Jake Delhomme Named Starter Versus Arizona
It's being reported by all the beat writers that Delhomme will start against Arizona on Sunday
3 months ago
LittleKing
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Not surprised
Even if we lose I’d like to see Jake get a shot at attoning for the playoff game.
That doesn’t mean I don’t think we shouldn’t pull him after 1 quarter if he throws a nasty pick.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Jake stick it to them for wrecking his career
But to have Arz beat down Jake 2x will be extra painful. Then again so would throwing Moore to the wolves
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Oct 28, 2009 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Time to play the Cardinal defense in FFL
I bet the Cards DC can just review his game plan from the January playoff game and use it Sunday. It’s not like we’ve changed anything.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Oct 28, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry guys for being so pessimistic
I’ve had a rough day…very stressful. So I’m going to whip on Jake a little!!!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Oct 28, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being honest is not a problem
This website allows us to post how we feel. As far as we know he is going to be treated like chad Pennington. that is no serious pass over 20-30 yards with any consistency.
Hope your day is better.
by univonc on Oct 28, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no huddle
i think it’s a given that if jake throws 40 times from the standard set, we will lose. if that’s our game plan, davidson should be gone before jake. jake knows he shouldn’t throw it 40 times. he should run the no huddle. i think that’s a better idea than starting moore. also, for all we know, he had a secret qb competition in practice and everyone else sucked.
by usana_gaines on Oct 28, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is something to letting Jake run the no huddle and call the plays at the line
He did seem to do okay in that scenario
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Oct 28, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry too much about it Jack. I've been pessimistic since Game 1
Me and you can sit in the dark corner of the room and say stuff like.
“If life is so fair, then why do roses have thorns?”
Har har har. This is going to be a long season. I can’t wait till they start Matt Moore though. When they do, that should be a good game.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
by Revshawn on Oct 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think this does to Moore’s ego?
by EyeSack on Oct 28, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nothing?
I mean, I don’t really know for sure (no one does) but why would this hurt his ego? What ego does he have exactly? He hasn’t gone out and lit the world up with his play in his limited chances so I doubt he has that big of an ego.
If Moore is smart, he knows he will get his chance this season so he should be doing everything he can to show the best hes got when that opportunity does come.
by R-F on Oct 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know he has nothing to base his ego on but i’m sure he’s gotta be thinking something to the extent of ’jesus how bad does this guy have to do to let me get a shot out there"
by EyeSack on Oct 28, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
he deserves a chance to show what he can do…poor guy has never gotten a chance to prove himself…I understand its an away game and he might not perform well but Jake isn’t really doing to well himself…I guess we are never gonna how good Matt Moore really is b/c is scared to bench Jake and try something new
by jay23 on Oct 28, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally i think it makes him a little more attentive
he knows he is one throw away from his big chance.
by univonc on Oct 28, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
romo had to wait four years. he was never told anything, then during halftime of a game, parcells told him he was starting the second half. if he wasn’t prepared, too bad.
by usana_gaines on Oct 28, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Par for the course
“Jake Delhomme is our quarterback” —John Fox
Should Fox ever become a hall of famer for any reason, that is the qoute that should go right below his headshot, molded in brass, for generations to see. It is basically the verbal equivalent of John Madden saying “Boom!”, Chris Berman saying “Whoop!”, or Steve Urkel saying “Did i do that?”
Like i said in a different post. Fox is going to let Jake try and exorcise his demons, freakin Stargate style. He thinks if Jake has a good game, bingo! Jake is back! but god help us if he has a bad one. I still think Fox sticks it out until we are out of the division race mathematically before we see Moore start a football game.
Our only chance at salvation is to hear this on draft day… “with their 4th round pick the Carolina Panthers select QB Armanti Edwards, Appalachian State University.”
by Tater596 on Oct 28, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Armanti Edwards
Anyone have that ‘do not want dog’ handy?
Seriously though, he’s being projected 7th round – FA as a WR… not a QB.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
You have not seen the man play. He can pass and run. He has over 8000 yds. passing and 4000 yds. rushing. He has 2 1-AA national titles to his credit (That is 2 more than Joe Flacco and the late Steve McNair, both I-AA standouts) he has a win over Michigan in Ann Arbor, and he has a Walter Payton award. This year in particular he has been showcasing his ability as a passer. He can play, and he can play well.
