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Panthers’ Hump Day Prognostication

Buffalo Bills running back Fred Jackson (22) leaps over teammate Corey McIntyre (38) during overtime of an NFL football game against the New York Jets Sunday, Oct. 18, 2009, in East Rutherford, N.J. The Bills won the game 16-13. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

More photos » Kathy Willens - AP

3 months ago: Buffalo Bills running back Fred Jackson (22) leaps over teammate Corey McIntyre (38) during overtime of an NFL football game against the New York Jets Sunday, Oct. 18, 2009, in East Rutherford, N.J. The Bills won the game 16-13. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

The Panthers head into Wednesday 2-3 and on the verge of truly finding their identity for the first time this season. Sunday's game in Tampa Represented a paradigm shift, returning to the Panther tenets of running the football and playing hard nosed defense.

Our opponents this week are the 2-4 Buffalo Bills, a team with a lot of promise but unable to find their identity as a football team. On paper they have one of the best stating receiving duos in the NFL in Lee Evans and Terrell Owens, however, in reality they have failed to gel with QB Trent Edwards and the Buffalo offense has been stifled. That being said, they still have a lot of talent at multiple positions and they're not a team we can afford to sleep on this week, as the New York Jets can attest. 

Buffalo's Offense

The Bills have a major dual threat with RB Fred Jackson. Jackson leads the Bills in both rushing yards, and receptions and is often used as a very capable outlet in the passing game. Despite these abilities, he has yet to find the end zone on the ground in 2009, only scoring 1 TD on a reception. This bodes well for the Carolina run defense that seems to only have issues with RBs scoring in the red zone, and have not allowed the homerun gains on the ground. Marshawn Lynch hasn't truly returned to his form from last season after coming off a 3 game suspension, but he is still a threat, particularly in the red zone.

Star-divide

Trent Edwards is a better quarterback than his season statistics suggest. However, there is also a very good chance he will be unable to play vs. the Panthers due to a concussion. If he does start, we need to be aware that Edwards likes to utilize short passes and rarely takes deep shots downfield (much to the dismay of Owens). He will ensure our LBs and nickel backs get a true workout, but judging from the Panthers' pass defense the last couple of weeks, it should not really be a threat. He holds onto the ball far too long also, which has lead to him being sacked 19 times in 5 games. While Edwards doesn't use his feet often, when he does, he does so effectively. He's rushed for over 100 yards this season on 9.3 ypc. He gets the most of the opportunities he takes. Josh Johnson highlighted just how poorly the Panthers deal with running QBs, thus, it's an element to his game we need to be wary of.

If Ryan Fitzpatrick gets the nod then we should expect a more run based offense. He faired pretty poorly last week against the Jets, only completing 40% of his passes. He too focuses on short passes and rarely takes shots downfield.

Lee Evans is still a big time receiver in the NFL, he's just having a down year, and a lot of that can be attributed to the QB position. Chris Gamble will be charged with handling Evans, with Richard Marshall being on Terrell Owens. Owens has been vastly disappointing for the Bills in 2009, but he's one of those players who could breakout when you least expect it. Despite all the interviews, the ball signing, the locker room drama when it comes down to Sunday's T.O has the ability to be one of the best WRs in the game, and let's hope he doesn't find his legs on Sunday.

 

Buffalo's Defense

It starts with their run defense, which should be one of the stoutest in the league, but has completely failed to live up to expectation. They are 32nd in the league allowing 181 yards on the ground per game. They have a highly, highly talented LB corps of Keith Ellison, Paul Posluszny and Kawika Mitchell, coupled with run stopping DT Marcus Stroud and you can see the potential ability of their front seven, but they have failed to stop opposing RBs. Furthermore, the injury bug has bitten the Bills very, very badly in their front seven. Mitchell is out, Posluszny is probable and Ellison is questionable. All 3 LBs have been affected by injury and this bodes well for Carolina, double trouble should have a giant day, not just giant, but potentially epic... we could see a 300 yard day by them.

