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Musings on Fox and Other Offseason Rumbling

The Panthers will not be affected in 2010 if coach John Fox returns for the final year of his deal, without a contract extension. At least that's what the players say. Several Panthers, speaking from the locker room Wednesday afternoon, said playing for a coach in the final year of his deal would not impact how they perform.

The situation with Fox, whom management has asked to return in 2010 without an extension, was one of many offseason issues players discussed. The Panthers have proven that they can compete with good NFC teams in the last two weeks, rendering Sunday's game against the visiting Saints a secondary issue. Instead the impending offseason was the topic du jour:

Star-divide

Management's decision to ask Fox back (as opposed to firing him) is "great for us," defensive tackle Damione Lewis says. When asked if the players want him back, he replied, "Yes. Definitely...The guys around the (locker) room really like him."

When asked if he would prefer Fox return with a contract extension, Lewis replied, "We've just got to take it as it comes. We have no control."

If Fox opts not to accept the Panthers' offer to return, "he's not going to have a problem finding a (new) job," Lewis added. "He's one of the premier coaches."

Quarterback Matt Moore also talked about playing for a coach in the final year of his deal. "I have no idea about any of that situation," Moore says. "It doesn't seem to matter to me."

Center Ryan Kalil's take: "I don't think guys think about that stuff."

Linebacker Nail Diggs agrees. "It doesn't matter. I don't care," he says. "It doesn't mean anything to a player. It's like having a player in the last year of his deal."

Experts, including other NFL players, have said that it's more difficult for a coach in the final year of his contract to keep players accountable to him. If they get in a disagreement, the player is less likely to follow orders because he thinks the coach won't be around in the future. For an example see Redskins, Washington, 2009.

But receiver Muhsin Muhammad said he would not look at a coach differently just because he is in the last year of his deal. "Fox has done a good job," Muhammad says. He also advocated for Fox to return. "Coaching changes are not necessarily good things in this league."

Do you think the players really would not be distracted by playing for a lame-duck Fox? Do you believe they are being honest? It's hard to tell. But for a preview of how a team plays in key games under a coach in the final year of his deal, watch the Dallas Cowboys over the next two -- or more? -- weeks. ...

 

--Muhammad spoke about whether he will be back with the Panthers next season. He has not had "any communication" with the club about a contract for next season, he says, and he intends to continue playing in the NFL after this season. "This will not be my last game (Sunday). I don't know if it will be my last game as a Panther," he says. "I would love to stay."

--Linebacker Thomas Davis, a free agent after the season, was also cryptic. "We haven't been talking about (a new contract)," said Davis, who has been out since early November with an injury.

--Moore said he does not expect to be named the Panthers' clear-cut starter at quarterback heading into 2010. "There's always going to be competition," he says. ...

 

--On another note, Moore was one of a few players who credited receiver Steve Smith for catching a touchdown pass against the Giants last Sunday -- and breaking his arm in the process. Smith was drilled by a Giants defensive back as he caught the ball.

"The sound (of the hit) alone was unbelievable, and for him to hang on," Moore said, "That's why he's one of the best. It's amazing what he did after getting hit like that."

When Muhammad saw Smith's arm dangling, "I was a little grossed out," he said. ...

 

--Sunday's game against New Orleans is important for at least one reason, Diggs and Muhammad say: Momentum. Diggs said losing their final game last season, especially a postseason game they were favored to win, haunted the Panthers at the beginning of this season. "We were salty for six months after the Arizona Cardinals game last year," Diggs said Wednesday.

But winning the last two games has created momentum the Panthers can carry into 2010, he added, and beating the Saints would only augment that momentum.

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Very interesting reading,

Thanks RB!

I’m no expert, but as per JtA’s recent ‘reverse psychology’ post about John Fox, I’m assuming there’s no chance we could lose Matt Moore to any off-season trade??

I’ll admit I wasn’t sold on him after those first 9 or 10 quarters, but he’s certainly shone since then, long may it continue.

In my humble opinion we do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time debating the pro’s and cons of any particular individual’s ability. It seems clear to me over the last few weeks that the performance of the team as a whole is way more important than what 1 player can bring.