Undersized, blah, blah, blah. Armanti Edwards is a player. If we can get him 7th round so be it, but we NEED to have this guy on our team. period. Even if he is the 2nd QB we take.
If you DO NOT WANT. then you simply are just oblivious.
by Tater596 on Oct 28, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, i'm oblivious.
Just like every NFL scout seems to be.
Yes, App St. did beat Michigan… but to say ‘he has a win over Michigan’ is a stretch. His stats in that game: 17 of 23, 227 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT… against one of the worst Michigan teams in recent memory? Color me unimpressed.
Comparing Armanti Edwards to Joe Flacco or Steve McNair is obscene. Let’s compare their senior seasons
Edwards (projected stats): 2715 yards, 13 TD, 2 INT
Flacco: 4263 yards, 23 TD, 5 INT
McNair: (no true stat page) but he amassed over 6,000 yards combined rushing and passing and 63 total touchdowns.
He’s a wildcat QB at best.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notes
how is it a stretch exactly? Michigan was ranked #5 coming into the game, you think maybe after App beat them they may have had the wind knocked out of them for the rest of the season? I would say so. Also to be over 70% passing and have 3 TDs, 2 INTs or not, is one hell of a state line. One that our current QB would be envious of. Oh and he did that behind an “overmatched” offensive line, and with “undersized” WRs. You must be a hard man to impress, James.
I can’t refute what McNair was or what Flacco is turning out to be, but to say it is obscene is again harsh. His stat line so far this year is as follows:
Games: 6
Comp/Att 130-179
Comp %: 72.6
Pa Yds: 1728
Pa TDs: 8
INTs: 1
Ru Att: 66
Ru Yds: 344
Ru TDs: 8
Noone will ever touch McNair’s senior season. It was one of the most amazing statistical seasons of all time at any level of football. But, they did not win a championship.
Regardless, Armanti’s stat line seems to be right in line with Flacco at a minimum. He is an accurate passer, smart with the football both through the air and rushing, he has scrambling abilities that can make defenders miss, and he has championship rings and big games under his belt, so you know he can play under pressure. What is not to like?
If we get him in the 7th round, we got a bargain. He is a special player.
by Tater596 on Oct 28, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
edwards
i love edwards. he’s a playmaker and a winner. i’m not sure, though, how that would translate to the NFL. People in this blog know that i loved josh johnson in college and was saying i told you so when the bucs named him the starter. he is proving that 43 TDs to 1 Int as a senior at a 1-AA school may translate to 4 TDs and 8 INTs and no wins as a pro.
by usana_gaines on Oct 28, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's all I'm saying
He is indeed a playmaker and a winner. It doesn’t matter where you come from in my opinion, NFL success is formed by coaching and effort at the NFL level. For every I-AA player that made it to the NFL and became a bust, there is an example of a guy who is thriving. The same can be said about players from the I-A level.
We can get this guy cheap, he is worth the small price involved. I have seen him play repeatedly, and no one plays harder.
by Tater596 on Oct 28, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, I'd throw a 7th at him, why not
You suggested 4th rounder first, which is way too high.
In order to be in line with Flacco’s stats he would need to throw 2,200 yards and 12 TDs in 4 games, when he’s only gotten 1,700 yards and 8 TDs in 6 games… it’s not happening. He would need to throw for 550 yards and 3 TDs per game.
I don’t think he’s undersized which is the classic knock, it’s just extremely difficult to project 1-AA QBs at the next level. Flacco and McNair are the exceptions, not the rule.
Look at Ingle Martin from Furman, same division, same competition and in his junior year had 2959 yards, 20 TD and 13 INT… he’s a third stringer lucky to be holding a job now.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap people know who the QB from AppState is!
by bleed_in_blue on Oct 28, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
welll
You have to know after they beat Michigan, and then went on to win their third straight national championship. If we talk win-loss records with QBs, we have to mention these championships.
by usana_gaines on Oct 29, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone really care about college W/L though?
When it comes to the NFL draft that is…
No NFL team drafts a QB based on their college W/L.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 29, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very true.
But if it can be reasonably believed that an incredible win % can be attributed mostly to the play of one special player, then sure it will influence it.
