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Around SBN: Todd Haley Is The Steelers Next Offensive Coordinator

Fire fox, cut jake, draft edwards, blah blah blah...bring on the aints.

There's a lot of talk about what we should do.  I've offered my opinion as well.  Regardless of how Jake performs, we need to bring in a young guy.  If we finish 10-6 or 9-7 and Jake plays well, it will be hard to argue that Fox should go as we have back to back winning seasons for the first time.  Edwards will be drafted by the Panthers if he has the best value for the pick whenever we get that far down the Panthers draft board.  With all that said, the rest of the team is looking to beat the Saints, and I say we're gonna get it done.

Star-divide

We just beat the defending NFC Champions by doing exactly what the CSR said we needed to do.  We're going to need a little more from Jake to beat the Saints, but not 44 pass attempts.  However, we beat the Cards who were 4-2 division leaders.  They were giving up 67.5 rushing yards per game and 3 YPC.  We destroyed them by attacking their strength.  We intercepted Kurt Warner 5 times.  Earlier this year, he was 24 of 26 in a game.  They just destroyed the Giants the week before.  Drew Brees has six turnovers in the last two games, and the Saints have 8.  They had to make a comeback against a team without a D-Will, Beef Stew, Peppers, Beason or Smitty when they played Miami.  The way our defense has played the last month, they won't beat us if we go up 21 early.  They barely beat the Falcons.  They're not as good as their record shows, and their descent is about to begin.  Peppers had his best game since the Pro Bowl, and will play better against the Saints.  He is playing as well as anyone in the league right now on defense, except maybe the monster - Thomas Davis.  We shut down Warner, Wells, Fitz, Boldin, Adrian Wilson, Cromartie, etc.  The Cards had more weapons on both sides of the ball.  The games we lost were given away.  We weren't beat, we gave them the game.  I think we're done doing that.  I say fire Fox, but not if we win the division.  On Monday, we'll be 4-4, and the Saints will be 7-1.  They know they aren't playing well, and a loss can send them into a midseason slump.  We could win the division at 12-4 or 11-5, or be a wildcard at 10-6.  Maybe I'm just excited cuz I have the day off from work, but, seriously, who's with me?  Bring on the Saints.  If I'm wrong, we'll see on the field.  Until then, let's get ready to rumble.

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I love posts like this

It shows me we as a fanbase still have Panther Pride!!! : )

by Flowing Willow on Nov 4, 2009 6:31 AM EST reply actions  

And still we get no respect...

We handily beat the Cards, going to their house as a 10-point underdog!

So how are we regarded this weekend?

They make us a 14 (FOURTEEN!) point underdog to the Saints. That’s the most lop-sided line of any NFL game this weekend.

A lot of that has to do with the Saints averaging 38 points at home, but c’mon!

The Times-Picayune is hinting at an undefeated season:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2009/11/unbeaten_new_orleans_saints_st.html

But if we show the same passion for the game that was evident in Arizona, they could be trapped.

by bigdavis on Nov 4, 2009 8:38 AM EST reply actions  

from cnnsi.com hot clicks

The greatest show in sports right now is the New Orleans Saints. And even Saints players are referring to what they do as a “show.” At 7-0 after a win against the Falcons last night, the talk of an undefeated season will pick up in full force now. Judging by New Orleans’ schedule, the biggest obstacle to a perfect season might be the team that went undefeated two seasons ago, as the Saints play host to the Patriots on Nov. 30. Two other tough games on New Orleans’ schedule are at Atlanta on Dec. 13 and Dallas at home on Dec. 19. Besides that, it’s nothing but bad teams.

READ THAT LAST SENTENCE AGAIN.

by usana_gaines on Nov 4, 2009 8:47 AM EST reply actions  

Writing on the wall

Brees lost to us last year at the end of the year, trying to get his Dan Marino passing yards record, and against one of the more porous defenses in team history.

