Cassel to Panthers?
by chiefs#7 on Dec 14, 2009 8:40 PM EST
82 comments
Hey guys,
I’m a Chiefs fan, but first and foremost I’m a Matt Cassel fan. I’ve been criticized a lot by other Chiefs fans for that. It’s a long story. Basically I followed Matt throughout his entire career, was excited when he took over Brady’s job last year and was ecstatic when he was traded to the Chiefs…until now. Quite frankly I’m disgusted to be associated with Chiefs fans right now. They are hating on Matt Cassel like crazy. And the funny thing is, he’s doing badly because the Chiefs are bad. I can see why they are frustrated because they haven’t been winning much, but Matt Cassel and Todd Haley can’t turn them around in one season. I’m not going to lie, I AM partial to Cassel, but we all saw how good he was in New England. I’m not saying he’s better than Tom Brady, but if Brady went to Kansas City, I don’t think he would be doing much better than Cassel. (Cassel is mobile, Brady is not.) And that’s if Brady even survived the season.
Well anyway, there has been some talk about how Cassel might be traded once the year is done. I think that you guys are a likely candidate if this indeed does happen. First, do you guys need a quarterback, or are you ok in that area? And second would you guys want Matt Cassel. I’m not going to say Jake Delhomme is doing bad cause I know I wouldn’t want people judging Cassel by his stats. (Stats don’t give the full story) And is Moore any good? So basically, do you guys need a quarterback, and would you want Cassel?
Please state your opinion without insulting Matt Cassel or anyone else. Thank you!
Good luck the rest of this year!
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I don't...
know much about your guys’ team, but from what I can tell you guys would have a better supporting cast for Matt then the Chiefs do, or even will have next year. If Cassel has a good group around him, then we preforms well, like what we saw in New England.
:-D
Why do the Chiefs want to trade him so soon?
It seems to me the problem is your O-line… not Cassel.
That being said, I’ll throw my hat in the ring: We’ll give you Peppers.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 14, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah the o-line isn’t very good, getting better, but still not good. I don’t think it’s realistic for the Chiefs to trade him so soon, but so many Chiefs fans want to, just cause he’s had a few bad games, and a medeocre season.
I saw this piece on Cassell by Ed Thompson...
Player spotlight: Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel has completed just 53.9 percent of his throws during his first season in Kansas City, a significant drop-off since last year when he completed 63.4 percent for New England. But how much of that is Cassel’s fault versus the receivers he’s working with this year? Well, Chiefs receivers have dropped 9.2 percent of his throws—a 4.2 percent increase over what Cassel experienced while throwing to the Patriots receivers. But he’s obviously had his problems getting his timing down with his new targets in Kansas City as well. So far this season, 17.8 percent of his passes have been poor throws that were off-target—an increase of 4.8 percent over last year. His numbers in other key areas that contribute to incompletions—passes knocked away by a defender (10.1 percent), batted down at the line (3.5 percent) and intentional grounding (3.7 percent)—are all within 0.3 percent of his 2008 totals.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I can see that.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
by panther no panth on Dec 20, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Never Cassel....
Cassel is good I’ve watched him almost every game but the big negative is the jake size contract, 6yrs for $63mil. That’s just to much to invest in a QB that already has an mcl injury, I would rather stick with Moore who with a full camp and preseason might just cut it for us. The only problem with moore is his arm strength to go downfield and his accuracy. His vision is ok but could use improvement.
by pantherfan95323 on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Terms are correct
6 years, $63 million. $28 million guaranteed, $40.5 million in the first three years of the deal.
Cassell is most likely better than he’s played this year – but at that price (add in what we would also have to give up to get him) I think I’ll pass on him. I imagine we would have alot more cheaper options to consider.
Yeah...I was all about it until I saw the contract
I would hope we could find a better bargain
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Via wikipedia....
On July 14, 2009, the Chiefs signed Cassel to a six-year, $63 million contract that includes $28 million in guaranteed money, and $40.5 million in total compensation in the first three seasons.
by pantherfan95323 on Dec 14, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
An MCL injury?
You do realize that’s about the most minor knee injury you can possibly have, right?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 14, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
MCL is minor.
Although it’s minor, QBs wear a cast to protect the knee, which limits mobility.
by pantherfan95323 on Dec 14, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
He'll be 100% by next year, no question.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Bring him on.