Sure Armanti has a huge win % and a pile of championships and awards, but he also has a very high completion %, a very low INT #, and the ability to beat you on the ground as well.
App is a very multi-dimensional team. They will use a combination of run and pass to score lots of points. However, Jerry Moore is a fairly conservative coach. Once App is up by 21 or so (after halftime), he will basically exclusively go to the ground game and usually will pull his starting QB in favor of a backup.
by Tater596 on Oct 29, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What your stats aren't considering
What are Armanti’s rushing stats compared to Flacco? What about completion%?
by dudemanhey on Oct 28, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're numbers are misleading James
You are forgetting one major thing when looking at Flacco’s stats his senior year compared to Armanti’s stats this year. Flacco played in 15 games that season since UD went on to the NC Game. Of course AE and crew lit the Blue Hens up in that game as well. If App gets to the NC game this year Edwards will play in 14 games. His projected stats would look something like this:
Rushing: 900 yards 24 TD 0 Fum
Passing: 4172 yards 20 TD 2 INT
Total: 5072 yards 44 TD 2 TO’s
So playing 1 less game, playing less than 4 quarters in almost every game, missing all of spring and fall practice due to surgery and the lawnmower accident, and he still beats out Flacco by a wide margin. You can’t dispute those numbers. Oh yeah, his numbers are going up every week as well. It is getting ridiculous…
by Waco Kid on Nov 5, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright Tater
I don’t care about size. Here is what I look for to evaluate a QB
Arm Strength: Not just chucking it 80 yards downfield, I’m talking about completing passes with zip 15-20 yards down the field. Jay Cutler is a prime example, or Elway for the old timers. Can you take off the rose tinted glasses and evaluate this for Edwards?
Accuracy: From what I’ve heard, not seen, Edwards has accuracy. Most of what I’ve heard is from you though. For our offense Edwards will need accuracy for mid to deep range passes, we don’t really utilize short passing, and it’s not hard to be accurate on those anyways.
Height: It does help to see over the O-line. ; )
Mobility: I’m not talking about Vince Young or Mike Vick mobility, I’m talking about a sixth sense for when the rush is coming, and the ability to elude it, WHILE KEEPING YOUR EYES DOWNFIELD. Roethlisberger is a perfect example. He doesn’t just have wheels, he keeps his eyes downfield, always looking for a strike. Edwards is fast, but in the NFL everyone is fast.
Pro Style Offense: This one is very important, if they don’t play in a pro style offense in college, there is no way to know if they can make NFL throws and reads.
Leadership: The ability to rally the team around you when things get tough like Delhomme and Brady can, but Romo can’t, that is invaluable. Matt McGuire, on Walterfootball.com, sums it up very well on this article
There are other ways to judge a QB, competition, stats, completion percentage, winning, but in my humble opinion, these are the ones that matter. How does Edwards stack up? In my view, he’s a wildcat specialist that I wouldn’t mind nabbing in the seventh, along with a creative OC to use him.
by Flowing Willow on Oct 29, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try my best.
Being a homer and App alum it is hard to truly evaluate a player who has done so much for your team, but let’s see what I can do.
Arm Strength- (B-) Armanti does not throw a laser, at least I have not seen him do so, but his passes never float on him. The ball gets their in expected time when he throws with feet planted. On the run, as you would expect there is a bit more arc, and a little more power gets taken off the ball, however his throws on the run are rarely off target. See the video below at the 0:29, 0:56, 1:09 marks for an example of his “quick strike” throwing power and accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prlxc1qaaLY
Accuracy- (A-) This is definately Armanti’s strong point. He is not prone to over or under throwing. He is able to hit his receivers in stride. Occasionally however, he will hit his moving target lower than you want, forcing the receiver to go down and get the ball, taking away any YAC. His accuracy on the run is ideal considering his mobility. See above video. Also see video at 3:22, where he throws on the run with enough touch to get it over a Michigan linebacker but just low enough for CoCo Hillary (a very small target) to pull it down and run with it.
Height- (D+) Armanti does not possess the prototypical QB build. However, the O-Line at App is fairly tall and he has not had problems throwing for them.
