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Panthers vs. Saints Highlights Discussion

As I was watching the NFL.com highlights from the game I had the urge to point out some of the keys to the big plays that are being discussed or I just have a question that you may be able to help me with. As I watched the embedded clip (after the jump) I was left with the impression that our secondary gambled too much on the INT or simply just blew the coverage, something they had avoided pretty well most of the season.

So take a look at the clip and then my comments and lets see if we can agree on some of the fault or clear up some questions:

Star-divide

So for each of the key plays here's a tidbit that is not discussed shall we say:

1. On the D-Will 66 yard TD Williams stiff arms the DE who should have made the tackle. Great blocking from the o-line that just silences the crowd

2. The Brayotn sack and FF was just a great example of a non-stop motor, nice play

3. On D-Will 2nd TD the announcer correctly poitns out that C Ryna Kalil drove the NG out of the play. Kalil has been a star performer and could be a future PBer.

4. On J-Stew's fumble, how many times do you see a RB fighting for that last unneeded yard only to lose the ball. Just go down Stewart and take the loss!

5. CB Chris Gamble INT was made possible by the fact he knew he had deep coverage so he could gamble, no pun intended. Unfortunately Gamble rolls the dice later with no so good results.

6. On the Colston 45 yd catch down the sideline someone goes for the INT (Martin?) but misses. Gamble then makes the tackle. This play essentially allowed 3 points before the half.

7. On the 63 yard Henderson catch Chris Gamble got caught playing off on the slot receiver who then split the safeties who were out of position. Who more to blame for this one, Gamble, Harris or Martin?

8. On the Thomas 10 yd TD run someone runs up and whiffs on the tackle but I couldn't get a number? Harris or Martin is my guess.

9. On the 54 yd TD pass to Meachum Gamble does just that, gambles on the INT and misses. Did he think he had deep help but didn't? What annoyed me about the play was Gamble didn;t even make sure he had the tackle if he did miss and then he just continued to back peddle out of the play.

10. On the game winning drive Meachum again made a key 21 yd play, this time surprisingly wide open. Who blew the coverage? Its hard to say from the tape but hoping someone else can clarify.

11. On the Hargrove fumble recovery and TD he is obviously touched by Jeff King when on the ground but since the Panthers didn't have a TO they couldn't challenge. Not that is probably would made a difference but you never know.

I await your comments my friends...

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On #6 I read somehwere it was Martin and not Marshall

Pretty sure it wasn’t Marshall since Gamble was also on that side of the field

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Okay...maybe nobody wants to talk about it...;)

Are we trying to wipe it from memory?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You know a lot here are hard on Marshall

But like you pointed out (and I said yesterday), Gamble played very poorly during some passing plays. Maybe it had to do with thinking he had help over the top from one of the safeties, but he is suppose to be the veteran of that secondary.

Very disappointing

by SmithnCompany on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...I saw the comments on marshall and wondered where it was coming from

I didn’t see fault to him on any of the key plays. I think Martin blew one or two but Gamble was at fault for a couple for sure.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The announcers on the radio said

Martin whiffed on the tackle. Hope that clarifies.

Our defense just lost control there at the end, they weren’t getting in their gaps, they weren’t staying disciplined, they gambled too much when they didn’t have to, and they forgot how to tackle. They had better come out mad versus Atlanta, and with our running game versus their defense, they cannot afford a turnover. Hopefully we get Rosario and Moose back as well, though I’d like to see Jarret get more time at WR. He has nice hands, and did pretty well at gaining separation.

by Flowing Willow on Nov 11, 2009 6:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It was a good game.

Still kinda bummed out about losing.

by chinchillas sword on Nov 10, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I also think that Godfrey will get his starting position back

Once he’s 100%. Martin still has some work to do and will likely be the longterm starter as FS eventually.

by SmithnCompany on Nov 10, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1...Martin has plenty to learn

but he seems to have the knack. I look for him to battle for the starting FS spot in camp next year.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for making us relive that nightmare Jaxon

This team is an emotional roller coaster. We will probably beat the Falcons next week, only to get hopeful again, so we can turn around and lose to Miami. I assume this will go on the rest of the season, we’ll wind up 9-7, crossing our fingers that some 9-6 or 8-7 NFC East team will lose so we can slip into the playoffs… Of course they won’t.

