Neglecting Quarterbacks in Draft Hurting Panthers
Matt Moore, preparing to make his third consecutive start on Sunday, has avoided turnovers and kept the Panthers in games in his five career starts. But Moore rarely helps the Panthers put points on the board (they average 13 in the 4 games he started against opponent's starters) and, according to some analysts, lacks leadership skills (he has been blamed for the plethora of shifting and motion penalties last Sunday against New England).
In short, Moore has been about what you would expect from a player who was not drafted into the NFL, if not a bit better. Only three NFL teams began this season starting an undrafted free agent at quarterback - the Cardinals (Kurt Warner), Cowboys (Tony Romo) and Panthers (Jake Delhomme). That's because quarterback is considered to be the most important position in football, and it's a poor strategy to build a team around a player who was not deemed good enough to be among the 200-plus players selected in an NFL Draft.
Most modern NFL teams build through the draft and the Panthers under general manager Marty Hurney and coach John Fox have been no exception. Yet Carolina has largely ignored the quarterback position in their eight drafts together. As a result, Carolina could use two undrafted free agents to start its 16 games at quarterback this season, including the final five by a player who -- unlike Delhomme -- has never been a bona fide NFL player. In addition, the Panthers' opening day starter for 2010 is a major question mark heading into the offseason.
How did the Panthers get themselves into this situation? Let's examine:
The Panthers have drafted just two quarterbacks since the Hurney-Fox era began in 2002, none in the first three rounds. Both of those quarterbacks are now out of the NFL.
When you compare that record to how the Panthers have emphasized drafting at other positions, and to how other NFL teams have approached the quarterback position in the draft, Carolina comes up short on both accounts. The Panthers drafted 65 players between 2002-2009, including 35 on offense: Two quarterbacks, seven backs, six tight ends, 14 linemen and six receivers. In the first three rounds Carolina selected four backs, seven linemen, two receivers, one tight end and, of course, zero quarterbacks.
Independent positions such as center, guard and tackle form the foundation for a team, so I don't fault Carolina for using so many picks on offensive linemen. But six picks at the dependent position of tight end? And no quarterbacks in the first three rounds? That's questionable.
Since 2002, NFL teams have drafted 104 quarterbacks -- 43 in the first three rounds. That averages out to 3.3 quarterbacks per team and 1.3 per team in the first three rounds. The Panthers are well below both those marks.
This trend gets more damning when you look at whom the Panthers have drafted at quarterback. They used a 5th-round pick on Randy Fasani in 2002 and a No. 4 on Stefan LeFors in 2005. Fasani has been out of the NFL since his rookie season; his stat line: 15-for-44 passing for 171 yards, no touchdowns, and 4 interceptions in 4 games. LeFors has never played in the NFL.
To be fair, the Panthers drafted a quarterback in 2001, the season before Fox and Hurney arrived. They used another non-top 3 pick, this time a No. 4, on Chris Weinke. The Danny Almonte of college football (he was 28 when he won the Heisman Trophy at Florida State in 2000) played with the Panthers in 2001-2002 and 2005-2006. He has been out of the NFL since appearing in 2 games with the 49ers in 2007. His numbers: A 54 percent completion rate, 5.5 yards per attempt and a 15-26 touchdown-interception ratio in 29 career games. He started 15 games in 2001, when Carolina went 1-15.
Carolina has passed on numerous starting quarterbacks in the draft. In 2004 the Panthers used a No. 2 pick on receiver Keary Colbert; the Falcons then used a No. 3 to pick Matt Schaub, who now starts for Houston. A year later the Panthers passed on Kyle Orton four times before the Bears selected him in the 4th round. They also selected LeFors ahead of Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel, whom the Patriots selected in the 7th round.
Those moves can be excused. Few teams expected Schaub, Orton or Cassel to become NFL starters, or these quarterbacks would not have slipped so far. But the 2008 draft may haunt this franchise for a while. The Panthers passed on Joe Flacco and Chad Henne. Flacco was the Ravens' 1st-round choice, while Miami selected Henne in the 2nd round.