Mobility- (A-) Again, this is a strong point. Besides the ability to escape based on his speed alone, he is very good at stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield. He has only been sacked 6 times so far this season. He shows good decision making, if he decides to run he isn’t going to pull up and try to pass last second. Early in his career, he relied to much on his legs, now he has done less running and more scrambling while trying to find his receivers. at 1:09 in the above video he stays in the pocket, feels the rush coming from both sides, and delivers a strike just as it gets there for a TD.
Pro Style Offense- (C-) In his first 3 seasons, the App playbook went to a spread offense to exploit the speed of Armanti and the team as a whole. This season, the spread is still dominant, but there are far less designed runs for Armanti. Coach Moore has put the ball in his hands more as a passer. He still comes from the spread. Not ideal for the pros. He will have a learning curve.
Leadership- (A+) Armanti does not have discipline problems. App is not the same team when he is not on the field. He has played hurt many times, in fact, he is basically playing hurt all the time because he takes some punishment from his running. He is the leader of his college team without quiestion, and the most recognized name in FCS football. The coach of Georgia Southern, whom we just trounced 52-16 had this to say about Armanti: “Armanti Edwards is the best player on the FCS level. Him and Tebow are probably the two best players in all of college football. We got kicked down, and we weren’t good enough to recover." "That was probably the biggest beatdown that I’ve ever really had."
To really get a picture of how he plays, check out the Michigan video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_zeMCnlWY
It shows both good Armanti and bad Armanti, and is the toughest competition he faced as a collegiate. This reel shows more than just highlights, it shows some drives where Armanti makes key throws that aren’t necessarily TD passes. It does show a fumble, and an INT that was his fault on an overthrown ball. (7:55) The first INT (5:00) was not his fault, Dexter Jackson quit on the route. At 8:10 you can see his leadership coming into view, after throwing a bad INT that was his fault, on the next drive he rallies the team to the game winning FG. Anyway, this was him as a Sophomore. not many 2009 highlights on youtube yet, but I can assure you he has improved as a passer tremendously.
So as you can see, there is a lot of Min/Max with Armanti. Where he is good, he is VERY good. Where he lacks, he lacks severely. I’ll tell you this, should he become a Panther, he will work his butt off for the team in any capacity they wish to use him.
by Tater596 on Oct 29, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So from that analysis I'd say
We have found a Wildcat specialist. Now all we need is someone who knows how to freaking use him!!!!! Hire Dan Hennings waterboy, he probably has absorbed more from him than Davidson will ever know.
It would be nice if we could evaluate every QB that way. I smell a post coming. :)
by Flowing Willow on Nov 1, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is some footage from the 2009 Wofford game
Watch the first 4 minutes of the video at this link:
http://www.appfan.com/blog/?p=3613
You we see a few instances where Armanti throws strong passes 30-40 or more yards downfield and hits his receivers in stride in the breadbasket. He also has a couple where he is scrambling, throwing on the run across his body, all kinds of stuff where he also hits some perfect passes. This should be substantial proof that Armanti can make ALL the throws.
by Tater596 on Oct 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Armanti Edwards
I would love to see us pick up Armanti Edwards and use him the way Miami is able to use Pat White. Being an App Alum I’m very familiar with him and have witnessed first hand his bad-ass-ness. He is a dual threat QB, and his completion percentage is awesome for an exceptionally mobile QB like Edwards.
Is he an NFL starter? It would be awesome to find out with him wearing a Panthers jersey!
by dudemanhey on Oct 28, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats you asked for:
Rushing (senior season only)
Flacco: 22 yards, 4 TDs
Edwards (projected): 1478 yards, 12 TD
All purpose yards (passing and rushing) and combined touchdowns
Flacco: 4285 yards, 27 TD
Edwards: 4193 yards, 24 TD
Realistically though, combining the two skews the stats in Edwards favor. Flacco only ran the ball 64 times vs. Edwards (projected) 103 times.
Really, you’re comparing a pocket QB with a scrambling QB… apples to oranges.
But, if we’re only talking a 7th round pick… I see no harm.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
flacco's runs
When a QB downs the ball at the end of a game to run out the clock, it counts as a minus-2 yard run. So it may look like Flacco was getting a half yard per carry, but he can get 3 carries for -6 yards in one drive at the end of a game.
by usana_gaines on Oct 29, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about completion%?
