Panthers Fold Against Patriots 20-10
by Jaxon on Dec 13, 2009 10:26 PM EST
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If you are searching for answers as to why the Panthers lost to the Patriots today you can't blame the defense. They held a potent Patriots offense to 20 points while creating 3 turnovers and denying 8 of 11 3rd down conversions. No, if you are looking for answers look at the offense
Back-up QB Matt Moore didn't have a bad day statistically speaking: 15 for 30 197 yards and a TD. But outside of a bomb to Steve Smith he misfired repeatedly throughout the day. In many cases he had a receiver wide open yet overthrew the player, sometimes badly. I'm not pinning this loss on Moore I'm just saying if he could have hit some of those passes he missed in the first half the Panthers might have made this more of a game. As it was the Panthers stayed close but it was only a matter of time before the Patriot offense got untracked.
The running game seemed to be effective at times but was mostly shackled by a lack of touches with only 20 carries between Williams and Stewart. Combine that with the 30 passes for Matt Moore and you have a team that lost in TOP. So if you want to throw a dart at the Panthers defense it has to be the run defense. They got gashed for 180+ yards that allowed the Patriots to control the ball.
The notable Panther performances are after the jump...
- LB Dan Conner has 5 tackles and three assists and recovered a fumble in his first start at SLB.
- LB Jon Beason led the team with 9 tackles
- WR Steve Smith put up 83 yards and a TD on only two receptions. How did Smith not get more catches?
- FS Charles Godfrey chipped in 5 tackles, 3 assists and a FF
- RB DeAngelo Williams had 82 yards on 13 carries (6+ yards per carry)
- DE Everette Brown had a critical roughing the kicker call that prevented a possible Panthers game tying scoring drive. What were the chances of that really happening given how the offense was playing? One in ten at best.
Let's hear it Panther fans. Should Moore continue to start? What if Jake can start next week, put him back in? The Panthers are still not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs believe it or not.
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The running game seemed to be effective at times but was mostly shackled by a lack of touches with only 20 carries between Williams and Stewart. Combine that with the 30 passes for Matt Moore and you have a team that lost in TOP. So if you want to throw a dart at the Panthers it has to be the run defense.
You throw the dart at who ever is calling the plays.
I meant throw a dart at the defense...correction made
but yeah…the play calling doesn’t seem to be fooling anybody. I liked some of the running plays to Smith but there was little else creatively. Though I’m not saying that the is reason. You can point to execution too. But no denying the offense just couldn’t sustain drives when give repeated opportunities
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
We called a Hook and Ladder at the end of the half
If that’s a second quicker it’s 10-7 going into the locker room.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 14, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
Or if we called timeouts
Earlier in the drive.
One of South Africa's only Carolina Panthers and fans.
by chinchillas sword on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I was baffled by the clock management on that drive. I doubt Jake would have squandered the time like that.
Coaches decide when to call those time outs...
…and can directly from the sidelines, if need be. Fox didn’t. Why?
Well we could always hope Delhomme’s time on the bench made him get his shit in gear (doubt it), but we’ve given him enough chances for redemption. I can’t possibly think of a reason not to try Moore again. Though it does seem the play calling is favoring the throw with Moore in there. Now I know everyone is itching to see what the guy has and some are even hoping for him to explode and carry this team, but we really need to stick to the run regardless. Delhomme, Moore, whoever at qb, running the ball is what we do best and wins us games
Exactly..
There’s no way I’d sit Moore until this season ends. We’re getting (or at least I’m getting) exactly what we (I) asked for in seeing what Moore is made of. The Pats could have been a bad game for him or it could just be that he isn’t worthy of being a starter. We’ll only know if he continues to start. He definitely deserves his own shot at redemption, if you want to call it that.
In the Buc’s game he kinda had it easy with the way the D was playing, it gave him a TON of chances to look good (or really, really bad but he sufficed). That wasn’t the case against the Pats, maybe it’ll be a reality check. I look forward to seeing how he takes the loss and seeing if rebounds next week.
As is, Moore is looking like a solid back up at best.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
i wish we could stay with moore
but the misses and overthrows won’t cut it…. he is a solid back up though
looks like we’re gonna find a nice QB in the draft… or, for the more speculative, a FA
As do I.
