Fox Needs to Eat a Slice of Humble Pie
by Jaxon on Nov 13, 2007 9:15 PM EST
in Panther News
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PrintI commented yesterday on John Fox’ Monday interview where he was defending the play calling. Well apparently there were more comments later in the interview that have me...well...just read for your self:
"I'd remind all our fans that in only one of those six (home losses) did our starting quarterback play," Fox said. "I think that's not an excuse, it's reality. We deal in reality. Of those six games, your starting quarterback is only in one of them. Sometimes that's not ideal."
Fox also disputed his label as a conservative coach. While Fox acknowledged the number of times he's gone for it on fourth down in his six years in Carolina could be "counted on one hand," he's tired of being criticized for his style.
"We've won some games around here. I think it's been effective," Fox said. "I'm not ashamed of the games we've won here or our record here."
Let’s see ...where to start. So the fans that are booing are not dealing with reality? Did they buy their tickets with real money? Coach, did you get paid with real or hypothetical money?
So with Jake Delhomme out for the season we should expect nothing but losses? Would Jake have handed the ball off to D-Will on the 3rd & long that much better than Vinny Testaverde? Would Jake have prevented the 23 yard punt return or Crumplers’ 30 yard game winning TD?
Don’t piss down my back and tell me its raining!
If my memory serves me right the Redskins won a SB with Doug Williams at QB, Tampa Bay with Trent Dilfer and Baltimore with ...ummm...ok that’s wrong but you get my point.
So you don’t like being called a "conservative" coach. What would be a better word? "Realistic"? If that’s the case then we should just start punting on 3rd down given our 30% completion percentage. At least then we’d have a chance of covering the damn return.
So you think we should give you a pass this season because of your past record? Sorry coach, we did that already...LAST SEASON! The Truth is even with Jake starting at QB this team is still an 8-8 team. Without him we’re 6-10. Either way we’re probably out of the playoffs. Marty Schottenheimer got canned in San Diego last season after going a dreadful 13-3!
Speaking of last season, let’s recap what we knew about this team leading up to the April 2007 draft, what moves Fox and GM Marty Hurney made to address these issues and the results.
• We knew we had no depth behind Jake so we brought in David Carr to solve that problem. Oops, missed on that one so bad we’re starting 43 yr old Vinny T. If not for that move we may have been inclined to land QB’s Brady Quinn, Drew Stanton or even in the3rd round Trent Edwards. Naahh, who needs a QB?
• We knew we needed another WR even WITH Keyshawn Johnson on the team. So we drafted the sliding Dwayne Jarrett and dumped Key. How did that one work out Coach?
• We knew we couldn’t run the ball but that was because of injuries to the o-line. All we needed was for them to get healthy so we could...be...no better than last year.
• We knew we needed depth at Safety so we brought in three journeymen to plug the hole. Err...the ship is still sinking.
• We knew we couldn’t convert on 3rd down so it had to be the OC’s fault. Out with Dan Henning and in with Jeff Davidson. Jeff Davidson is such a breath of fresh, offensive air. Key word = offensive.
• We knew all our pass rush needed was for Mike Rucker to get healthy, no need to rush more than four guys. Heck, let’s just drop Peppers into coverage.
• We knew our special teams were the worst in the league under new ST coach Danny Crossman but all we needed was a new return guy. But we’re much closer to next to last this season.
• The one and only thing they got right was drafting Jon Beason to fill the certain void left by Dan Morgan.
Wow, one out of seven isn’t bad. I am so sorry for being critical coach. You’re not conservative; you’re just an optimist who is surrounded by ungrateful fans. How dare they boo you? You lost your starting QB. Don’t worry coach just keep up that attitude and you won’t hear the boos any more. There won’t be anyone in the stadium to watch your latest fiasco.