Carolina opted to focus on its running game, using its two 1st-rounders to select Jonathan Stewart to join 2006 No. 1 pick DeAngelo Williams at tailback, and tackle Jeff Otah to block for them. These moves paid off last season, when a stellar running game carried Carolina to an NFC South title. But then the quarterback position -- mostly Delhomme -- crushed their postseason chances last season and has held them back this year. And it could be a major problem in the near future.
To be fair, Carolina has used other methods besides the draft to bring in quarterbacks in the Hurney-Fox era. The Panthers traded for both Delhomme and Josh McCown, who began the season as Delhomme's backup. McCown is only 30, has started 31 NFL games and was a 3rd-round pick in 2002.
But Carolina's M.O. since 2002 has been to build and sustain the team through the draft. And when the draft comes, the front office has neglected the most important position on the field.
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"But then the quarterback position -- mostly Delhomme -- crushed their postseason chances last season"
Bullshit. The entire team played awful in that game, and to blame it on one player is lazy and beneath your level of football understanding. But keep it up. Jake doesn’t mind being your whipping boy so you have somebody to blame.
Oh, and we didn’t trade for Delhomme. He was acquired as a free agent following the 2002 season. We competed with the Cowboys for his services.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
The whole team played awful....
after his 12 first half interceptions, perhaps? Wow, down 30, your QB looks like he bet on the other team and there is no hope in sight of your coach making a change. I’d be day dreaming of oahu too.
Really?
He threw 12 first half interceptions? Funny, I can’t find anybody in NFL history who’s done that, much less Delhomme. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your argument.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 19, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry MP...there is no denying the INTs sent the team on a downward spiral in that game
Delhomme admits it.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
So what kind of spiral was involved when Delhomme was leading the team on a drive that put them in the lead 7-0?
Just checking. Or should he have defended the subsequent drive better?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 19, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
There's no defending the Arizona playoff game.
Of course the entire team lost, but acting like Jake wasn’t the factor, and the defense was is ludicrous.
I’ve defended Jake to a fault in 2009, I’m nostalgic that way… and yes, there are times I think he’d be better than Moore right now, but this isn’t about 2009 anymore; it’s about 2010 and beyond.
Jake is not the future of the franchise, no 34 year old QB should be. The Panthers left the QB position waning far too long without addressing it… and that’s why we have a question mark at the position now.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Dec 20, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Delhomme didn't get a chance to fuck up the opening drive, because they ran the ball down their throats!
Like the Panters should have done the rest of that game and the erst of the playoffs. Unfortunately, Jake ruined it for teh rest of the team by going on to turn the ball over 6 times!
Re: So what kind of spiral was involved when Delhomme was leading the team on a drive that put them in the lead 7-0?
You can’t have six turnovers (from one guy) and expect to win. To his credit, Jake admitted that he didn’t give the team a chance to win that game.
As James rightly said, Jake is the past, you should just let him go. Let’s see what Moore does tonight and go from there..
jake didnt call the passes
he just executed them badly secondary got beat consistently as well
by jojoisthemann on Dec 20, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
are you serious?
would everyone who is arguing about the playoff loss please go watch the game again and decide for yourselves what happened? i mean, jake stunk it up, but he didn’t give up 34 points. someone decided not to run the ball and someone else decided to run the same basic defense that we ran in the previous game against them. the point of this post, however, is that a lot of QBs have been passed over and that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in now. i think if you look at the way jake played in 2007, and then consider that d-will was 2nd string and foster was gone, it made sense to draft stewart and otah. last year, we had the first ever pair of RBs to both gain 800 yards and 10 TDs. we might do it again this year. last year, jake played like fox expected and we were 12-4. he had horrible games against the two worse teams – oakland and detroit – and we won both. then the playoff game happened. i believe that most people on this blog believed that jake would play better than he has this year. look at jake’s best games this year. most of us expected most of his games to be like that, not like the eagles game. so based on those assumptions, it seems fox and hurney were on the right path. then jake plays like hell, there is an express lane from DT to IR, and also OT to IR, and OLB to IR, and some other guy decides that when d-will is averaging 6 yds per carry, limit his carries. i’m sure belicheck appreciated that call. it would have been nice to have drafted a qb or two over the years, but our last couple drafts resulted in every single player drafted making a contribution to the team. i personally wished we would’ve drafted josh johnson, the qb from oregon, or a handful of other guys. there is no way to predict any of those guys would’ve been any better than moore at this point in their careers, though. most teams, since jake arrived, have drafted a qb high because they clearly needed one without question. this coming april is the first time that we are in that position. we have to draft one high, in my opinion, and i wish we would trade up to get kellen moore. and maybe also get armante edwards later. then there is always signing a free agent like jason campbell or mike vick. either way, we have to make a move, and i’m waiting to see what that move is since we have officially been eliminated from the playoffs.