It will be incumbent upon the offensive line to push back the Buffalo D-line to allow Double Trouble to make the runs they need, to ensure a Carolina victory. Buffalo's defensive line includes the aforementioned Stroud and Aaron Schobel as the defensive standouts. Schobel is one of the more underrated DE in the NFL and he is extremely athletic. He should give Jordan Gross a workout on Sunday.

Where the Bills' defense is stacked is against the pass, ranked 4th in the league. Jake needs to play better, it's a simple and that... and Steve Smith needs to work harder at getting the separation he has gotten the last few years. The Bills will test our receivers, but I don't see a corner physical enough to stop Smitty from utilizing his bread and butter quick hitch play. On paper it should be horrible day for the passing offense, but I am hoping Davidson, Delhomme and the receivers get on the same page. We should also take advantage of Dante Rosario to punish the weakened Bills linebackers.

Final Prognosis

This could very easily be the week we reach .500. The Bills are battered and bruised, but also showed a lot of heart winning in OT against the resurgent Jets. We are a team who lives by the run, and dies by the run, and they will need to show up this week. On paper we have all the advantages in this matchup, however, we had all the advantages against Washington and Tampa also and the game was closer than I care to remember.

That being said, I think more of the team comes together this week in Charlotte. With a chip on their shoulder to show the hometown crowd that they can come back from their horrendous start I think they play with a vast amount of fire and emotion. Last week I called the game 28-10 Panthers, it was 28-21. So, I might not be as overly confident as last week with my prediction. I think it will be a hard fought game, but with a battered LB corps the Bills can't stop double trouble.

 

Carolina Panthers 24 - Buffalo Bills 17

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I'm going to take an even more daring line and say 27-10

Our DE’s are going to be all over Ryan Fitzpatrick all day long. He is even worse than Trent Edwards. The Bills may not score a TD on offense in fact. But I cannot rule out another Jake pick 6, or special teams TD.

by Tater596 on Oct 21, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We should steal this guy away from the Raiders to help our Special Teams.

by SlayerGhaleon on Oct 21, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So then maybe Jake won't be the only guy to lay an egg on the field?

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Oct 21, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ba-dump bump

I’ll be here all week

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha,

you guys are killing me.

by Flowing Willow on Oct 22, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

27-17 Carolina

Despite another horrible showing by Delhomme (9-20 146 yds, 1TD, 1 fmbl, 2 INTs 60.2 QB rating), the Panthers grind out another win on the backs of another great performance by the D and 100+ yard game from DeAngelo Williams.

Procto shows back up: Praises Delhomme for the 3 wins, then chastises Peppers for having great games against predictably poor opponents.

by dudemanhey on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lol...too funny

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Oct 21, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HEY

He threw for a hundred yards. ; )

by Flowing Willow on Oct 22, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Will be close

This game won’t be a blow out. Teams seem to “play down” to Buffalo’s level. Even NO didn’t pull away until late. Buffalo’s got a pair of great runners and wont’ need Fitz to beat Carolina.
I see a lot of running in this game, with passing only as needed. The final will be around 17-10.

Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!

by fansince83 on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I should add, 17-10, Buffalo.

Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!

by fansince83 on Oct 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a good thing you cleared that up

Because nobody would assume that somebody would actually believe Buffalo could win this game.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey panther fans.....

would love an outside opinion. both sides are biased….

http://www.battleredblog.com/2009/10/21/1094523/wayne-vs-johnson

You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How about

Steve Smith is better than both :P

by LittleKing on Oct 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

outside opinion

I would take Andre Johnson all day over Reggie Wayne. Reggie Wayne benefits from playing under one of the best QBs of all time in Peyton Manning. When you look at Andre’s numbers, they are made more impressive considering he has been taking passes from the likes of David Carr and Sage Rosenfels. Matt Schuab is finally healthy this year, which is why his numbers are very good so far.

Also, Wayne benefitted from being able to draw single coverage back when Marvin Harrison was the #1 dominant receiver getting the double coverage. Andre Johnson has never known anything BUT double coverage. This also leads to Andre being injured more often, because the ball is forced to him.

