Carolina Panthers’ Monday Morning Optimist 11/9/09
by James Dator on Nov 9, 2009 9:47 AM EST
Email
Print
Good morning Panther faithful. We came close, very, very close... and that's why this win hurts more than it should. I said in Wednesday's prognostication column that the Panthers were a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde team, and that Mr. Hyde (the beast) would need to show up for 60 minutes in New Orleans if we hoped to best the Saints. We got 30 minutes of beastliness, and 30 minutes of the placid doctor on Sunday; and that's why we're 3-5 this morning.
We were a confident fan base heading into the weekend; but we all knew just how hard this game was going to be. The Saints were 7-0 for a reason, conversely we were 3-4 for a reason, and that reason had a lot to do with being unable to find our identity. As fast as we gained it, we lost it in the second half of Sunday's game. Players blew coverage, the offense stalled, and we left too much of an opening for the best offense in the NFL to burn us.
So, it's time to lick our wounds, look behind the numbers and find out what went wrong in the Bayou.
More after the jump...
Maybe someone should head to Charlotte with a TV, a DVD player and a copy of Herm Edwards' famous ‘You play to win the game' post-game press conference. It seems that the coaching staff (in particular John Fox and Jeff Davidson) didn't look interested in winning the game. They wanted to keep it close so it would be tougher to fire them in their exit interviews. When the Panthers jumped to the lead in the first half, going into halftime it seems the prevailing wisdom was ‘Let's do what we did last week, just keep running the ball and burn the clock'. That wisdom worked against Arizona because the defense was able to consistently get turnovers, but against New Orleans we were not going to have as much luck.
A couple of weeks ago after Buffalo I excluded Jake Delhomme from the Optimistic/Pessimistic ratings to focus on him. Well, now's the time to focus on offensive co-coordinator Jeff Davidson who's made a weekly name for himself on the pessimistic side of the column. It's hard to believe this man has been with the team over a season, and it's hard to believe the team went 12-4 last season with him at the helm of the offense. He is clearly a man who looks petrified he's going to lose his job and will do anything to keep it, including sinking the team.
The questionable play calls were vast. Okay, you have success with Tyrell Sutton twice on FB dives; we get it, but why call that play on the 1 yard line? Botched handoff or not, I never want a rookie in his first game, with less than 3 carries to his name to be responsible for a goal line dive; especially with DeAngelo and Stewart in the wings. There is no excuse for it.
While their may be some hidden blueprint for how many carries D-Will should get and how many J-Stew should have it needs to be malleable. It was clear that J-Stew was ineffective yesterday and DeAngelo was the hot hand. You ride that pony as much as you can and you don't stop until you've won the game. Williams had 14 carries in the first half, and 7 in the second. Conversely, Stewart had 6 carries in the first half and 7 in the second. Is this the idea of a halftime adjustment? Going to the weaker back? There are going to be days where Williams is better and there are going to be days Stewart is better, but not recognizing which is which becomes a major failing of the offensive coordinator.
Then we come to the passing game. 17 of Jake Delhomme's 30 passing attempts came in the 4th quarter; we ran the ball 7 times. The game was not out of hand in the 4th and only truly over after the Williams fumble. What is the excuse for passing the ball 71% of the time in the 4th? Was this supposed to stop the bleeding? Without Muhsin Muhammad and Dante Rosario how exactly was the passing game going to be dynamic enough to best the Saints? Had Jake thrown an interception, or a pick 6 in the 4th we'd all be in Charlotte right now with flaming torches and pitchforks; maybe we still should. If John Fox survives this season Jeff Davidson has to go... he has to... he's that bad.
It wasn't all bad though in New Orleans, like I said earlier it stings more than it probably should, but there were some bright spots in the game. I'm going to kick off the individual ratings a little differently today. During the live thread and via e-mail I had numerous requests for players who deserve to be in this morning's column and I appreciate the feedback... but, some of them I don't see as positive or negative so I'll start with a few ‘pushes' of noticeable players who either erased great performances with mediocrity, or vice-versa.
DeAngelo Williams- Push: Loved the TD runs D-Will, I really did. You had them reeling! But the dropped TD pass and the fumble... not so much.
Dwayne Jarrett- Push: Loved that you caught some passes this week and liked your run blocking. Didn't love the dropped deep pass in the 4th; you should have had that one.
Optimistic
Ron Meeks- Somewhat Optimistic: The defense did an outstanding job against the Saints on a whole. Revshawn said it best yesterday stating that the Panthers only allowed 23 points (sans the D-Will fumble) yesterday. The big gains were preventable and hurt us, but New Orleans are a team who averaged 39 points and 428 yards going into Sunday's game. The Panther's D allowed 23 points and 414 yards. Holding an offense as good as the Saints under their averages is a major accomplishment, and who knows what could have happened if playmaker Thomas Davis was able to stay in the full game. A dark spot however is that the Panthers fell to 7th in the NFL in pass defense after this game.
Jon Beason- Somewhat Optimistic: The leader played a great game. He called out numerous defensive adjustments that helped solidify the goal line stands.
Gary Barnidge- Somewhat Optimistic: Barnidge is starting to develop into the pass catching and blocking TE we were hoping he would. Let's hope he keeps it up.
