Panthers Steve Smith Punches Teammate… Again
by Jaxon on Aug 1, 2008 11:42 PM EDT
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I’ve written this post three times each time erasing it as I vacillate between anger and disgust. In case you haven’t heard Panthers WR Steve Smith was involved in what appears to be a pretty serious fistfight with CB Ken Lucas on the Panthers sideline during training camp Friday. Lucas was seen being carted off the field with a lump above his eye. No word yet how serious the injury to Lucas is but obviously we hope it isn’t serious. We also don’t know what initiated the brawl or who threw the first punch (but I would bet my next paycheck it was Smith). Apparently the fight was so intense that John Fox is considering suspensions for the instigator.
Of more concern is the impact on team unity at a time when players should be focused on football. With one punch that early team chemistry could be shattered. It would be easy to dismiss the altercation as a training camp skirmish if it happened on the field while the two were dueling head-to-head but this happened on the sideline between two players with guaranteed starting positions. Coach Fox will have to work overtime to get the team focus back on football after this one.
I for one am not surprised Steve Smith is involved. (Here’s the part I’m sure will piss off Steve Smith fans). You may recall last season when Smith gave an interview and discussed how he has matured a lot since his last clubhouse brawl and wanted to set a better example for his kids. I guess his kids weren’t around (but I’m sure there were plenty in attendance wearing #89 jerseys). All I can do is shake my head and “what a f-ing jerk”. Am I being unfair to Smith without knowing the details? Probably, but we know he is a hothead and that he has punched (and seriously hurt) a team mate in the past. You know what, I don’t care what Lucas may have said to him, you have to be man enough to say “F___ you” and walk away. I can’t tell you how pissed off I am about this and hope Smith is suspended.
Heck, forget that, trade him. Ok, so now I’m over-reacting. Am I really? If the Panthers suspend Smith for one or two games they now have spend the rest of training camp preparing to play without him. If you’re going to do that then why not just get rid of him for good. We could probably get a 1st rounder for him next season to replace the one we gave up for Jeff Otah. So you think we can’t win without him? I think we can and I think the “team” will be better off without him if he doesn’t do everything he can to repair the damage he has caused.
Steve Smith is one of the top WR in the NFL hands down and I would hate to lose his on-field production. But you know what, I was a Panther fan a long time before Steve Smith was drafted and I’ll be a fan a long time after he’s gone. If he can’t have a disagreement with a teammate without cold-cocking him then I say let him walk. The Panther organization is bigger than any one player and certainly bigger than a player with a ‘thug’ mentality.
What I hope happens is that sometime this weekend we see a sincere, heart-felt apology from Smith to the team, the fans and most importantly Ken Lucas. I also pray that Ken Lucas returns to the practice field at 100%. Only then do I think the team will be able to move on without any lingering effects. Anything less and we are going to end up talking about this for many weeks to come when we should be talking about the great season we think the Panthers are going to have.
Hat tip to The Sports Guru for breaking the news earlier today.
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I think
he already apologized to Lucas.
At least it seemed that way.
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He needs to do more than that
Here’s a link with the most detailed info so far.
http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=649
Quote: “According to several eyewitnesses, the two teammates were on the sidelines discussing a play that happened previously at camp. The talks got heated and Smith stood up and slugged Lucas, who was resting on one knee.”
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I understand that it's not a smart thing for Smith...
but trading him would be overkill.
At least in my opinion…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Smitty Altercation
The Panthers don’t need to suspend Smith, a hefty fine and a public apology to Lucas and the team is enough. Anyone who played football knows that this is common, on the field as well as on the sidelines, especially if their allowed to keep jawing at each other on the sideline. I’ve been in many fights while playing football, some even in the locker room. The coaches should of done a better job of monitoring these two, it’s common knowledge that they don’t get along while competing against each other. Why weren’t any coaches trying to calm their intensity, even though it was only words, before it became escalated to where punches were thrown. This isn’t the time to be typical Panther fans and start spewing hatred for Smith, he made a big mistake, he needs to be punished, but with the support of Panther fans. If not, I’m sure there are many teams like the Cowboys who would be willing to support him during a hard time. Smith has always gave his best on the field, that amounts to something in my book.
Fight
Ken Lucas is a punk, we shoulda traded him while he still had some value and plugged in Marshal!
Now here’s the question, was it a “fight” and ken lucas just got his butt whooped, or did steve smith just cold cock him blind out of nowhere.
If it was a fight and lucas couldn’t defend himself after talking junk then I say he got what he deserved and no penalty.
If Lucas was talking junk and SS just punched him out of nowhere, then that is a little different, but I stil say get rid of Lucas b4 you get rid of Smith!!!
Where do you get Lucas is a punk?
It would appear that though they were jawing Lucas didn’t expect Smith to take a swing at that point. I got a sense of Lucas last TC while he was signing autographs, talking to fans and he seemed pretty level headed. He does talk trash on the field and he’s no nonsense in his interviews. He’s a better tackler than Gamble but I think Gamble is the better cover guy. Marshall may be better than both but still may not get the nod.