I would take Cassel today and you are crazy not to b/c we need a QB with franchise written all over him and Cassel passing to Smitty and soon to be draft D. Alexander of Missouri or E. Decker of Minn would be great.
Cassel to Carolina is a win for us but what would or do we have to give up for him ?
Jake Delhomme for Cassel I don’t think that even the Chiefs as bad as they are and not that dumb.
Hmm….
If Fox stays so does Meeks and peppers is going to be resigned so that is not a trade scenario.
I just don’t know what we have to offer the Chiefs b/c we need our limited # of picks in the coming draft and I don’t want to see Hurney mortage another 1st rounder ? How nice would it be to have our 1st round pick back, we should be drafting anywhere from 11-15 slot. Hmm I wish we could have our pick back today and yes I know we ended up with E. Brown but man to be able to get a guy like Tebow, Bradford, McCoy, etc… would be great and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
Go Panthers.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 14, 2009 11:14 PM EST reply actions
Peppers is by NO means a lock to come back.
They clearly know by now how much they’ve hurt themselves in roster construction because of his presence and huge cap number. And even if we did have a #1 pick, we wouldn’t get a QB we were planning on playing. It doesn’t work. Do you want a Sanchez or a Freeman to suck it up for a year plus before they might or might not play at an average level for an NFL QB?"
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
i'm up for this
definitely want that WR with 2nd round pick… is it too much to want golden tate lol
Yes, given he'll be gone in the top 15 picks.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt that
He doesn’t have a high ceiling, and there are some questions about size, and overall athleticism. He’ll go late first early second, within our range.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not anywhere I've seen.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Where do you look at mocks?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
All over.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
Most places I’ve seen have him late first.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 21, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Cassel would be borderline
I’d much rather have Campbell, but Cassel could work. Good accuracy, mobility, makes good decisions. We’d have to tailor our pass offense to fit his strengths, which means Smith becomes more of a decoy as Cassel doesn’t have a strong arm. But he is an upgrade over our current situation.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
+2
I would rather have Campbell than just about any realistic option we would have.
We should definitely sign Campbell in the offseason, that is if he isn’t stupid enough to re-sign with the Skins and they’re not dumb enough to franchise him.
+4
This Matt Cassel idea is a waste of time. This isn’t Fantasy Football. His contract’s too big, and he hasn’t shown anything, anyway. Campbell, on the other hand, has shown up, and he just may be available.
Shown up to do what?
He’s never been a winning QB.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Except in 2007 when the 'Skins went 9-7 and made the playoffs.
That’s one more playoff appearance than Cassel.
He’s only been the starter for 2 full seasons… during that time the Skins have gone 17-15.
As for 2009 they’re not going to make the playoffs, but he’s having his best year as a pro.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 15, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm certainly not arguing for Cassell.
But there’s nothing that makes sense about paying big money for a guy who’s never proven to be anything but mediocre.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I was just pointing out that he has been a winning QB, once.
If you had control of the organization what would you do for the QB position?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 15, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take Campbell..
A mediocre QB on a terrible team might just turn into an amazing QB on a great team.
We’re a great team we just don’t have the most important piece in winning games.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
I'd find a cheap, diamond in the rough FA and draft a good value QB.
As to the guys on the roster, I’d let Moore go and try and resign McCown pretty cheaply with an opportunity to start, and bring Cantwell back with a chance to be the #3 or #4 depending on how the draft and FA work out.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Cheap Diamond?
Who specifically would you target as a FA to get that cheap diamond QB? I think any team without a superstar QB would looking for such a player.
I seems that some are thinking Cambell could be that cheap diamond.
Campbell won't be cheap.
He’s a former first-rounder who’s still young. It’ll take a multi-year deal (I’m thinking at least three) at $5 million plus. No sense in giving that kind of money to a guy we’re not even sure would upgrade the position. As for concrete players to go after:
Kyle Orton-just wins, yet is consistely underrated
Chad Pennington-again, a winner. His health would obviously have to be considered.
Brodie Croyle-big-time QB in college, but who’s done anything in KC lately? He’s young and still has plenty of upside.
