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Panthers Move to Tampa-2 Defense Might Be Complicated

It's a forgone conclusion that with the hiring of DC Ron Meeks  the Panthers will move to the Tampa-2 defense. After watching their recent machinations to get under the salary cap I have to question that conclusion. If you are unfamiliar with the Tampa-2 and how it differs from a straight 4-3 you might want to read this first

Before I get into that I have to touch on the post that got me going down this path. I was reading a very funny post from our Colts blogger who is predicting the Bucs defense is going to suck next year (good for us) because they hired former Colts Broncos DC Jim Bates. He went so far as to label a Bates defense as "Two Fatties in the Middle" defense. As I continued to read it suddenly lost its humor as it sounded more and more like the Panthers defense. He then describes how a no-huddle offense will quickly dispatch a ‘fatty' laden defense and sites specific cases. 

But hey, I'm not too worried about our defense since we are moving towards the Tampa-2 defense, right? Wait...STOP!! I have to correct something else first...I cannot accept for a moment that our defense will be called the "Tampa" 2. Can we all agree on that? Would the Redskins ever name anything associated with the team "Cowboy"? Certainly not. So let's go with the term Cover-2 going forward, okay? Yes, I realize the Cover-2 is slightly different than the Tampa-2 but again...you get my point I hope.

 

 

Star-divide

Are the Panthers really moving to a Cover 2 or are we keeping our "Two Fatties in the Middle" 4-3 defense? One of the big differences in the two is the size of the DT's. The Colts blogger holds up Booger McFarland as the proto-typical Cover-2 DT. McFarland was 6'0" and 300 lbs but was/is very quick. He may actually be a little heavier than a Cover 2 DC might want. Is that what we currently have on our DL? Not exactly. DT Maake Kemoeatu runs 345 lbs and was just extended on his contract so he isn't going anywhere. On the other hand DT Damione Lewis is listed at 305 lbs. He has some quickness and just may be a good fit. We are still showing Gary Gibson on the roster, he runs 285 and of course Tyler Brayton has played DT at 280. Rookie Cheesehead Nick Hayden is at 290 but newly signed J'Vonne Parker is 325. My impression is that outside of Lewis I doubt any of these guys have the speed the Cover 2 DT needs.

So are the Panthers suddenly looking for a different type of DT than those we've been salivating over? Is speed now more important than size? If speed is the priority than we can cross BJ Raji (337 lbs), Ron Brace (330) and Chris Baker (326) off the draft chart. They are just too big and too slow. Others who don't have the size but are still considered too slow for the position would be Fili Moala (5.09 40), Alex Magee (5.05) and Vance Walker (5.33).

So who does that leave as possible Cover 2 DT's the Panthers might pursue? It still leaves highly rated Peria Jerry (299, 2.94), Ziggy Hood (300, 291) and Jerron Gilbert (288, 4.87). Borderline considerations might lie with Sen'Derrick Marks (306, 5.01) and Dorell Scott (312, 4.92) among the Top 12 on Walter Football. 

Some later round options might be Corvey Irwin (301, 4.99), Ricky Jean-Francois (295, 4.83) and Clinton McDonald (285, 4.80). Prospect info courtesy of Walter Football.

To date I haven't heard of a fundamental shift in the defense from HC John Fox just assumptions based on Meeks hiring. If you go by the off-season moves to date there is no indication of a change. I doubt Fox will address such a question until at least after the draft. So I'll ask you fine friends of the feline nation. Are we switching to a Cover-2 or are we sticking with "Two Fatties in the Middle"? What is your preference?

Poll
What are you hoping the Panthers will do with their defensive scheme next year?
Stay with their base 4-3
49 votes
Switch to Meeks version of the Cover 2
82 votes
Switch to the 3-4
82 votes
Switch to something completely new and different
50 votes

263 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments |

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Real quick correction

I very much appreciate the praise and the article link, but Jim Bates was never the Colts DC. Are the Panthers switching to Tampa-2, or will Meeks run Fox’s defense?

