Panthers Pick Apart Bucs 16-6
by Jaxon on Dec 6, 2009 6:35 PM EST
69 comments
The Panthers took care of business today beating a one win Bucs team that is still breaking in a new QB. The game featured two young QBs trying to rally their teams. The Panther defense made sure their new starter got off to a good start intercepting Bucs QB Josh Freeman 5 times on their way to their fifth victory.
Here's some quick hits with further analysis coming:
- LB Jon Beason led the defense with two red zone INTs and 6 tackles
- RB Jonathan Stewart got his first start of the season and responded with 120 yards and TD on 26 carries
- QB Matt Moore was a pedestrian 14 of 20 for 161 yards with one INT but more importantly he limited his mistakes
- WR Steve Smith was mostly silent (3 for 78 yds) outside of a big catch late in the game (66 yards)
- CB Richard Marshall led the defense with 9 tackles but had trouble covering Bucs WR Antonio Bryant (5 for 116 yds)
- K John Kasay was 3 for 3 on FGs
- Back-up RB Terrel Sutton played well (6 for 38, 6.2 ypc) showing good moves on some inside runs
- With PR Captain Munnerlyn sidelined from a concussion CB Chris Gamble muffed his only punt return catch giving the Bucs a short field
- SS Chris Harris had 5 tackles and an INT and led the run support from the secondary. He also short circuited a pass by Freeman on a blitz where he hit the QBs arm as he was throwing
- The Panthers were a paltry 3 for 11 (27%) on 3rd downs, an on-going trend in 2009
The biggest question from this game is did you see enough from Matt Moore to let him start next week even if Jake Delhommes finger is better? Should he start the remainder of the season?
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game ball goes to matt moore. going out there when nothing is expected of him and putting that effort in. great job!
I gave the game ball to Beason
him activating beast mode and getting those 2 goal-line interceptions is what really won the game for us.
Moore didn’t lose the game, but he didn’t win it either. Beason won the game.
The +1 was to you... the other replies came while I was typing lol
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
+2
The coaches didn’t allow Matt to win or lose the game. Jon flat out was a game changer, not a play maker.
BTW, did Peppers play today?
Yes..
Brought pressure very, very often and made a key run stop in the red zone. Seen him a lot.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
I didn't see the game
Listened to it on headphones setting up a school function. All I saw was one sack for a 4 yard loss…..
good for him.
Yeah, his stats didn’t look very good but he seemed to consistently pressure Freeman (could’ve possibly attributed to some of his int’s but I’d have to watch it again before making that suggestion). I’m also pretty sure his run stop saved a TD, I don’t believe anyone would’ve been able to make the stop in time had Peppers not filled, shot, destroyed the gap. I thought it was a good day for him overall.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Good for him
As much as I have been down on him, good for him.
the team needs something to build on, and maybe good playing on both sides of the ball with players fighting for next years roster spot may make for some good games, and hopefully wins.
Beason won the game
two picks to save TD’s, along with his presence in the run game. Our best player on defense, hands down.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 7, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'd just thought I'd throw this out there.
Take away Moore’s interception and he has a 98.12 QB rating for the day. He had a 70% pass completion regardless.
I really like this guy. If our offensive line can give him some help, he’ll really do us some good.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
The game ball should clearly go to Josh Freeman.
Hat tip to the Panther’s D. Came up strong when needed.
Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow
At least give our guys cred for catching those errant passes
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
It has to be Jon Beason
I respect everyone’s opinion… but if you selected someone else you weren’t watching the same game I was.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 7:29 PM EST reply actions
You can have the +1 too haha - completely agree.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
+1
Absolutely. Moore was more than serviceable, but he was only a piece of the victory.
Beason and Harris seemed to have monster days. Harris was all over the place making hits, meanwhile Beason was crazy. Those interceptions were great.
Stewart didn’t disappoint in his first start, either. I think we really found a gem in Sutton, he could have gotten a few more carries in my opinion but I can’t blame them, Stewart was on a roll. Hate that we didn’t get to see any of Goodson, though.