I hope the defense is reading this right now.

by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually

He went for the Hail Mary and the win instead of dumping it underneath, which almost surely would have gotten him the record. That shows what a high character guy Brees is.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 4, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

on the final drive

brees drove the saints right down the field, and every yard was gained through the air. they got good field position, so the drive ended when they got to the end zone. that was their last possession. if they got the ball 25 yards further away, he would’ve broken the record because we were unable to stop him. We outscored them 33-31. This week, it will be 27-17 for our 2nd win in a row against a division leader.

by usana_gaines on Nov 4, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

We won though we didn't have too much to play for

We were in the playoffs either way

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 4, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

The same thing they said after their MNF win.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats better than my initial thought...career ending

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 4, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

A high ankle sprain is gonna be more than two weeks.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not good then

Because while Fiametta is a rookie, he also hasn’t impressed me much either.

by SmithnCompany on Nov 4, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He could certainly be out for a bit too.

He didn’t practice today, anyway. And he certainly shouldn’t have been expected to look great right away. FB is a very difficult position to pick up quickly as a young player.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

They are also calling this team 'their greatest team ever'

So we have a chance to beat their best all-time team!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 4, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

On Armanti Edwards...

I’m not so sure that this guy is going to be picked up by the Panthers, but I do think he will be looked at at picked up by SOME NFL team, possibly late in the draft or in the free agency immediately following the draft and here’s why:

Although Edwards is a winner, has some shining accomplishments such as the Mich. win and winning the Walter Payton award, and is a freak athlete, I am not sure how he translates his skills to the NFL. At App State, He is more of a RB/WR than a Quarterback in that he runs more than throws and has a run first mindset. I don’t think that NFL teams looking for their next QB think this is the guy b/c #1 he plays in the FCS and #2 he hasn’t been a phenomenal passer. Although he may not be a QB in the NFL, he may have the skills for WR or RB, most likely WR though. But, since he hasn’t played these positions, I would think NFL teams wouldn’t want to spend too much to find out if he can translate to one of these positions. It is imp. to note that Edwards is NOT Pat White and NOT Mike Vick in that he is not a great passer, although he is as good of an athlete as these two. With that said, this guy is too much of freak athlete for some team not to take a chance on, but I doubt that teams are thinking of him as their next QB, especially with the long list of QBs that will be in the 2010 draft…

by jkp1516 on Nov 4, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions  

While I agree noone is going to draft him and label him their definate QB of the future...

Some of your other statements are just flat out wrong. You can doubt the translation of his game all day, but you cannot doubt his game. Yes I am bias as an App State alum and fan… but the numbers speak for themselves.

At App State, He is more of a RB/WR than a Quarterback in that he runs more than throws and has a run first mindset.

False. Most of his runs are designed draw plays. When he scrambles, he nearly always moves laterally first looking to throw, but yes, if noone is clearly open or breaking free he is going to take off. As far as him running more than passing, simply check the attempts for each in the links below.

I don’t think that NFL teams looking for their next QB think this is the guy b/c #1 he plays in the FCS and #2 he hasn’t been a phenomenal passer.

FCS passers are drafted to be QBs of the future, just look at McNair and Flacco. You can doubt the offense he plays in, but to say an FCS passer can’t be drafted as a starter is wrong. As far as his abilities as a passer… check his completion percentages, QB Ratings, and low INT totals throughout his career for the reasons why that is wrong. If you’re talking mechanics, watch the videos. Preach about substandard competition if you wish, but then you have to acknowledge he is putting up gaudy passing totals with “substandard receivers”

he may have the skills for WR or RB, most likely WR though. But, since he hasn’t played these positions, I would think NFL teams wouldn’t want to spend too much to find out if he can translate to one of these positions

He played WR and QB in high school. His game has the basics that will translate if needed… he doesn’t fumble, he has elite speed and elusiveness, and being a past QB will certainly help his route running.

It is imp. to note that Edwards is NOT Pat White and NOT Mike Vick in that he is not a great passer

Pat White hasn’t proven a single thing on the NFL level yet. To date, Armanti is a better QB than Pat White if you judge success based on leading your team to championships and stockpiking excellence awards. He is even a better QB statistically, having a higher Completion %, more yards, more TD passes, less INTs… need I go on? He is DEFINITELY a better passer than Vick. Unlike Vick, he can actually put touch on his passes and hit his receivers while scrambling.

All videos and statistics are in the comments section of these two CSR entries:

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2009/10/28/1104810/jake-delhomme-named-starter#comments
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2009/11/2/1111265/armanti-edwards-update

I’m not trying to be combative, but his play deserves proper recognition. I just want people to see the facts.

by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Leading your team to a I-AA Championship is about as notable and difficult as leading your team to a Sun Belt Conference championship, if not less difficult. He’s beating up on crappy players. Tarvaris Jackson did the same thing once upon a time. How’s he doing?