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my turn
I think Fox said what he said because he knows he's not getting it done. If you look at Cleveland's offense for the past three years, you'll see Davidson's body of work and why we signed him. (NOTE: The Browns offense sucked every year)
I think Jarrett will prove to be a good #2 receiver in time. He would have been a solid #3 in the second half of the season with Key still #2, but Fox understood that we have no room for a guy who is a great blocker and only caught 70 passes for over 800 yds last season.
I think you can't blame Fox for thinking a healthy O-line would have helped, especially with the implementation of zone blocking which better fits Foster and Williams running style. Considering our injuries and picking up Kalil, I think he had the right idea about the O-line. However, he doesn't get a bye on this one either. If the QBs would throw the ball downfield every now and then, we wouldn't have guys stacked in the box to stop the run when we run a draw on 3rd and 12. Then again, if the guy who gets 5.0 yards a carry would get the ball more often than the 3.8 yards a carry guy, we could actually spend less time running plays from 3rd and long. I want a fearless QB in there and I don't care if he makes some mistakes, just mix it in with some big plays and we'll be okay.
The defense is playing better and we got the safety position almost right (they're good enough for 8-8, but not great), and the LBs are looking good. We need more sacks, though, a lot more. Our defense is pretty good, but they need to be great for us to get some wins. They made some mistakes against Atlanta, but when the Falcons score 20, and our defense gets 7, is it too much to ask the offense to score two TDs in 60 minutes for a win?
The bottom line is we have a lot of talent that isn't motivated or being used correctly, and that's on the coach. He has to go.
I'm starting to think
that Marty Hurney should go first. I might be inclined to keep Fox another year if we get a new GM, someone who has a track record of evaluating talent.
Great article
Jaxon, your last several articles have been on target. You are asking the tough questions and raising issues that need to be addressed. Charlsong has also added a lot of insightful comments. Enjoy reading what both of you write -- good solid stuff.
I came to this website, and the Panthers in general, because I thought David Carr got a raw deal in Houston, and I wanted to see him get a fresh start. So far, he has been a big disappointment. Which is a great puzzle. He had some great games in Houston and showed a lot of potential with a stronger supporting cast. I cannot understand why he has not seized this opportunity to repair his damaged image. He is not playing here as well as he did in Houston.
I will never be a Texans fan again, because regardless of Carr's future, they destroyed any chance he had to be a success (no O-line, no running game, no second top receiver), and unfairly set him up as a scapegoat for all the team's failures. There's a good chance the Texans may not match their 2006 record.
At this time, I would not be surprised to see Carr announce his retirement after this season or sometime next year. That can certainly be inferred from some of his recent comments. Why not? He's got a life outside of football. He has a nice supportive family and has no obsessive need for public acclaim. He's still healthy, mentally and physically. David, take the money and run.
by A J on Nov 14, 2007 11:17 AM EST reply actions
Prediction for GB gsme
Left this off my post: my prediction for the GB game is Green Bay 35-0, regardless of who is QB. The Panther losses are team efforts, not solely a QB problem.
And a note to Steve Smith: Shut up, and catch the ball!
by A J on Nov 14, 2007 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
david carr
Thanks for the compliments. You have helped replace my optimism with reality, though, and the reality is that we want Panthers wins more than some of the players do.
David Carr has the talent and ability to be great anywhere, but he's damaged goods. I think he knows it. He comes here to get a fresh start, and look what happens. I think he should retire. He has a severe back injury that I think (based on a hunch and no sience) he will feel for the rest of his life. He's also had two concussions. The money isn't worth it. However, I think he could still be a quality back-up, and maybe re-emerge in his 15th year like Rich Gannon. If I was him, though, I would retire.
You said the Texans destroyed any chance he had to be a success (no O-line, no running game, no second top receiver), and unfairly set him up as a scapegoat for all the team's failures. There's a good chance the Texans may not match their 2006 record. That is 100% accurate of the 2007 Carolina Panthers.
by usana_gaines on Nov 14, 2007 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Not "finah in Carolina"
Your last paragraph nailed it for Carolina too. I didn't think about it as I was writing, but you are exactly right. Carr has found the same circumstances here as he thought he had left in Houston.