That interception definitely can’t be held against Moore. If we don’t start Moore for the rest of the season, someone’s job should be under scrutiny. We really need to see what he’s capable of. As much as I’d love to have a cake walk to end the season, this schedule is for the best. It will give us a real evaluation of Moore and let us know when to draft a QB.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Goodson dug a hole
in the preseason with all of his fumbles. He will have to work on that before Fox gives him the ball. I still think he has potential thought.
Yeah...the fumbles has to be the reason he's not getting the carries over the UDFA
Sutton does look pretty good. Nice pick up off the waiver wire.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
They are two different types of runners
Sutton is a North/South guy, Goodson is an East/West. Sutton will go straight ahead and pound out those yards, he runs hard. Goodson will reverse course and head the other way in the backfield, it worked well in the preseason, but he was playing guys slower than him, in a regular season game he won’t get away with it.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 8, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
and if he [Goodson] does, we've got a very special player on our hands! lol
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
The thing that makes the Moore situation so tough to evaluate is John Fox.
Fox is (and should be) fighting for his job right now. If the team ends 6-10 it will be very tough for him to justify to the Big Cat why he should be around next season.
Whether we all agree or not, Fox has it entrenched in his mind that Jake is his best option to win.
Our schedule was a backwards meal, we just finished our last bite or cake now we’re heading into the steak. Moore was servicable today, no doubt, but was today’s performance good enough to beat New England? Absolutely not. We can’t (nor should we) rely on the defense to bail us out the way they did.
In order to get more points Matt Moore is going to have to learn how to hit his receivers in stride, and I’m not talking about dink and dunk passes to outlet routes. He hit Smith on the deep ball, other than that he never gave a receiver the opportunity to get any YAC. This team’s passing game lives and dies on Steve Smith and the YAC. The deep ball is nice, the deep ball is the seasoning, but the quick hitches, slants are screens are the steak.
Wow… that’s a lot of food references. Time to eat some dinner methinks.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 7:36 PM EST reply actions
True but I’d rather Moore give us 150 yards, a touchdown, and 1 interceptions than Delhomme give us 300 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 5 interceptions, especially against a team like New England that can score at any time.
I’d rather just eat a hot dog if my previous steaks were known to contain food poisoning. (just to continue the food references :) )
Honestly, I don’t think Delhomme nor Moore are going to be good enough to beat New England. We’re going to have to win in every other aspect of the game to allow whichever QB we play to manage the game. With that, I’d rather give Moore the chance to show us what he’s worth (and possibly surprise us?). Worse come to worst, we don’t make the play offs and realize we must draft a QB with our first pick.
I really don’t believe Fox goes anywhere after the season, though.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Let's continue this food analogy.
You’re taking a date out, and it’s a really important occasion, this is the kind of date that can make or break a relationship (lets assume the girl is extremely shallow).
Do you go to the restaurant that you’ve been too 100 times before, and 60 times it’s good, 20 times it’s out of this world and 20 times it’s horrible. You may fear that 20% rearing its ugly head, but you can gamble that at least it wont be utterly horrible 80% of the time.
or
Do you go to a new restaurant. It could be amazing, or it could be more horrible than you ever imagined. All you have to go off was one mediocre meal, it wasn’t awful, but it certaintly didn’t impress… and after all, this is a night you need to make sure you impress.
Perhaps more people are gamblers, but in this scenario I’m going to the old standby, even if it means risking a horrible outing.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Who's his wife in this scenario?
Please don’t say Jerry Richardson.
I’m only now getting over the Delhomme/Fox “Brokeback Mountain” poster.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
LOL... love the analogy there..
But what if that really good restaurant hasn’t been quite what it used to be since going through renovations? And they even found rats in the kitchen ;) (Ok, maybe no rats)?
(I’m pretty sure you were referencing the Panthers org with the shallow girl but I’m using her for our QB situation lol)
Are you looking to marry this girl? Will it really work if she’s so shallow? Or are you just trying to get some tonight and tomorrow is a new? What if there’s another girl that you’ve been talking to but need to get to know her better? Sure you can enjoy your night and worry about the consequences tomorrow but when do you consider who you want to be with long term? You’ve got a shallow girl and a girl you barely know, you might fall for one of them (maybe she’ll get over her shallow ways, maybe the other is your soul mate) or you might need to go examine a dating website and find someone new.