I am obviously not a happy Panther fan.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It would be some consolation if we could break the...

never had back-to-back winning seasons thing…that is quite annoying. A little consolation…but in the end any season short of a playoff berth is a disappointment.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We must learn from it ST

and that reminds me…when are you going to learn to not talk so much smack on the opposing teams blog? Ha! Seems I hear it every week..“That Southtunnel has been over here all week talking trash…” you are too funny.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, Ok, I'll tone it down

It’s getting harder to talk trash anyways ;)

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This week how about I go over to Falcoholic

And give them 50 reasons why they’ll spank us???

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lets not get crazy...

I was mostly kidding…no one has registered a complaint, so thanks for staying classy …but you must be getting under their skin…lol.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's always comforting to bring up Cowher again after a loss

And how he went to the AFC Championship 40% of his years in Pittsburgh. And how he would have been barking all over DeAngelo and JStew for fumbling, spit flying every which direction.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And losing ever one of those all but two of those appearences.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, talk about bad grammar.

“And losing all but two of those appearences” is what I meant to say there.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You are slaying the English language!

but at least you edit your own work!

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's about consistenly being good

I am sick of Fox’s every 3rd year routine. Plus consistently going to the playoffs is the best way to eventually win the big one.

Look at it this way…

Conference Championship appearances: Cowher 40% (of years as HC), Fox 22%
Division Titles: Cowher 53%, Fox 22%
Playoff Berths: 67%, Fox 33%

Cowher never lost more than 10 games in consecutive years… That’s what I’m talkin about!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My biggest thing is.. We seem to have so much talent that is not being utilized.. I’m getting to the point that I just want to see our talent used properly, however that need be accomplished.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 10, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well we are running the ball very well and the defense is looking much better

The lack of utilized talent can only be in the passing game. That has to either be Jake’s fault, or Jake/Fox/Davidson’s faults.

Priority of changes needed:
1. Jake
2. Davidson
3. Fox (if able to be replaced by a Bill Cowher caliber coach)

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One example that I can think of..

As has already been pointed out in other posts, is the failure to get in the red zone from the 1 yard line…

Williams, Stewart, Smith, all of players on our team and we can’t figure out how to pick up a yard on 1st & 1? Stewart had just picked up 10 yards the play before, he or Williams should’ve got the go ahead up the middle, repeatedly, until we were in…

What happened was a circus show.

Overall, yes, we’re running well but it’s often interrupted and the drive killed by stupid pass plays.

The defense need learn to play 4 quarters, we’ve been weak in the 4th and, last week, the entire second half.

Delhomme has done good these past two starts but someone (I say Davidson) isn’t calling plays appropriate for him.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 10, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That definitely should have been a run!

And I feel confident it would have been a TD. But remember Brees’ bothced snap that he recovered and threw at the feet of a receiver, just so they didn’t loose yards? What a heads up play! Why can’t Jake at least do something like that, so we can run the next play… So I say Delhomme ;)

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Williams, Stewart, Smith, all of players on our team and we can’t figure out how to pick up a yard on 1st & 1? Stewart had just picked up 10 yards the play before, he or Williams should’ve got the go ahead up the middle, repeatedly, until we were in…

Pretty sure we would’ve gotten it in if Bernadeau hadn’t screwed it up.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

That’s what the circus show was referencing.. Surely there was no way of predicting what would happen, but if they were not sure (such as, due to lack of time to practice), why not just call a dive with no FB?

I imagine it was a freak accident but at the same time, I feel they should have done what they were most comfortable with… and if we were most comfortable with Bernadeau, it should have never happened to begin with.

Again, I’ll stick with “freak accident” for that one.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 10, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In Cowher’s case, it took him over ten years to get a championship. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather not wait that long to win it all even considering consecutive playoff berths.

