Could Delhomme's mechanics be the problem?
by BW Smith on Oct 29, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
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PrintI just saw this tidbit of information about the Panthers' coaching staff and their treatment of Jake Delhomme this season. (This absolutely cannot be true -- it just cannot.)
The Panthers have agreed to stop tinkering with Jake Delhomme's mechanics and will allow him to play a more spontaneous style. ... Quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer was brought in this offseason to emphasize the technical part of the job to Delhomme. It hasn't worked as Delhomme has thrown 13 picks and four touchdowns. Allowing Delhomme to go back to improvising and side-arming can't hurt at this point, but we doubt it will help enough to turn the Panthers' season around.*
Someone please tell me that the cause of Delhomme's problems this season isn't from the QB coach trying to change the way he throws the football. This can't be happening. Why in the world would anyone want to convince a 7-year starter who has been to 1 Super Bowl and 2 NFC Championship games that he needs to change his mechanics?
I know, I know -- he came off Tommy John surgery and they wanted to make sure his arm held up for the long run, but still -- you can't change a quarterback's mechanics. He's not a relief pitcher -- he's a freaking quarterback. Sure, he hasn't been Peyton Manning, but he's been decent enough to lead the team to a Super Bowl appearance and 2 NFC title games when doing it his way. Why would any coach want to change that?
If Delhomme comes out against Arizona this week and throws the football his way (the way he's been throwing his entire career), and the Panthers look like the team they were last year (you know, the team that went 12-4 and won the NFC South), then Rip Scherer should be ran out of town -- after he is blindfolded and tied to the goal post at Bank of America stadium for every Panthers fan to come by and punch him in the gut, that is.
(On a side note, this would be a great way for Jerry Richardson to add revenue -- he could charge fans a $20 fee to stand in line. It would probably make him enough money to sign a big-name free agent in the offseason, so it would definitely be worth it.)
* - Information courtesy of Rotoworld.
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I would have hoped they would have thought of this a few weeks ago but I guess not. I thought the whole “mechanics” thing was out the window when it didn’t work the first few times.
{Sarcasm}It makes perfect sense that we need a QB that can do more than Delhomme has done in previous seasons. With our lack of run game, Delhomme is definitely our only option for victory. Managing the game simply isn’t enough, he must be Peyton Manning X.{/Sarcasm}
Seriously, I would have just left him alone after last year. I guess we’ll see if this makes any difference, or if Delhomme is over and done with.
You're right, how could I forget...
Our running game absolutely sucks – we should probably look into drafting a RB next season. (haha)
hahahaha
Absolutely! We’ll trade our first and second round picks of the following two years for two first round picks and use those for two running backs. After that, ummm, we can draft a kicker, maybe a new waterboy, and some other positions that don’t need immediate addressing.
We’ll turn this into the best-most hydrated team yet!
Meanwhile Peyton Manning X will take us to the Super Bowl (and win it) solely by himself (he doesn’t even need a WR, he throws and catches the ball).
I think that’s our philosophy.
I KNEW something was up with his mechanics.
If it aint broke… don’t fix it.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Exactly...
I could somewhat understand this if Delhomme were a 1st or 2nd year guy — but he’s been around way too long to be tinkering with his mechanics now.
One would think that the front office and coaching staff would know this.
Indeed
As we’ve seen Jake more than he should this year, something always seemed…off. It just didn’t seem like his feet were in the ideal position…hip rotation…release – there was just something that didn’t seem fluid. If the reason is the ass-clown QB coach – then I’m pretty pissed off. Jake has never been a Peyton – but you cannot start adjusting technique with a guy that’s been a QB for 7+ years.
Case and point – I play a lot of disc golf. I had been throwing a certain way for a couple of years. I decided that I wasn’t getting enough distance or accuracy – so I got a local pro to adjust my throwing style. Not only did I start throwing with less distance, I probably killed a few more trees than normal – until my muscle memory adjusted to the new way. Now Jake is fighting his 7-10 year throwing tendencies to utilize what ass-clown has drilled in his head since TC? No effin wonder his throws look so terrible.
by boywonderncsu on Oct 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Same coach who had such great "successes" with guys like Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, and Brady Quinn.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 1, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
If this turns out to be true, I really don’t know if I can say I’ll be happy.
On the one hand, it would be great to have the old Jake back, if only for the prospect of having someone solid until we get a new franchise QB.
On the other, as some others have noted, I really can’t stand the idea of having our season likely shellacked because of a QB coach.
Anyway, suppose we’ll find out soon enough.
Seriously. Is Jake a rookie now or is he just recently back from Lourdes? Maybe returning from a trip to the Fountain of Youth?