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright, so even if he is beating up on crappy competition

Which I don’t deny above, I’m just arguing the facts of the numbers and the game film. Based on the logic of him being the golden needle in a haystack here, he still is relying on crappy linemen to protect him, crappy wide receivers to catch the ball, and crappy play calling from sub par coaches.

Regardless of these factors, he has elevated his game to elite standards, which will keep us enamored and wondering what is going to happen on draft day. Some people are just winners. He is a winner. He can help us somewhere on the football field, and I think it is entirely possible that is at QB, even if we don’t expect it to be. I don’t want to see the Panthers miss out.

by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Tarvaris Jackson was a winner too.

You continue to ignore him and Josh Johnson and Tyler Thigpen. Hell, Jake Delhomme’s been a winner over years at the highest level, and people still won’t give him his due.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

That is overrated for college QB's

However, the attitude of a winner is most certainly not. Here’s a checklist I came up with for a successful NFL skillset.

Arm Strength: Not just chucking it 80 yards downfield, I’m talking about completing passes with zip 15-20 yards down the field. Jay Cutler is a prime example, or Elway for the old timers. Can you take off the rose tinted glasses and evaluate this for Edwards?

Accuracy: From what I’ve heard, not seen, Edwards has accuracy. Most of what I’ve heard is from you though. For our offense Edwards will need accuracy for mid to deep range passes, we don’t really utilize short passing, and it’s not hard to be accurate on those anyways.

Height: It does help to see over the O-line. ; )

Mobility: I’m not talking about Vince Young or Mike Vick mobility, I’m talking about a sixth sense for when the rush is coming, and the ability to elude it, WHILE KEEPING YOUR EYES DOWNFIELD. Roethlisberger is a perfect example. He doesn’t just have wheels, he keeps his eyes downfield, always looking for a strike. Edwards is fast, but in the NFL everyone is fast.

Pro Style Offense: This one is very important, if they don’t play in a pro style offense in college, there is no way to know if they can make NFL throws and reads.

Leadership: The ability to rally the team around you when things get tough like Delhomme and Brady can, but Romo can’t, that is invaluable.

And here is Taters’ grades for Edwards

Arm Strength- (B-) Armanti does not throw a laser, at least I have not seen him do so, but his passes never float on him. The ball gets their in expected time when he throws with feet planted. On the run, as you would expect there is a bit more arc, and a little more power gets taken off the ball, however his throws on the run are rarely off target. See the video below at the 0:29, 0:56, 1:09 marks for an example of his "quick strike" throwing power and accuracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prlxc1qaaLY

Accuracy- (A-) This is definately Armanti’s strong point. He is not prone to over or under throwing. He is able to hit his receivers in stride. Occasionally however, he will hit his moving target lower than you want, forcing the receiver to go down and get the ball, taking away any YAC. His accuracy on the run is ideal considering his mobility. See above video. Also see video at 3:22, where he throws on the run with enough touch to get it over a Michigan linebacker but just low enough for CoCo Hillary (a very small target) to pull it down and run with it.

Height- (D+) Armanti does not possess the prototypical QB build. However, the O-Line at App is fairly tall and he has not had problems throwing for them.

Mobility- (A-) Again, this is a strong point. Besides the ability to escape based on his speed alone, he is very good at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield. He has only been sacked 6 times so far this season. He shows good decision making, if he decides to run he isn’t going to pull up and try to pass last second. Early in his career, he relied to much on his legs, now he has done less running and more scrambling while trying to find his receivers. at 1:09 in the above video he stays in the pocket, feels the rush coming from both sides, and delivers a strike just as it gets there for a TD.

Pro Style Offense- (C-) In his first 3 seasons, the App playbook went to a spread offense to exploit the speed of Armanti and the team as a whole. This season, the spread is still dominant, but there are far less designed runs for Armanti. Coach Moore has put the ball in his hands more as a passer. He still comes from the spread. Not ideal for the pros. He will have a learning curve.