The French saying has it about right: "Le plus ca change le plus ca reste le meme". The more things change, the more they stay the same.
The only slight exception I would take to your comment is that David-as-scapegoat is not as universal here as it became in Houston. Probably only because he has played so little, and despite that having played a role in half the Panthers' wins. The fans in Houston are slowly beginning to realize that David was not the major part of their problem. It is much deeper and more pervasive than that. To their credit, I believe the fans here in Carolina, at least the rational ones, already know that.
by A J on Nov 14, 2007 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
i agree
I agree, and I want to add to that. I think Carolina fans don't put the blame on him because we know we were 8-8 the year before with the same guys and our starting QB and #1 receiver played together in 12 of those games. I think we were 8-4 in those games, having lost the first two when Smith was hurt, and two with Weinke at the helm. So we didn't expect Carr to be our savior, we thought we had the talent already to go to the playoffs. Apparently we were wrong.
I decided to take a look at our success when Smith and Delhomme both started. I think we were 11-5 in the NFC Championship season and 8-4 last year with both players healthy. This year, we were 2-1 when both players started. That's 21-10, which may be good enough to JR to keep Fox around another year.
by usana_gaines on Nov 14, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
peppers and the money
I say it could get ugly because Fox and Hurney will be gone. Hurney drafted a bunch of guys who aren't helping (LeFors, Shelton, etc.) and Fox let Will Witherspoon, Moose, McCree, and Daniel Manning go. By the way, did you see that great catch and run by Michael Gaines for the Bills? So who will be running the negotiations for Peppers anyway?
The more I dig into it
the more I'm convinced Marty Hurney has to go for sure. I did not see Gaines catch but per the Panthers he couldn't catch. He could only block. I like Jeff King as a receiver but I have seen him blow some blocks. One to Darnell Docket comes to mind (though Dockett is a stud). We could use Gaines in the running game I believe.
My last poll
The poll I included in my previous post has the craziest results I've ever seen. Panther fans are all over the board on their opinion of Fox and what he needs to do to keep his job. That will probably work to his favor.
Fox and the chickens
"He should keep his job regardless of how the Panthers finish"
This is the one that blows my mind! Currently getting 30%, the leading choice.
Apparently these fans don't care whether they win or lose, just so they keep Fox. There are probably more subtle interpretations than that, but it looks like time for a change. There are some deep problems with this team which need more than tinkering or cosmetic changes. A new no-nonsense coach is needed to clean the henhouse, not guard it.
by A J on Nov 14, 2007 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I love the analogy
You know, I stuck that option in there thinking no one would say "He keeps his job regardless..." I can't fathom it. Maybe JR should pull a Steinbrenner and offer to re-up Fox for half his salary since he wins half his games.
the fox
I still think we have one of the most talented teams in football. I can name players and you will be hard pressed to name many guys who are more talented, like Carr, Gamble, Peppers, Jenkins, Morgan, Davis, Gross, Smith, etc. However, none of these guys is playing to their potential or talent level. Some have had multiple injuries and multiple mental errors during crucial parts of the game. Some seem to barely even show up despite physically being on the field. That is where a guy like Cowher comes in, someone who has the ability to get the most out of his players, and turn underachievers into overachievers. You cannot tell me the Packers have more talent than we do, but guess which team has the best record in the NFC. Not us.
Coaching and teaching also go hand in hand, and it's the coaches job to get the rookies ready well before week 8. Williams, Jarrett, Kalil and Charles Johnson should be starting, but their not. Why not? Is it because of the All-Pro level of play from Foster, Colbert, Bridges, and Rucker? I think not. Get someone in there who can teach Monday to Saturday and motivate and encourage on Sunday. Fox and the boys are not getting it done.
by usana_gaines on Nov 15, 2007 5:40 AM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see the rooks more too
Let's put Johnson in there instead of Peppers on a few series and see what happens. Kalil too instead of Hartwig.
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