How in the name of Sam Mills do you start tinkering with a 30-something quarterback’s mechanics? Somebody please tell me what these people that run my Panthers are THINKING?!?!?
I’m really just hoping that this is some way-too-convenient story thats been trotted out there to help Jake and this coaching staff get back the support of the fan base. Then again, that would mean they are basically lying to keep their jobs, which would be depressing as well. Unless we actually start to throw the ball well, and win games.
by The Kackalack Kid on Oct 29, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
Caption that photo:
Panthers HC John Fox says to QB Hunter Cantwell as he walks up:
“So how does it feel to be the 4th string QB behind the NFL worst QB?”
Jakes laughs, Fox smirks, Feeley tries not to make him feel worse and Matt Moore looks at him like he has H1N1.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I’m pretty sure it’s true as I remember reading about them working on Delhomme’s mechanics before the season ever began. I don’t remember where it was I originally read it as I didn’t expect it to lead to such a downward spiral and thus brushed it off as non-important but I do remember footwork and pocket presence being two points they emphasized among others.
Rather or not that has actually affected his performance (or if he has just truly fallen that far, mechanics or not) remains to be seen.
Maybe the FO was making a knee-jerk reaction to...
Delhomme’s perceived poor performance over the season. I look at this as a middle finger to the fans, justification for Delhomme, and and excuse for Fox to keep his job. None of those are necessarily bad things, I’m just calling it as I see it.
by Flowing Willow on Oct 30, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm I think the problem might have something to do with..
TOMMY JOHN SURGERY.. we have an aging quarterback who wasn’t spectacular before tj surgery and falls apart after the regular season and you give him a raise and invest guaranteed money even tho he didnt ask for it? then give up next years 1st round pick for a small DE who needs to develop
I’ve bounced around with the prospect of the Tommy John being the reason (see this week’s Monday Morning Optimist) but ultimately, there is a greater chance this QB coach in the reason, rather than the surgery
In 2008 Delhomme was:
- 15th in the NFL in passing yards (3,288)
- 22nd in the NFL in completion percentage (59.4%)
- 18th in the NFL in QB rating (84.7)
Compare this to 2006, before the surgery
- 17th in the NFL in passing yards (2,805)
- 16th in the NFL in completion pecentage (61%)
- 12th in the NFL in QB rating (82.6)
Stats wise, it all comes out in the wash.
As for Everette Brown… I think he was a great pickup, even for the 1st rounder. Even with his limited playing time he’s:
- 6th in the NFL in tackles by rookie defensive linemen
- 1st (tied) in the NFL in sacks by rookie defensive linemen
- 1st in the NFL in forced fumbles by a rookie defensive linemen.
Seven defensive linemen were taken in the 1st round of 2009, Brown is statistically superior to all of them in each two of these catergories, with only Robert Ayers being superior in tackles with 1 more than Brown.
Brown is shaping up to be a second round steal.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Oct 30, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
They "invested guaranteed money" so they could lower his cap number.
They did so by more than 20%.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 1, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Brown has a motor that never stops. There have been a few times when I’m watching the game and I think, “damn…get it done Brown!”
good points james i agree with much of what you said but be careful when you try to call brown a “second round steal” you really can’t leave out the 1st round and 2nd round picks it took to get him.. I always wonder if San Fran would have possibly taken our next years 2nd and this year or next’s 3rd
Just so we're clear what the trade actually was:
- San Francisco trade 2009 2nd round pick (Everette Brown), 2009 4th round pick (Mike Goodson) for Carolina’s 2010 1st round pick.
We didn’t give up a 2nd and a 1st to get Brown. We had two 2nd round selections in ’09 (Brown and Sherrod Martin).
All we gave up was next year’s 1st for Everette Brown who’s out performing the 2009 1st round DL’s and Mike Goodson who I think we all agree has been a very, very pleasant surprise.
I know QB is the major concern, however, if Peppers does leave in 2010 we would have used our 1st rounder on a DE… guaranteed. So, I look at it like we got a great player and were able to give him a year of experience before he’s required to be a starter.
Maybe that’s just the optimist in me.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Speaking of DE, lets play the The Gruden Experiment
I was watching the UFL the other night when they mentioned something that surprised me… Simeon Rice is playing for the UFL trying to get back into the NFL. Despite his age, he was playing with fire. Where the ball was to be found was also Simeon Rice, regardless of who tried step in his way.
After looking up his recent activity on Wikipedia, it seems Rice left Tampa due to his unwillingness to accept a pay cut on IR and didn’t work out in Denver due to lack of playing time. Why he got released from Indy remains unclear with the little info his WP entry provides.
Question being, if Peppers doesn’t resign, does Carolina draft another DE, stick with what we’ve already got, or contemplate the idea of signing someone like Rice to a short contract to fill any gap there may be in finding a replacement for Peppers?
