Would a 3 RB Offense work for the panthers???
Panthers should try a 3 RB type offense. Watching the saints tonight and I like the 3 RB system. We have two of the leagues best RB combo and I believe Mike Goodson would be a good speedy back for screens or short yardage surprise attacks here and there. For some reason I like Goodson, he has speed, good hands, and he did awesome in the preseason but now is limited to special teams. Plus the league is catching on to the "Smith short slant inside" pass Jake always throws to get short yardage. With Moose banged up and Rosario hurting I think Jarrett and Moore should get more looks and the other TE Gary Barnidge, who is an identical specimen to Rosario should get more playing time. Let him run over folks at 6'5" he shouldn't have a problem. We got division games next two weeks and changing it up should help us. Hopefully Jake finally got the monkey off his back after the AZ win. I also noticed Jakes throws were right on the money this past week, or the majority of them, maybe it was really just his mechanics......
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I like Goodson, but we need be sure his case of fumblitis is cured before we give him any substantial part in the offense, especially if it’s going to be taking away from Williams and Stewart. As I said, I like him but turnovers have been one of our biggest battles thus far.
by D-Ranged1 on Nov 3, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
...maybe not such a good idea right now
he seems quite talented, but there’s no room for error right now as the panthers are fighting for wild card…
his fumbling could cost a game and putting him in just seems unnecessary for an offense that has so many other tools to maximize first (i.e. Jarret, Moore)
by vitzeng on Nov 3, 2009 1:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why mess with what's working?
Since the bye, we’ve averaged 184.75 rushing yards a game, compared to 101 before the bye. Goodson has shown a penchant to fumble (4 fumbles in 44 carries as a professional, including more than one against preseason scrubs who’ll never sniff a roster), and his runs of 4, -3, 4, and -2 yards in the regular season don’t exactly suggest he’s some kind of dynamic weapon who would be a threat every time he touched the ball. Williams and Stewart are doing a fantastic job, and I see no reason whatsoever to mess with their rhythm. It’s hard enough to keep two guys happy and into the game. To try and mess up that well-established dynamic at this point seems pretty pointless to me.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 1:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Goodson will be a nice talent
But his fumbles need to be addressed. He is an electric back, he would fit well with our O-line with his ability to cut back. Goodson does have a tendency to reverse course in the backfield and go the other way, that made him look brilliant in the preseason, but starters will sniff him out and cut him down if he tries that in a real game. I’d like him to be incorporated into the offense somehow, screens, swings, routes in the slot, he has ability as a WR, use him like Welker.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 3, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, I'd call Goodson "Robatussin"
the way he coughs it up. Welker doesn’t do that. Welker excels on slants, and I’m be afraid of using Goodson there, until he cures the fumblitis. But, harking back to the video we all saw on him from college (what was it? “Thunderstruck?”), I agree he’s got the talent to take it all the way, if he ever gets it in space.
by bigdavis on Nov 3, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I'm sold on using him as a wideout.
He only averaged about 6 YPC in the preseason, and he didn’t exactly look natural running routes.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know 6 YPC is good right?
He is raw, but he has skills, and hands, I think it was the Dolphins game he had a pretty toe-tapping catch out of bounds. I just want to see him used more as a WR, he has a score every time he touches the ball threat that no one else in the WR corps has, except Smith of course.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 4, 2009 6:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Well, 6 YPC (yards per catch, not carry) is okay, but not great. Most good WRs average closer to double-digits. Even so, I don’t think Goodson has been used enough in the passing game for his 6 YPC stat to be very meaningful. I do agree he’s more of a scoring threat with big play ability than most everyone else on the roster. But to use him only at KR is a mistake, in my opinion.
The Panther coaching staff is just too risk-averse to take the good with the bad by playing him and getting him experience. Instead, they want to see him perform consistently in practice (presumably), but I don’t know how much they have him practice in the WR sets. He probably gets reps at RB and has to split time by working with the special teams. So, I would think that doesn’t leave much room for him to put in time as a WR for the coaches to see progress in that regard.
Lastly, my primary reason for playing Goodson is that the team has more to gain than they might lose at this point in the season. And, if they’re willing to take some risks on defense with the heavy playing time of Munnerlyn and maybe Sherrod Martin, I’d like to see them take that same level of risk on trying to improve the options on offense, particularly in the passing game…but also by using Goodson in a few misdirection and trick plays if we ever need to dip into that kind of stuff to try and win a game or change momentum. I think it would be much harder for teams to prepare for us if he could show the same “flashes” in an actual game rather than just training camp and the preseason. And I think he could be worked into the lineup without sacrificing much in terms of Williams and Stewart’s carries.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 4, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Thought he meant yards per carry.
I agree, work him into the passing game and Wildcat. We have enough weapons on offense to make the Wildcat work, just no creativity.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 4, 2009 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To suggest that they haven't put him at wideout in practice is speculation at best.
They talked up how much potential he had there for months, and for them to have given up on it without seeing it seems a little absurd. Again, as to Munnerlyn and Martin, they’ve played them because they had to. There are simply no better or more experienced options in our secondary as there clearly are at RB.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, Procton...