On top of all this, Andre has the mammoth size and great hands to be elite. Wayne is more of a speedster also with great hands, however Andre is more likely to make catches despite double coverage.

by Tater596 on Oct 21, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno

i don’t know why you’re posting this, don’t have time to read all the posts. but i have to agree with you. also remember that wayne played with great running and OL play. Manning had all day to pass the ball, and play action works miracles. Edge James last year there, he ran for over 1500 yards. Then they switched to Addai and Rhodes and kept running. Wayne is great, no doubt, but I would take Andre Johnson over him anyday. I would also take Johnson over every other receiver except Smitty. Fitzgerald won’t be as good without Boldin and Warner. Wait till next season since those idiots refuse to give Boldin more money even after Warner and Fitz both offered to take a pay cut to give Boldin a bigger check.

by usana_gaines on Oct 21, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

38-10 Panthers

Smitty gets 2 in the end zone, plus 3 by the RB’s. No contest.

by bigdavis on Oct 21, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well last time a player complained

It was Beason regarding Peppers, and we see how that turned out. If Smitty’s complaints follow suit, he could be in for a big game.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It concerns me

in my fantasy team. I have smith but don’t feel like playing him this week. Decisions decisions.

by LittleKing on Oct 22, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So do I!

And he killed me last week. It’s just hard to bench when you know his potential

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 22, 2009 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I ended up with the other Smith (NYG) after my Smith was taken… Ended up working out great… Also have had Williams dragging me down every week.. that is, until last week.

I certainly wouldn’t trust Smith as my “playmaker” however a 2nd or 3rd option might work out…. maybe….

by D-Ranged1 on Oct 22, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well last week i counted out the Bills against a supposedly strong Jets team, and this week I will have to do the same. Bills only survived the game because of Sanchez and the Jets giving up 6 turnovers, and in spite of that it was still a close game with Fitz at the helm (who looks to be starting again).

I’m not sure what to think about the Panthers (been watching them since i moved down to NC, since they wont show Bills down here!) only beating TB by 7 and having to come back to beat the Redskins, but if Jake limits his turnovers and if Williams and Stewart gets going then there should be no problems with the Bills backup D and struggling Offense.

"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage

by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sanchez was definitely doing his best Jake Delhomme impression with those INTs

by chillicothe20 on Oct 21, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A more accurate Jake impression would be him continuing that for the next 5 weeks

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two quick bits of news for you guys.

1. Trent Edwards is most definitely not going to play on Sunday. He didn’t attend or even visit the Buffalo facilities today. He’s staying home to recuperate from his concussion, so we’ll be facing Ryan this week.

2. This bit of news is for James. Sam Bradford’s season is officially over. He’s set up to have season-ending surgery on his shoulder, so chances are this will probably hurt his draft status if he decides to declare during his junior year. I know he really wants him to fall.

I hope that the Panthers just run the ball up the gut all game Heck, don’t give Jake Delhomme one bloody pass attempt. Let’s go crazy with the run this week to make that the focal point of the Cardinal’s gameplanning next week, and then have Jake Delhomme throw a deep ball to Steve Smith for a touchdown on the first play of the Cardinals game!

Woo!

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Oct 21, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All aboard the Sam Bradford bandwagon!

The shoulder surgery would mean after rehab he wont be ready for most training camps, maybe not the beginning of the season. This fits in like perfectly… I’m salivating a little thinking we could wind up with him.

For people worried about the injury, Dr. James Andrews is doing the surgery, best is the business, I wouldn’t worry too much.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Oct 21, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I don’t watch enough college football to know the who’s who but I trust in your judgement to go with it.

jumps aboard

by D-Ranged1 on Oct 21, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet he comes back for one more year

he still has a year of eligibility left. He may try and come back to improve his draft status.

by Tater596 on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'd still have to make a big trade up to get him.

It fits perfectly though! Sam Bradford falls into the middle rounds, and the Panthers trade their second rounder for this year and the 1st for next year to trade up and grab their franchise QB of the future.

I love Sam Bradford coming out of college. He’s probably the best rookie coming out of the draft besides Colt McCoy, and the best Junior coming out of the draft overall, and Tim Tebow will attract a whole lot of people but he’s still pretty raw. He uses too much of his athleticism and scrambles around too much for me to truly take his side.