I had really hoped Moore was going to come out and prove himself worthy and so I put all of my support behind him – and I still do for the rest of the season – but I can’t ignore the mediocrity because it’s screaming at me throughout the entire game giving me headaches.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
+1
One game does NOT a QB make…..
I’d like to see more of his performances, bearing in mind what it is we’re looking at. If you’re looking for Manning\Brady\Brees style performance, you need to recalibrate your expectations.
He is still, effectively, a rookie. He’s had a total of 5 NFL starts now, in 3 years. All the bench learning isn’t worth a dime until you put it on the field and work out the kinks.
Continue to start him and let’s evaluate his performance against various playoff teams. Does he show improvement week-week? Are his reads getting better? Is he learning to direct his receivers in traffic? Is there TRULY potential there or is it simply the better of 2 tragedies we’re fielding each week?
Some of thiscan only be answered by putting him on the field and seeing what happens. Better O-Line performance wouldn’t hurt, either. Although, the expectation has to be to play through whatever you’re given on any given Sunday.
by 12th_Man_Fan on Dec 14, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
+1 to the +1
Let him get some rythym and see if he can settle down, we gain nothing by bringing Jake to finish .500 or worse
by parkershawn2001 on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
His first 4 throws were all jigh, and all incompletions.
He acknowledged this as nerves, and settled it down. He made some good passes after that (and some bad ones) — If Travelle Wharton can keep Jared Allen off him, let’s see if he shows any improvement this Sunday. Still a work in progress.
This is the NFL not High School ball.
To play QB in the NFL you have to have three things:
Talent
Leadership
Right mental attitude and toughness.
Jake has talent, but lacks the leadership and mental toughness/attitude to be the starter. Look at the turnovers. It is so bad I have called it several times during his career that I am expecting a multiple interception game and sure enough Jake delivers. Everyone is going to get intercepted sometime but look at how many multiple interception games Jake has thrown. Look at how many times when all the chips are on the table the pass goes to the other team. The best defense in the world is an offense with the ball. The worst offense in the world is one that turns the ball over.
No more second, third, fourth … twentieth chances. This is the NFL, and you won’t even get three chances to screw up as a High School QB on a serious team these days, and they don’t get paid millions to play.
Name one team that would trade for Jake to be their starter.
The St. Louis Rams
Would trade for Jake Delhomme in a second. With Marc Bulger injured and Kyle Boller looking horrible they turned to Keith Null today…. the result wasn’t pretty
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Dec 13, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I have to disagree..
I feel Jake has the leadership but now lacks the talent for whatever reason (rather it has to do with the surgery or not). The attitude is questioned.. He shows well on the outside but no one knows what he is thinking or feeling on the inside.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Nailed the point right here.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 14, 2009 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
Keep Delhomme
sitting on the bench. We need to see if Matt can handle the job or if we’ll be starting even further behind the 8-ball than some of think we are come the off season.
Steve Smiths sums up my attitude:
“There’s a lot of things you can focus on and kind of nitpick at,” sighed wide receiver Steve Smith, who scored Carolina’s only TD. “But that’s going to require too much effort, and I just don’t have the energy to go down that path.”
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
even at 30 yrs old
I still think Steve Smith is the Panther’s best overall player. You can’t tell me a receiver as good as Smith could have handled the situation that was given to Smith. You are on a run first offense and even then, the coordinator/head coach still cannot figure ways to get the ball into their best player’s hands.
kinda sad if you ask me.
by SmithnCompany on Dec 14, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Screw the run first offense...we need balance
there is a difference between being a ‘run first’ offense and being a good running offense. We need to be able to do both if we want to truly compete year after year.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Scott Fowler zeroes in on some specifics
With the game tied at 7-all in the second quarter, the Panthers had two timeouts and the ball at their own 31 with 1:02 to go.
Try to get a field goal and go into halftime with the lead, right? Or maybe just try to grind out one first down and sit on the ball.
Instead, coach John Fox tried to mix both philosophies. He had Matt Moore throw the ball on five consecutive plays, but he never used a single timeout. The clock just kept running until the Panthers ran a pretty hook-and-lateral on the last play for a 44-yard gain that meant absolutely nothing because the clock went to 0:00 when Smith was tackled at the 12.
When I asked Fox why he kept getting Moore to pass the ball yet never called timeouts after completions, here was the coach’s exact response: “Again, we were backed up and you don’t want to give them the ball back. You know, we were able to get out of that territory. I think you saw some of the breaks we might have gotten in the pass game today. So that was the thinking.”