Tyrell Sutton- Somewhat Optimistic: Wow Tyrell, where have you been? Sutton played well enough to vault over Mike Goodson on the depth chart and proved dynamic in his playing time.
Chris Gamble- Somewhat Optimistic: Nice game Chris. He tackled well and had an INT, enough to get recognized.
Tyler Brayton- Somewhat Optimistic: Good game by Tyler with a sack and FF. He's making a name for himself on the d-line.
Pessimistic
Richard Marshall- Extremely Pessimistic: Get burned once, shame on you... get burned twice... still shame on you, and now you're in this section of the column. The two biggest gains of the day by Devery Henderson and Robert Meachem were directly related to Richard Marshall's coverage. He also offered no help in stopping outside runs, horrible game.
Julius Peppers- Somewhat Pessimistic: Pep was a non-factor on Sunday. We expected so much more.
Sherrod Martin- Somewhat Pessimistic: I think we all drank from the Kool-Aid a little too soon. I expected more this week.
Overall Analysis
We played the Saints well, very well. Perhaps better than any other team has played the Saints this season. While we lost the battle, we haven't lost the war. We have a game with Atlanta next and a chance to pull a little closer in the NFC South. Losses by Chicago, Green Bay and the NY Giants help our cause to push for a wild card. It's going to be extremely difficult and darn near impossible, but there's still hope yet. We did play well against New Orleans, but right now we have to fight with a team every week and an offensive coordinator... something has to give.
60% Optimistic heading home to face the Falcons.
98 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good morning James
And once again thanks for your optimist column. I look forward to reading it every Monday (or Tuesday god willing) morning. You’re 100% right that this loss stings just so much more after how well we played in the 1st half. Just think what our season outlook would have been had we taken the Saints to 7-1 and moved ourselves to 4-4. But alas, it wasn’t to be, and the best we can hope for is some payback at season’s end.
We have to hope against all hope that the injury to Thomas Davis is not serious. We cannot stand to lose a player of his caliber. After he went down, the defense fell flat in run support, as Pierre Thomas was routinely crushing us for about 8 yards per carry after his departure. Without him, we were exposed.
Some more Optimism…
Special Teams didn’t make any mistakes on Sunday, and we had a punt we were able to down at the 2 yard line. Goodson, while not busting any big returns, was at least catching the ball clean and running straight ahead.
Everette Brown is looking exactly like the guy we drafted, and appears to have a bright future ahead in Carolina. He had a crucial tipped pass to keep the Saints out of the end zone. Typically you don’t see rookies getting their hands up like that, good job.
God help me… but I am going to add that Jake Delhomme has gone 2 games without an interception, and his passes seemed to be much more under control on Sunday than they had been. He had a couple deep balls that should have been caught, as well as a dropped TD pass by D-Will. I am cautiously optimistic that he is breaking out of the funk.
I'm telling ya, it was his mechanics
notice how he’s been better since they promised to let him throw his way?
I love the smell of optimism in the morning
Great analysis James.
I (as I have stated on here several times) blame Jeff “Gump” Davidson for this one. The 4th quarter playbook was atrocious. It was like he accidentally picked up his Madden 2010 play guide instead, and just decided to “Ask Madden” on every play.
The 2 straight deep bombs and sack on the NO 43 is the drive that sticks in my mind as the game-loser. Had we given the ball to D-Will, there is no way that he couldn’t have got 8 yards in 3 carries (ok, it’s possible, but not likely). We could have tied the game at 23 or took the lead 27-23 at that point, but Gump gave the game away there. The D-Will fumble was just icing on the cake — the game was already lost, IMO.
But, the defense played well (except for Marshall’s two “I’ll just stand here and let him get wide open” plays) and should feel good about themselves for holding the top offense in the league to 23 points (coming after a week of only allowing 21 to the Cards offense). I just hope Davis isn’t seriously hurt, or I’m afraid the season is over.
If we can beat Atlanta and Miami and get back to 5-5, we have a chance. If we fall to 4-6 or 3-7, then it’s time to put Moore in and see what we have going forward.
The next four games...
are very winnable. Atlanta is showing some weakness, but still are playing tough. Miami is relying too heavy on the Wildcat, which if we can get a lead early like the last two weeks, we can beat them. The Jets are an average team right and finally we have the Bucs. There is a good chance we could be 7-5 going into N.E. If this is the case we will still be in the playoff hunt at that point. The last four games will be tough (N.E., Vikes, Giants, NO). To really have a shot, we will probably need NO to lose a game before week 17.
Whew, you are optomistic if you see us at 7-5...
6-6 maybe…we are staring at 8-8 on the season. Not feeling optimistic today….
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Winnable Games
I think these are very winnable games. N.E. is going to be tough, but the other three are very winnable; especially if the Giants continue to play the way they are playing. I’m a little nervous about the Vikes, (again nervous, not worried) but I think that Brett is way over due for a multiple (4) INT ball game. Then there is the oppertunistic Saints, who galdly took the win we GAVE them. I think the next time we play (with the season on the line), and them being 15-1 (they will lose before we play again) they won’t have anything to play for, so I don’t think they are going to risk losing Drew Brees to Injury, so with that being said they might bench him for that game. The result they won’t be in a position for us to GIVE them the game.
