An Analyst's Take On Delhomme
by Ryan Basen on Oct 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT
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PrintAdd an NFL analyst to the group of people who say Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme has not lost any arm strength since undergoing elbow surgery two years ago.
Delhomme's problems, the analyst says, are more mental than physical. In fact, his confidence is wavering so much that he is among the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL...
Following Carolina's loss in Dallas Sept. 28, ESPN analyst Steve Young questioned if Delhomme could still throw the deep ball with any zip. It looked like Delhomme was floating the ball, Young said.
Delhomme refuted that notion while talking to reporters last week. On Wednesday he reiterated his stance while talking briefly with CSR. "My arm is a lot stronger now since surgery," Delhomme said while standing by his locker. "There's not much I can say to (Young's comment). It really doesn't mean anything to me."
Here's another take on Delhomme: He has not lost any zip; he never had a great arm to begin with. So says Chris Steuber, an NFL analyst with Scout.com and FoxSports.com. Steuber has been watching film of Delhomme for at least five years, he says. The Philadelphia-based analyst has been scouting NFL players for 10 years.
Steuber spoke with CSR Friday afternoon. Here are highlights from that conversation:
Q: Have you studied Delhomme? What do you think of his arm strength?
A: "I've studied him and I'm not really impressed with Jake overall, and never have been. I think it's more his decision-making than arm strength. It's just questionable all-around.
"He forces the issue. He doesn't have the elite arm strength you want from a quarterback who takes the chances he takes. He doesn't look off his primary receiver too often, which gets him into trouble. Defenses know what they're going to get when they face Jake Delhomme. If you get any kind of pressure on him, he's going to make mistakes."
Q: What do notice about Delhomme that's different from, say, 2004?
A: "He's a shaky quarterback now. He doesn't really know where to go with the ball ...He does have some physical tools, but I think overall he's kind of limited as an athlete and as a QB.
"(He is) on the last legs of his career and he's just trying to hang on at this point...
"A lot of it has to do with age. He does have a good offensive line protecting for him.
"I think a lot of it is mental for him...He's trying to force the issue and when he forces the issue he gets himself in trouble."
Q: Is he less confident than a few years ago?
A: "Yes.
"He does have some good weapons around him...He has Steve Smith. He has Muhsin Muhammad.
Q: In the same postgame show when Young questioned Delhomme's arm strength, an ESPN analyst also said Delhomme does not have enough weapons on offense. It sounds like you disagree.
A: "He does have veterans like Muhammad, who is not the receiver he first was with the Panthers, but is still a veteran...and with Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, that's one of the better one-two punches in the league (at running bacK), and they're also good receivers out of the backfield.
"One thing Delhomme never has had is a quality tight end over the middle. That's something he really needs."
Q: Back to my reason for calling. Do you notice any difference in Delhomme's arm strength since the surgery?
A: "I don't really notice anything. He doesn't have great arm strength, that's obvious...I don't think he had great arm strength in the past. It was just mediocre to average.
"He's not the most physically talented guy in the world either. I think he's very limited in what he can do in general. I think (the problem is) more confidence...
"Hes just not the QB he was in the past, and in the past he wasn't that great either."
Q: How many other NFL quarterbacks have you studied this year?
A: "I've studied them all."
Q: Where does Delhomme rank among the starters?
A: "He's among the bottom five."
(Steuber places Delhomme in a group including the Raiders' Jamarcus Russell, and whoever the Browns and Buccaneers start on a given weekend).
Q: So you rank him below guys like (Sunday's opponent) the Redskins' Jason Campbell and a rookie like Mark Sanchez?
A: "I'm not a big fan of Campbell either. I'd put him in the bottom 10...I like Sanchez a lot...
"(Campbell) still doesn't really get it as a QB, but he has a lot more talent than Jake Delhomme has ever had.
"As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of (Delhomme)."
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Sounds about right. He covers just about everything pretty accurately. Jake carries a lot of intangibles though. He used to have a knack for late game drives and he’s a good emotional leader for the offense. However, when you consistently make mistakes and lose games for your team, all of those intangibles go out the window.
He nails it on the head with Jake’s biggest flaws, which have always been obvious to non-biased analysts and have only recently been acknowledged by the most die hard Panthers fans that not only looked past his flaws because of his knack for winning games, but refused to believe they even existed.
1) He locks into his primary receiver too often.
2) He’s never had great arm strength to begin with.
3) He’s willing to throw the ball into tight coverage despite not having great arm strength.
4) He wilts under pressure and makes bad decisions and coughs up the ball too easily.
It's hard to disagree with your list
and I’m going to resist the urge to provide a counter list of his pluses. Jake may make some bad passes/decisions but he can also make some absolutely beautiful passes too.