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Mar 5, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

Also, FYI

The Colts traded to sign Tyler Brayton last year to play DT in Meeks’ Tampa-2.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Mar 5, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That's interesting...Brayton may be a fit then

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 5, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Brayton

I have a comment about him at DE and how I don’t like his production as a starter on the previous post from yesterday. I would be perfectly fine with 4.5 sacks from Brayton as a DT and I would like to see him play that position. My only problem with this is I just don’t know how I feel about having such small defensive tackles. Small is a relative term of course but I do find it hard to believe John Fox is going to be influenced by Ron Meeks to change his feelings on having fatties in the middle.

by bengoodfella on Mar 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Got to be able to stop the run at some point

Like when playing the Giants. But the reality is that we play more passing-oriented offenses.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 5, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

You are right

We still have to play Michael Turner twice a year and I would like for the Panthers to be able to stop the run a little bit. Of course if we moved Brayton to DT, then that leaves an even larger hole at DE. Charles Johnson and Hilee Taylor do seem to fit the Meeks model for DE’s, so color me intrigued concerning them.

by bengoodfella on Mar 5, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Correction made...not sure how I crossed that up

I guess because I was reading a Colts blog

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 5, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Jerry & Hood

are probably the 2 guys I would really love to see the Panthers land in the first round (Peppers trade is being assumed).
Raji would be nice, but we’re not getting a top-10 pick for Peppers (if anything).

I voted for Meeks Cover-2… our D obviously isn’t working, we might as well try something new.

by UtesFan89 on Mar 5, 2009 7:18 PM EST reply actions  

Sadly

Hood might be playing his way out of “Panther territory” and into the mid/late first round at worst

by UtesFan89 on Mar 6, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

...

Raji is a top-10 pick
Jerry is top-25.
Hood is top-25.
Gilbert is a mid-2nd rounder (some mocks are already throwing him into the first).

Marks might be the best option left at the Panthers first pick.

by UtesFan89 on Mar 6, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Walter has us getting Hood at #59

All the focus on the deep OL class might allow Hood to fall to us. I’m liking him at #59.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 6, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm for the Cover-2

Our linebackers seem to fit the bill, as does at least Chris Harris in our secondary. The only problem is (still) our D-Line.

by bravesfan91 on Mar 5, 2009 7:59 PM EST reply actions  

Don't know where to file this

But Torry Holt wants out of St. L. Who doesn’t, I guess.

Anyway, he has stated before that he’d like to play for the Panthers.

What do you guys think about this? This guy is a homegrown (Gibsonville, suckas!) badass. Sure he’s getting on in years, but he’s always been a playmaker, even when his QB and OL have been mediocre.

What would you guys give up as a trade for him if they don’t release him?

Anything? Picks? Lucas?

Oh, and has anyone commented on Cutler yet?

God, I’d go after him hard, just as this article says we should.

Worth the read just for this bit about the 49ers:


I think Cutler wouldn’t fit in with the team’s “Let’s not have any talent of offense” philosophy.

by the bomb dot com on Mar 6, 2009 8:56 AM EST reply actions  

He'll be released

no reason to make a trade.
Plus, our cap situation makes a trade near impossible, I’m reading.

He’s due some money soon from the Rams… he’ll be cut before then unless some team stupidly decides to trade for him. In which case… let them. The Panthers shouldn’t even consider it.

But once he hits FA, I think the Panthers have to go after him.

by UtesFan89 on Mar 6, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Cutting Lucas and restructuring Delhomme would make room

I’d like to see it happen. He would be a legitimate threat opposite Smitty, even if he doesn’t get the ball much. It could only help.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 6, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt Cutler is really available

Who would be their QB? Simms? Rosenfels? Why would they do that?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 6, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

principle

We can’t switch to a “tampa 2” just on principle. The article has a great point with that. I personally like the 4-3 as it is versatile enough for cover 2, cover 3, quarters and blitzes. The problem with 4-3 is you need a good almost great DT. That’s why the Skins D needed Haynesworth more than the Titans D.

What I don’t like about the cover 2 is that it is more of bend but don’t break philosophy that tries to surround the ball carrier with 3 defenders at all times. That’s why the seam is a weakness. As a former LB, I think a defense has to attack and disguise its look. I’d rather see us go to a 4-6 than a tampa 2.

As far as personnel, Maake is more of a 3-4 DT, as he was in Baltimore before landing here, and Harris is a big hitter but a little average on coverage. Other than Diggs, our LB’s do fit the system.

We need to get rid of Maake. No need to have a fatty in the middle if he isn’t commanding double teams.

by J C on Mar 9, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

4-6?

Is that with a single deep safety? The Bears ran a 4-6 back in the 80’s right? What’s the mix of LB’s to CB’s in a 4-6?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Mar 9, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

46

The 46 had the eight men in the box on every play: the four d-linemen, the three linebackers and one safety playing up on the line like an extra linebacker. A safety like former-Cowboy Roy Williams would fit well in this scheme. Technically the 46 still starts three linebackers to two corners, but with the other safety playing up at the line it could be considered 4-2.

Unless I’m mistaken, both of the Ryan brothers have used their daddy’s defense in packages in both Baltimore and Oakland. The “flex” defense that Baltimore ran under Ryan did it particularly well.

by bravesfan91 on Mar 9, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

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