We are an average team...
only good news about that is that there are a lot of them in the NFL. So it is still remotely possible that we could still sneak into the playoffs as a wildcard.
To make the Panthers above the crowd of ‘average’ teams, there are fixable solutions: Gross needs to stop giving up blind-side sacks (I don’t keep count, but it seems he’s already exceeded the number he gave up last year); Marshall needs to ride the pine — he looks lost out there, and got exposed badly yesterday on the 2 long gainers — no idea where he should’ve been; we need to see more of Kenneth Moore, who made a nice catch in traffic on the only ball thrown to him; Peppers should have dominated the inferior OT blocking him yesterday, and needs to reassert himself again (maybe he was doubled every play, but I doubt it); and Landon Johnson can’t be the replacement for Thomas Davis, should TD be unable to go next week — I’d prefer Dan Connor or James Anderson (who played the position in pre-season with great success.
Correct me if I'm wrong
but wasn’t Peppers hurt early in the game, if so maybe that explains his lack of dominance. I think he may have even sat out most of the game, not sure though as I wasn’t watching.
As for Marshall, several of those long gains weren’t his fault. The Henderson gain Gamble lost track of him and just barely caught up, not Marshall. On the Meachem TD, Gamble went for the ball or hit and missed, leaving Meachem wide open for a score. The 48 yard Colston gain may have been on Marshall, but I think I remember it was on Sherrod Martin from the broadcast. My point is, Peppers and Marshall don’t deserve the pessimistic rating, especially as both were playing lights out before this week. I think they’ll get back on track against Atlanta.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 10, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, you're right about Peppers
He reportedly had a badly swollen hand – probably got it hitting a face mask during a bull rush on the OT. That might account for later lack of production. Hadn’t considered that. He’ll need to step it up vs Atlanta. These are now desperate times.
I remember when he hurt it now that you mention it...saw him looking at it
but didn’t realize he missed plays because of it
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
There are a few things that should happen IMO for us to win…
Jake needs to be able to just go out and improvise. He’s exorcised the demons and gotten out of his own head… he’s looking more confident going to pass than he was… in the last 2 games anyway.
Gump needs to realize this team is built to run the ball and those are the plays he needs to be calling. Passing doesn’t work because Smitty’s always covered and Dwayne just isn’t cutting it.
Fox and company REALLY REALLY need to learn how to adjust at half time! Opposing teams know how… the Panthers apparently still don’t know how to adjust.
Adjust what?
Run left instead of right? A one dimensional offense has nothing to adjust.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
we passed 17 times in the 4th. Seems if we were so “one-dimensional” we would have ran.
but we didn’t, cause Davidson sucks.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Nov 9, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well, well, well, it's that time again...
Another CAR vs ATL battle. Nice game against NO. How do y’all feel about this week?
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Still sulking from the loss
we will have to get back to you until be digest what the hell just happened
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
We had that feeling last week...
You go out and play a great game, even catch a few breaks, and still lose. NO is very good…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
You guys might be facing a very pissed Panther team
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
W/O Davis, an already bad run D will get worse...
And Turner suddenly remembered he’s a stud RB, I think CAR is just having one of those years. We’ve had plenty of them
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
I don't think they are that good...
The offense is good but still not sold on the D being SB quality…
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Their run defense has holes, but who has time to expoit that when you have to play catch up to their offense...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Very good my foot. They’re just catching lucky breaks. If they were very good, they’d have 20 points before the half, the opposing team wouldn’t have any and it would be true domination. Last 3 games the Aint’s got manhandled by the teams they played and were lucky in pass coverage breaking down. Trailing by 2 or 3 TD’s at half time isn’t being very good…
Aint’s ain’t dominating. I suspect they’ll lose to the Rams becaue it’s a trap game.
You'll be facing a team with their backs to the wall
If the Panthers lose to the Falcons their already slim playoff hopes are DEFINITELY finished.
I could trot out the customary cliche about the danger of taking on a cornered animal, but I think the Panthers are already declawed this year.
We still have teeth.
And with their offense slumping one or two takeaways could finish them off.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 10, 2009 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
yes, the CAR run game is still there, but unless you can stretch the field on ATL, it's going to be a long day...
Nothing from Jake makes me believe he can do that anymore consistently. I’d love to see him try, lol…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Nole, I hate to do this
especially because you seem like such an optimist, but here is why we have a great chance to beat the Falcons.
Our Pass D
They are still #7, and are going to come out fighting mad. If Ryan continues his slump, you won’t be able to effectively throw it.
Your Run D
If you saw D-Will’s TD run, either one, you know you’re going to be in for a long day. Ryan and Turner can’t hurt us if they barely see the field.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 11, 2009 7:03 AM EST up reply actions
Thank for that, now let's look are advanced stats shall we?
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2009/week-9-dvoa-ratings
As you can see, ATL’s DVOA rankings for off, def, and ST are 14, 19, and 16 respectfully. CAR’s numbers are 23, 13,and 31(!) respectfully. Coach Mike Smith holds to the old addadge that if you win in 2 of the 3 phases of the game, you can win. Our offense is better, and are special teams are much better. You barely beat WAS and TB, and lost to BUF. C’mon man….
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
We beat Arizona
Played the Saints closer than you. ;)
by Flowing Willow on Nov 12, 2009 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
Was it just me, or did NO blister us with screen passes in the second half?