For sure, maybe there are a couple of players on the team that can stimulate a win with a big performance, just as there are a few who can lose it with a sub-par display, but for the most part it’s the 80% of the team who are relative unknowns who will determine the outcome.

Adrenaline, motivation, call it what you will, but it’s a factor.

I know it’s a cliche, but over the last few weeks, the TEAM’s total has been greater than the sum of its parts.

The inter-relationship between coaches, coaching schemes, players, their execution of plays, opposing team’s actions, natural ability, luck, skill etc etc

Whatever…I hope it continues…I’ll be making the pilgrimage to BoA for the Saints game with my kid this Sunday!!!

by PantherPaddy on Dec 30, 2009 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

Chris Carter said it all on ESPN

Chris Carter made the best analysis of Panther football and it wasn’t fancy it was simply direct and to the point.

When we went to the Super Bowl we did three things really well;

1.) Great D-fence
2.) Run the Football
3.) Have a decent QB (not a hall of famer or anything) that can run the game and make a few plays without turning the ball over.

John Fox football 101 ~ I just thought it was cool that another player stepped up and stated the truth among all the doubters and haters at ESPN.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 30, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

As for #3...

Delhomme might not be a hall-of-famer, but the NFL Films recap of his Super Bowl play describes it as one of the best SB performances of all time. The guy always had a knack for stepping it up when it counted.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 3, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll second that

However, last year against Arizona offers strong evidence to the contrary.

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by Flowing Willow on Jan 4, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions  

One game against seven years worth of evidence isn't exactly compelling.

His 5-3 mark in the playoffs (when we were the underdogs most of the time) is as good as most any “stud” QB you can name.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 4, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not questioning Jake has been, and probably still is, a clutch QB

But the league is called a “what have you done for me lately?” league for a reason. Delhomme has shown a penchant for turnovers, and several times this season when we have had a shot to get back to .500 he has shot us in the foot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he still has that comeback ability. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if he has lost it.

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by Flowing Willow on Jan 5, 2010 6:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Coach Fox

I have to say I have been overall happy with Coach Fox! We have had a decent record, and many playoff appearances. We could be Oakland, or San Fran. We are really not a bad team over all. I am happy with Fox. Apparently, I am not the only one.

by Panthers2k1 on Dec 30, 2009 10:18 PM EST reply actions  

Fox is an excellent coach.

He’s always conducted himself with class, and has instilled it in his players, too. They’ve said, and shown by their play, that they want to keep him as their coach — and I’ll bet Richardson feels that way, too. The non-reworking of his contract at this time is due to the possible work stoppage in 2011, not a lack of faith in his leadership.

As I said months ago, I’m proud to be a Panthers’ fan.
I will be HAPPIER as a fan after they win the Super Bowl, but in the meantime, I’m proud to root for them.

The last two games, their team spirit has invigorated their supporters; now we can all look forward to next year, and a fresh start.

by bigdavis on Dec 30, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

The possible work stoppage after next season could be a huge reason for the lack of an extension. Richardson might as well have no one on the payroll for that season, instead of paying someone like Cowher 10 mil to sit at home. I think when the CBA gets worked out, the new contracts will be handed out.

by Scrantsj on Dec 31, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Make or break it year for Fox and Hurney in 2010

It is going to be all or nothing for John Fox and Marty Hurney in 2010 Panther nation. Fox has proven that he can build a team, and take you to the big dance. Although he has never won a Super Bowl he has put together some outstanding teams. I just wish he would have put Moore in a QB sooner and we could be a wildcard team right now.

Finishing 8-8 this season would be huge due to all the injuries; R. meeks hiring was a great pickup by Fox and Hurney and E. Brown is going to be a impact player very soon.

Offseason is going to be fun for us Panther fans this year and I do see Peppers returning on a 3-4 yr deal and it is going to be done early.

Come on Panthers lets beat the Saints and finish 8 – 8.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 30, 2009 10:39 PM EST reply actions  

There are rumors that Fox is looking at Cleveland and Buffalo

AND that the Panthers ultimately want a new, young, energetic head coach, who can prove himself and stick around for many years.