If we can trade up for Bradford, and take Rusty Smith in the later rounds, we’ll be grabbing two smart guys with very strong arms. One of these guys will step up and become a franchise QB, I’m sure of it!

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Oct 21, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he has to

it’s real simple, no one is willing to draft him top 5 in april and give him $50 million guaranteed, but if he plays next year like he did last year, he’ll be the top pick.

by usana_gaines on Oct 21, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't take into account Oklahoma's o-line

Which by all accounts is going to get alot worse.

If they can’t protect him now with seniors, I dont think they will next season. That’s why I think he walks now, rather than competing with Jimmy Clausen at the top of 2011.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Oct 21, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still would rather have Colt McCoy

More atheletic and accurate. I’m not a huge of the “big arm, lacks the intangibles” kind of qbs that a particular draft guru tends to hype up (cough Mel Kiper).

by RaffyGonzo on Oct 21, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can understand that… but I’m scared of spread offense QBs. There are only 2 starting QBs currently in the NFL who came from the spread: Kyle Orton and Drew Brees and it took them both 3+ years to find their niche.

We need a QB who can come in ASAP and compete.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Oct 21, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I agree too that quarterbacks coming from the spread offense system worries me a bit. But at the same time, I’m also worried about Bradford’s shoulder and if this could turn into a reoccurring thing. With that in mind, I just think McCoy is the safer option to go with in the 2010 draft.

Now we do have realize that all of this is really a moot point in that the Panther’s currently do not have a 1st round pick in next year’s draft (traded to SF for E. Brown). So this is really all hearsay, unfortunately and neither one will not be available by the time our first pick is up.

Now all of that could change between now and when the draft starts so I will definitely be crossing my fingers for a deal concerning a high 1st round pick to be made.

by RaffyGonzo on Oct 21, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCoy could easily be available… most mocks are putting 3rd-5th round, believe it or not.

The spread hurts him a lot in the eyes of NFL scouts… see Graham Harrell.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Oct 21, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still like him.

If Colt McCoy does fall to round 3, he could be pretty useful if the Panthers can grab him. Spread offense aside, McCoy has one of the strongest arms in the draft, and he has a good head on his shoulders.

As for the Panthers not having a 1st round pick, that is what trades are for. Don’t you think that John Fox will have a fire under his ass to get a new QB for the future? Trust me, there will be a trade to get a QB of the future, unless the Panthers can pick up a quality starter through FA.

Julius Peppers can still be dealt, or John Fox can trade the 1st round pick for next year and the round 2 for this year. We’ll get into the first round somehow. This is the best QB draft for over a decade. We have to take advantage of it

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Oct 21, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt.

We’re ending up with a QB not matter what in the 2010 draft.

If Fox still has the job he’s going to have to draft one to satiate the fanbase, and if he’s gone a new coach will be looking to get a franchise QB.

I like McCoy a lot, I really do… but the spread scares me. If there weren’t so many failed spread QBs I might think differently, and it was something I used to think it was a myth, but it seems to have come true more often than not.

My short list is:
- McCoy
- Bradford
- Pike
- Hall

I would be thrilled with any of those QBs.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Oct 21, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

addendum..

QB is so deep this year I don’t necessarily think we need a 1st round pick at all to get a QB of the future. A lot is going to depend on Bradford’s draft stock post-surgery. Will he be able to throw at the combine? Will he even be able to work out for teams? Will someone take a big risk anyway based on potential and pre-injury performance?

Honestly. I think we make a move to grab a veteran free agent QB, or one of these 3rd or 4th year guys who just weren’t working out on there old teams. (i.e. Jason Campbell and Brady Quinn are likely to be let go or walk) then we spend our 2nd rounder on a guy who has a real shot at being our future long term QB if the one we get doesn’t work out.

I also am not a fan of throwing a rookie QB in the fire immediately. I think you either find a diamond (Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco) or you hurt a kids development to much to early and he never reaches his full potential (David Carr, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, possibly Mark Sanchez, Matthew Stafford)

by Tater596 on Oct 21, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

QBs

I like some of the guys with more upside, but a little more raw.

Mustain, Lefever, and Mallet are at the top of my list of value/potential. They may not all go this year, but I’m definitely intrigued.