I was watching on Gamecenter, and it seems like they routinely threw screens to Reggie Bush that went for around five to ten yards. Meeks is gonna have to address that.
i knew it
i knew i wasn’t the only one who has been noticing that. the screen pass to the RBs work WAYYY too good on us. i see it happen to us constantly and think, “why the hell aren’t we doing that? especially how fast our RBs are???”
by boywonderncsu on Nov 9, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
That was my biggest worry going into the game
tough to defend
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I can't believe you guys are blaming Jake's problems on Davidson and DWill
I don’t like Davidson, but to be fair he only has half a playbook to work with because we’ve scratched out 95% or the passing plays. Also, DWill and JStew are being asked to convert 3rd and longs and to do it all day long against 8+ man boxes… and we are surprised they fumble? Any RB would fumble in this situation. Davidson lead a 12-4 offense last year, and DeAngelo had 0 fumbles… that wasn’t a fluke.
The ONLY difference is the lack of a passing game! That would vastly open up Davidson’s options, and prevent DWill from having to be Superman every game.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Can't believe you don't blame Davidson.
Our run is successful, yet he chooses to pass. We passed 30 times yesterday, that’s 10 more than I wanted to see. The pass cost us the game.
I will reiterate again..
mid field, 3-4 minutes left in the game, Davidson screwed us by calling passes. It wasn’t Delhomme, he should have never been asked to throw them with Williams back there.
Williams averaged over 7 yards per carry, 4+ when you take away his early 66yd touchdown run. There is no reason what-so-ever that we should not have continued to run the ball, eating up the clock in the mean time.
That drive defined the game, and lost it. The rest of the game was football, it happens. That drive, however, was win or lose and Davidson lost with stupid calls. No one but Davidson to blame.
Jake is a game manager, he’s no longer a game winner. Davidson ask Jake to win the game. It didn’t happen.
We must have been watching a different game
Because I saw us run very successfully in the first half, and then I saw the Saints run defense tighten up in the 2nd. I also saw half of those 30 passes come in the last 5 minutes.
But I can’t believe you guys think we can beat the best team in the league just by running every play… And do you expect that plan to work the whole season, and into the playoffs? That’s ridiculous. I said I don’t like Davidson.. but he got us 12 wins when we had passing game. Now we don’t… that’s the ONLY difference.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
They tightened up, yes, but they didn’t put a stop to it. I’m not talking about the whole game, nor the rest of the season, only the drive that came down to being the “win or lose” drive. We were down and the clock was low, so we had 4 downs to work with.
I truly believe Williams & co could have made the march down field for a TD. We could have thrown in a few short passes but certainly none going deep.
Even if we scored, what was the point of trying to go deep anyways? Why would he want New Orleans to have plenty of time to go back down field and score again when it looked like we really weren’t doing a good job stopping them any longer?
I'm going to stay optimistic...
…and here’s why. No one expected us to win against New Orleans. We played them incredibly well and almost won it. That’s what makes it all the more painful today. However, if the team hadn’t gone through a massive amount of improvement over the past few weeks and changed how they played at the beginning of the season, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion or complaining so much…because we’d already be out of it.
However, with the Packers, Bears, and Giants all losing…and an opportunity to hand Atlanta another loss, we could still climb back into the thick of the wild card hunt. Philly or Dallas will probably grab one of the wild cards. That leaves us in contention for the other one…with Atlanta being the one we have to target the most. We also get to play the Giants later in the year, so we can ensure they don’t re-enter the picture. As long as Minnesota keeps hammering away at the NFC North and Arizona takes care of business by beating up the NFC West, that’s how I see the playoff picture at this point in the season. We’ve shown enough improvement to play better against our upcoming schedule than most might have imagined after starting 0-3.
So, lets go deeper into the optimism for a second. Delhomme really didn’t play that badly. And I saw a lot of fire out of him directed at the sidelines and the coaching staff. Personally, I’m hoping he directed some of that straight at Jeff Davidson for the playcalling and mix-ups requiring Jake to call timeouts. Let’s hope John Fox, Delhomme, and others start talking some sense to Davidson and they get some of these kinks worked out. He had 0 INTs again…completed some big, pressure-filled passes…and although he fumbled on 4th down, he had to hold the ball until he could find an open receiver. Unfortunately, the O-line couldn’t hold back the pass-rush forever…and none of the receivers could get open.