Leadership- (A+) Armanti does not have discipline problems. App is not the same team when he is not on the field. He has played hurt many times, in fact, he is basically playing hurt all the time because he takes some punishment from his running. He is the leader of his college team without quiestion, and the most recognized name in FCS football. The coach of Georgia Southern, whom we just trounced 52-16 had this to say about Armanti: "Armanti Edwards is the best player on the FCS level. Him and Tebow are probably the two best players in all of college football. We got kicked down, and we weren’t good enough to recover." “That was probably the biggest beatdown that I’ve ever really had.”

Based on one fans view, Edwards can be a success.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 5, 2009 7:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Beyond height, he's rail-thin.

Will he be able to stand up and take hits in the pocket from guys who out weigh him by 100+?

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your attitude.

We certainly can win. Whether we will or not is certainly up for debate, but we’ve got the talent and the will to do it.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

Obviously talent alone will not win you the majority of games

But am i alone in thinking that the Panther’s roster as a whole might be a tad more talented than the Saints? Am I being delusional?

by SmithnCompany on Nov 4, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I love it.....

when I see other teams talking so much trash about what they are going to do to my Saints……see any of the three NY teams on CSC and what they had to say. Delhomeless is going to give our Def 14 more points, and the 200 yards rushing you guys put up wont account for anywhere near the 42 points we are going to put up on your porous defense…..yes porous….Every team we played this year has had great Defenses….philly’s D got 48 put on em, buffalo’s D got 27 put on em, NYJ and NYG D etc etc….We’ll see how your #1 pass offense looks against Drew Breesy….keep the trash talk going, every time a team has talked this much trash about beating us we put 45+ on them….I love it

by Lil_joe692 on Nov 4, 2009 3:38 PM EST reply actions  

Man, i sure hope our #1 pass offense

… shows up sometime this decade.

But instead, I guess I’ll just have to watch our #1 pass defense play instead.

Look, credit us where it is due. The matchups to watch are our #1 pass defense against your #1 pass offense, and our awesome rush offense against your highly rated rush defense.

I want to make a joke about how our offensive line is going to open the floodgates for our running game, but i’ll refrain.

by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually tater...

Their pass offense is #6.. not #1.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 4, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Your Saints are having a good year, no doubt...

But what happened to Reggie Bush’s ‘breakout season’… 3rd RB now isn’t he?

I much prefer our RB, you know… DeAngelo Williams… the same RB you’ll see put up over 125 on your shadow of a run defense and the guy we took 25 picks after Reggie.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 4, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Trash?

What trash? I’ve seen nothing but respect for the Saints come from the people on this blog, pointing out only their bona-fide weaknesses. I don’t know if you are thinking the Saints are invincible or have no weaknesses, but every team has a weakness.

Some people here are thinking the Saints come out on top and a lot of us have hope that the Panthers can do the same but every one agrees it’s going to be a close game.

So while I’ve not read a single comment attempting to put dirt on the Saints name, you choose to come bash us for “trash talk”? We didn’t make the stats, we’re just pointing them out. So just remember 2006, when only two teams beat the Saints within the first nine weeks. One you won’t play this season, the other is coming to your home this Sunday. While these are two entirely different teams now, we will see if history can repeat itself.

Good luck Lil Joe, don’t know about you but we will be rooting for a respectable game.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 4, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

little joe

seriously, little joe’s comments need no reply. he was looking for a chance to talk trash, and he got one. is he new to blogging, or did he just not have anything to say the last few years?

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2009 7:26 AM EST up reply actions  

from what ive seen

pound the saints, and they will crumble. we are a tough football team this is going to be a fun game to watch.

by carolinabrave89 on Nov 4, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

Is there something about edwards

that i missed on youtube? what can we do with our 2nd round pick? not with another late pick. as much as i want a qb of the future, isn’t next year the best time to pick up a quality qb?

by Shockers on Nov 4, 2009 11:02 PM EST reply actions  

sorry that didn't make any sense

i meant shouldn’t we use our 2nd round pick to grab a QB?