Huh?
I also was left scratching my head on that one.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I take it as..
“I have no confidence in our extremely talented offense because we’re going play to our weakness and am afraid to call a time out in fear of a turn over on downs with the clock stopped.”
Anyone know if the pats have any time outs left?
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
i’ve read that quote 3 times today and the best i can come up with is he’s drunk or answering 4 different questions.
by bleed_in_blue on Dec 14, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
I believe. . .
That one ref was bribed as soon as we’d start driving illegal formation.
by chinchillas sword on Dec 14, 2009 1:38 AM EST reply actions
I said earlier..
Brady is the only QB I know of that can drive the entire field without completing a pass.
“Pass interference! – Holding! – Roughing the passer! – Illegal formation! – Off sides! – Uh, excessive blocking! – Um….. Roughing the ball carrier! – Obstructing the receivers view! – Running too fast! – Illegal interception, ineligible safety! – Illegal tackle for loss! Not allowing the ball carrier enough time to move! – Uhhhh….. Playing for the wrong team! 50 yard penalty, touchdown for Brady!”
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Something has to be done about the referees.
This season hasn’t been as bad as last year for egregious gaffes, but the officiating has been awful. The refs really need to have this be their full time job, too much hangs on their decisions to be a part time thing.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 14, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Funny thing...
Of the two quarterbacks that played today, Tom Brady wasn’t the one with the higher QB rating.
In fact, of all the QB’s that have played this week, Moore ranks fairly high on the list.
I’m twisted and confused. If we would have won today, would we be all be on a completely different cloud with Moore?
With a cool head, I have to attribute this to loss to the O.C. – again.
Moore went 15/30. If we would have chosen 10 run plays in place of 10 pass plays, limiting him to 20 (as many on this blog have said to do many times) we could very well have won today, considering the way Williams all three of our backs were running. I also wonder how many completions Moore would have ended up with if he only had 20 attempts?
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
10
following along with his 50% completion percentage. This game was lost for two reason’s, bad officiating which led directly to the first TD (PI call on Connor), and bad playcalling. It should be a capital offense for Williams to carry the ball less than 20 times.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
I really think he would’ve hit the 75% mark. If we continued running it down their throats at the rate we were, they’d have to slack on the coverage to stop D.T., allowing us to hand pick Moore’s passes resulting in higher completions.
Regardless, I refuse to believe that Williams nor Stewart wouldn’t have scored with a few more opportunities, thus I blame the OC.
The officiating was absolutely terrible, I think we could’ve slowed them down by running, though.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Hate to nitpick...
But that phantom PI call late in the first half that led to the Pats first score was on Anderson, not Connor. I guess he didn’t get his head around to locate the ball, which is a no-no in pass coverage; I just hate it when the refs make that call with a tiny amount of contact on a deep throw with little time on the clock. Definitely seen that kind of play go as a no-call in a lot of situations.
by The Kackalack Kid on Dec 14, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
The receiver initiated the contact
ticky tack call for sure
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
thats what I’m saying: they’re throwing it for the sake of throwing it to see what Moore has and that’s not gonna win us a game. Hell, today Williams and Stewart combined had 6 less carries than Stewart alone had last week with TB. Hasn’t there been some correlation we’ve discovered with the pass/rush: win/loss ratio??
then again
we were pretty close to undefeated when winning the turnover battle. We got three, adn while they should have gotten four, we still managed to hold on to the ball.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 14, 2009 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
What the hell are you talking about, D-Ranged1???
Just because Moore had a better QB rating than Palmer, Big Ben, Cutler, Brady, Favre, Peyton, Alex Smith, Warner, and Cassel (plus 13 others) doesn’t mean he did a good job.
Does it?
Oh, yeah…guess it does.
LOL
Poor Officiating + Play Calling
Keep Moore starting, I think he’s showing potential.
With that said, the offense needs to have a sense of urgency in getting to the line and getting plays called. The illegal motion penalties were embarrassing. The protection was also terrible, yet Moore was relatively cool, and showed the ability to keep plays alive. Also, as has been said ad-nauseum, Davidson can’t make in-game adjustments. Meeks wasn’t ready for Welker, which is surprising, given that he had seen a good deal of him (holding him under 50 yards the last two times).