So I’m nearly lost in my own analogy now – too many girls wanting to eat out at too many restaurants. haha. I just feel that though Delhomme might be our best option to win a few games, we really need to see Moore to know when to draft a QB, unless we just plan to draft one anyways.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
I agree that we need to know about Moore to know how we draft.
My analogy is designed wit Fox’s thinking in mind, not the fanbase’s.
After all, it’s none of our jobs on the line if the Panthers lose out.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Where we differ
I agree with a little of what you are saying – but I don’t think Fox’s job is in jeopardy this year (and IMO it shouldn’t be – but that is for another discussion really).
Sure, if Richardson listened to only the majority of the fan base than Fox might have been fired twelve times already during his time here. Fortunately, he doesn’t.
Fox knows he needs to find out more about Moore in order to help this team win next year and I think that he believes he will be here next year. Honestly, if the next four games mean so much in evaluating Fox as a coach then I think we are using the wrong tools to evaluate. When I think about the overall picture of Fox’s stay here, I would personally be blindsided if Jerry didn’t at least let him finish out his deal and then decide from there.
Matt Moore...
needs to definitely polish up some areas of his game including the YAC you described. The best way to do that is to play. Per the Carolina Growl…
Coach John Fox was impressed with Moore, who was starting for the first time since December 2007.
"I thought he did pretty good," said Fox, who named Moore his starter last week after Jake Delhomme injured his finger in last week’s loss at the New York Jets. "He (Moore) had the one turnover. I thought it was something to build on. You know, he hasn’t been in there in a long time. I thought, for the most part, he made pretty good decisions. All in all, he played well enough for us to win and that’s key."
Fox basically established Moore as next week’s starter at New England. "I’d say there’s a good chance of that," Fox said of Moore starting against the Patriots. "Again, I don’t like to back ourselves into a corner. But I thought he did fine today."
Fox would have said the exact same thing...
if they would have asked him if Steve Beuerlein was coming out of retirement to play next week.
He will use his “I’d say there’s a good chance of that” every single time.
“Is the sky blue?” – “I’d say there’s a good chance of that.”
“Is it going to rain tomorrow?” – “I’d say there’s a good chance of that.”
“Is your job in jeopardy?” – “I’d say there’s a good-oh, hey, wait a minute… Uh… It is what it is. No more questions please.”
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Moore is key to John Fox having any hope of retaining his position.
Okay so Matt Moore comes in and without his one pick would have a 98.1 QB rating which is pretty darn good for a guy that hasn’t started since 2007. Moore looked good today and his passes were on the money for the most part unlike Freeman who was all over the place especially in the red zone. Today the Panther’s pass defense has to given some props for out playing the bucs in the redzone.
I am so tried of hearing about how good Freeman is going to be and Moore was basically ignored by the commentators for todays game on Fox. All they could talk about was Freeman and Moore quitely had a nice game and managed it well.
As for Fox and if he wants any chance to maintain his position in Carolina then he needs to simply have Matt Moore tear up the rest of the season winning in my opinion 75 % of the games left. We need Moore to lead us to a win over the Patriots, Giants, and Saints to finish the year for Fox to keep his job securely.
In another side note I am also tired about hearing how so many teams are going to jump on John Fox should he be fired (who the Bills, Browns, or Lions the same loser teams that are always looking for coaches every offseason), what a great coach he is, etc…. Granted he hasn’t done to bad this year with all the injuries but to be great coach you have to win the big game and Fox hasn’t . Fox is a good coach but greatness is earned not given away freely. Now with that said Fox is the best coach the Panthers have ever had and easily has had the most playoff success but the Bill Cowher in Raleigh and with him looking and sounding crazy as a TV analyst on CBS I have no doubt that he wants to get back to the sidelines and no better team to do that with then the one right down highway.