by Shockers on Nov 4, 2009 11:04 PM EST reply actions  

I would say yes but what I think some people are thinking is that we can grab just as much a quality QB in a latter round and fill another position that the draft may not be so deep with, first.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 4, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

go with QB 3rd round

get another threatening WR in 2nd round because of depth of QB in upcoming draft

the only reason we wouldn’t do that is if moore or jarrett show up during the remainder of the season… if not, someone needs to help take constant double coverage off of steve smith

by vitzeng on Nov 5, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d hate to know what Smith was capable of if there were to actually be another capable receiver on the team. No, actually, in fact, I’d love to know what Smith was capable of in that position. Moose has been around so long, if he never catches another ball, he has got my respect, but he’s no longer a threat. I guess we’d have to go all the way back to Keyshawn Johnson & his 800 yards to find another capable receiver.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 5, 2009 3:08 AM EST up reply actions  

moose

didn’t moose put up over 900 yards last year? moose is a better #2 than most #2’s in the NFL. If you can name someone better (and there are some obviously better), it will be a short list. You have to consider, though, that in our last two wins, Jake threw the ball 31 times total. SMitty can’t do anything with that. Imagine Jerry Rice in a game where Montana’s second half stats were … 5 incompletions.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2009 7:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, imagine Jerry Rice in a game where Montana was hurt.

Guy probably wouldn’t look very good with Elvis Grbac throwing him the ball. But I won’t say your statement about Muhammad right now is true at all. Let’s look at the list:
CHI-Johnny Knox (actually a #3)
STL-Keenan Burton
CIN-Andre Caldwell
DAL-Miles Austin
NYJ-Jerricho Cotchery
MIN-Bernard Berrian, Percy Harvin
NYG-Mario Manningham (#3)
JAX-Mike Sims-Walker
PIT-Hines Ward/Santonio Homes (depending on which you deem as #1)
IND-Austin Collie
ARI-Steve Breaston, Anquan Boldin
MIA-Davonne Bess
GB-Donald Driver
SEA-Nate Burleson/TJ Houshmandzadeh (depending on who’s #1)
NE-Wes Welker

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not denying him a good receiver (and great in his time) but this year he isn’t the type of guy that’s going to make a defense cover Smith any less. Unless he finds the fountain of youth, I’m not sure he’s going to regain anything that he has lost, either.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

i disagree

i see where you guys are coming from, but i think it’s the play calling. moose went for over 900 yards last year, is a great blocker, runs good routes and has good hands. he led the team in receiving in the buffalo game. but how many passes do you expect him to catch when we throw the ball 16 times a game? as for MP’s list, i think you’re wrong about the following guys being better than Moose: Knox, Burton, Caldwell, Manningham, Breaston, Bess and Burleson. If Mose was on any of those teams, he’s be playing much better. Look at their QBs compared to ours and how often they throw. Of course some of those guys are better. Miles Austin (IMO) is the #1, and Moose is better than Williams.

by usana_gaines on Nov 8, 2009 4:57 AM EST up reply actions  

QB

We need to move up and take the best available QB, somewhere in the mid to late first round. Even picking one pick too late can be costly…(Manning, Leaf). We don’t need a nice upgrade to Jake, we need a true franchise QB. Two years ago, Fox and frenz were looking to move up to get Ryan, but knew they couldn’t get to #3. So they are willing to get the guy who is worth it…whoever they decide. So I say we get a QB in the 1st rd (not sure what we have to do to get a 1st rd pick around here), and our next pick after that should be somewhere on defense, or a WR, based on best available talent.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2009 7:31 AM EST up reply actions  

We honestly don't have to move up

Pick up Campbell in FA, that strikes me as more of a Furney move than drafting a QB high. Then in the later rounds someone like Hiller, Pike, LeFevour, Smith, Snead, Robinson, etc. That leaves us free to focus on WR and depth at SLB, OT, and DE.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 5, 2009 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve always preferred picking up a QB out of free agency. You normally have to draft QBs high, and I hate the idea of wasting a pick on a QB that busts. I say, find a QB that’s been developed elsewhere, make sure hes gonna fit your scheme, and plug him in. Of course you can afford do that when your running game is as strong as ours. Hell, we don’t need John Elway. We just need someone who can protect the ball, and turn around and feed it to Williams and Stewart. I mean, we don’t really have the staff to develop a QB, so we’ll have to take a very skilled QB out of the draft, which means risking a high pick on a position that seems to bust more often than not. At least if we want to win right away.

by The Kackalack Kid on Nov 6, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with Flowing Willow on this one usana

We don’t need to move up to get the future QB. The threat of a rookie pay scale in 2011 will force alot of players out early. This is my personal board for the QBs coming out (potentially) in 2010, and where I think they’ll go.