So we have a great comparison this weekend with Jason Campbell. Let’s see how it plays out.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Yeah, he's got Delhomme's weakness' pegged
But when you have a primary like Smith, it’s hard not to lock on. When Delhomme was younger, his strength was accuracy and moxy, when he was protected of course. That’s why he was so successful, he could put the ball exactly where it needed to be, even in the tight windows this guy criticizes him for throwing into. A little bit more about that, every window in the NFL is usually short, if you see an opening, you have to take it, because another one might not open before you are sacked. It’s easier to take those when you have a cannon instead of an arm, Delhomme uses accuracy instead, but when he isn’t protected, that goes down the drain. And usually when he is getting pressured, it’s because we are behind and the defense knows it’s going to be a pass. That’s when things go wrong.
by Flowing Willow on Oct 10, 2009 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice post Ryan....
I’ve been concerned about his arm strength but sounds like its no concern, which is good, because that is unlikely to get better. The mental errors though are correctable.
Maybe he needs to see a sports shrink? Maybe he can see the guy John Smoltz saw back in the 90’s. ;)
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Jake is plenty strong
A few years back ESPN had one of those quarterback competitions where they played other sports and also did things in their own sport. Jake beat Manning on throwing the football deep. He’s got plenty of arm strength, it’s how he uses it and I would also throw in that he doesn’t seem to have the touch on his deep balls either.
I agree with the analyst that he’s losing confidence though. He needs a good OC who can call plays that highlight his strengths and hide his weaknesses. Since last year’s playoff game he’s been treated by the coaches like he’s Tom Brady, and he isn’t. They need to give him stuff that he can do well, and stick with it. The more they ask him to carry the team on his arm instead of on his attitude, the worse he’ll get.
Chris Steuber
28 years old, a self-proclaimed expert with no background at all, and a claim of 10 years experience.
He’s a blogger who self-promoted himself on to scout.com, meaning he gets carried by Fox when they need more content. He did manage to call six first round picks successfully this year though, and predicted Everett Brown would be the ninth overall pick. :)
I’ll trust Gruden and Jaws. Their opinion on Jake is a thousand more accurate than Steuber’s.
I was gonna say. This guy didn’t sound like any legit analyst I’ve ever heard.
by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 9, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are we giving this hack credibility by quoting him here??
Hell, if HE’S an “NFL Analyst”, then so am I— after all he’s only looked at film of Delhomme for 5 years, and I’ve logged 7 — plus I’ve watched NFL QB’s for over 45 years. If that’s all it takes to be an expert, we probably all are!
Here’s an example of this “Scout’s” expertise:
“Kentwan Balmer, North Carolina, 6-5, 308
• Scouting report: A tackle, Balmer is known for a quick first step and great upper-body strength. He also is versatile. Started 12 games at right tackle, eight at left tackle and three at right end. Finished his career with 93 tackles, seven sacks and 17 tackles for losses.
• Insider’s take: “An intriguing prospect who defends the run extremely well, Balmer has caught the eye of many teams in the league.” —Scout.com draft Analyst Chris Steuber"
Now as we know SF drafted Balmer in the 1st round in 2008 - he’s played 20 games as their DE, and had how many sacks?? - that’s right — ZERO.
Some scout.
How 'bout we interview one of the Topcats?
They’ve probably got equally valuable opinions on Delhomme, too.
Guys...sure we may not agree with this guy Steuber and his opinion
on Jake…but cut Ryan a break. He’s just trying to add a different perspective. Besides, when Delhomme outplays Campbell we can all abuse Steuber relentlessly!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Sorry -- Ryan's done good work for us here.
I was just ticked that this “analyst” got cred for just having an opinion, which sorta implied expert measurables of velocity and heart — he was just too subjective to me. I’ve read pretty much the same stuff from dozens of other bloggers about Jake. But I didn’t see that Steuber has any great track record of player analysis, as witness my insert on Balmer.
So I just got in some advance abuse.
I haven't kept up with Balmer
Is he sucking for the 49ers?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
20 games -- no sacks
Another Tarheel DE who’s in it for the $.
DE? I thought he was a DT?
DE in a 3-4 I guess. Do you expect sacks from a 3-4 DE?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
He's now #2 on their depth chart behind Sopoaga
He was drafted high and has been a bust – that’s the point I was making about how reliable this blgger’s evaluations have been. I still suspect that Steuber contacted Ryan to give him an “interview” just to get his name in print. He’s just a blogger for Scout.com — I wouldn’t say that’s any authority on Jake Delhomme. The reason I picked on Balmer was it was about the only thing I could find that had Steuber’s name on it. His specialty is “evaluating” college draft talent, like Mel Kiper.
With that, I promise to let it go.
Okay, now it's abuse time, right?
Here’s what the punk hack said:
“he’s kind of limited as an athlete and as a QB.
(He is) on the last legs of his career and he’s just trying to hang on at this point…"
Like to see Steuber make that 10 yard scramble for the key first down.
Next time, Ryan, interview somebody who knows what he’s talking about, huh?
10 years of experience
i’m glad you guys are saying what you’re saying. it’s always very important to look at the source, and let’s be honest, some CSR loyalists have provided really in depth analysis on jake delhomme. his analysis isn’t too bad, but we have real analysts here, and we don’t need more opinion. what we need is wins. jake has easily lost confidence, and you know what it takes to get that back…wins. we’ll get our first one this weekend, and go from there.
however, i do appreciate this guy taking time out to answer some questions. he didn’t have to do that, and i can appreciate that.
by usana_gaines on Oct 10, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
MeThinks.......
the analyst, needs an analyst. I’m not sold on his credentials. Consistency in play-calling, highlighting your players’ strengths, and doing a professional job of game planning for your opponent would certainly make Jake’s confidence, decision-making, and performance look a helluva lot better. We might just win a few games if the coaches did their jobs. BTW; we need to scrap the new defense too………it ain’t workin’.