David Carr-Finally got the time off to get his head right that Jake and the Panthers couldn’t in ‘07. He’s shown very well when given the chance to play in New York.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
First of all Campbell is an upgrade over Jake/Moore, anyone who has suited up as QB on the roster
Secondly QB is the biggest need on the team, why not spend the available cap space on one? Do you honestly think the guys you listed are better than Campbell?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
In terms of their value, ABSOLUTELY.
And what makes Campbell an upgrade over anybody on our roster? Is it his playoff appearances? Is it his QB rating? Is it his leadership?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Campbell's QB rating the last 2 seasons: 86.65
Delhomme’s: 72.05
Moore’s (this season): 69.4
I’d say that’s a significant upgrade. But here are some other areas:
Completion Percentage-
Campbell: 63.8%
Delhomme: 57.45%
Moore: 69.4% (2 games)
TD/INT ratio-
Campbell: 1.66 to 1
Delhomme: 0.76 to 1
Moore: 0.5 to 1
Campbell’s also had more yards than both of them combined.
Campbell is statistically superior to anyone we currently have on roster.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 20, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to argue with that...
…but I expect he’ll find a way.
Yes, because a season and a half certainly define's a player's ability.
Also, if you’re going to spew stats, you might want to do it correctly. You’re high on Campbell’s and low on Delhommes.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
How was I low on Jake's?
because a season and a half certainly define’s a player’s ability.
Where do I begin? First off, it’s not a season and a half. The 2009 season well over half completed, and Campbell’s numbers trend equally to last season. He’s a player on the rise, Jake is a player clearly in decline.
Personally, I’d rather use recent history than rely on Jake’s pre-injury numbers.
A bit of constructive criticism Procton, you need to be more consistent with your analysis. If you’re going to put down a player like Peppers, you need to do the same with Delhomme. Simultanously, if you want to tout Jake’s 2 or 3 good games in 2009 you also need to address his myriad poor performances.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 20, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just wait and see
Don’t worry the Panthers will not pull the trigger on either one of them. They will will just sit around and wait until every viable QB on the market is gobbled up and then take a seventh rounder that will fill in behind Moore. A franchise QB is not in their sights, remember we are a running team and only need a good field manager.
by Cwilly1 on Dec 15, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That all depends on who the coach is next season.
If Fox goes, then there could be big changes with the team.
I want what’s best for Cassel. And I want him to preform to the best of his ability. And that’s not happening in KC. So I really hope he does get traded this off season, even though it’s unlikly. But is he got traded to you guys, I would be pretty excited.
If he did get traded to you guys, and I became a Panthers fan, would you guys hate me like some of the people at Arrowhead Pride do? (Becasue I’m a Chiefs fan BECASUE of Matt Cassel) But I am a real fan, and the farthest thing from a fairweather fan. But I just want what’s best for Cassel’s career.
I like to think we don't hate anyone.
If you’re cheering for the black and teal I don’t care what your reason is for becoming a Panthers’ fan.
(correct me if I’m wrong) We have a diehard Panthers fan ‘Utesfan89’ who’s primary reason for pulling for the Panthers was our acquistions of Steve Smith and Jordan Gross… both Utah alums.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
You guys could do a lot worse than Cassel.
The Chiefs O-line is pathetic. I watched one game where 3 defenders were in the backfield on a pass play within 2 seconds. No wonder he doesn’t pass beyond 20 yards. Who can run tweny yards that fast?
Behind a decent O-line and with a decent running game Cassel would be great.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 15, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions
I agree wholly.
I just think the price would need to be right. For a 2nd round pick, I’d pull the trigger in a second.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t agree with what Vick did, but I think he has repayed his debt to society. I think he would be a better fit for us. He’s extremely mobile and has a decent arm.
He racked up some yards against us over the years whenever we played the Falcons. HE has the ability to change the momentum of a game whenever he decides to run. I’m kinda embarrassed whenever Jake has to run. He looks like a three-legged dog on ice.
What do ya’ll think?
by D-Angelo Grill-iams on Dec 15, 2009 1:25 PM EST reply actions
Carolina
Has a long and proud history of not making huge splash signings in free agency.
(With perhaps Keyshawn Johnson being an execption?)