I think that is the key stat in determining if a QB is (or has the potential to be ) a good passer. Did Flacco complete passes at a much higher rate than Edwards? Edwards completes better than 70% of this passes – which indicates to me that he is smart with the football and a VERY accurate passer.
Not to even mention the 4.4 speed and the killer instinct. Oh yeah, and he looks like the Predator with hair do!
by dudemanhey on Oct 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“completed better than 70% of his passes”
Yes, thus far in 2009… with 4 games less and this is uncharacteristicly above his typical 60% completion.
Comparing him to Flacco is useless, we need to be comparing him to Josh Johnson because they are similar players, both from 1-AA who were utilized similarily in college.
Senior Season
Edwards (projected): 2,715 passing yards, 1,478 rushing yards, 30 total TD, 72.6 cmp %
Johnson: 2,976 passing yards, 674 rushing yards, 44 total TD, 69.6 cmp %
Johnson in the NFL: 685 yards passing, 148 yards rushing, 4 TD, 8 INT, 50.4 cmp %, 50.9 QB rating
His game didn’t translate, and now he’s being benched.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 29, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we say for sure that his game not translating is all his fault?
Johnson’s situation in Tampa Bay is very different than what Armanti’s would be in Carolina. I definately believe that they are going to put the highly touted Josh Freeman in and he will be just as bad.
-Carolina has a far better rushing offense and offensive line in general than TB. 8 in the box makes for easy passing for an accurate QB.
-Carolina has better receivers than Tampa Bay. Smitty is far and away the superior of Antonio Bryant, the rest you can probably call a wash, however TBs rookie WR Sammy Stroughter looks promising. Kellen Winslow is an excellent receiving TE, but i would argue that we have strong pass catching TEs here in Carolina.
-The defense in Carolina is better. Leading to the ability to have a multi dimensional offense instead of the constant threat of falling behind and needing to throw constantly.
Edwards comp % in his 4 seasons:
Fr-61% So-67% Jr-64% Sr-73%
Your comparison of Edwards to Johnson is spot on however. They seem to be similar QBs. I think had Johnson landed in Carolina, he would be successful. He still might, who knows?
by Tater596 on Oct 29, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimately, I'd be very happy to spend a 7th round pick on Edwards
- He’s great PR for the team (local player).
- Gives us a new dimension on offense, should we run the wildcat more.
- Valuable depth at the position.
I just hope he’s not the only QB we would select. Honestly, this is the kind of draft where I can advocate selected 2 QBs no problem. One in rounds 2-3 (provided we don’t sign a FA like Jason Campbell) and one in round 6-7.
Make one the future and have the other as either a wildcat QB, develop some specific packages or trade him to a team in need later down the line (see the Matt Shaub trade to Houston when Atlanta turned their 5th round pick into a 2nd).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 29, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
I think this may be a 2 QB draft for us regardless. I hope we can bring in a good FA to give us something to work with immediately so we aren’t throwing a rookie into the fire. Assuming we bring in a guy like Campbell, we should address QB when the opportunity is right in the draft. Late in the draft, we should be looking at Armanti as a guy who could possibly be a QB, but also a great utility player as you said above.
It would be great to address a need a KR/PR and possiblly at WR/QB all in one pick.
by Tater596 on Oct 29, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would we have to do to move up into the first round if the draft?
I can’t think of anything we have worth a 1st round pick other than trading Stewart or DeAngelo?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Oct 28, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Getting a 1st rounder:
- DeAngelo Williams
- Jonathan Stewart
- Steve Smith
- Jordan Gross
- Jon Beason
Each would get it done, but I’ll be damned if we should trade any of them.
What could happen:
- Julius Peppers signs extension, traded
- 2010 3rd rounder, 2011 1st rounder
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wish we'd just pull the classic Panthers
Trade next years #1 for a #1 this year
by Zeus12888 on Oct 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are not going to have both DeAngelo and Stewart for their entire careers
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Oct 28, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly true...
We will have to make a decision sooner or later, it reminds me of the choice the Ravens had to make several years back between Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with Southtunnel.. maybe this is what Jake needs to get some revenge.
by tarheelfan on Oct 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Moore must not be the answer...