Honestly, I think we stand pat
While Pep is tough to replace, with the way Brayton, Johnson and Brown are playing I’m okay going into the 2010 season with them.
Maybe sign a cheap vet to stick behind Brown, but I really like Charles Johnson and Everette Brown as the future bookends of the D-line.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
That's the same Simeon Rice who couldn't pass the last two or three physicals he's tried to take?
You don’t pick up a rotational DE who could go day any minute.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 1, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
That’s to say that there’s a guarantee on some players that they wont go any day any minute?
If Peppers re-signs, awesome. If he doesn’t and we have a player step up and fill his shoes, great. If we find a rookie, good, If those options are exhausted, you don’t take a chance on a guy that should be past his prime but is still playing with the drive to compete long enough to evaluate other options?
As injury prone as the Panthers are it doesn’t sound too great to pick up a guy that should be fishing, or doing some work at ESPN or Fox, but sometimes reward does outweigh risk.
Anyways, Rice was more so an example, any FA could be considered.
Who exactly is injury prone on the Panthers?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 2, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Did we not go through quite a list of defensive tackles this season among other, less extensive injuries? Have we not had a list of nagging injuries throughout this season? Remember 2004? It seems to happen often, with years without key injuries at some point being the rarity.
Point being: when a key player gets injured on the Panthers, we typically have a tough time filling their spot.
A single injury, catastrophic or not, does not make somebody injury-prone.
Kemoeatu, Leonard, and Irvin all suffered their first significant injuries of their career. Beason, Davis, and Harris have also been almost completely injury-free through their careers.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 2, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
And yet, as a team, injury plagues us repeatedly and is an often used excuse as to why we lose. Their whole careers aren’t as relevant as the Panthers season is, being each year different players are suffering injuries. Names change, yet injuries remain with us as with most teams.
I’m almost confused, what is our point here again? Are you saying that the Panthers don’t have injuries? Or am I to believe that the Panthers will never have another injury to worry about?
You made your case of not wanting an older DE (or, at least, Rice) but it seems you’re trying to argue that injuries are non-existent within the Panthers camp?
Hoover just suffered an injury. To what extent, I don’t know, but it’s another name on the list. Although unlikely, Fiametta may have to step up if Hoover is to lose any time.
Week 1 was the only week we have had less than five players on the injury report, with week 3 being the most at 15.
I find it hard to think that we can continue injury free, thus using the term “injury prone”.
No.
I’m arguing that the phrase “injury-prone” refers to chronically injured players who have dealt with issues to the same body part for some time. Simeon Rice is one of those. The Panthers don’t have any of those, aside from perhaps Hoover’s back. However, if he’s to be believed, he was over that issue as of this past game.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 2, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Injury prone does typically refer to players
He was referring to us as a team, typically someone at some position, or several someones at one position, will go down and leave us scrambling to replace them. So as a team, we have a knack for attracting the injury bug. Is that better than saying injury prone?
by Flowing Willow on Nov 3, 2009 5:00 AM EST up reply actions
Not really, because that would imply there's some sort of systematic problem.
Our players don’t have the kinds of pulls and other things that would imply they’re out of shape or poorly-conditioned. Perhaps Kemoeatu’s injury could be tied to this, but none of the other major ones (Jake’s elbow, Jenkins’ knees, Smitty’s leg, etc.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe there is
We always seem to run into injury problems, this year we’ve been hit hard at the DT position, as well as a few knicks to Beason, Davis, Harris, Godfrey, Muhammad, Rosario, Stewart, etc. Last year the O-line was hit hard, as well as the D-line late in the year. The year before, the QB position, it goes on and on.
How about referring to it as bad luck?
by Flowing Willow on Nov 4, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
Certainly works for me.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm
I’m not so sure you get my point, but if it was just what we were calling it that was your issue, I could care less.
by Flowing Willow on Nov 5, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions
true it doesn’t look so bad i suppose I’m just saying I still wonder what the negotiation process was like could we have tried to, instead of giving our 1st rounder, switch 2nd round picks with san fran and give them our 2010 2nd rounder. I’d give up sherrod for a pick in the 1st round next year for sure
Which would likely have been used on a DE
We just got Brown a year early. I understand your mad about the loss of a first rounder, but reality is first rounders are overrated, second rounders are underrated. We got Brown a year early as well as a nice utility guy in Mike Goodson.
by Flowing Willow on Oct 31, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Mechanics...
that must have been what was wrong with Jake last year when they played the Bucs, Raiders, and the Cardinals in the playoffs. ‘Oh that’s right…Rip wasn’t brought in until January 22, 2009.’
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