Does Fox have any options not to stay for 2010? Because I am beginning to think letting him go could be a huge mistake… and possibly disgruntle players as well.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 30, 2009 11:25 PM EST reply actions  

cleveland or buffalo?

those are just some fans of those crappy teams wishing that fox would join their squad

by carolinabrave89 on Dec 31, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Cowher is also rumored to be interested in Buffalo

Give it to the 3rd week in January, we will know more then.

by Scrantsj on Dec 31, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure why anyone would want to go to Buffalo

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 31, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

True..

Though one could ask why anyone would have wanted to come to Carolina when Fox arrived.

Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.

by D-Ranged1 on Dec 31, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn't someone want to come to Carolina?

Unless you had an option in NY or some killer city. Warm but not too hot, not over crowded, lot to do, close to beach, close to mountains. That’s why so many people are already moving here from up North.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jan 1, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you..

Talking in a sense of living or coaching football? I meant, why would anyone want to take over a team that was playing horribly.

Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.

by D-Ranged1 on Jan 1, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I gotcha

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jan 1, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Football crazy area, owner willing to put money into the team if there's a good enough foundation to use it properly.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 3, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Fox isn't looking anywhere.

They’re looking at him. And he can go only if they fire him or release him from his contract (which will likely only come with draft pick, player, or cash considerations.)

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 3, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Since Fox shouldn’t have a problem finding a new job I really hope he just goes away. Obviously Richardson doesn’t care what the fans think and everyone knows it will be back to conservative, veteran loyalties next year. Pick6 will be the starting QB and once again the world will wonder why Fox and his favorite QB still have jobs. These last few games have proven that if you don’t have a QB turning the ball over constantly, you can win. The defense doesn’t mind going all out because they know the guys on offense(especially at QB) are not going to put them in vulnerable positions time and time again. The offense plays with more energy and enthusiasm because they now have a QB who can make plays, move around the pocket, and not lock on to one reciever. If Fox comes back, all those things will be lost when he inserts Pick6 as the starter again. There is nothing impressive about hovering around .500, being inconsistant and mediocre every season. Fox has alot of issues and it’s time for him to go.

"it's a bad day to have a bad day"

by D.W.G. on Dec 31, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

Noted..

We’ll see how your predictions unfold next year :).

Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.

by D-Ranged1 on Dec 31, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Hyperbole much?
There is nothing impressive about hovering around .500, being inconsistant and mediocre every season

In consistent? Yes.
Mediocre? No.

What short memories we have:
11-5 in 2003
11-5 in 2005
12-4 in 2008

Furthermore, John Fox’s career coaching record for the Panthers is 63-49 (0.562) which while it may not seem drastically impressive it ranks 4th out of 8 in overall W/L record among coaches with over 3 years experience at their current team.

For people interested in the ranking, here it is:

1. Bill Belichick (New England)
2. Andy Reid (Philadelphia)
3. Tom Coughlin (NY Giants)
4. John Fox (Carolina)
5. Jeff Fisher (Tennessee)
6. Jack Del Rio (Jacksonville)
7. Marvin Lewis (Cincinnati)
8. Lovie Smith (Chicago)

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Dec 31, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say he's only..

A Tom Brady away from being third.. Without Brady, Belichick surely wouldn’t be #1.

Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.

by D-Ranged1 on Dec 31, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Many teams are a QB away from being a top team

That’s why every draft everybody’s looking for the next Brady/Manning. If Fox found a star QB this team would be much more consistent too. That’s why I am really hoping that Moore can continue this insane improvement curve.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jan 1, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

And without Delhomme, we'd be well below eighth.

Look at the team’s record since ‘03 with Delhomme out compared to him in. It’s not even close.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 3, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The bottom of this list haven't really had stellar careers

Shows you how few tenured coaches there are in this league. Which also tells me that many teams are constantly making coaching changes and not getting positive results. And that we are probably better off letting Fox continue trying to figure this thing out than take the huge risk on a newbie.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jan 1, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.

by D-Ranged1 on Jan 1, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, so the defense has not been going all out and it's the QB's fault.

Awesome theory.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 3, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

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