How could Fox not give the kid a chance? Does he really think the season is salvageable with the Saints at 6-0? We are four games back and three from the wildcard, not to mention our QB is playing terrible. I guess he has to see Delhomme play eyt another horrible game.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Oct 28, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not about winning the division anymore, Jaxon...
…I agree that the chance to win our division is lost. The Saints are 6-0. We’re 2-4. Looking ahead at our schedules, there’s no way we make that up. So what’s left to play for…?
A wildcard spot.
Sound laughable? It isn’t that far-fetched. Why? Maybe I should post an article about that tomorrow. But, as a short summary, let’s assume the following happens:
NFC East Champs = New York Giants or Philadelphia Eagles or Dallas Cowboys
NFC West Champs = Arizona Cardinals (I don’t see anyone else challenging them)
NFC North Champs = Minnesota Vikings (I don’t see anyone else challenging them)
NFC South Champs = New Orleans Saints (I don’t see anyone else challenging them)
Teams in the NFC wild card hunt:
Dallas Cowboys
Atlanta Falcons
Philadelphia Eagles
Carolina Panthers
Green Bay Packers
Chicago Bears
If you compare the remaining schedule of those last six teams, the Panthers do still have a chance to be in the hunt late in the year. What has to happen for that to “perfect storm” to occur?
First and foremost, the Panthers have to beat Arizona this weekend. Then, split with New Orleans and Atlanta. Beat Miami. Beat the New York Jets. Beat Tampa Bay. Do that and we’re suddenly 7-4 with 5 games left against some stiff competition. If Jake regains his confidence against the team that took it last year. And if the team and coaching staff finally get it together…after all, we do have a lot of new players and young rookies on the squad (especially special teams)…then by the end of the year, they have build up enough confidence and experience to start playing really well down the stretch.
If you also look ahead at our final two games (New York Giants, New Orleans Saints), both of those teams may have already locked up the playoff berths and homefield advantage. So, they might not have as much to play for toward the end of the season. That makes those games a little more playable for us.
Now, despite all of that “taking care of business” and “reversal of forture” that would have to occur for Carolina, they’d still need those other teams in the wild card hunt to pick one another off. The good news is that many of them actually are slated to play one another. So, it’s possible. Probable? I don’t know. But if I was on the coaching staff, you better believe I’d draw that up on the board for the players to consider. The season isn’t over unless they (and the fans) decide it’s over.
So, play Jake. See how he does. If he plays poorly in the very beginning, pull him and see how Matt Moore does. I recall us doing the same thing with a QB that wasn’t getting it done in the first game of 2003. And that’s where the good Jake came from…
So, let’s see what happens. Don’t close the book on the entire season just yet.
My two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Oct 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Train Wreck!
That’s a whole lotta IF-ing you are doing there… I’ve been around long enough to know that ANYTHING is possible, but also long enough to know when things don’t smell right. Every season since John Fox has been in Carolina has carried a sense of confidence, hope, anticipation… until this one. Several things happened that were EXTREMELY unusual for a team that has modeled itself on character and toughness:
1) Julius Peppers designated by Jerry Richardson as heir to Mike Rucker’s previous role as as moral team or defensive leader then holding out for a trade after the end of the season (and following the devastating loss to AZ).
2) A complete purge of the defensive coaching staff – an attempt to appease Peppers??
3) Richardson firing BOTH of his sons, one of whom helped found the Panthers.
4) Panthers playing AWFUL durnig the pre-season, breaking their previous string of undefeated pre-season games – but hey, the pre-season doesn’t count, right?
5) Delhomme repeating his devastating AZ performance the first game of this season, and threatening to do the same in nearly every game.
6) Peppers being a NO-SHOW in the Defense (I don’t care how Fox paints it) until Beason publicly calls him out for it – then Beason retracts his public humiliation of Peppers and acts like a repentant murderer.
7) Steve Smith complaining AFTER A WIN that he is “no longer an asset to the team” – not that he was wrong, but it should have at least been served with a preface of “I’m really happy for the win and imma let you finish, but…”
This team resembles Dalls more than they do the Carolina team I’ve followed unwaiveringly since their founding in 1995. In my opinion the team needs an Exorcist more than anything, maybe then they will be able to stop the slow train-wreck this season has been.
by stryderusa on Oct 28, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a few innacuracies with your recount:
1) There was never any indication Peppers wanted to be a leader. He’s always been a player who hated the spotlight. He wasn’t ‘designated’ anything by Richardson, he simply said he wanted Pep to become a leader.