…just about everything discussed here as fans of the Panthers is “speculation at best.” And, since I haven’t been to a Panthers practice, that’s pretty much what I have to do.
I don’t think it’s all that “absurd” to imagine a guy who has to practice with the RBs in the offense and split time with the special teams on fielding kickoffs to see limited practice time as a WR. But YMMV…as it so often does. I’m sure you’ll either Google a stat about his reps in practice or dig up an article that establishes something as a more definitive “fact.” And, honestly, that’s what I count on you to do. Because that’s what makes you who you are. :-)
As for Munnerlyn and Martin and their playing time, we started out with Gamble and Marshall as the starting CBs. But Munnerlyn has seen more time at CB than I think anyone expected. Both Gamble and Marshall represent “more experienced options” in the secondary. And there were even more guys ahead of Sherrod at CB, not to mention Godfrey at FS. So I don’t buy your counterpoint. But as always, you’re entitled to your opinion. And I’ll stick by mine. ;-)
My two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 4, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And Gamble and Marshall are still starting.
But, as I’ve stated before, there are probably going to be more snaps for a #4 or even #5 corner than there are for a #3 back.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly...
…but even so, I don’t think anyone expected Munnerlyn to be that #4 or #5 corner. In fact, most people were surprised he made the roster…and then surprised he to see him on the field as anything more than a special teams contributor. It’s very unusual to see Fox and company give the nod to a rookie who came in as a 7th round draft pick (which many thought was a reach in the first place).
by NSpicer on Nov 5, 2009 7:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was pumped to get him
Walterfootball had him projected as a third rounder, the guys a bit of a jerk but he knows his football. Getting drafted in the seventh is exactly what Captain needed to motivate him.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 5, 2009 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yards per catch.
That’s awful.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think the Panthers are waiting for Goodson to develop better skills following blocks and for him to cut down on his fumbles before they give him any serious time in the offense.
by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 3, 2009 2:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Except nowhere near as good?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goodson was a surprise pickup, yes.
But ultimately, whose carries does anyone suggest he takes?
The teams running a true 3 back system in the NFL all have one thing in common, none of their backs have the talent to be a true #1 back in their own right.
DeAngelo Williams is a true #1 back in his own right, and Jonathan Stewart is right on the cusp and would be starting for over 3/4 of the league. When you have that much talent at the position I don’t see any need to add Goodson to the mix.
I see Goodson’s true value as a KR, 5th reciever and possible wildcat RB where he can use his speed to get to the edge.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 3, 2009 8:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and he needs time to develop
It may be that one day he becomes a guy who can carry a load, or be a good utility back, but right now he is raw and has fumble problems.
He is a good project. I see potential. He certainly has explosive speed and shiftiness.
by Tater596 on Nov 3, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“The teams running a true 3 back system in the NFL all have one thing in common, none of their backs have the talent to be a true #1 back in their own right.”
Great point. I think Goodson will be a capable starter in 2 or 3 years but will take a while to understand how to “harness” his abilities, however will be an asset in other areas as he’s already showing.
by D-Ranged1 on Nov 3, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aaahhhh, the wildcat!
“I see Goodson’s true value as a KR, 5th reciever and possible wildcat RB where he can use his speed to get to the edge.” – I never thought of that! Some Wildcat plays…..
by pantherfan95323 on Nov 4, 2009 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the best play for Goodson...
…would be a reverse between him and Steve Smith. You want to talk about speed to the corner? Either one of those guys could take it the distance if they catch the defense off-guard. And if you trotted that out against a team that hadn’t seen it before in a game you REALLY need to win (say, the New Orleans game?), it could help your team get out to an early advantage…which helps your defense…and takes the pressure off your QB…and just generally has the potential to improve a lot of things from a confidence and momentum perspective.
by NSpicer on Nov 4, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
We have too many offensive weapons to run a boring, vanilla wildcat when we do decide to run it. Lets see some reverses, double reverses, fakes… the list goes on.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 4, 2009 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Annexation of Puerto Rico.
Enough said.
by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA
That was money Tater…well played sir, well played.
by boywonderncsu on Nov 4, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We've tried them...
And they’ve been largely ineffective. Particularly when they’ve compared to our traditional sets with a TE and an FB or those with two TEs.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We haven't run many trick plays this season
We put Smith in the Wildcat once, had him run, no motion, fakes, anything, just had him try to get to the corner. DeAngelo has been put in the Wildcat, but he just runs the power play for three yards. We run trick plays, but they are vanilla to the point they might as well be our base offense. Playaction, motion, none of that is present when we run the Wildcat, and frankly when you see teams like Minnesota and Miami having so much success and creativity with it, it gets frustrating.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 5, 2009 7:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, the Panthers burned DRC for jumping on the smoke play too quickly
I bet the Saints see that tape as well.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Nov 3, 2009 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree they need to use Mike Goodson more...