Secondly, the new personnel contributed pretty nicely yesterday. Yes, Jarrett dropped a pass he probably should have had…but it would have required a diving catch where he voluntarily planted himself face-first into the turf. To me, it’s understandable he couldn’t hang onto that one…and Jake’s never been the most accurate with the deep ball anyway. Kenny Moore had a great catch that helped keep the chains moving. Gary Barnidge made another unbelievable grab. And Tyrell Sutton was a pleasant surprise coming in as a heavy enough RB to shoulder the FB position. I didn’t expect that. And he did pretty good with some runs up the middle. More importantly, he got some experience. Meanwhile, on the defensive side of the ball, Sherrod Martin got his second start. No, he didn’t duplicate his 2 INT day against Arizona, but I also didn’t see him blowing coverages like Richard Marshall either. Now, Marshall might blame those on an expectation Martin would cover his receiver after letting him by…but even the announcers yesterday remarked that Marshall didn’t properly stay with the guy deeply enough to ensure there wouldn’t be a seam in the coverage for Brees to exploit. To me, Martin did his job. And he performed very well for going up against the Saints passing game. All these guys did. And now they’ve got game experience to learn from…
But how about more optimism? Despite his fumble at the 2-yard line that allowed New Orleans to put the game out of reach, I thought Deangelo Williams was the best thing going for the Panthers offense all day long. His dropped pass where the Panthers had to settle for a FG wasn’t that bad to me, either. Yes, he got his hands on it. But Jake put a lot of steam on that ball and I’m not even sure Deangelo would have held onto it as quickly as the defender got there. Regardless, he romped in the running game. His 66-yarder really helped take the Superdome crowd out of it…and his follow-up TD after Brayton’s forced fumble really helped Carolina establish the exact game plan they needed to execute. He converted some key 3rd downs by running the ball hard for us. And I just wish Davidson would have stuck with him more often rather than substituting Stewart as often as he did. There were several key plays where I noticed they had pulled Deangelo and I was shouting, “No! Put him back in!”
So, how about even more optimism? The special teams. No big special teams plays were allowed. Rhys Lloyd had key touchbacks for us. And we limited the Saints on punt returns. We also pinned them at the 2-yard line. And tackling was much improved. It wasn’t a game-changing performance (for either side), but I’ll take that over the effort we’ve been getting in previous games this season. Also, John Kasay kicking FGs with a pulled groin…and making all of them. I don’t know the extent of his injury, but that’s worth noting.
Lastly, how about one final shot of optimism. The defense. Wow. Holding New Orleans to 23 points (minus the fumble return TD) is better than I expected. Guys really were flying all over the field. I remember Damione Lewis running down a guy to force the Saints to go three-and-out. Beason was making sure everyone knew their role. Brayton came up big with the forced fumble early in the game. Chris Gamble made a sweet INT to kill another New Orleans’ drive. Thomas Davis blew up their RB in the backfield. They were really giving it their all. Now some of them started running out of gas in the 4th quarter. And who could blame them really? Richard Marshall blew coverage a couple of times and made me yell at the TV. And losing Thomas Davis to the knee injury and having to endure Landon Johnson filling in for him didn’t help anything. But, all in all, I really like what I see out of Ron Meeks’ defense.
So, before anyone jumps off a ledge to end the pain of this loss, take a deep breath…appreciate the things we did well…have faith they’ll recognize the things they did wrong and work to improve them…look at the remaining schedule and have hope the Panthers can pick up some wins given how they’ve turned things around…and, lastly, know that we get Atlanta next week and New Orleans to end the season at our place, and hope our guys come out with a major revenge factor going for them.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
Neil, you're the best!
Each time we’ve lost, I’m just as frustrated as the next Panther fan. Then, by Tuesday, I’ve regained my rationality and evaluated the improvements, and started looking forward to the next game, with the optimism only you and James consistently show (unfortunately James is now lower than a snake’s belly, and hadn’t yet recovered — though I know he will.)
I think the overall effort was there — but for a very few plays, we’d have had that game. I don’t see us as a 3-5 team, but as a 5-3 team (the Bills game was an aberration; if we played them 10 more times, we’d win 9) — of course, this doesn’t mean I’m not facing reality — we ARE 3-5, but in a way, we’re not who we are. What I’m trying unsuccessfully to say is that we’re (despite any ranking by any expert) better than the other 3-5 or 4-4 teams out there right now.
We have major problems with the injuries to Hoover and Davis (1, maybe both are gone for the year) they’re so vital to the core of our strengths that it may be impossible to recover this year. But maybe other guys step up, like Hollis Thomas has, or like Tyrell Sutton did yesterday — that kid deserves big cred for playing a position he’s never played and is physically unsuited for — pretty much the equivalent of Steve Smith playing TE.
There are guys on the blog who spend all their time calling for somebody to be fired, and isn’t it funny how the object guy changes over time? We’ve heard a major outcry to fire Peppers, then Delhomme, then Fox, now Davidson (did I miss somebody? Jarrett maybe?) — but you, Neil, always try to reestablish some sanity to being a fan, and I thank you for it.
We’ve got who we’ve got, and I pull for these guys on the roster to do the best they can, not to burn them at the stake every time a play fails. They’re still a classy team, not a bunch of finger-pointing, me-first prima donnas who beat their chests after a tackle, or take cheap shots out of bounds.
Still proud to be a Panthers’ fan.
"Lower than a snake's belly" ?
lol bigdavis, I may be licking my wounds but I’m not that pessimistic yet.
We have a lot to be proud of in Sunday’s loss… it just hurts when something’s so close you can taste it and you just miss. I had too many dreams of us beating the Saints then doing a miraculous run of the table to end 12-4 again.
I can’t share in any optimism when it comes to Jeff Davidson, none. I gave the guy kudos last week for pounding the rock and I got burnt again this week. It’s not bad playcalling per se, it’s WTF playcalling.
Truth is, 3 passes beat us yesterday… just 3:
1. DeAngelo’s dropped TD
2. Jarrett’s dropped bomb
3. Steve Smith’s blown deep route when he pulled up short
I just hope this team has the tenacity to play through without Thomas Davis.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
And one other play, besides those 3 passes...