Finally, the 53-yard FG attempt shows that while other teams are playing chess, we’re playing checkers. Punt or go for it!
by the bomb dot com on Dec 14, 2009 5:14 AM EST reply actions
I throw my number 1 dart at
Dwayne Jarrett. The illegal shifts were at least once due to he not knowing the formation and Moose having to help him.
The second dart at Moose for dropping at least TWO key passes in his hands.
Third to coaching for not even adjusting to Wes Welker.
Last to the defensive line for their run defence and they inability to pressure Brady.
One of these days.....
I will type “defense” correctly.
Grip it and rip it....
must have been what Fox meant for the play calling against the Pats. Many nice points on here….
Was Fox trying to see what he has in Moore by letting him pass? Maybe.
Should have the ball run more. Yes!
Coaching and play calling was uninspiring and lacked creativity with little half time adjustments. Is it time for a change here…I am leaning that way.
Defense held in the first half but looked tired in the second half; stayed on the field too long.
Moore was just OK in my eyes. Can he improve? Will he be the starting caliber quarterback the Panthers need or just a backup? Unless he shows more promise over the next few games…I am leaning towards free agency or the draft.
In order to really be competitive in the league it seems that the competitive teams are putting up big passing numbers.
According to Gantt…
“It’s easy to point to numbers to suggest the Panthers’ style is an anachronism.”
“After all, only four teams in the league have more rushing attempts than pass attempts through 13 weeks (Carolina, Miami, the New York Jets and Cincinnati), and only one has a winning record (the Bengals).”
“Of the top five rushing teams in rushing yards, only the 12-0 Saints have a winning record.”
“Meanwhile, the top five teams in passing yards (Indianapolis, New England, New Orleans, Houston and Arizona) have a combined record of 44-16.”
Has Fox’s style of coaching become outdated and uncompetitive at this point?
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
THIS is a great question....
I could probably write a whole freakin’ BOOK about how the refs are making it easier to move the ball downfield throwing instead of running. With the new rules on illegal contact, and the seemingly completely arbitrary use of pass interference calls, the game is definitely becoming skewed toward the offensive side of the ball. Especially considering that O-lineman are actually allowed to hold now, which usually happens on running plays moreso than passing ones, so long as they’re keeping their hands inside the framework of the defender’s body. I think that PI and illegal contact calls are taking the place that holding calls had in the past; which is to say that you could conceivably call it on every play….
Which is why they changed the rules on holding to begin with….
Which is why it makes no sense that they changed the rules on jamming receivers downfield, unless you want passing offenses to score more often, which neatly fits into the whole “fans want to see passing” mentality that the NFL administration seems to have…
by The Kackalack Kid on Dec 14, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
too much analysis
i say keep it simple. fox should ask davidson why d-will can average over 6 yards a carry and only get 13 carries. maybe davidson would answer, “well he only got 13 carries when he averaged over 9 yards a carry, what makes you think he’ll get the ball more when he only averages a little over six?” give d-will and smitty the ball more. that’s it. i remember in the 90’s, the chicago bulls constantly ran one play…give it to jordan. just get the ball to the playmakers. why is it so hard? if i was the OC, we would probably lose badly, but d-will would have at least 20 carries and five passes thrown at him every game, and smitty would have about 15 to 20 passes thrown at him every game. i remember in 2005 when smitty caught 12 balls against the bears in the regular season and 14 more in the divisional playoff game. we won both games.
Why can't you blame the defense?
They didn’t show up the second half, PERIOD. The Patriots were able to move the ball at will in the 2nd half, and that’s on the defense
in fact, the Charlotte Observer had these grades for the defense
DEFENSIVE LINE
Grade: D minus
The Patriots really gashed the Panthers in the running game, which was somewhat of a surprise. New England ran 40 times (most for any Carolina opponent this season) for 185 yards. It marked the fifth straight game that the Panthers have allowed 139 rushing yards or more. Defensive end Julius Peppers got pressure on Brady early, but overall had a disappointing day. He had no tackles, no sacks and one quarterback hurry.
LINEBACKERS
Grade: C
Comment: Jon Beason had a game-high 16 tackles, including two for losses. However, he also appeared to get beat by tight end Ben Watson for a 5-yard TD pass. James Anderson was called for pass interference on a key play. Dan Connor, filling in for injured Na’il Diggs, had eight tackles and a fumble recovery.