Geaux Panthers !!!
Bench Delhomme...
Start Moore and let us move forward from this debate over Jake! He is one of the big question marks about the team. I despise the fact that this is one of the Panther’s major weaknesses, when successful teams have the QB position figured out. This is based solely on my opinion and from watching football as well.
I like to think its good guys like Steuber can rise to that level of prominence
by providing good analysis and being right more than they are wrong. Jake has never impressed ‘non-fan’ analyst. We went undrafted and is unimpressive in all of the measureable for a QB, arm strength, etc…. Yet he’s remained the Panther QB because of his unmeasurables, 4th qtr comebacks, etc….Did any analyst give him props for the 4th qtr wins over the Chargers or Packers last season? No…he’s just lucky in their view.
I’m glad to hear Steuber say he doesn’t think his arm strength has diminished. Yet I’m also VERY concerned about Jake’s confidence. He has got to get it back ASAP or we will call for Matt Moore to start.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Confidence and momentum....
are intangibles that can make an average team/player look great and vice versa.
Hopefully we’ll get on the positive side of that equation tomorrow.
GO PANTHERS!
While I appreciate Steuber's analysis, and definately wont knock a guy who worked his way up...
I have a very, very hard time buying that Jake is a bottom 5 QB. Here’s the list of QBs I would rate below Jake:
- Jamarcus Russell
- Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn
- Chad Henne
- Shaun Hill
- Kyle Orton
- Kerry Collins
And I’m being pretty generous not incuding Matt Stafford, who will be better, but isn’t there yet.
Furthermore, I have to admit that I tend to tune out an analysis when people use the term ‘elite arm strength’. I know it’s the ESPN buzz term of the last decade but players like Jeff Garcia, Steve Young, Chad Pennington and Tom Brady were knocked for not having ‘elite arm strength’.
As for the question of Jake’s arm strength: Empirically, I feel he has lost some strength. I don’t have any true example, just opinion, but I feel that in 03 and 04 when he made a bad throw he would be overthrowing a reciever by 10 yards, not underthrowing by 3-5 yards. It also seems that Jake isn’t leading his recievers enough and Smitty isn’t able to get the yac he normally is.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
James...
got to agree with you on Jake’s arm strength. Just doesn’t seem to have that zip on it anymore. Don’t get me wrong, every now and then he will throw a beautiful pass and look like the younger Jake, but lately not so much. At least that is what I’m seeing, fwiw.
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Not sure about that
I think his arm strength is fine. What I think is different is how Jake feels about it, if that makes sense. He says it’s stronger and that’s generally the case when people have that kind of surgery. But with that said, there’s no question that he’s not throwing the deep ball as well as he once was. It’s almost like he’s compensating too much for not hurting when he throws, and actively trying NOT to overthrow his receivers. Like he doesn’t know his limits or capabilities like he once did.
Steuber says the Panthers don't have a TE to go down the middle?
Huh? How many does Rosario have to catch down to middle for people to notice? Both his TD’s this season were down the middle
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Steuber better watch his words.
The Ghost of Wesley Walls might stricken him with muteness, and punch him with the fist in his beard.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I'll say that this next game should be Jake's last chance.
If Jake Delhomme throws another bad game like he threw last year after his two Bye weeks, a combined nine interceptions, then we should throw Matt Moore in and see what he has.
At that point, you have to figure that the aura in the locker room would be abysmal. Everyone would be emo, knowing they have nothing to fight for, no playoff race to get to. If Matt Moore comes in during Week 5 and shows he can be a starter, it could provide a spark to energize our team, and give us another chance to make a second effort to get to the playoffs.
He’ll have two easy games to gain the confidence against the team, and by the time Week 7 gets here the Panthers will be like a roaring train, full of confidence and rushing towards you like it wants to kill your face. Which team on our tough schedule will be able to summon the strength to stop it?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I think it's less dependant on Jake and more dependant on a W
If we win, then despite how Jake plays I think you keep him in. If he loses, then yes… it’s time to see if Matt Moore has what it takes to be the starter.
I think we’re winning tomorrow, I really do… but if we do lose then the season is all but gone. We have to end up 3-3 heading into Arizona, preferably 4-3 heading into New Orleans.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Oct 11, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Jake's played well the last two games
This team has plenty of problems, but outside Philly QB hasn’t been one of them
Jake's played decent..
which is what he asked to do. Not give the game away. The big question is the confidence the team has in the man. Being that QB is the most important position for a team , confidence in that position needs to be high.
last season
last season the chargers were 4-8 and the eagles were 5-6-1 after 12 games, and both made the playoffs. of course i don’t wan’t to talk about 0-4, and i think we’ll win big against washington, but if not, we’re still not completely out of it.
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