Yeah, basically this
Jake, the defense, and the play-calling cost us the game. All were factors, and blaming just one is inane, same as absolving one. They all contributed to each other.
You can look in hindsight and say who we could have gotten for the perfect draft, but realistically our best options where either Henne or Flacco, and I wouldn’t trade our newfound ground game success for either.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it is that fair to blame the D when
Fitz played like superman and batman rolled into one. He was just out of his mind all playoffs long.
I’d also still take Otah and Stewart.
Let it go already
The loss to Arizona was a team effort, and more important, it was LAST YEAR!
Let’s talk about the QB position instead, and all the shoulda-woulda-coulda’s surrounding it. Someone tell me who we reasonably could have taken that made any sense at the time. It’s easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. So if you choose to do so, why not also toss in alternatives and the perspective that the front office had at the time?
Well
giving up our 1st rounder this year looks pretty bad. I was down with the deal at the time so I can’t really knock it; we thought we were on the cusp and figured the pick would be late 20’s, unsure status of Pep made it a big need, and Brown was rated as a 1st rounder.
In hindsight though, we knew there was a chance Jake could flounder and that this would be a great year for QBs in the draft.
We gave up our 1st next year...
Because we gave up a ridiculous package for Otah last year.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
We could have just taken our lumps and not had a first this year
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 22, 2009 6:51 AM EST up reply actions
Or we could have found a team that didn't rape us for the first last year.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 22, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think that would happen.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 23, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
It didn't happen with San Fran.
The draft value chart had us losing the Philly trade by a high second-rounder. We only lost the SF deal by a mid-round pick. There’s a huge difference there.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't put much stock into that chart
It’s what you make out of the picks, and we basically traded Jason Peters and Trevor Laws for Jeff Otah. Now you may take Peters over Otah, but I believe Otah is the superior player, Laws is just a reserve tackle, and although nice to have here, if our starters were healthy he wouldn’t see the field.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 24, 2009 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
And Mike McGlynn, who's no less "promising" than, say, Duke Robinson.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 24, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Who?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 26, 2009 7:01 AM EST up reply actions
It's not over yet
There are a LOT of prospects out there, and I’m sure one or two will be available in the second round when we pick. Think Kevin Kolb, but better. We won’t get the next Peyton Manning with our pick, but the next Drew Brees should still be around.
The question is, how long can we afford to let the next guy develop? Will Delhomme be like Warner and experience a renaissance? Or will we let Moore try and carry the team for a few seasons?
It’s going to be an interesting ride.
Why not Vick?
Keep Moore, lose Jake, and pick up Vick, think about it, the Panthers focus on the run anyway so why not get a QB that is a solid run threat if not a HUGE one, and did you see how well Moore looked in a moving pocket, you add Vick and that has just become the NFL version of the Spread option, just think about it, Williams on one side Stewart one the other and Vick in the middle, and oh yeah Steve Smith sliding across the middle, sounds sweet to me.
Because Vick can't throw more than six yards down the field with any accuracy at all?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
I like the idea of acquiring VIck
But they can/should keep Jake too, though. Moore & Vick splitting snaps, maybe with a new OC drawing up some plays to use both QB’s on the field at once. Jake as the savvy Vet mentoring both QB’s, possibly transitioning himself to a coach, always ready to come in and try to gun-sling the team to victory.
Add in potentially drafting the young “QB for the Future” this draft and/or the next, and the talent already present on both sides of the ball and i think the Panthers should be right back in the Super Bowl hunt next season — with enormous potential to get over the hump and be perennial contenders for a few years in a row!
I'd rather have Edwards than Vick
I believe at this point Edwards has more talent than Vick, without the baggage.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 23, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions




