I agree trading Smith is not the way to go at this point as expect a more formal apology at some point.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Maaaaaaan, this just sucks.
What a f-ing complicated mess we’ve got, now. It’s not nearly as simple as you’ve made it seem, Jax. Or as Steve Reed’s made it seem.
People like to say “well, this means that everything he’s done for the past five years is a lie” or something equally ridiculous. No. It’s one day. One 30-second explosion. Can you really say you’d like to be defined by one-minute windows where you lost control of your emotions? Of course, the main difference is that you and I don’t have freakish strength, even if we have the occasional outbursts of anger. But all of the good he’s done should stand alongside, hell even dwarf those few failures of self-control.
But it does complicate things, that’s for sure. He’s an elite talent. Lucas is our best coverage cornerback. We need them both. Neither guy is “a punk” or “a thug”. That’s just too simple. They’re both smart guys who play a physical game that, by its very nature, violates all rules of logic. (“You want me to run as fast as I can, leap as high into the air as I can, catch the ball, and let that 200lb guy hit me as hard as he can? No problem.”)
I just don’t know how to think about this yet. I don’t feel good about it, for sure. But I feel like there’s something missing in this story, like we don’t have the whole picture yet. But The Observer, which is a legit newspaper whose editors demand things like “proof” and “sources” before they print things, haven’t concluded that the whole “Lucas on a knee” thing is true. Steve Reed has concluded that, but he’s kind of a jerk who has said repeatedly that he doesn’t like and doesn’t trust Smith. So I don’t feel like this is anywhere near a conclusion. But I definitely wanted to jump in and try to inject a bit of calm and reason into what is an inflammatory story.
im going to come from both sides.
from one side we shouldn’t trade him. he’s is a fiery energetic tough strong emotional player. this sets him to be one of the best players in football. it also sets him up to get into scraps like these because he will get too emotional.
from the others side trading him won’t destroy our team either. hacket has shown signs of being a great reciever, muhammad we already know is a good reciever. and we have potential in jarret and i believe his name was J carter. and we definitley could get a first round pick in which we can draft a great wideout. so either way we still have a good chance at a super this year and years too come
No trade.
”...we definitley could get a first round pick in which we can draft a great wideout.”
Could not disagree more. He’s a Panther for life. Probably won’t get a statue, but he’s not going anywhere. Everybody needs to get over this trade talk. Not happening. Ever. Banish the thought.
But, even playing brain games in fantasy land, putting a high draft choice into a WR is simply foolish. My opinion is that the majority.. majority of great WRs come after the 1st round. Let’s look at the best WRs in the game today, in no particular order. I’ll make a moderately long list, just because I’m interested in seeing how this turns out. I’m only including players who are so good that they force changes in defensive gameplans, not players who are full of potential (Lee Evans) or are past their prime (Lavernues Coles).
Randy Moss – round 1
Wes Welker – undrafted
Chad Johnson – round 2
TJ Housyamamma – round 7
Braylon Edwards – round 1
Hines Ward – round 3
Andre Johnson – round 1
Reggie Wayne – round 1
Terrell Owens – round 3
Plaxico Burress – round 1
Steve Smith – round 3
Marques Colston – round 7
Larry Fitzgerald – round 1
Anquan Boldin – round 2
Tory Holt – round 1
Okay, so there’s a lot more round 1 picks than I expected, but only two of those first round picks (Moss, Wayne) came outside the top 10. So there’s a better elite-player rate with top-10 picks. But we’re talking about 8 of the 15 players who made it out of the first round.
Anyway, sorry for the digression. The point is that drafting a WR to replace someone you know is a top-5 players isn’t anything close to a good idea. For every Larry Fitzgerald, there’s a dozen Troy Williamsons. Bad idea, even in fantasy land.
by r3 on Aug 2, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
totally agree
but it is still fun to speculate on different possibilities of what could happen. i always think there is at least a .01 percent chance of anything to happen so that means their is a chance that he is traded even though it is a very very small chance. I myself don’t think what he did was worth a trade all he did was let his emotions get the best of him, but if it happens again anytime soon then thats a different story. so thinking of trading him now is just about out of the question but you never know what is going to happen. Stranger things have happened in the nfl
2 game ban is ample
He’s a hot head, a bit of an idiot at times, but he knows it. He said sorry almost straight away. From that photo it doesn’t look like Lucas was impressed with the apology at the time, but nor should he be!
Sadly its this passion that makes him great, take it away he’s a good player, with it he’s one of the true greats.
Under NO circumstances should he be traded for this. What would you get for him? A first rounder maybe? How many Steve Smiths get drafted each year? Players like him come around once a decade. 99.9% chance that you would lose out massively in any trade.
Make him apologise in the most public way, fine him some big amount, talk to him about why you can’t go around doing that again and get him to talk to Lucas and sort out any differences. DO NOT GET RID OF HIM!
by what iv'e heard so far listening to espn about it
the panthers know that steve smith is a huge part of this offense and it sounds like they are hoping that in some way they don’t have to suspend him at all.
