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Around SBN: Pacquiao vs Bradley: Potential Undercard Fighters

Should the Panthers run the Wildcat?

"Carolina Panthers (3-4): Any reason not to try RBs DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart in a Wildcat formation? It might showcase the team's best players and reduce interceptions."

Again, a case where someone that gets paid to write about football has probably not watched one Panther game this season.

Ok, so we do put DW in the "wildcat" every now and then, but unless I missed something, JS has never been on the field in this package. That would be more like what the Dolphins do with Brown and Williams.

Do you guys think this would be effective for us?...Necessary?

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…but I am a little curious to see if they put Stewart out there with Deangelo this week due to the lack of FBs. I doubt it. We’ll probably see Jeff King or Gary Barnidge in the FB role. But I’m curious to see if they run some wildcat (a more creative one than just Deangelo in the backfield). In my opinion, if we ever did put two RBs in the wildcat formation, I’d rather see it be Deangelo and Goodson.

by NSpicer on Nov 5, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

We put DeAngelo and Smitty back there early in the season.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 5, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d like to see it, but I’d have Stewart in @ “QB” while Williams motions across the field. In my opinion, that would give us more speed to the edge if he does decide to hand off, meanwhile more power up the middle if not.

As far as the FB position, I hope they mix it up. I think Jeff King is best suited for the role, but rotating him with the likes of Stewart and Barnidge will provide revolving options.

Think about Stewart taking a hand off from Delhomme up the middle, from the fullback position, only to spin around at the last second and pitch it out to Williams. It would either work great (The defense bites and comes forward to stop Stewart, leaving Williams with a huge amount of space to work with) or fail miserably (they don’t bite and it results in a loss of yardage). Giving Stewart the option of proceeding up in the middle, based on the defense, would also be nice.

Using some stuff like that, in my opinion, would leave the Saints absolutely bewildered against the run. I’m confident we have the talent to make it work with a little practice to get the timing down.

On the flip side, if we can continue to rush as we did against Arizona using normal formations, there really isn’t a need to go changing a lot of things.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 5, 2009 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

Personally, I'm not a giant proponent of the wildcat.

I want to know why we don’t run a full house backfield with DeAngelo, Stewart and Goodson… or sub out Goodson for Hoover/Fiametta for more blocking.

All those guys in the backfield would confuse a defense far more than a wildcat in my mind, because you still have a QB under center who can throw and our backs are apt as catching passes.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

Primarily because...

…having an extra RB in the backfield takes a line-blocking TE out of the formation at the point of attack. Or, if you keep the TE, it means you leave out a WR, which allows a CB or S to creep up in run support. It basically tips your hand completely that it’s going to be a run formation. And, with the speed and strength of pro-level defenses, it’s a LOT harder to make that kind of formation work consistently.

But that’s just my (uneducated) two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Nov 5, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

While I understand that, one of the things that has confused me the most in the NFL is this:

- When a team goes into the shotgun and has 3 WRs everyone in the stadium, every fan, every player knows theres at least an 85% chance the play is a pass.

Why not do the same thing with a run?

Pull all the WRs, play 2 TEs on the line with no WRs. Better yet, pull the TEs and put in two more OL. Think about a 7 man offensive line with DeAngelo, Stewart and Goodson in the backfield. Who exactly is going to stop that ridiculous, monster offensive line from opening 2 or 3 holes?

Dare the opponent to try and stop the run, because worst case scenario you have an RB one on one with a DB, and I’ll take the RB in that fight any day.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I absolutely could not agree with you more concerning that sentiment. They will often times commit to a pass with the defense knowing such, but can’t do so with the run? It’s basically, in my opinion, saying “Hey, we’re going to run, you know it, and I’m confident that your entire defense can’t stop us.” Given such a formation as you described, I think it’s entirely possible when used correctly.

And when the defense does commit to stopping the run, we might just be able to fake a hand off while slipping a tight end through the line into the backfield.

It seems like a lot of coaches are just scared of trying something new.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 5, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

They more or less did this, but passed out of it.

The Panthers went double-TE right, and WR left, I-formation. Then put the FB in motion to the left slot with the WR, and threw right to the TE. Got like 25 yards.

by panthersnbraves on Nov 5, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

New England have a set in which they use 6 OL. So some teams are willing to experiment…

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it

Just smash it down their throats!

by DrTarheel on Nov 5, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You generally hesitate to load up for the run like that...

…because the defense crowds the line and can stymie most plays for short yardage. And, if you try and have the RB get to the edge, they have plenty of space to string things out laterally and still run you down for short yardage. So, if you’ve got 2nd and short or 3rd and short, that makes sense. To do it play-after-play, though, is a lot more likely to make you go three and out.

Meanwhile, teams that load up for the pass in a shot gun formation still stand a reasonable chance of being successful, regardless of the defense knowing what’s coming. Why? Because there are multiple targets going out for the pass, any one of which could get open for his QB. When you hand the ball off in a running play, though, you have much fewer options…and ball gets handed off to your runner behind the line of scrimmage rather than delivered in space way down the field where it stands a better chance of moving the chains.

Daring an opponent to stop the run plays to the defense’s advantage. Daring them to stop the pass makes the odds a little more even between the offense and defense.

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Nov 5, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't D-Will throw passes in college?

Cold be an exciting option out of the wildcat, as I’m sure a D would commit to his running it.

by bigdavis on Nov 5, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

He did not.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

we did this already

when dan henning, now the oc in miami, was the oc in carolina, we ran this formation against atlanta. i think it was in 2007. it was the year that jake got hurt and weinke started three games. in the atlanta game that year, we ran the wildcat, which wasn’t called that in that season, and we ran the ball 52 times and won the game. d-will was taking a direct snap on every 3rd down and running with it. it worked.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

I'm afraid that...