…and this was just bad luck, to me. On the 1st and goal (which, if run in for the score from the one, would’ve eliminated your #1 from ever existing), part of the extra 63 lbs that Bernadeau was carrying on him (Bernadeau – Hoover = 63) bumped into Jake after the snap, causing the bobble and 6 yd loss. That’s like 4+ bowling balls swinging in the air in a tight space, something that threw off the timing of the exchange. Had Brad been in there, it never would have happened, and most likely, we’d have scored 7 instead of 3, the score would’ve been 24-13 Panthers, and we don’t lose.
They say this is a game of inches, but sometimes it’s a game of extra poundage.
This from Steve Reed, Gaston Gazette:
Reeder’s Take
The real turning point of the game came in the 3rd quarter
November 9th, 2009, 12:33 pm · Post a Comment · posted by sreed
I think the real turning point of Sunday’s game between the Panthers and Saints came in the third quarter when, after the Saints scored to close the gap to 17-13, the Panthers were unable to punch it in on first-and-goal from the Saints 1-yard line.
The Panthers put together a great 16-play drive to get there and had regained control of the momentum.
But on first down makeshift fullback Mackenzy Bernadeau, who is a backup lineman, bumped into Jake Delhomme as he tried to hand the ball off to Jonathan Stewart. Delhomme couldn’t get the handoff to Stewart and was tackled in the backfield for a 6-yard loss.
On second down, Stewart was stopped for no gain.
Then on third down DeAngelo Williams dropped a pass in the end zone, one that he agreed he should have caught.
The end result was three points instead of seven. And it was a one-possession game instead of a two-possession game.
After that the Saints went right back down the field and tied the game with a touchdown. It was pretty much all Saints from there on out. Say what you want about the play calling down in the final minute of the game, but that’s where the Panthers lost this game.
Im still optimistic also....
We played the Saints as tough as anyone so far. As much as I hated Davidson’s sequence of play calling during the definitive drive (at the NO 43 with about 4:00 left) the bottom line is the Panthers didn’t come up with the plays when we needed them and the Saints capitalized.
Right now we’re only 2 games out of the wildcard spot with 8 games left. Looking at the current NFC standings its entirely concievable that a 9-7 team may make the playoffs. IMHO The Panthers need to go no worse than
6-2 and win their remaining NFC games to have a legitimate shot. Stranger things have happened
Its over.
Fox is such a stubborn moron. No second half adjustments, the usual turtling playing style, & ridiculous play calling. Not having confidence in your QB will result in runs on third and forever. You gotta love the guy, he sticks with this terrible QB & offers him an extension but now he wont let the 20 million dollar QB throw passes in the first half. Ironically , when they are up in the second half, he lets Delhomme have at it & completely abandons the run. lol
"it's a bad day to have a bad day"
Passing when you are behind in the 4th is a desperation move
The Saints were much better stopping the run in the 2nd half. And the later it got the more they looked like they were going to score everytime they had the ball. So we had to throw, try to score and get points quick. You just can’t run run run forever. The problem is our lack of a QB.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Nov 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We were only down by 3...
With no more than 4 minutes left.. I forget the exact seconds.. but a running drive would have chewed that time away easily. A score would have put us up by 4 and New Orleans would have only had a few shots down field.
Instead, Davidson turned it into a nightmare.
I don't like Davidson either, but put it this way
Replace Jake with Drew Brees yesterday, and the Panthers win… might not have even been close!
Replace Davidson with Sean Payton and we still lose… Because a QB who can’t throw doesn’t win games, no matter who the coordinator is.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I believe the first.. not the latter… I still don’t understand why clock management is being ignored.
In fact, let me clarify… I agree that we cannot win the majority of games with a QB that can’t pass.. However, in the situation we were in, I just don’t understand the call and lack of even attempting to manage the clock to get a go-ahead score with little time left.
If you're referring to the need for 2 scores and a successful onsides kick...
…all in the last 2 minutes — I think most coaches would have tried for the TD first, with the ball inside the 5 — better chance to then have enough time for a FG, provided the onside kick were successful (which is no sure thing, but we’re both assuming here)
If you’re referring to another play call, then ignore what I just said.
lol
I agree with what you’ve said, but what I was referring to was around the four minute mark…
I was overly excited, I just knew Carolina was about to upset the Saints. Here we had the ball with only four minutes remaining, we were sitting mid field, and were only down by 3 points. At the absolute worst, we eat the clock up on the ground and kick a field goal, going into overtime. However, I was beyond that. I knew that Carolina would hand the ball off to Williams and let him work his magic. Surely he wouldn’t get a first down with every carry but he would get 10 in 4 downs or less. We’d chew the clock up, pound the ball, and score with little to no time left for New Orleans to march the field. Our defense would stop one or two deep attempts from Brees, and Carolina would begin to celebrate their victory.
That’s what I knew was going to happen, it was all too perfect, Carolina was going to pull out another fourth quarter victory.
Stewart takes the hand off and gains two yards. That’s alright, we’ve still got three downs to play at this point. Williams will take us home…
Deep pass to Smith, incomplete, ouch, w-t-f!
Ok, that was odd..
Deep pass to Jarrett, incomplete, OUCH! W-T-F!