Finally E. Brown got a lot of playing time today and he really looked good getting towards the QB. This is why I think Peppers is going to stay b/c he likes the “fly to the football style” of defense and Meeks is trying to create another Mathis / Freeney DE’s setup here in Carolina with Peppers and Brown. Brown needs to work on his wrap up tackling though b/c he should have had like 3 or 4 sacks today for sure.
If Moore performs then Fox may get one more season and another free agent class and draft to show what he can do. Of course Peppers may stay or not and Delhomme is going to have to be released at the end of the season.
Go Panthers great win today boys and keep it up b/c if Miami can beat the Pats I hope we can too.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 6, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions
One more side note.
R. Marshall looked lost, foolish, and pretty much out of place with out Munnerlyn on the field. We see now that Marshall cannot cover any type of top receiver in the league b/c Bryant dusted him on more then one occasion as did Stovall among others.
It is said when CJ Wilson had to start covering Bryant and did a much better job then marshall did and why in the world is Marshall listed in the poll ? Should have listed CJ Wilson instead.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 6, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Marshall has a serious size disadvantage.
He struggled with Edwards last week, Bryant this week. Wilson is a much bigger guy, so he matches up better against the big lanky wideouts we have played recently.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 7, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
He's an aggressive, physical guy
But so is my little brother, and when you’re a foot and and 50 pounds disadvantaged trying to take on your big brother, it doesn’t typically work out well. Marshall’s physicality allows him to make the tackle, but covering the guy is a little harder.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 8, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
Still like we are going to lose to the giants again call me crazy which is why I left them out of the above posting as far as winning 75% of the games left.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 6, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting assessment...
Remember that Freeman is a big boy when it comes to getting sacks on him. Freeman is 5 inches taller than Brown and just under his weight.
Interesting comments about Marshall… Didn’t really notice him, can’t wait for PFF to post the stats to get a breakdown.
With our remaining schedule, I’ll gladly support your hope of winning 75% :)
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
HEY!!!!! Who is this Martin, WR?
I see he caught one pass. Any info?
Where was Jarrett?
Charley Martin off the practice squad.
I didn’t see Jarrett at all.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 6, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Wondering if anyone else thought this.....
Please keep in mind that I am not bashing Moore and I am not advocating to start Delhomme. I want Moore to start the next four games regardless of how he played today (and he played fine).
But Moore seems to be playing too conservative. I know I know, he is the QB in a John Fox offense, but still. I think everyone would agree that Moore played good today, but our offense managed 16 points with a running game that torched the sorry Bucs D all day long. Does that not worry anyone? At some point, the QB will have to make plays to help us win. Sure, he made a good throw to Smitty when he was wide open (doubt that would have happenned if Talib was in there) but what happens when we face good defenses? What happens if Freeman DOESN’T forget what color jersey he is wearing in the redzone? What happens when our running game isn’t working as well as it should be? What happens if I stop asking questions? I’m not looking for DIRECT answers to these questions, just some input from some other Carolina faithful here.
Now, I know Moore is young and he is still evolving but at some point we need to be putting more points up on the board, especially when we are running it all over a bad defense.
I think today was more of a confidence boost than anything...
He hasn’t started since 2007 — he needed to get his feet wet and take things slowly. Now that he has done that, I hope that he will come out with more confidence and be willing to take more shots down field against New England (if he plays, that is).
I like what Matt Moore brings to the table. He didn’t make many mistakes (he had the one pick — but it was a ricochet type interception) and he made some nice throws. I think he should get the chance to play for the rest of the year just to show what he has.
As far as what happens … it’s not about wins or losses anymore, sadly. We’re pretty much out of the playoff race, so now it’s our job to 1.) play spoiler, and 2.) evaluate talent for the future.
I could get behind that thinking
That it was just a confidence builder today. I could also get behind the thinking that maybe he was just instructed to play that conservatively. No right answers here people.