DEFENSIVE BACKS
Grade: C minus
Comment: The Panthers simply had no answer for Wes Welker, especially in the second half. Randy Moss wasn’t much of a factor, raising questions about whether he was brooding over being sent home last Wednesday for being late for a team meeting. Cornerback Chris Gamble made a nice interception on a Brady pass to Moss in the first half. Safeties Chris Harris and Charles Godfrey both forced fumbles, and Godfrey put a big hit on Welker. Captain Munnerlyn was assessed a defensive holding penalty near the goal-line that helped set up a Patriots’ TD.
by adamlawson3 on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Simple...
they held the #2 offense in the league to 7 points in the 1st half but the offense could not help them out by converting the three turnovers and short fields into points. You aren’t going to win many games putting up 10 points.
The run defense has sucked all year but they prevented big plays. The bend but don’t break was working pretty good. They gave up no big plays in the passing game with the longest pass being 23 yards.
Could the defense have played better? Certainly, but if you had said before the game will you take 3 turnovers and give up only 20 points? Given how poorly the Patriots D has been I would have said ’Hell yes"
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
+1
The cogs must work together. The offense was not working with the defense, otherwise we would have ended up victorious. I know you hate to admit the offense wasn’t getting it done because that involves Moore not playing well but it’s sad and true.
It’s funny. Fox says “20 points should be enough to win”. Well, I guess he was right. The Pats put up only 20 and won, meanwhile the Panthers couldn’t even manage to reach 20 and lost. Had we reach 20, it would’ve went into O.T. and there’s no telling what would have happened.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
A Few Thoughts
Throwing the ball just to throw it, or evaluate a QB, is insane, especially when you wander outside the parameters of how you’ve built your team. If you’ve built your team to be a run first offense and then throw it 30 times to running it 20, no-one, including your QB, is playing within the parameters of how your team is designed and built to operate. Unexpected results may occur. (If that makes any sense….)
Has anyone else noticed the dropoff in the run game in conjunction with the loss of Jordan Gross? (or is it just me?)
Are we ever going to fix the “One touchdown per game should be sufficient” mentality?
I haven't really noticed any difference..
I long complained about Davidson not running the ball before Gross, and still complain now, but D-Will & J-Stew continue to put up high averages while still maintaining low carries.
Helpful reminder for James at seasons end: 2nd Rnd CSR Fan Draft Pick.
Insanity...
I often question the sanity of our coaching staff, which is why we may see a change.
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
i dont think
your evaluation will be the reason for the change. but i think others see the same thing you do that are in power ofthe organization, so YEAH
by adamlawson3 on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Floating Passes
Hey Panthers Fans – my first post.
I was wondering if anyone noticed yesterday how many of Moore’s passes almost seemed to float away or just hang… pretty much the same way that Jake’s had been doing. I didn’t get to see the entire game yesterday, but from I saw last week Moore appeared to be getting the ball there quickly, then yesterday it seemed like they were lofted in the air. I thought this was one of Jake’s problems as well, which I thought that his arm just wasn’t back to where it needed to be. But when I saw this with Moore, it made me wonder what the QB Coaching staff was working with these guys on trying to do something in particular.
Just wondering if I was seeing things…
no
moore is fine. look at all the dropped passes. our receiving corps sucks. it needs to improve.
by adamlawson3 on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Need a serious upgrade at receiving corps.
by boywonderncsu on Dec 14, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I would have to see the numbers on actual drops before I lay this on the WR corps
Maybe I can stomach watching the game again. I don’t recall but one bad drop (by Muhammad) but I remember a number of over thrown passes in the 1st half where the WR was wide open.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I rewatched the game last night.
I only saw 2 passes that could be truly credited as drops. 1 by Steve Smith and 1 by Dante Rosario.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Moore doesn't have a lot of help
but he made some god-awful throws yesterday. He was almost never on target, and apart from that deep pass, nearly all his completions were checkdowns.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 15, 2009 3:55 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome to the blog CatFan76
I’m not sure if his ball was sailing on him or if he was just over throwing it. It does make me wonder though since both QB’s seem to have problems overthrowing the mid-range pass as to whether its a similar throwing mechanics problem. It doesn’t bode well for QB Rip Scherer does it?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
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