This is all assuming that hiring Cowher would produce similar results to what he produced in Pittsburgh, and I kinda doubt it, and Jerry Richardson probably does to considering what happened with George Seifert.

Personally, if we have to replace Fox, I’d rather we go with a rising coordinator. I vote Kyle Shanahan.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rising coordinator? That's how we got Fox

It’s also been noted that Cowher has a wealth of relationships, and could bring in some big names GMs and coordinators. You won’t get that from a newbie.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, and despite his inconsistency, Fox has been our best head coach by far.

Honestly, I don’t want a new GM or coordinators. I like what we’ve got right now. Hurney’s a solid GM, Meeks’s system has just begun to shine, and as much as I agree that Davidson’s playcalling can be off, his run blocking schemes are just brilliant, and I don’t wanna risk losing them.

Unless of course we can prove that Dave Magazu is really behind the improvement of the offensive line, in which case, go ahead and find a new OC.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry - but all I can see is the 4th Qtr drive

when all of a sudden Jake is heaving clunkers down the field. From TMQ: “despite a strong rushing offense and a turnover-happy pass attack, Carolina coaches keep calling passes.”

I’m trying to decide if the appropriate sound is a sigh, moan, or growl.

by panthersnbraves on Nov 10, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You have to pass at some point. You can’t just run every single play.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True...but a higher percentage pass play would have been better

or a screen on 2nd down or…I can hear the moans…but a draw play on 3rd down. D-Will has been money on those

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Nov 10, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also would have..

like to see more pass plays in the 2nd quarter when they were up but that is not conservative John Fox football. Run on 3rd and long will only work so many times.
“A punt is not a bad play”- unless of course it is against the high scoring Saints!

by Davejinxer on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

Give Jake a chance to see if he can sling it around before they come back… By the 4th it’s too late. You just can’t be too conservative against an offense like that.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not talking about that horrid sequence with three minutes left. I agree we really screwed that up. I’m talking about everyone’s supposed opinion that we should do absolutely nothing except run the ball. That’s not gonna work. You need to throw sometime. Hell, we might’ve scored more points in the first half if we’d broken up the monotony of our playcalling with an occasional pass.

by SlayerGhaleon on Nov 10, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right.. but we also passed 30 times, which we tend to lose when such happens.. Given a lot of those were on that last, pathetic drive after New Orleans recovered the fumble for a TD.

I still believe the run would have won it for us on our drive around the 4 minute mark.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 10, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, half of those were in the last 5 minutes.

We ran the majority of the game. The Saints tightened up on it, and were looking more offensively aggressive every time they got the ball. The only way to win was to pass some… We just don’t have a QB to do it.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“and were looking more offensively aggressive every time they got the ball.”

Absolutely. so why do we want to pass and give them the ball back with far more time than if we had continued to run?

I might be crazy but running the clock down while there’s only a 3 point difference, then punching it in for a score seemed like the better idea, in my opinion.

Making a few deep, and intermediate, passes for a score (or in our case, a bunch of incomplete passes) and giving the ball back to New Orleans with plenty of time left to get another touchdown makes our effort look like it was for nothing.

Say Delhomme completed some of those deep passes, then we get in the end zone a few plays later, touchdown! Then we kick to New Orleans with 3 minutes left, they march down field, and take the lead back with another touchdown with 30 seconds remaining. We get the ball back, once again down by 3, and can do nothing but take deep shots until the game ends.

by D-Ranged1 on Nov 10, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear what you are saying

Maybe we would have scored and ate up the clock. But hind sight is 20 20. It just seems unrealistic to me to expect any coordinator to be successful calling plays for a one dimensional offense.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Nov 10, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas the Monster Davis

Don’t forget the impact of Davis’ injury. After he left the game, the Saints kept running to where he used to be. I say Connor needs to get on the field. I think we would’ve forced a punt on the Saints last scoring drive if he was on the field

by usana_gaines on Nov 10, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs


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