Now I’m worried… Just that quick, it all slipped away…
Delhomme sacked and fumbled. Game over.
I then went and found Jim and was angry and sad at the same time for the rest of the day, only now finally coming out of the somber.
The clock management question was about the two deep passes… even if they connected and we got the touchdown, I am not sure why we would have wanted to allow New Orleans that much time with the ball, knowing their chances to score were high.
"I then went and found Jim"
Would that be your friend, Mr. Beam?
Mostly agree D.W.G....
Steve Reed had an article on what Fox looked for in a QB and he replied…
-Leadership
-Smarts
-The way he throws and the measurable things
Fox says-“Jake’s all those, and he’s won a lot of games.”
The first two maybe but the third, I just do not see anymore.
Additonally, the first one some people have whereas others may need to develop with experience. Matt Moore must be just plain stupid is the only thing I can gather from those statements. But I kinda doubt that.
I don't think Fox is a bad coach
But he needs a more dynamic QB, that can compensate for his lack of creativity.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
When I wish upon a star.
That’s the song we seem to be singing with the upcoming schedule, the possible loss of T Davis and a coach that is coaching like he did 6 or 7 years ago. The league has changed the way it plays but John Fox didn’t. We will do good to be 6-10 at years end.
Quit hating on the long pass
DJ just needs to catch it. Even with great running backs you need to be able to throw the ball once in a while. Jake is still overthrowing recievers.
As for the run down, I agree with the Marshall assesment dont forget how many passes Henderson dropped.
Also nice play by Sutton, I think we are a young team that can be better than .500 in a few seasons. Highly optimistic that we are not the Rams or Lions or even the Redskins and we will be back as aleague dominator within 2-3 seasons.
It's not over just yet, but it WILL be next week...
with a loss to the Falcons.
A loss next week puts the Falcons 3 games up in the wild card race. It’s pure fantasy to expect the Panthers to overcome a 3-game deficit when you look at the last 4 games on their schedule AND you factor in that the Falcons will own the H2H tiebreaker.
A loss next week means the Panthers, with their brutal 4-game home stretch, would have to play the remaining 7 games 4 games better than the Falcons (who have a weaker 2nd half schedule) AND count on either Philly or Dallas completely crapping out, which is highly unlikely.
Next week is a MUST WIN for the Panthers to retain any hope of making the playoffs. And even that’s still a slim one at that.
Without the loss to the Bills this loss wouldn't be so devastating
but as it is the Panthers are playing for season practically every week now. Lose to Falcons at home and you can stick a fork in them.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
That was in my view the first game we lost since 2007
that we should have won…had no business losing. The Panthers were good at winning the games they should last season.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
When I think about this season compared to last
I see a much better defense, and a running game that is just as dominant. I just can’t see any difference other than Jake’s performance.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
After it's all said and done, the title encapsulating the 2009 Panthers' Season should be...
“Not good enough to make the playoffs, not crappy enough to win the Tebow lottery”
He’s good at running a spread offense, not an NFL one.
by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 9, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
'Tebow lottery'
There is no Tebow lottery… unless you live in Jacksonville, FL.
The rest of this NFL projects him as a 3rd rounder, where he should be.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
i'm the lone Panther fan in the "McCoy lottery"
oh well
by SmithnCompany on Nov 9, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I have nothing against McCoy at all.
Spread QBs do scare me though.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Well done James as usual
I’m not too deflated by this loss, our defense held a team with over 400 yards of total offense to 2 touchdowns and 3 field goals. At the end of the day it was the Saints Defense beating the Carolina Offense. Take away the fumble return TD and convert that last field goal and the Panthers win big in in the Big Easy. The 3rd down conversion rate was as high as I can remember, and that’s a huge deal for the Panthers.
I’m not in total agreement with South Tunnel about Jake being the issue, but he does shoulder some of the blame for the offensive woes. The coaching staff is only letting him make the plays they believe he can make (save the 4Q which made no sense at all). Teams will be watching this and last weeks game and will take away what he has left. Delhomme will need to be better bottom line if we want to do more then sniff the playoffs. However, the coaching staff should have been forward looking when they resigned Jake, I mean do they really think he would be more then a backup in one to three years?
Don’t get me wrong the coaching staff’s inability to anticipate the opponents halftime adjustments is killing this team and Jeff Davidson unwillingness to run the ball 3 points down with 4 minuets left killed this game.
Lastly Peppers may not have been making sacks last night, but I did see a number of plays where he was “blocking” passing lanes with his body. With a guy like Brees you have to shut him down at every opening and Peppers was doing that often. Still should have been more of a presence but important to the Defense none the less.
Chris Gamble- Somewhat Optimistic: He tackled well and had an INT, enough to get recognized.
Am I the only one that thinks Gamble made a couple of poor tackles Sunday?
He did miss a few tackles, good point.
I should have clarified. He wrapped up Colston very well and was good in run support helping to stop a lot of flare routes to the RB’s. He was the Panthers second leading tackler.
That’s why he’s ‘somewhat’ rather than ‘extremely’.
An endzone INT vs. the Saints counts for a lot in my book.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
He did play VERY well at times during the game
But keep in mind that one of those big passing plays happened largely because of his lack of effort in trying to bring the Saint’s receiver down. I don’t remember the exact play, but I would like to say it was the meachem touchdown catch.
by SmithnCompany on Nov 9, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
It was.