1. Jimmy Clausen- Notre Dame: Top 5
2. Jake Locker- Washington: Top 10
3. Sam Bradford- Oklahoma: Top 10-15
4. Jevan Snead- Ole Miss: 1st round
5. Colt McCoy- Texas: 2nd round
6. Tim Tebow- Florida: 1st round to Jacksonville or Washington, if not 2nd round.
7. Zac Robinson- Oklahoma State: 2nd round
8. Max Hall- BYU: 2nd to 3rd round
9. Tony Pike- Cincinnati: 2nd-3rd round
10. Tim Hiller- Western Michigan: 3rd-4th round
11. Pat Devlin- Delaware: 5th-6th round
12. Armanti Edwards- Appalacian State: 6th round-undrafted
13. Dan LeFevour- Central Michigan: 7th round-undrafted
14. Chris Turner- Maryland: undrafted
15. Joe Cox- Georgia: undrafted

This is just my personal list, of course… but I’d be thrilled with Zac Robinson, Tony Pike or Max Hall they’re all great QBs who will be available in the 2nd round solely because of the strength at the top.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions  

He has a redshirt year.

You only need three years out of HS (see McClover, Stanley.)

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

campbell vs these guys

If we could get Campbell, I think that would be a good move. I don’t care for a lot of the guys on your list, and I would take Campbell over most of them. He would cost less and could start right away. If we get any of these rookies, except maybe the top two or three, then they will be back-ups to jake next year. Campbell could beat him out in camp, and it is likely that the redskins draft a qb in the first round.

i would rather bring in a veteran receiver than draft one high unless there is a can’t-miss value when we pick, but those are rare…calvin johnson, crabtree, not too many others.

i think we may still be looking to draft a pass rusher with the first pick if pep is gone. but i think he’ll sign a long-term deal before the playoffs. i also think we’ll make the playoffs as a 9-7 wildcard, starting with a win over the saints this weekend.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Ideally, I’d like to see us pick up Campbell and draft a QB rounds 4-6 in case Campbell can’t do it.

Campell + Hiller or Devlin really sures up the position alot.

That is assuming another team isn’t in love with Campbell and drives his prive up.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

What exactly about Campbell's ability and career makes you think he could start right away?

Everything about his skills says mediocre.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Rusty Smith could also be an option depending on his shoulder.

And Armanti Edwards doesn’t get drafted before LeFevour. No way.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

While I agree LeFervour is the better QB I think you’re going to see alot of teams looking for a wilcat QB to generate some buzz. See Oakland, Cleveland as examples.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

True,

but Pat White would have been a late round pick if Miami didn’t see his potential down the road.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

White was also an exceptional player in a DI-A BCS conference.

They also view him as a pure QB, which he partially validated by his combine performance. Edwards certainly can’t use that kind of performance yet.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Case Keenum?

Even in Houston’s 1 loss this season he had 5 TDs. I know he’s a Junior, but I think some Jr’s will be coming out.

by DrTarheel on Nov 5, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

This team is NOT going to get a QB early.

You have to pay them ridiculous amounts of money to sit on the bench. Whta’s the point?

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

What's your definition of 'early' Procton?

The money for a 2nd or 3rd round QB drops off significantly.

Or are you talking directly about the 1st round?

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Top 50.

And beyond the money issue, QBs simply can’t contribute in as many ways as other positions if they’re not starting. How many backup QBs are on kick coverage teams or FG blocking units?

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Valid point

But free agent QBs who can lead you to the Superbowl are few and far between. With the exception of Tom Brady all Superbowl winning QBs the last several years share one thing in common, they were early draft picks.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

How far does your memory go back, man?

In the eight Super Bowls contested this decade, half of them have been won by guys drafted in the 6th or later (Brady-3, Brad Johnson (9th)-1.) Go back another two years, and the ratio stays the same, 50-50. Dilfer was a 1st-rounder (although he hardly was playing at a 1st-round level), but Kurt Warner wasn’t even drafted.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Valid

But with the cases of Dilfer and Johnson they had two of the best defenses in the NFL and with Warner the best offense.

