re-signs. Maybe Godfrey gets moved to CB and Martin plays FS? Godfrey didn’t exactly light it up last season and he seems better at press coverage.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Goodson seems to be able to break tackles
Mark Jones seem to always fall down at fist contact. I think Goodson is going to be much better than Jones at making people miss, and potentially taking a few to the house.
But then again I am just basing that off of college YouTube clips.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Apr 27, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't compare like that...
Brown is much thicker than Taylor (1"+ shorter, but 15+ lbs. heavier), and with VERY similar 40 times. Why is Johnson’s 10.5 sacks somehow more impressive than Brown’s 13?
And how is Goodson a “step back?” Name the player we had on our roster before who could capably contribute as a returner, slot returner, and third-down back.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Name the player we had on our roster before who could capably contribute as a returner, slot returner, and third-down back.
Winslow Oliver.
I think we all mean "Slot Receiver" not "Slot Returner"
And Oliver is not the correct answer at either receiver or back, unless you count preseason games. In which case, we had a number of spindly, fast, Pro Bowl-caliber WRs on our roster as well. (Note: exactly zero of those made the actual, regular-season-based Pro Bowl.)
Besides, in the context of this discussion, I think the challenge is to “name the player we had last season who could do all of those things.” We didn’t have one, since Mark Jones wasn’t much of a receiver and didn’t rush. I think Ryne could be a more capable slot returner receiver, but again he’s not a runner.
I’m feeling pretty good about Goodson, let’s see what he can do when we put some pads on him and he’s staring down Beason and Harris. Or when Kemo puts some weight on him. Or he has to get open against Gamble. Then we’ll know.
by r3 on Apr 28, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes...
Pre-draft was my point, not in franchise history. I don’t think Oliver has much left to offer.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 28, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Just look at Browns highlights on youtube...
for 2008 alone. It gets me pretty excited about what he could bring to the team.
FB and RB
Hoover retire?? NEVER! He’ll be with the Panthers another dozen years! OK – maybe not. Hadn’t really thought about it, but that makes sense.
Having another runningback is not a bad thing, just from the wear standpoint, but things like a full-house backfield, or shifting Goodson to a slot/end before the snap, should mean huge mismatches.
by panthersnbraves on Apr 27, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
Duke Robinson
I think it is our greatest pick of the draft. He did fall a lot because people did not like the way he performed his senior season, but I think HurFox knew that we would be upset if they didn’t take him. He wasn’t even contacted by the Panthers pre-draft. I think it is a super steal and it definitely give us a Bish grade. A lot of sites are giving us C’s. I will say B-. It was a safe draft. I am happy with the picks, maybe not Martin or Gooden, but I advantages like Martin’s size and a RB that we can use for explosive plays. I would have rather seen a DT earlier but I guess if Pep moves on then we did do the right thing.
Also I would like to ask a question about Duke. I was watching video on him and it says on his jersey “G. Robinson.” Is Duke a nickname? What should I call him?
Nevermind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Robinson
George. Not too much information. Hopefully he can fill up some text boxes soon.
we need a QB
I LOVE JAKE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE BUT WE NEED A QB WE HAVE ALL THE PARTS JUST NEED A QB WHO CAN MAKE ALL THE THOWS. I THANK HIM FOR ALL HE HAS DONE BUT IT IS TIME TO WAKE UP WITH JAKE BEHIND THERE WE WILL ONLY BE A PLAYOFF TEAM NOT A SUPERBOWL TEAM COME ON FOX!!!!!!!!
No offense, but I hate this kind of argument. Like you said, we have all the parts now… but Jake is our best option. Who would we have replaced him with? A rookie? McCown? Cutler would have been the only option, and we would have had to trade half our team and picks to get him. Would we really be in a better situation? This is a run first team. Jake knows the system and has the respect of the entire organization. You couldn’t replace him with anyone better… to win NOW.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Apr 27, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello
Newbie here….been lurking for a few months, finally signed up today.
I was not expecting much to come out the draft since we had only five picks and very few picks in the early rounds. Some thoughts
- The trade was fantastic…I can understand why Brown would be an exciting addition to our defense. He seems like a team player and he will fit into Meeks system. It also meant that we would get an additional pick this year.