…and particularly now when they need to throw something new into the mix that opponents can’t prepare against as easily. Goodson is a flat-out scoring threat. Yes, he can have problems hanging onto the ball, but that’s a correctable thing with the proper coaching.
Personally, I don’t want to see Goodson take additional carries away from Deangelo and Stewart, though…or at least, not a very high percentage. He needs to come in on running plays where they’re in the wildcat or using two RB sets where they can pair him with Deangelo and Jake could hand off to either guy to run for the edge.
More importantly, I think they need to start using Goodson in the passing game. Put him in the slot while Deangelo or Stewart is in the backfield. Put him in motion. Maybe handoff to him on a quick snap as he’s going in motion. Use him on reverses, paired up with Steve Smith. Try some new stuff and use him as the weapon he can be. What is there to lose at this point in the season by trying such things? The Panthers are a longshot to make the playoffs even as a wildcard. So, they could benefit by taking some longshots with their younger guys.
Sherrod Martin and Captain Munnerlyn are paying off dividends on defense. Why not look for something similar with Goodson on offense? Even if it doesn’t turn the season around, using him now and getting him experience in the sets can only make him better for our long-term success. Don’t just make him the KR until we draft another one and need to replace a RB we lost to free agency.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 3, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see them make use of Goodson in such ways but I question Davidson’s creativity.
by D-Ranged1 on Nov 3, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What is there to lose at this point in the season?
How about an exceptionally effective run game that’s won us three of our last four games. As I said above:
Since the bye, we’ve averaged 184.75 rushing yards a game, compared to 101 before the bye.
Let’s wait until at least this New Orleans showdown (where neither Jake nor Fox has ever lost) to write off the season.
The situations of Munnerlyn and Martin are also completely different. Who was blocking them from PT? CJ Wilson? Quentin Teal? As a nickel corner, you’re going to get plenty of snaps to make an impact. As a #3 back, you might get a carry or two a game, and he’s certainly not better than Williams or Stewart.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely wouldn’t interrupt Double Trouble with Goodson but when Carolina does pass, Goodson could provide an extra outlet that may be overlooked by the defense, at times.
A lot of but’s and maybe’s, though who knows, he might turn into an exceptional receiving back to eventually compliment Williams and Stewart… I agree that NO isn’t the time to be messing around with different antics, though.
In fact, with our remaining schedule, the off season may be the best time to work on these ideas.
by D-Ranged1 on Nov 3, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
I’m not suggesting Goodson receive so many carries as a RB that he disrupt the production of Williams and Stewart. In fact, I’m not even suggesting that he receive very many carries at all. Instead, I’m suggesting he could be worked into some of the formations along with Williams and Stewart to give them another playmaking option. If he’s on the field at the same time as Deangelo, either as part of a two-back set, as a slot WR, or whatever, I think he creates a new matchup problem. And it certainly creates a new wrinkle that the Saints won’t have seen before.
Regardless, I think it’s a moot point. I don’t believe the Panthers will use Goodson in such a fashion. I don’t think the coaching has the creativity or confidence to do anything of the sort. I also don’t think the Panthers will be able to pull off another surprising win against New Orleans. I just think the task is too formidable, both on offense and defense. My suggestion with regards to Goodson is more to keep New Orleans off-balance and maybe give another rookie a chance to make a significant contribution to the team…maybe even enough to help them win.
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 3, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But that's not really what our run game is built on.
In all three of our games where we’ve been without Hoover for a time (Dallas, Buffalo, after he went out against Arizona), we’ve really struggled to gain a lot of ground in the run game. Trickery and versatilty is all well and good, but I think our identity is power running, right in your mouth.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I totally agree...
…power running is our bread and butter. And it should always be so…i.e., meaning we should feature that more than anything else. But, it’s what you do with those other plays that can catch an opponent off-guard. Everyone knows we’re a power-running team. Everyone knows Jake is really struggling at the QB position this year. We’re completely one-dimensional. That’s why the box is getting stacked. And, when that happens, you need to take advantage of it in the passing game (which isn’t going too well for us right now) or with misdirection (which is where I think Goodson could help). I’m not saying you run Goodson on trick plays all the time. It’s completely situational. But there are moments where I think they could use him this year, especially in big games where we’re not expected to win.
But, regardless, I get your point. That’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 4, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a fantactic idea.
Maybe Jaxon can talk to the CAR brass about stealing Paul Johnson from GT. JStew is a perfect B back, DWill is a prototypical A back, and Goodsen could take the other A back slot. That would put Steve Smith one on one with no safety help. Sure you could get Vick at the end of the season for cheap, and probably even sign Nesbitt as an UFA after the draft for the back up spot. The defenses in the NFC South are small and quick, and would get crushed by the Spread Wishbone….
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Nov 3, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Option offense in the NFL?
Hey man… they once said the RB direct snap aka “wildcat” would never catch on.
by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AND, it's easier to find the quality RBs than to find one quality QB...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Nov 4, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this will never happen
I would like to see rosario start at wideout cant be any slower that moose. lol
by sincedayone on Nov 3, 2009 7:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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