I think Bradford, Tebow, McCoy, and Snead will al be gone by the high second round.

by the bomb dot com on Oct 22, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me jump in the QB conversation

I love Jevan Snead for us. If he comes out he could fall to our pick in the middle of the second round. If not, we might have more ammunition to trade up for him in 2011 (like a first round pick in that same year) He is a big guys, strong arm, good intangibles. His weakness is his accuracy and some mechanics from what little I’ve seen of him, college ball isn’t big in SA. I think if he learns under Delhomme for a year or so he will be a perfect fit for our system, run the ball and stretch the field deep.

by Flowing Willow on Oct 22, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't trust any Big 12 QB to be a solid pro.

The big 12 is over hyped when it comes to football. They play cupcakes in the non-conference, then beat up on each other during the conference play, then get to beat up on the even more over hyped Big 10 during bowl season.

Who was the last quality NFL QB to come from the Big 12? Somebody help me out because i can’t think of good one.

That being said….i don’t like Bradford, and i REALLY don’t like McCoy. Lately, the better QB’s have come from smaller schools less known for football. i.e., Rothlesberger, Flacco, Matt Ryan.

Snead might be the best pro option next year. I think Tebow will be a surprisingly effective pro. And Wake Forest’s Riley Skinner is an extremely accurate passer who could have the tools to be an NFL QB. The QB from BYU is also another player that i look to to become a NFL starter.

McCoy and Bradford will be NFL busts.

by dudemanhey on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCoy will bust I agree

Him and Kyle Orton are very similar. While McCoy has accuracy and timing, his mobility is overrated, he has a weak arm, and apart from a shotgun spread system where he goes to his first read or takes off he will struggle.

Bradford is a different monster altogether. While he plays in a spread offense, he does make several NFL throws. His arm strength is fine, not great, but he can make most throws. He makes good decisions most of the time, not so much under pressure. I’m a little worried about his shoulder, but I think he’ll be fine. Bradford will end up as a good QB, if he gets adequate protection.

by Flowing Willow on Oct 25, 2009 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Revshawn are you suggesting

Another 2006 Panthers vs Atlanta “Weinke” game plan? In other words just go ahead and sit Jake on the bench, bring in an extra blocker and power/wildcat DeAngelo the entire game? It worked then.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heck yeah! Why not?

These are the Bills man. The Bills! But next week we go up against the Cardinals, whose defense are just as good as any team in the NFL.

Jake is going to have to get real good, real quick. When he’s been pressured this season, he needs to react like….this guy.

Look at that. Calm and cool under pressure. Willing to get killed, I like it!

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Oct 24, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

31-20

Double Trouble have a field day.
Delhomme coughs up at least one turn-over that results in a score.
Fred Jackson finds the end zone.

by D-Ranged1 on Oct 21, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh and by the way, I support that 300yds+ motion.

I think Jackson finds 100-150 of his own(rush & reception).. While Lynch is contained to 50 or less. Fitz completes 55%.

What else can I predict to be terribly wrong? lol

by D-Ranged1 on Oct 21, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling...

this is the week it comes together. A WR gets a TD (Steve Smith). Special Teams does not give up a TD. Jake Delhomme plays without giving up a turnover(Get up off the floor; it could happen.) The Defense is dominating. Oh, and over 300 yards rushing by Williams and Stewart (3 more scores too – no fumbles).

Panthers 31 Bills 6

by DrTarheel on Oct 21, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My god.

I hope the Panthers don’t give up another special teams touchdown. That’s the last thing we need.

As if Danny Crossman doesn’t deserve to lose his job already.

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Oct 21, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got the same feeling regarding a Steve SmithTD

I think his “not an asset” comment was designed to resonate with the staff. I bet they run all over Buffalo and finally find some creative ways to get Steve the ball.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Oct 21, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

btw I'm going to game this Sunday

And I havn’t been to one in a few years. Anyone know if it’s possible to get some autographs from Steve Smith. I have so many jerseys and posters of him (obviously my favorite player).

So does anyone know a certain time that Panther players come out and do this?

by RaffyGonzo on Oct 21, 2009 6:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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