2) They didn’t ‘purge’ Trgovac, he resigned. Partly because he was blamed for the Arizona loss. He wasn’t fired.
3) Unusual, yes… neccesary, yes. Richardson wanted to avoid a power vaccuum with the team should something happen with him. The front office would have exploded with the two Richardson boys in charge.
4) ‘Previous string of undefeated pre-season games’? really? We only went undefeated in 03, 04 and 06
5) ‘threatening’ to do the same is completely conjecture.
6) Beason didn’t retract what he said, he just acknowledged that he shouldn’t have said anything publicly before talking with Peppers… which is true.
7) Smith did preceed what he said by saying “The win was bittersweet” and “We get the win, but I have a limited role”. He was merely upset he couldn’t be a factor.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“He wasn’t ‘designated’ anything by Richardson, he simply said he wanted Pep to become a leader.”
Sounds like a designation to me.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Oct 28, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify
When asked by the media who he thought needed to step up as a leader he said:
“I’d like to see Julius take more of a leadership role”
It wasn’t like he went to Pep and said “Now Julius… I expect you to be a leader this year”
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds like a lawyer response...
Look, I’m normally much more accurate in presenting facts instead of possibly some conjecture in my arguments, but since (as my subject said) this season has been a train wreck I decided to treat my comments with the hand grenade approach rather than the precision of a sniper. I did this in a rush from memory on my lunch hour. The fact still remains that this season has been awful on many fronts, and the vibe that is usually present in previous seasons does NOT appear to be present this year.
The points I made are mostly valid, albeit there may be a few inaccuracies:
Point #1: Peppers sure as heck had the door opened to be a team leader by the owner. If Peppers didn’t walk through that door (his will or not) then that cannot be good for the team.
Point #2: Purge or not, they overhauled the Defensive coaching staff and system and there had to be a reason for it.
Point #3: Necessary or no, it certainly makes you question the foundation this team is sitting on, something that had never been questioned previously. Are there teams with bigger internal problems? Sure, but until now not the Panthers.
Point #4: They may not have been undefeated every pre-season, still they seemed to make a point of emphasis on winning these games. Maybe it was only the backups and hopefuls that did, but at least it inspired with a desire to win. This pre-season was full of answers like “hey, the games don’t even count”.
Point #5: By “threatening” I was implying that his string of awful INTs has continued, making you wonder (Yes, conjecture) how bad it could get – and it could have been even worse, even in his “better” games like Atlanta if defenders hadn’t dropped gift INTs.
Point #6: This is symantics… No, he didn’t retract his statement but he also back-pedeled to say he shouldn’t have spoken publicly about it. Normally I would agree 1000% with that notion, however the results I think speak for themselves in Peppers turn-around the past few games.
Point #7: I understand he was upset, and if I were him I’d be upset too. I was attempting some levity with the Kayne West reference… Still, how can you condone Smitty’s public outcry and put down Beason’s? Smith might not have mentioned anyone by name, but the choices of culprits were pretty limited.
I love the Panthers, and don’t let my friends or Panthers detractors ever challenge my loyalty to this team. However, I also hate to see them experience a slow and painful death. Nobody knows how this season will end until all the games have been played, but let’s just say that the team has not inspired much confidence thus far and they are drifting closer and closer to the black hole of change that consistent under-achievement brings.
by stryderusa on Oct 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand where you're coming from now.
I don’t clarify things to merely be pedantic, or to be an a-hole… however, one of the things that I pride ourselves in here at CSR is an accurate, (mostly) hyperbole free evaluation of the Panthers from week to week.
I like to think it’s one of the things that sets our community here apart from other blogs and sites devoted to the Panthers; that even when we disagree we have a firm foundation where we all stand to ensure we’re all on the same page. So, sometimes I will jump in and correct things where I feel facts have been overlooked, or when something is blatantly untrue (like the claims of racism by the Panthers over the last couple of weeks re: Michael Vick).
Welcome to the blog, it’s great to have you here and I appreciate what you brought to the table in his post. Please don’t take it personally, I just want to make sure our discussions don’t denigrate into vapid quips like I’ve seen on other sites; and perhaps I’m a little hard-line when it comes to facts and figures, and for that I apologize.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need to apologize...