Conservative play calling plus...
making very fast reads. for the most part, Moore was getting the ball out very quickly. Given the O-line, and pressure he was getting, I believe he played very smart, and got the ball out of his hands with a lot of confidence. I was very impressed with his pressence in the pocket, evaded a couple of rushers, looked for the solid completions and spread the ball around. That will be the key in the future, he didn’t look at Steve Smith only, and I felt his passes were pretty accurate. With our O-line the way it is, you have to take what you can get, plus what the defense gives, so all in all, i thought they took the chances when they had the opportunity. I’d like to see more, but if the o-line can’t keep the pressure off, he’s at least hitting receivers that wear our jerseys. Also, agree, the one pick was not a bad throw or decision- good defense, and we do have to expect they will have a few of those once in a while.
+1
Great way to put it. I mean, he even hit Charly Martin for a completion. Though I can’t confirm, there’s no way I’ll believe Martin was the 1st read… I really don’t even believe he would have been his 2nd read… That’s one of the things I really liked, most of his passes were complete.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Tampa is last against the run... 11th against the pass..
So as bad as they are against the run, they aren’t as terrible against the pass as it would seem given their record. I don’t think Talib would have had any baring on the bomb to Smith.. The corner got scorched and the safeties were just out of “help” range. I think the only difference that could’ve been made there would be the safeties being over top to play Smith tighter.
Your questions are valid and that’s exactly why Moore needs to start for the rest of this season. No one can answer those questions right now but hopefully, in a few weeks, everyone will know the answer. Those answers will play a key role in when, or if, we draft a QB. (I want a rookie even if Moore plays great but that’s just me)
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
Thoughts
Don’t just use total yards or yards/game as your measurement. The Bucs only appear good at stopping the pass because they are so terrible in run D that teams choose to run all over them. The Bucs give up 7.7 yards per pass attempt which is 7th worst in the league. They only allow a lower amount of passing yds/game because teams choose to just attack them with the run.
As for Talib, I only threw that in there because he shut down Smitty in the first matchup and looked really good doing it.
I think we should draft a QB as well, but Moore’s performance could very well influence what round that QB comes in.
That's somewhat true..
Fred Jackson (162), Ahmad Bradshaw (104), Ricky Williams (102), DeAngelo Williams (152), Jonathan Stewart (120). They’re the only backs to break triple digits on Tampa this season.
Tony Romo (353), Donovan McNabb (264), Tom Brady (308), Aaron Rodgers (266). They’re the only QB’s to surpass 250+ passing yards against Tampa this season.
While Tampa has definitely gotten trampled this season, they’ve had their fair share of getting burned through the air as well.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
TD's
24 passing TD’s given up (3rd most in the NFL) despite facing the lowest amount of passing att/game. Add that to their rushing tallies and they aren’t very good to say the least.
by R-F on Dec 7, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
You’ve got me there.
I’ll mention that roughly 31% of the rushing touchdowns they have allowed this season are courtesy Carolina (4/13). Why do I mention this? Because I like thinking of how great Double Trouble is.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
So...
Washington was so close to up setting the Saints. The Buc’s only win of the season comes against Washington. The Cards torched the Vikes; we torched the Cards. Isn’t the NFL such a funny place?
Unrelated, the Raiders beat the Steelers. I just feel like, if the 31st ranked offense Raiders can beat the 9th ranked defense Steelers, I’ve got nothing in me that says Carolina can’t beat any team remaining on our schedule.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
If Matt Moore plays the rest of the season...
and IF the Panthers win out and by some chance make the playoffs…
do you think that gives Moore the confidence to win the starting job next year and become our QB of the future?
Sure...
Along with a rookie just in case….
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
I couldn't fairly vote without seeing the game.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
by panther no panth on Dec 7, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions
Could we not...
just develop Hunter Cantwell…and spend our draft picks on things we also need? Yes – we all feel like we NEEEEED a QB, but there are other elements that make up a full roster for a team to be successful.
We could..
But we’d run the risk of having another season just as this one next season. Our o-line is hit and miss and our QB situation is currently terrible but the rest of our team is solid more often than not.
Double Trouble; we've got the best running backs in the NFL that never see the ball!
The passing game is in need of a retool
and with the way that we have identified needs for our team and addressed them in the past makes me confident we will do the same this year.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 8, 2009 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
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