I wouldn’t suspend him and here’s why. I know he already knows he needs to control his anger from the bright incident so he knows already what he did was wrong. people punch and hit and jaw at eachother all the time the only reason this story was blown up was they didn’t have their helmets on practicing they were on the sidelines watching.
my idea for this is just have smith go and talk to lucas and sort things out and thats done. whatever the panthers end up doing with this they need to do it in a quick and discrete way to get their focus back to football just like jake delhomme says here
“I don’t anticipate this having any lingering effect on this team,” Delhomme said. “We were talked to and things were squashed. That’s it. That’s the way it is. It happened. There will be no retaliation by anybody on anything. When you look at the schedule we don’t play the Panthers this year. So we need to be smart when we’re out there.”
back with avengence!
You are definitely overeacting! Win without him? We would not have gone to the Superbowl without Smitty. Remember his triple overtime touchdown in the playoff game against St Louis? Remember 2005 NFC Championship? Think we would have even made the playoffs without Smith leading the league in receiving yards and touchdowns?
He might not be the best mentor or locker room guy… but he wins football games! Let Beason and Muhammad be the locker room guys… Smitty’s job is to bring that hot-headed competitive edge! And you can’t have that without an occasional out break. At least he acknowledges the problem, and takes steps to control it. Most hot-headed players never learn. But like the other incidents Smith knows he screwed up and will make steps to continue to change. That in itself is a great lesson for kids… because when they screw up, they need to have the same ‘pull myself up again’ attitude.
Suspend him for a couple games so that he and the team know this is unnaceptable. Then let Muhammad and Hackett have a chance to shine and stabilize our offense. Then once we have established a solid pasing game… bring in your deadliest weapon! Cornerbacks beware… Smitty’s back with avengence!
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Nah
He did something stupid true. But trading him when he’s good for the team. He’s not a cancer to the locker room, and yes this will take time to blow over for the team but hell he’ll go out now on the field after the suspension and blow everyone out of the water on sheer need to prove that he’s still important. Especially, if the team wins without him.
Too much
I think the suspension is too much. I know he’s done it before… but it’s been 6 years. It’s not like it’s an yearly issue.
I think a fine (2 or so games worth) and requiring a public apology (especially to Lucas, who has a broken nose now) before he could practice with the team would’ve been enough.
Trading him would be a highly stupid decision, and something just done in the spurt of the moment. Unnecessary.
While I’m not blaming Lucas, something had to happen to cause this. I mean, I’m fairly certain Smith wasn’t thinking “oh look, I haven’t punched a teammate in 6 years, let’s go punch Lucas”. Something had to happen to cause it. Smith deserves a fine, yes (he punched a guy). But why did he? Something happened to cause it…
The Utah Jazz. The Jazz... duh.
The best NBA team in Utah... no doubts about it!
Playing For Pride. Pirates, Utes, Panthers, and more...
Because, in the end, only one team can "win it all".
Wow. So many things wrong with this post.
1. When trading someone, it’s best to do it when their value is at, or near, its peak. Needless to say, this is not a peak in Steve Smith’s career.
2. If the idea of teammates (in a particularly violent sport) coming to blows during a South Carolina training camp in late July/ early August completely blows your mind, I believe that following football may not be the best hobby for you. Not everyone who throws a punch or gets into a shouting match is a “thug.”
3. In those pictures posted (thanks r3!), Smith cooled off, realized his error, and tried to apologize. Sure, not punching someone is better than apologizing for doing it, but give the man a break. The team has handlee this internally, and handed down stiff punishment. He made a mistake and everyone will move on. He electrocuted a grand total of zero puppies, didn’t kill anyone while driving drunk, and wasn’t found hiding in the trunk of a car trying to escape a murder charge.
Zinedine Zidane headbutted a guy who called his sister a whore during one of the highest profile (and last) matches of his illustrious career. Zidane is not a psycho. He is not a “thug.” He is (was) a competitor who takes what he does for a living very seriously.
The silver lining, to me, is that both of these guys gave a damn, and weren’t dogging it in camp- no one can doubt the level of their intensity or commitment to beating the guy across from them every play, practice or regular season.
by the bomb dot com on Aug 3, 2008 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
edit:
That came across a little harsh. Jaxon, I in no way meant that to doubt your fanhood or support of the Panthers. My post was rushed, and I apologize if I came across as asinine or vitriolic.
And my first point reads as utter garbage. I meant trades should be made when value can be maximized instead of undermined (which I see in this case).
I understand and respect other people’s perspectives on this matter, and realize the irony of the situation in regards to these posts.
by the bomb dot com on Aug 4, 2008 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
No offense taken
The term ‘thug’ was probably a little harsh on my end as well. I used that term because it appears to me that though the two were jawing I doubt Lucas was expecting the punch. If this happened in the locker room its different to me but when it happens in front of all those kids wearing his jersey I have to question his maturity.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Well if memory servers me correctly
the last time he punched a guy at TC he went on to have some really good years. It sucks that it was Ken Lucas and that it happened but if he goes off like he did last time then all will be forgave and forgotten
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