While most of the blame for allowing that TD falls on Marshall (not playing up closer to Meachum, then allowing him to run by without an attempt to knock him off stride, then just standing there as he passed by), it was Gamble who made a 1/2-hearted attempt to tackle him after the catch. I recall this was around our 30 — Gamble had a clear shot at the receiver, as he had to leave his feet to make the catch. Rather than wrapping him up, Gamble tried to throw a shoulder at him, and missed completely, letting Meachum go in unimpeded.
Were we not in the same situation last year in the Superdome?
I remember us dominating the whole game, and then the Saints coming back in the 2nd half. The difference (other than a struggling defense) was, Jake hit Smitty deep in the last couple minutes to setup a winning field goal, right?
This years defense on last years team, might have had 13 to 15 wins! That system worked when we had a QB. As vanilla and uncreative as Fox and Davidson are… give them a QB with this squad, and we’d be battling the Saints or Falcons for the division right now.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
"Play to win"
…not to lose.
James nailed it. That’s not Fox’s philosophy, and sometimes it doesn’t work.
Bottom line, we lost to a better team. This doesn’t always happen, but in this case it did.
Other notes: we kept Shockey in check, their running game (including screens) was pretty solid, and their defense was remarkably fresh after giving up some runs, usually J-Stew punishes tired defenders, but this week was definitely not an example of this.
by the bomb dot com on Nov 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST reply actions
Speaking of, I wonder what happened to Stewart? I wonder if his heel was acting up, or if they really just contained him so well?
He was bottled up
Tackled for loss in the backfield more than once. I think the plays called for him might have led to his sub-par numbers — they were stacking 8-9 in the box when he was called on, and couldn’t get untracked. Our blocking was just better vs their rushers, when D-Will was carrying it.
Disagreed on Sutton
While you make valid points re: the experience of Stewart & Williams, two points counter yours:
1) Both have had fumbling issues this year, and perhaps more importantly
2) If you don’t trust a guy playing fullback to smash it in from one yard out…why would you start him?
That being said, coming away I’d like to see Carolina steal a page from the Saints & start playing Stewart at fullback with Williams as the tailback in short yardage situations. (If they can get a hold of the “make one of their corners forget how to cover a streak route for more than 5 yards before running the wrong way” play, that’d be great too.)
1) Fumbling issue or not, they’re two of the best RBs in the league. You don’t refuse to carry an umbrella in the rain because you’re afraid of lightning.
2) You think Sutton was chosen by design? He played well, no doubt, but he never EVER gets a look unless both Hoover and Fiametta are out.
Brad Hoover has had 2 carries in 2009…. Tyrell Sutton had 3 in yesterday’s game. That tells me that FB runs are not something that are a priority in the Carolina offense, so why risk a touchdown on one?
How many times do you think Sutton has had the opportunity to receive handoffs from Jake? 1 week of practice worth… maybe? Jake messed the play up, but it was a stupid call.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Stupid call, yes.
I’d like to see Sutton on field as a RB sometime. He did good on his few carries, I wonder if he could carry that over to running back.
Lets not forget Jonathan Stewart came in as a rookie and put up great numbers… Goodson or Sutton could each possibly do the same, the only difference is Carolina already has two great backs, unlike the beginning of last season, and don’t really need another.
Still, it’d be nice to see some spare touches go their way. Sutton maybe more so than Goodson, ‘til we know he won’t fumble every other play.
I'd really like to see Sutton on kickoffs
he did well with the Packers in preseason, and rather than stutter, he will go straight ahead. He is also tough to bring down.
Of course if Goodson learns to return a kickoff then we don’t need Sutton.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 10, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
Our kick and punt returns are lacking something
I’ve never been back there to field a punt or KO, but just watching a thousand of them over the years, it seems to me that the ones who are successful at it have a predetermined route or angle they’re planning to take, and they hit that route as hard as they can — then, if the blocks are there, it’s a chunk of yards, or all the way.
But our guys rarely do anything but hesitate, stutter-step, and fall forward into the pile. The least nanosecond of hesitation gives all the advantage to the oncoming tacklers, and all the foot speed in the world can’t make up for it.
I think Munnerlin and Moore ‘almost’ broke a couple in early games, but there should be a better way than the way we’ve been doing it. As it is, I think we all cringe when opponents kick to us. Problem is, our returners are probably cringing, too.
saints fan word
the panthers played a hell of a game, nothing to hang your head down about,as a Saints fan, you guys scared the hell out of us, only thing that bothers me about Fox he always looks like he carries rhat red flag in his hands at all times, He has made some bad decisions the last couple of years on Q B, s and somehows he seems to keep his job, and never takes resonsibility for his stupid mistakes but as a Saints fan I am glad yall hang on to Fox because if you dumped him, I am sure Coward would end up in Carolina, because I read a section in Time magazine that is the job he is waiting for, but for some reason Richardson hangs on to Fox but then again as a Saints fan I am Happy I do not want Coward in the NFC South because he will dominate,,
I've only heard that Cowher is too comfy in his new job to come back to coaching
I like Fox, but I’d love to have Cowher here. I’m am just scared of us scrapping Fox for some newbie experiment.
Got a link to that article?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