I don’t see the panthers going for Vick because of the negative attention it would bring to the franchise. I think they would rather get a pocket QB who can game manage and provide the same style of play at the QB position that Jake offered back in the day.
by GoodOl'NorthState on Dec 15, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
That's because it hasn't often worked out particularly well.
No fault of his own, but Hartwig was never the same after his injury, Lucas got cut as he aged (although Godfrey certainly helped), and Kemo has never been productive enough for people to embrace him, even though he’s done his job to a T. Also, Landon Johnson’s been almost a complete flop.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
You don't think the staff can evaluate whose fault a play is?
If Godfrey were the reason Lucas sucked last season don’t you think they would have figured it out?
Other than that I concur with your point.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
What did you expect them to do?
Cut a second-year top 100 draft pick?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
No
but if it was Godfrey’s fault Lucas wouldn’t have been cut.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 20, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Why not?
They wanted to open a spot for younger players, and the team’s star doesn’t like him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
They already had secondary troubles
why cut a guy if he wasn’t responsible for that. He and Smith had reconciled as well, don’t pretend like it’s a factor.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 21, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
You're right.
I’m sure they were having tea parties all season long.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
lol
I’m sure they were egging each others houses as well.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 21, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
There is nothing in Vick's game that indicates he would be a fit for the Panthers.
Having a mobile quarterback gives your team the following benefits:
1. Makes up for deficiencies on the offensive line (not needed)
2. Makes up for a lackluster running game (not needed)
3. Requires a stable of tactile ‘read and react’ receivers who can adjust to the QB’s movement (we do not have)
on the other hand
Having pocket quarterback gives your team the following benefits:
1. Requires a stable offensive line that can hold blocks (check)
2. Relies on good running backs that can get yards in order to switch up the offense (check)
3. Allows less than stellar wide receivers to get open and make plays (which we have)
Of course Jake Delhomme or Matt Moore look silly running the ball… which is why it’s only occured 19 times this season between the two of them.
I see no justification if Mike Vick were a Panther that he should ever get a snap to run the football when we have double trouble in the backfield.
As for the QBing aspect… Vick’s most accurate season as a QB was in 2004… his completion percentage was still worse than Jake’s this season (his worst). No thank you.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Jake's actually looked better running this season than he ever has.
That’s one of the fundamental things they worked on, and probably the only one to take hold. He’s looked good moving both in the pocket and when the play has broken down.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Before someone asks for it yet again...
Wait for it…
Wait for it…….
NO VICK.
by Tater596 on Dec 15, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Have this year's results not proven to you he can't play QB?
Less than 50% completions despite the fact that the package he plays in has people keyed in on him running (which they’ve done, to the tune of an awful 4 YPC.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 15, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would think that
Even if you ignore this year, didn’t enough people watch him play QB during his prime to realize that he isn’t a good quarterback? Jail time, time off from football, and aging surprisingly do not help you get any better.
lol
I just found this when I google searched “Matt Cassel to Panthers”
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2008/11/20/666425/matt-cassel-a-carolina-pan
you guys really need to stop acting as if we can trade peppers. we cant. its as bad as my eagles preteding we can trade vick. we cant. they both either walk or get signed no trade involved.
A sign and trade is a very real possiblity
If Peppers truly wants out of Carolina then the threat of being stuck in Charlotte another season may force his hand to play ball.
With multiple franchise tags available and an uncapped year I wouldn’t be surprised if the Panthers threaten to tag him again then work on a trade while he decides on the tender.
Even if we get a 4th or 5th round pick it’s better than nothing.
We’re in the same position with Peppers that the Patriots were in with Matt Cassel last season and he got them a 2nd rounder.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 16, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
That...
Or he refuses to sign the tender and we’re stuck with him on the roster again for about $20 million.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
True
But if the Big Cat is willing to pay it and there’s no CBA it doesn’t matter.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Willingness to pay one player's ridiculous salary...
Does not mean that it won’t hurt our efforts/ability to acquire other players.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
yea I respect ur opinion and u really know ur stuff but ur dreaming if u think peps getting traded. if he does get tagged which i hope he doesnt, he’ll keep the 20 mill and stay and we’re broke
by ieatcrayons on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I was talking about the same way he did this year.
Sign just before the season starts, and he gets paid in full.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
KC are worse than carolina wouldnt be a good move
by jojoisthemann on Dec 19, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions
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