Thanks for your fair response, and I appreciate the welcome to the blog. I do appreciate accuracy and temperance when it comes to debate usually… hard to be that way sometimes when you really love something and you’re seeing it go down hard. I am also usually more of an optimist than pessimist, but here lately I have become more of a realist than anything else, and unfortunately the reality is mostly pessimistic right now! :)
I’ve read a lot of your posts previously and appreciate the insight… keep it up, it makes us as a collective appear less foolish and breaks the stereotype of dumb southern sports fans! :P I will do my part to not appear too obtuse and hopefully contirubt something worth reading now and again, even if it may be emotional sometimes.
Have a good day and Go Panthers!
by stryderusa on Oct 28, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, I didn't even respond to some of your comments.
1. I agree, I wish Peppers wanted to be a leader. His teammates obviously look up to him (voting him as a team captain) but again, it has to do with heart.. something he sometimes lacks.
2. I’d like the think it was because Trgovac’s defense was pretty abysmal outside of 03 and 04 when he had the monster D-line, not because of Pep… but you could be right.
3. I agree, I just like to be optimistic and see it like cutting out tumors now to prevent them spreading in the future; but I see your point.
4. I agree, my most ‘wishy-washy’ aspect as a fan is saying ‘Preseason doesn’t matter’ when we lose and ‘preseason is important’ when we win. In reality, I think preseason is important. No team is the league goes the full season untouched by injury… thus, preseason is very important in identifying depth. If we reacted sooner to the loss of Kemo it could have made a difference.
5. I understand now.
6. I understand now.
7. I think it’s slightly different when you refer to a concept like ‘a team’ vs. an individual player. Smith’s complaint could be leveled at Jake, Fox, Davidson, a myriad of people. Whereas Beason directly compared Pep to Jared Allen saying ‘this guy can do it, why can’t you’. Though I agree Beason needed to kick Peppers in the ass, I think he could have done he exact same thing talking to Pep first.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 28, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the blog stryderusa
Enjoyed your comments…well put together
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
by Jaxon on Oct 29, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really have to wonder if Fox let Moore or Freely even pratice with the first team? I mean it’s wendsday and he knows for a fact that Delhomme is the best chance at a win? Because he let every QB have the same number of reps and this is the logical conclusion, or is Fox too proud to admit he was wrong about Jake.
I mean I understand that Delhomme is Fox’s greatest accomplishment (he took a career NFL Europe / NFL backup and made him a SB and PB QB that’s a big deal). And no one wants to see him end up like Warner cast off for an off season or two, only to come back better then before with someone else.
But we deserve as fans, fans who believe (James) that on any given sunday our team will win. We deserve to know that Moore and Freely really aren’t going to do any better. This early into the week I think Fox is keeping Jake in as a matter of pride, complacency, and plain stubbornness instead of truly evaluating who will give us the best chance of a win.
I don’t claim to know that Moore will do any better, or that Jake find his mojo and turn this thing around. I just want to know that Fox is doing more then just going with his gut on this. With that in mind here’s to sunday and the panthers going 3-4. Hell here’s to the panthers rolf-stomping the birds.
by bleed_in_blue on Oct 28, 2009 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
foxy's fault
so we mostly agree about what jake can and can’t do as our QB. With that said, if he’s asked to go out there and run the offense the exact same way he did last week, and his stats are the same, how much is he to blame? think about it. i’m a fairly accurate passer. but i’m short, old, can’t throw very far, and i hate to play when it’s cold or raining. so if i was asked to qb the panthers, knowing all my limitations, and i stunk it up, would you hate me? you should blame whoever put me out there cuz my leadership ability won’t help me throw the ball any faster. so we know jake’s limitations. if he’s asked to do something he can’t do, and he tries anyway because of his heart and loyalty, can we totally blame him? i mean, no one is asking reggie bush to run the ball up the middle. he can’t do it, the saints have accepted it, and that’s that. but we still ask jake to throw 25 passes a game at least 40 yards up the field into double coverage. who’s fault is that?
by usana_gaines on Oct 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you stunk it up. I would hate you.
…nah, I’d defend you to the death.
by bigdavis on Oct 30, 2009 8:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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