I think most would agree that Brady and Warner are the exceptions, not the rule.

Personally, I’d like to see us draft a true franchise QB because I doubt lightning will strike twice and we’ll find another Delhomme available.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

the draft

we were willing to move up to the early 1st to get Matt Ryan, but we couldn’t get to #3. So we are willing to draft a QB high, but the staff has to really like him. Since Fox has been there, I think Ryan is the only guy he felt that way about, and there is no guarantee he thinks anyone in this draft is going to be as good as Matt Ryan. I think we take a QB in the 3rd.

by usana_gaines on Nov 8, 2009 5:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Early in the second round isn't bad

10 mil or so.

Now what do you think the QB’s were doing on the bench, painting their fingernails? They are learning the position, not nearly as effective as throwing them into the fire right away, but still. Here’s the biggest reason we should draft a QB, early if Campbell isn’t available, we have so much talent at all the other immediate contribution positions that we aren’t making the team better by drafting there. Which brings me to point B, our team is talented enough that we don’t need those guys to step in and contribute right away, our team is talented enough that the guys we bring in at QB and WR, our biggest needs, can feed off the talent and excel.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 6, 2009 6:02 AM EST up reply actions  

There is no such thing as a threatening WR in the second round.

Rookie wideouts just don’t produce. Sure, there are your Boldins and Colstons every now and then, but it takes forever for the vast majority of them to develop, even the greats.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

As far as what I'm advocating for Edwards

And seems most of us too… We should draft more of a blue chip QB earlier on in the draft. Armanti would certainly be a project, but he has potential to help us at other positions as well.

by Tater596 on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't they try that with Eric Crouch?

Athletic ability doesn’t mean you have the ability to perform at a position you’ve never played a down at.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

No matter what

They won’t know until they draft him. His risk/reward factor is huge in that he would not cost us much, and he could potentially really help us. I don’t know any other way to put it. I’ve given all the stats and videos I possibly can.

by Tater596 on Nov 5, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

If we grab Edwards

we need an OC who knows how to use him. Edwards would be a great asset in the Wildcat, but not the “conventional” wildcat we use. As for MP’s comments, WR’s typically don’t produce straight away, but neither do QB’s, and those are our two biggest needs. Look at what St. Louis has gotten into by ignoring the QB and WR position the past two years, eventually you are going to have to draft someone.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 6, 2009 5:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Have we not tried?

In the Fox/Hurney regime, we’ve had the colossal failures of Dwayne Jarrett and Walter Young, the injury issues of Ryne Robinson, and the consistent mediocrity out of Drew Carter and Keary Colbert. At QB, we got a grand total of one season’s worth of a roster spot out of Randy Fasani and Stefen LeFors. It’s not that they haven’t tried, it’s that they haven’t done well at two of the tougher positions to evaluate. Compare their production to what we got out of some of the FAs we picked up at those positions: Ricky Proehl and DJ Hackett outperformed all of those picks, and Rodney Peete and Delhomme were both able to stick around and earn some starts.

Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt

by MichaelProcton on Nov 6, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll give you Colbert and Jarrett… but saying Walter Young (7th round) was a collosal failure is seriously reaching Procton.

You can find any team in the NFL… any, and take their draft picks rounds 5 though 7 and say they were failures, the vast majority of the guys stand almost no chance to make the team as it is.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Nov 6, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

All I'm saying here MP

is that just because you have failed in the past doesn’t mean you will fail every time you draft at that position. WR is tough to evaluate, QB I’m not so sure, but with QB’s there are so many other variables to add into account, blocking, the threat of a running game, the playcalling, who is catching, or dropping, your passes, etc. The point is, every time you fail at something, you learn something you can carry over to the next time you try it. FA is all well and good, but when you try to build solely through free agency, you end up like the Redskins.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 7, 2009 5:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn’t Tampa get in its predicament via Gruden patching holes with free agency ?

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 7, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

essentially yes

it provided short term success, but once they fired gruden, they had nothing to work with… all this = last team to not have any wins

also, they didn’t bring back key veterans like derrick brooks…but that was on the front office too

by vitzeng on Nov 7, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Tater…. I am an Edwards fan. I love his speed, and his moxie..

by tarheelfan on Nov 6, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions  

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