Steve would flip the F out if we ever come in with a gameplan like that again. I do think it would be the way to go against the Saints right now though.

by ERL on Nov 5, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Incorporate him too!

Steve Smith has had some nice gains on Reverses. Mix him in.

by DrTarheel on Nov 5, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

He's said it himself...

If we’re winning, he’ll get by.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It was 2006.

2007 was the year of the QB carousel, but 2006 was the year where Delhomme had a minor injury and came back to win the last game of the season and almost get us into the playoffs.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Why don't we just use Smitty as the wildcat qb?

he’s got speed to get around the edge, and he surely can hand the ball off to d-will and stewie — or toss a short screen.

by BW Smith on Nov 5, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

We already did this with him and DeAngelo this year

And from what I remember, every time there was no hand off and Smitty just ran with the ball.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 5, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

smitty could run a muck!

id love to see jstew in at qb deangelo in motion. alot can happen with any 3 of these guys from this setup.

On how Harris feels: Not well enough to practice today. - John Fox

by Steve785 on Nov 5, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

Fox cannot make the wildcat work

Because he uses it as a gimmick play… And his gimmicks always suck.

Henning has used it successfully in Carolina and Miami, because he makes it a constant part of the game plan. Miami is just a more creative variation of what he did here in 06 vs ATL. Not a trick play… he ran it over and over again until it worked. Fox throwing it in once or twice every few games won’t do anything.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 PM EST reply actions  

It's to complicated to run for these old guys....

Jeff Davidson probably doesn’t even know where to start with the wildcat. He needs time (like 10yrs) just to prepare something new in the playbook. He’s a traditional OC, he came from the browns only because he has a relationship with Fox and he is a good O-line coach. He saw Jake struggling and didn’t make a change what so ever. It would be nice to see the wildcat implemented and switch it up with Goodson.

by pantherfan95323 on Nov 5, 2009 11:26 PM EST reply actions  

Not quite.

Davidson had no relationship with Fox at all, and in two years he’s produced two of the top three rushing seasons in Panthers history as well as the second-best overall offense ever just last year. They got him because he knows what he’s doing, and he had a great pedigree. He was on Belichick’s staff for five years as they went to the playoffs each time, winning three Super Bowls. Or do you think position coaches don’t matter?

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 6, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt he has the pedigree but he sure didn’t act like he knew what was going on the first few weeks.. I hope he has gotten it together now.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 6, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Davidson was the assistant offensive line coach under Belichick for the majority of his stay. That’s like saying the ball boy has coaching credentials because he was part of a staff that won SB’s. I was off about the relationship with Fox, It was Charlie Weis who recommended Davidson to Fox. Davidson I believe has only been an OC for 2-3 yrs. He is still learning and the running game is his bread and butter but the wildcat, I believe is to much for him to handle.

by pantherfan95323 on Nov 7, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

OK...

So you’re saying they kept him on the payroll for tens of thousands of dollars because he was a “waterboy?” He was the top TE coach in NE, but don’t let the facts get in the way of your argument.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Beauty play...

I thought the TD pass to Smitty was a thing of beauty for a number of reasons. First of all, just getting him invovlved. However, I do like to think about the chip on his shoulder that he will keep with his idea that he is not an asset. 2nd it was a variation of a standard play. One that teams have obviously grown to know. That is the type of play calling I have been screaming for. Creative adjustments. That pump fake was the difference between a pick6 and 6 and mo for us, momentum. We have some wildcat plays in place, AND plenty of weapons to utilize. Keep em off balance!!! Play to our players strengths, and not to enforce our predictible will. I bet Jake would have fun with some more variation… he controls the huddle pretty well. More savy than talented, ala Pennington. A great pitcher keeps the batter offbalance… (ala Andy freekin Petite, DAMN YANKEES!) Change of pace………

J. Sullivan

by pantherpackcaniac on Nov 6, 2009 1:51 AM EST reply actions  

Here's why the Wildcat for us is a bad idea

unless we get a more creative OC. When we run the Wildcat, it’s straight ahead jet blast, call it the Wild Fox, straight ahead smash mouth, but in a “Wild” formation, for Fox at least. We ran it with Smith once, but there was no misdirection, he just ran straight for the edge and was contained. There is no trickery with the Wildcat when we run it, it is just straight ahead power running, Fox’s style, but ineffective with a formation designed to tap you in the back, make you spin around, then smash you in the mouth. If we run it, we need to fake, motion, something to make them unsure that it’s going straight up the middle. And I don’t think we are capable of that.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 6, 2009 6:27 AM EST reply actions  

Towards the beginning of the year, I’m not sure people were believing Davidson even knew how to call a run play but he came around. Lets hope he doesn’t get the urge to go back and, meanwhile, maybe he and Fox will surprise us with something else.

And not a “Oh my God, Delhomme just threw his 50th pass attempt this game” kind of surprise………

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 6, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with Flowing Willow

He explains our style of coaching to a tee!

by pantherfan95323 on Nov 7, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t think the wildcat is an option for us. Sorry!

by tarheelfan on Nov 6, 2009 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

I'm not really a proponent of it...

But if Jake is more effective when e throws less than 20 times per game, then who’s to say he wouldn’t be more effective on the sideline? JK, but not really kinda.

by ERL on Nov 6, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

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