- Losing next years first round pick does not bother me…it is clear from this draft that if they believes the right player is available next year (maybe QB) the management is willing to mortage picks in the future to get him.
- I actually love the Goodson pick. I was worried sick last year about either D-Will or J-Stew getting hurt and how that would affect our running game. Having an 3rd RB was a essential as far as I am concerned. I still remember the year we ended up on our 4th string RB….
- Every pick seemed to be fairly sensible given our situation. The only question mark is Sherrod Martin who I hear has had issues with fitness. So maybe that pick was a bit of a Gamble. Let’s hope ti works out.
- I am also happy that Hunter Cantwell was signed. He has potential and I am kind of curious to see how he shapes up. I can see him getting up the depth chart and who knows maybe he will be the first choice to back up Jake by the time the seasons starts ;)
Go Panthers!
Welcome to the blog pieterzen!
What do you like about Cantwell? I would imagine the depth chart behind Jake is wide open for McCown, Moore and anyone else.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Good call about RBs...
Nick Goings was pretty well terrible last year. Thank goodness our top two stayed strong.
Cantwell was the #1 QB in this draft before the year began in some places. That kind of physical ability means something.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 27, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I never got over the blown block
that led to the punt block against the Bears
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Thanks, Jaxon
Regarding Cantwell, I have not seen much of him (just bits from a couple of games last year) but he has the arm strength and the touch to make most throws. Technically he seems solid, so they have someone with a good skill set to work with. I also understand that he is also someone with great character – he could have switched schools and picked up valuable experience elsewhere several times but he stuck with Louisville where he backed up Brohm
If nothing else we might see the McCown and Moore really step it up since they have one more guy in the mix. Won’t be surprised if one of them ends up being cut come pre-season.
The 4th QB last year (Ricard)
was not much of a challenge to Moore. He was an athlete but didn’t have the accuracy on his throws
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
You know who I'm interested in seeing at training camp this year?
McCown. We got him after camp last year, so we haven’t been able to see him do much of anything (and thank god for that).
But I’m definitely interested in seeing how he practices, how he carries himself, how he does in the barrel toss… all those things where Jake sets himself apart as the team’s top QB.
As for Cantwell, SI didn’t give him a positive write-up. “Does not sense pressure in the pocket, lacks a sense of timing, and shows little in the way of awareness. Rarely shows he’s got his finger on the pulse of the game. Erratic accuracy and poor pass placement. Struggles finding the safety, does not correctly read defenses, and constantly throws into coverage.”
Now, I know some folks are saying “Lacks awareness, doesn’t read defenses, and throws into coverage? Doesn’t that guy already start for us at QB?” Yeah, real funny Mr. Funny Man. If there’s one thing you can say about Delhomme, though, he absolutely has his finger on the pulse of the game. Usually, he’s pounding on the game’s chest and giving it CPR, whether it needs it or not.
Plus
he can’t roll out of the pocket (Cantwell, that is).
Pretty much, he’d be a solid QB if he had the best pass-blocking line ever, and if the defense was a bunch of 3’ tall midgets.
True Blue Jazz
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
But...
the kid’s got all the physical tools in the world. Coaching will determine how good he can (will?) be.
by MichaelProcton on Apr 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked this draft. Considering the fact we had no first rounder, I was very disinterested in this draft this year (and now probably will feel the same next year). But I feel that Carolina had a damned good draft considering their situation. I love the Brown pick. I have seen some of his moves and I can’t wait to see him on the field.
I also felt that Duke Robinson was a steal as well. Carolina, IMO did exactly what the team needed to do. We got a DE that can possibly take over for Pep (but never replace him), a nickle CB (that I hope pans out like #30 did this year), a DT (don’t know much about him), and a OG/OT in Duke Robinson that could become the steal of the draft.
Hell, I think Hurney/Fox did a pretty good job this year. Grade: A
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Yeah, I'm liking it the more I look at it
If Goodson, Fiametta and Munnerlyn make the squad then it could an A+. The rest of the picks should be able to secure spots.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Interview with Tony Fiammetta
We had a pre-draft interview with Panthers draftee Tony Fiammetta:
by PatriotsDaily.com on Apr 30, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions
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